Sean Bean heads cast for HBO's A Game of Thrones


Television

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MMCJawa wrote:
Dany's turn seems like something that will/would happen in the books, the difference being that the books would give a much slower build up, rather than what we got here. Here it seems less organic and more the showrunners going Well...time to check this box.

Her callousness always been in the show in some form or another.

When her brother died ("He was no dragon"). When she had Mossador (the slave leader in Meereen) executed. When she fed the nobles of Meereen to her dragons. When she burned all the Khals. When she burned the Tarlys.

What happened in the latest episode is just the culmination of all of it.


TriOmegaZero wrote:

Are you 'anyone that thought X'? If not, then no. He didn't speak to you, he spoke to a specific group, so no assumption was made about your expectations.

If the shoe fits, wear it. Otherwise, kick it to the curb.

So, you're saying that I shouldn't say it doesn't fit?


Yeah, I will side with Fumarole on that one. Her descent has been well established. The final part of it has been a bit swift, but it isn't a surprise at all.

If they had written it better, there should have been more political infighting in Ep 1 and 2, between her and the Northerners. Not just a couple bitter words, but something with actual consequences. Also, at some point her rejecting or pulling away from Jon would have made this whole thing make more "sense" as well, or at least feel natural.

Grand Lodge

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Irontruth wrote:
So, you're saying that I shouldn't say it doesn't fit?

Well you can, but it seems unnecessary.

From what I've heard, Fumarole is spot on about her. It's just getting rushed because they are being told to wrap this s+!$ up.

Scarab Sages

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TriOmegaZero wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
So, you're saying that I shouldn't say it doesn't fit?

Well you can, but it seems unnecessary.

From what I've heard, Fumarole is spot on about her. It's just getting rushed because they are being told to wrap this s&$# up.

Hot Take: Season 7 was greenlit 6 months before the ATT buyout was announced. The shortened seasons 7&8 and fast tracked story are from on-high from ATT, as production costs they didn't want to inherit this past year. ATT has already shown since the finalization of the merger that they're wanting to move away from the high cost prestige sphere into more casual viewing originals for HBO, and ending the Game as soon as they took over was step one of ATT, third of its name, Breaker of DirecTV, Khaleesi of the 5GE, Queen of the Cingulars and of the Centennials and of the Qualcomms, Mother of Arbitration Clauses.


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All of this could have been done within their time constraints. They also could have saved a lot of money by cutting the number of shots of peasants dying by half. After the first 5 minutes of that, I had a pretty good idea of what was happening.

The problem is that we don't get interesting plot development, we get stupid jokes about what it's like to have sex with taller women.

Instead of presaging Dany's descent by having her execute someone for a crime while in Winterfell, we get 3 different arguments about having to go into the crypts.

The problem isn't the lack of episodes or run time, it's that what screen time they do have they are managing poorly.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
It sounds like my decision to wait for the series to be complete was a fortuitous one.

I wonder... if the books do get finished... how long will it be until we get a remake of the series?


archmagi1 wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
Irontruth wrote:
So, you're saying that I shouldn't say it doesn't fit?

Well you can, but it seems unnecessary.

From what I've heard, Fumarole is spot on about her. It's just getting rushed because they are being told to wrap this s&$# up.

Hot Take: Season 7 was greenlit 6 months before the ATT buyout was announced. The shortened seasons 7&8 and fast tracked story are from on-high from ATT, as production costs they didn't want to inherit this past year. ATT has already shown since the finalization of the merger that they're wanting to move away from the high cost prestige sphere into more casual viewing originals for HBO, and ending the Game as soon as they took over was step one of ATT, third of its name, Breaker of DirecTV, Khaleesi of the 5GE, Queen of the Cingulars and of the Centennials and of the Qualcomms, Mother of Arbitration Clauses.

GoT is there number one show...rumors I have heard say that HBO was down for a full 10 seasons of the show. However it's doubtful the showrunners and cast would have gone along with it.

Silver Crusade

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Irontruth wrote:
TriOmegaZero wrote:
It sounds like my decision to wait for the series to be complete was a fortuitous one.
I wonder... if the books do get finished... how long will it be until we get a remake of the series?

Game of Thrones: Brotherhood

Scarab Sages

MMCJawa wrote:
GoT is there number one show...rumors I have heard say that HBO was down for a full 10 seasons of the show. However it's doubtful the showrunners and cast would have gone along with it.

Pre ATT HBO definitely was. The shock three years ago when they said "Oh yeah, 13 hours left, tops" was so out of left field. Then, conveniently, half a year later here comes ATT with the final terms of the negotiated buyout. I just think, much like The New Mutants fell to the Fox to Disney acquisition, Season 9 and maybe 10 fell to the ATT buyout. D&D were given carte blanche to get it finished on HBO's terms, and they streamlined and chopped it down to something they could reasonably manage in the 18 months prior to the takeover.

Now, we're looking at *maybe* 1 successor show making it to screen on HBO, perhaps another eventually online only for ATT & DirectTV customers. They're not going to be throwing LOTR on Amazon money at it, but probably VEEP money (at best). ATT has been pretty upfront about getting MOAR CONTENT that they can monetize out of their Warner Media properties, HBO in particular. That means putting out more, but cheaper, shows; stuff that they can turn around seasons fast enough to keep subscribers, not 14 month production time genre epics that they can only air every other year.


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I would still argue that the merger has nothing to do with this, and given the vast sums of money getting thrown to create streaming content, ATT was unlikely to go "oof...too expensive"

New Mutants is almost certainly a consequence over concerns it was going to be a flop more than anything else.

The downside of pumping out more content with less quality is that no one will subscribe. Streaming services are full of garbage...no one signs up for that, they sign up for the prestige shows. There is a reason that Disney+ is coming out of the gate with The Mandalorian, not 10 c-list Marvel character shows that have nothing to do with the MCU.

Dark Archive

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archmagi1 wrote:
Hot Take: Season 7 was greenlit 6 months before the ATT buyout was announced. The shortened seasons 7&8 and fast tracked story are from on-high from ATT, as production costs they didn't want to inherit this past year. ATT has already shown since the finalization of the merger that they're wanting to move away from the high cost prestige sphere into more casual viewing originals for HBO, and ending the Game as soon as they took over was step one of ATT, third of its name, Breaker of DirecTV, Khaleesi of the 5GE, Queen of the Cingulars and of the Centennials and of the Qualcomms, Mother of Arbitration Clauses.

-

AT&T, still marginally better than House Time Warner, who’s House words are ever,

“We do not Customer Service”


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baron arem heshvaun wrote:


-

AT&T, still marginally better than House Time Warner, who’s House words are ever,

“We do not Customer Service”

The only not believable part about that is you got them to say that much

Dark Archive

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Pre Snap George R R Martin

Dark Archive

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Varys was trying to poison Daenerys, that’s why he was executed.

(Speculation but helps my on show logic.)


Counter (added?) speculation, Tyrion and Daenerys don't know that he was trying to poison her. He covered his tracks by writing letters AND talking to Jon when he arrived on the island. Tryion witnessed him talking to Jon, and I think all he reported was that conversation. Remember, he also cleared Jon by noting that Jon rejected Varys' offer.

So, I'm agreeing with the speculation that Varys was trying to poison her, but that specific plot has not be discovered yet.


Yeah it was obvious he was trying to poison her, but I would agree with Irontruth that I am not sure anyone realized that

Varys out and out told to people that they should drop Daenerys and support Jon, both of which were still obviously loyal to her.


I was trying to think of the significance of the rings, perhaps one has a poison similar to what Olenna Tyrell used.

Scarab Sages

Irontruth wrote:
I was trying to think of the significance of the rings, perhaps one has a poison similar to what Olenna Tyrell used.

The best I've seen is he was leaving the rings for the server girl he was using.


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It would be interesting if the server girl actually succeeded in poisoning Daenerys after Varys was executed -- but of course that would be too pat a solution to a problem that needs to be dealt with by the main characters.

To me, the main mystery of the next episode is whether Tyrion can stay far enough away from Daenerys until she is dealt with, as she has pretty much told him that he will be the next associate that she executes.

Dark Archive

I feel like there are a lot of things up in the air yet to be resolved, that might never be, including the possible poisoning attempt by Varys, or whether or not the green explosions of wildfire during Drogon's strafing run where indicators that Cersei planned on burning the city rather than let it be take anyway (which would make Dany, especially if she somehow knew that, marginally less of a cackling supervillain, since Cersei was going to Sept-of-Baelon everyone in the city anyway...).

I kind of wanted Arya to use her quiffy-faceless-man powers to take the form of Joffrey and confront Cersei. Her turning away from her quest for vengeance was an interesting moment of growth. And yet, she made that list as a kind of promise to the god of death, and I'm not entirely sure that walking away from that should be entirely free of consequences...

If I had to pick a strange sort of quibble, it's that Sansa has been handed another, IMO, undeserved, bit of prescience. I remember at the battle of the bastards, she acted all smug about saving Jon's bacon, when it was *Littlefinger* she was counting on to not leave her in the lurch and to provide the promised troops, making it entirely a crap-shoot whether or not she was going to end up looking the fool (and end up being handed over to Ramsay *again* by Littlefinger's machinations...), or the savior.

Too often, it seems like people (and not just Sansa) are being handed their victories, and coming away with the wrong lessons about their infallible judgment as a result.

It's probably just me, but the more sure of themselves the characters seem, the less I agree with them, while the more hesitant and doubting they seem, the more I identify with that. The ones who seem the most confident seem to be nutters. :)


Sansa has become Littlefinger 2.0 with her making sure The North stays independent while The South is in chaos. She wouldn't want the throne, imo, since she has an excellent power base up North.

I suspect that if Littlefinger had abandoned her, that she would have had Brienne take her head or swallowed poison.

Which would be darkly amusing that Ramsey would have to deal with the Dead when they breached the wall(Undead giants bust through Wall doors)

As for the rings, it does sound plausible that they are a gift for the servant girl. The note burning is no doubt reflex even if he knows his number is up.


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One interesting idea would be based on the following understanding of the current situation: Daenerys is too dangerous to be allowed to live, but her Dothraki and Unsullied are too dangerous to be left leaderless in Westeros. So Jon will be agonizing about what to do, as action and inaction are equally dangerous.

This is where Arya steps in. She suggests that they pay Daenerys a visit and that she has a plan for dealing with the situation (a solution that she is very reluctant to implement -- but for the safety of her family and the rest of Westeros, she may have to do it). Jon meets with Daenerys, and things turn sour quickly. Jon and Arya are forced to kill Daenerys and whoever is guarding her in self defense.

As Jon looks down in horror at the corpse of Daenerys, uncertain how to deal with the now leaderless Dothraki and Unsullied, Arya takes on the appearance of Daenerys -- possibly permanently.


Arya starts flensing the face

John: "I loved her you know..."

Arya: " Ewww... now you've made it all creepy" *saw saw saw saw*


I think Varys was trying to poison Danny but he was executed for the suddem rumor of R+L=J cropping up all over.

Dark Archive

I wonder if this scene by the showrunners will make it to the Season 8 DVD.

Deathstarys!!!


David knott 242 wrote:

One interesting idea would be based on the following understanding of the current situation: Daenerys is too dangerous to be allowed to live, but her Dothraki and Unsullied are too dangerous to be left leaderless in Westeros. So Jon will be agonizing about what to do, as action and inaction are equally dangerous.

This is where Arya steps in. She suggests that they pay Daenerys a visit and that she has a plan for dealing with the situation (a solution that she is very reluctant to implement -- but for the safety of her family and the rest of Westeros, she may have to do it). Jon meets with Daenerys, and things turn sour quickly. Jon and Arya are forced to kill Daenerys and whoever is guarding her in self defense.

As Jon looks down in horror at the corpse of Daenerys, uncertain how to deal with the now leaderless Dothraki and Unsullied, Arya takes on the appearance of Daenerys -- possibly permanently.

Alternatively Bran wargs Drogon and roasts Danaerys' forces, or convinces them to serve Jon.


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David knott 242 wrote:

It would be interesting if the server girl actually succeeded in poisoning Daenerys after Varys was executed -- but of course that would be too pat a solution to a problem that needs to be dealt with by the main characters.

To me, the main mystery of the next episode is whether Tyrion can stay far enough away from Daenerys until she is dealt with, as she has pretty much told him that he will be the next associate that she executes.

The servant girl isn't the danger.

If Varys left the rings (with hidden poison) and a note to Tyrion, that now becomes the danger.

"Dear Tyrion,
Please use these rings to help Daenerys celebrate her victory, just like Joffrey celebrated his wedding.
Yours in the afterlife,
Varys

PS: I told you so."


baron arem heshvaun wrote:

I wonder if this scene by the showrunners will make it to the Season 8 DVD.

Deathstarys!!!

Q: What did you get?

A: Cleganebowl
Q: What did it cost?


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MMCJawa wrote:
David knott 242 wrote:

One interesting idea would be based on the following understanding of the current situation: Daenerys is too dangerous to be allowed to live, but her Dothraki and Unsullied are too dangerous to be left leaderless in Westeros. So Jon will be agonizing about what to do, as action and inaction are equally dangerous.

This is where Arya steps in. She suggests that they pay Daenerys a visit and that she has a plan for dealing with the situation (a solution that she is very reluctant to implement -- but for the safety of her family and the rest of Westeros, she may have to do it). Jon meets with Daenerys, and things turn sour quickly. Jon and Arya are forced to kill Daenerys and whoever is guarding her in self defense.

As Jon looks down in horror at the corpse of Daenerys, uncertain how to deal with the now leaderless Dothraki and Unsullied, Arya takes on the appearance of Daenerys -- possibly permanently.

Alternatively Bran wargs Drogon and roasts Danaerys' forces, or convinces them to serve Jon.

Probably not, since Bran is back in Winterfell.

But I could see Daenerys facing down Jon when Drogon arrives. She shouts "Dracarys!" and Drogon then -- does absolutely nothing.

Dark Archive

David knott 242 wrote:
But I could see Daenerys facing down Jon when Drogon arrives. She shouts "Dracarys!" and Drogon then -- does absolutely nothing.

Drogon's been the dragon with the most 'attitude' of the three, and even then, has been a giant burning-people-to-death doormat to Dany this entire time.

It would certainly shake things up to find out that he had *opinions* of his own, and they weren't 100% in line with Danys. (or Jon's, for that matter)

I thought it was interesting that Tyrion had kinda/sorta bonded with the other two dragons, when he freed them in Mireen, but they're dead, so nothing seems to be coming of that, unless they dragons chatted about it with Drogon after the fact, and Drogon might balk at an order to flambe Tyrion... (which he seems likely to get in this next and final episode)


Book john burned his fingers pretty bad fighting the first wights at castle black. Unless of course you need to level up in being a targaryn...


archmagi1 wrote:
Hot Take: Season 7 was greenlit 6 months before the ATT buyout was announced. The shortened seasons 7&8 and fast tracked story are from on-high from ATT, as production costs they didn't want to inherit this past year. ATT has already shown since the finalization of the merger that they're wanting to move away from the high cost prestige sphere into more casual viewing originals for HBO, and ending the Game as soon as they took over was step one of ATT, third of its name, Breaker of DirecTV, Khaleesi of the 5GE, Queen of the Cingulars and of the Centennials and of the Qualcomms, Mother of Arbitration Clauses.

This was all on the producers. They were given the opportunity to make 10 ten-episode seasons and turned it down. They were given the opportunity to have two final 10-episode seasons with increased gaps between them and turned it down. It was on them to have conclude with just 13 episodes from the end of Season 6, which was clearly too little to give the story the ending it really deserved.

HBO's directive has also been to make as much money as humanly possible. GoT is, even with its enormous costs (which are still more than covered by international sales deals every year before a frame of footage is shot), still the most profitable scripted show on the planet. There's no logical reason for HBO's owners to direct them to wrap it up ASAP, rather the contrary.

For the spin-offs, HBO are aware that most spin-offs fail, especially those with no characters crossing over, so they are being understandably cautious about the process. However, they have started shooting the first spin-off already and two others are still in active development (of the other three, they were dropped more because the producers involved have moved on to other projects rather than sitting around for a couple of years waiting for HBO to make a decision).


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ever since Ramsay's ''20 good men'' scene HBO should have hired new writers


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It has occurred to me that Daenerys may have tainted everybody else's claim to the Iron Throne.

Robert's Rebellion resulted in the overthrow of the Targaryens in favor of Robert Baratheon and his heirs. It was justified by the horrible deeds of Aerys the Mad King. If anything, Daenerys has just shown herself to be a far worse monster, so (assuming that her allies are successful in disposing of her) even her allies may want to reconsider the idea of a Targaryen restoration.

Jon Snow's Targaryen heritage is not yet widely known, but he may really not want to mention it now, as it is worthless if people are unwilling to accept a Targaryen monarch.

On the Baratheon side, the only living member of that family is Gendry, a bastard legitimized by the Mad Queen. Is his legitimization itself legitimate, if Daenerys' claim to the Iron Throne is rejected?

Since Cersei succeeded to the throne with no controversy, it looks like we can accept the book genealogy that would make her the heir to House Baratheon if that house went extinct. Her only living heir on the show is Tyrion -- but Tyrion was convicted of murdering King Joffrey and sentenced to death for it. While nobody alive now is likely to want to execute him for that crime, nobody with the authority to do so has pardoned him either, so he is also not currently eligible to succeed to the throne.

In summary -- Nobody is technically eligible to rule Westeros. A council of nobles would have a completely free choice in selecting a monarch, or they could try the previously unthinkable idea of abolishing the monarchy completely.

Sovereign Court

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Im more interested in how Tyrion is going to deliver Highgarden to Bron.


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The Seven Kingdoms as a whole are done with the destruction of King's Landing. Jon will head back north to rule as king there, or should he die, Sansa will stay there and reign. The other regions will remain separate from each other politically, at least in the near future, as all of the major houses are gone.

The lesson here is that in war, no one truly wins, especially not the smallfolk.


Anyone want to see the super secret leak of the final episode?


Someone get me more of the time move faster potion


Phillip Gastone wrote:
Anyone want to see the super secret leak of the final episode?

:)


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I recently came across one of the leaked plot videos from the beginning of the season -- it was ridiculously wrong. If you pay close attention, the more recent videos have been slowly adjusting the supposed plot to harmonize it with what we have actually seen. It took most of this week to remove from any of them the execution of one character without the involvement of the only other character who currently wants him dead.

Liberty's Edge

For whom the bell tolls.

I think Dany's actions would have been better received if that was the actual scene.


Re:Leaked spoilers.

Well Something Awful had a whole thread devoted to it and even had pre Episode 4 airing pics of scenes so I wouldn't be surprised if it is true. With something as big as GoT, I really think it is very difficult to prevent leaked scripts/summaries/clips from escaping onto the internet. The Ending of GoT leaked spoilers are hilariously bad even if a few of them are true.

Such as one where after rocks fall, they die, one of the two actually survives or[

Fake spoilers?:
Their bodies are recovered even though they get buried under tons of rock, seemingly having moved to just a few feet from the surface


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Varys turn of traitor is probably the best written part of the season. It's actually saved it for me. It doesn't redeem the season, but at least has given me something that seemed worthwhile to speculate over, and wonder about. The subtle way it was introduced and executed in EP 5 was actually pretty good.

Liberty's Edge

Only an hour and a half to go!
Very excited!


Irontruth wrote:
Varys turn of traitor is probably the best written part of the season. It's actually saved it for me. It doesn't redeem the season, but at least has given me something that seemed worthwhile to speculate over, and wonder about. The subtle way it was introduced and executed in EP 5 was actually pretty good.

Ready for the incoming poo-storm to rage across the internet.

Varys being 'concerned' about the kiddies rings pretty false since he was more than willing to cozy up to The Mad King and help his delusions.

Plus not wanting to be king is a good quality? Robert Baratheon didn't want to be king and look how that turned out. Littlefinger took that indifference and started all sorts of trash like getting the kingdom into debt and starting wars because he wanted Catalyn as his waifu.

Anyways, I am off to watch


....errr well it’s over at least.

Liberty's Edge

Truly the man for all seasons.

Good final episode IMO.


Ending was a little rushed but good. And a happy ending for the one character i really wanted to have a happy ending

Spoiler:
Good boy ghost. Good boy

Enough happy in the ending without it making it seem like the fantasy cliche A song of ice and fire subverts...

Liberty's Edge

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Initial reaction after watching the finale ...
Um .... huh ...

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