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As for dipping, a good DM will never allow arbitrary class dipping just to pick up extra abilities, and the improvements in all the core classes in PRPG have made that tactic...
First, I think that's quite a judgemental comment. I agree that it's cheese for a player to do so - but there may be many reasons why even a good DM would overlook it - if for no other reason than it's the kind of game he's wishing to play.
Furthermomre, "good DM" is irrelevant when it comes to league play. Players are are going to make their "builds" and cannot be disallowed by a particular DM - whether the DM is "John Doe" or "Ed Greenwood"*.
Robert
* Taking creative liberties that I would imagine he would be quite a good DM - but admittedly without first-hand knowledge.
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The Valeros preview already told us that Vital Strike works substantially differently in the final...unfortunately, all that means is that something is changed, but we don't actually know what.I wasn't 100% sure I remembered the name of the feat correctly, but at PaizoCon, Jason Bulmahn mentioned the Vital Strike chain as a way of allowing a fighter to move and deliver a single blow that deals more damage than his regular attack, but less than if he had the chance to full attack. Basically, a compromise between the 3.5 system, and the hordes clamoring for the ability to iterative attack after a move.
Many on here - myself included - strongly feels that the notion of doing this should be something inherent to the combat rules - not a feat chain that must be selected at cost of losing out on something else. The Barbarian and Paladin specifically are really hurt in that they never get any bonus feats and selecting these strongly hinders their ability for a little more diversity in their feats
That is how I've redesigned combat to work for my own campaigns (making fewer attacks but do more damage with them - but still allow greater mobility/movement).
The monk on the other hand seems to have just as many feats as a fighter - so with that as an option, at least they still have other areas of interest that they can afford to delve into with their feat progressions.
Regardles at least the Vital Strike feats that can be taken do at least give the RAW option of this, which is a step in the right direction and a vast improvement over what we've had before.
Robert
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The monk on the other hand seems to have just as many feats as a fighter - so with that as an option, at least they still have other areas of interest that they can afford to delve into with their feat progressions.
Just a note the monk here had 1 more feat then in beta. Monks however do have their feats front loaded. Wether this stays the same at higher level or not remains to be seen.
A first level human Fighter gets three feats.
Level 1 Feat
Human Bonus
Warrior BonusA first level Human monk gets five feats.
Unarmed strike
Stunnign Fists
Level 1 Feat
Human Bonus
Monk BonusThe fighter will catch up since the monk apparenlty gets bonus feats at 1 2 and 6 (by 8th level) while the fighter gets bonuses at 1, 2, 4, 6, and 8. So by 10th level I suspect the fighter will be higher (and have more options) and at 20th will have a signifigant lead.
So while at certain levels Monks have more feats then fighters, they never have more free feats and fighters will catch up rather quickly.
Fair enough. My point was that they (monks) do still have a plethora of feat-based combat options, so a player opting to adhere to a feat tree (a la Vital Strike) isn't as large of a hindrance to them as say a barbarian or even worse, a paladin - who has no front loaded or back loaded "bonus feats" that provide any combat diversity in styles/tricks/weapon-use progression etc.
The hair-splitting aside of the feat breakdown, it doesn't lessen my stance that I feel that the mechanic in the vital-strike feat tree (or similar mechanic to it) would be better served as status quo for combat - not a feat tree option to it.
Robert
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I will make one point, although I'm not sure whether this even could be adressed. But when the beta rolled around I made a monk who at first level took throw anything and razor sharp chair leg. The idea was to make a Jackie Chan-ish character. In the Beta while he wouldn't be able to benefit from flurry this wasn't much of a drawback, and the character wasn't really hurting himself by ignoring the flurry feature. In the final, not using a weapon that can flurry or your fists is a serious power down, enough that it pretty much breaks the concept, which is a shame because I was having fun with the character. This is actually easily adressed, but I don't know if it has been adressed or not. It only takes a feat to allow a flurry with improvised weapons.
The fighter will catch up since the monk apparenlty gets bonus feats at 1 2 and 6 (by 8th level) while the fighter gets bonuses at 1, 2, 4, 6, and 8. So by 10th level I suspect the fighter will be higher (and have more options) and at 20th will have a signifigant lead.
So while at certain levels Monks have more feats then fighters, they never have more free feats and fighters will catch up rather quickly.
You're right that fighter's catch up and then exceed, however:
Monks get bonus feats at 1,2, and every four after (6,10,14,18). So monk and fighter are tied at 8th, they will be tied until fighter pulls ahead at 12th level, and then again at 16th and 20th. However, if you count the "virtual" two-weapon fighting feats that Monk gets, they are actually even in total (timing uncertain).
I'm afraid not - monks are ahead by 2 at first level *without* considering the virtual two-weapon fighting feats.
:
A first level human Fighter gets three feats.
Level 1 Feat
Human Bonus
Warrior BonusA first level Human monk gets five feats.
Unarmed strike
Stunning Fists
Level 1 Feat
Human Bonus
Monk Bonus
We don't know exactly when the monk gets those two-weapon fighting equivalents. Flurry at 1st is essentially the same. If the monk gets them when they would otherwise qualify for them (at regular BAB +6 and +11), then that would be at 8th and 15th, and the breakdown would be:
Level Monk Fighter
1_____4______1
2_____5______2
4_____5______3
6_____6______4
8_____7______5
10____8______6
12____8______7
14____9______8
16____10_____9
18____11_____10
20____11_____11
For the record I'm not suggesting the virtual feats *should* necessarily be counted, but if they are, the Monk is doing quite well.
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You're right that fighter's catch up and then exceed, however:
Monks get bonus feats at 1,2, and every four after (6,10,14,18). So monk and fighter are tied at 8th, they will be tied until fighter pulls ahead at 12th level, and then again at 16th and 20th. However, if you count the "virtual" two-weapon fighting feats that Monk gets, they are actually even in total (timing uncertain).
Well Monk start out 2 ahead, at 8th they are even Counting the two virtual feats. At 10th they are even counting the virtual feats. From 12th on the fighter is ahead even with the virtual feats.
And in all truth - the point of the number of feats a monk gets or doesn't get in comparison to a fighter was actually supurfluous to my original point which was to comment on "Vital Strike" being a "Feat chain" to allow more damage with less attacks so that one can move an attack more freely; which would work better IMO as an inherent mechanic of combat rules for all - based on BAB. Thus, irrespective of the number of feats monks or fighters get or whether those feats are pre-determined, they could take advantage of that mechanic as status quo without having to use said feats.
As I've said - it's a mechanic that I've implemented for my current Age Of Worms campaign using Beta rules, and it's worked significantly well and entertaining.
Thanks
Robert
So, monks still suck, right?
At high levels, melee fighters tend to suck. And monks are melee fighters. The rest is left as an exercise to the reader.
So, monks still suck, right?At high levels, melee fighters tend to suck. And monks are melee fighters. The rest is left as an exercise to the reader.
Oh totally, Monk's no good at all, no need to look at it further. Go play with your scrolls and stuff. We'll struggle along with the twenty feats, evasion, most attacks, best saves, best movement, and spell resistance as crutches.
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Oh totally, Monk's no good at all, no need to look at it further. Go play with your scrolls and stuff. We'll struggle along with the twenty feats, evasion, most attacks, best saves, best movement, and spell resistance as crutches.So, monks still suck, right?At high levels, melee fighters tend to suck. And monks are melee fighters. The rest is left as an exercise to the reader.
....quite true....and somehow....we'll find a way to survive.
Robert
Oh totally, Monk's no good at all, no need to look at it further. Go play with your scrolls and stuff. We'll struggle along with the twenty feats, evasion, most attacks, best saves, best movement, and spell resistance as crutches.
Don't get me wrong -- I like the new monk! But I stand by what I said about melee fighters having a tough time at high levels.
At low to mid levels they do just fine, though!
Alright it's time for me to chime in:
1) An equal level monk will take down spell casters any day of the week: Spell resistance, good progression on all saves and some additional bonuses to saves, and evasion. Not to mention the fact that their movement rate allows them to quickly close gaps and get into melee combat, forcing them to cast defensively. Stunning fist with any mage's low fortitude save will stun them more often than not. Combine all that with a huge AC to even touch them AND getting an insane amount of attacks per round (especially if one has chosen the two weapon fighting feat tree--yes, it stacks with flurry of blows)= mage killer.
2) This is inherantly a team game, guys. If you want to compare classes with the monk, you are choosing the wrong classes to do that with. A Rogue, A Frontline Fighter (Monk, Barbarian, Paladin, Fighter, some Clerics, some Druids), A Healer (Cleric, Paladin, some Druids), A Glass Cannon (Wizard, Sorceress), and a Tracker (Ranger, some Druids) are the only classes you need to fight off any baddy you come accross: in my current game(with a monk, a paladin, a rogue, a cleric, and a wizard) the cleric spends most of his time healing innocent bystanders rather than the actual party members, with the monk being able to heal himself, while taking almost no damage, and the paladin being able to heal everybody else--but that's beside the point.
3) If you want to look to casters being able to exist by themselves in a party: Druids are the only ones I would look to as far as being capable frontline fighters, with the wild shape ability and spontaneous castings of summon nature's ally.
If you want to look to casters being able to exist by themselves in a party: Druids are the only ones I would look to as far as being capable frontline fighters, with the wild shape ability and spontaneous castings of summon nature's ally.
Ah, the old "if I can't imagine it then it must not happen" logic. Which is OK, but sort of odd given your choice of a screen name...
Alright it's time for me to chime in:
1) An equal level monk will take down spell casters any day of the week: Spell resistance, good progression on all saves and some additional bonuses to saves, and evasion. Not to mention the fact that their movement rate allows them to quickly close gaps and get into melee combat, forcing them to cast defensively. Stunning fist with any mage's low fortitude save will stun them more often than not. Combine all that with a huge AC to even touch them AND getting an insane amount of attacks per round (especially if one has chosen the two weapon fighting feat tree--yes, it stacks with flurry of blows)= mage killer.
2) This is inherantly a team game, guys. If you want to compare classes with the monk, you are choosing the wrong classes to do that with. A Rogue, A Frontline Fighter (Monk, Barbarian, Paladin, Fighter, some Clerics, some Druids), A Healer (Cleric, Paladin, some Druids), A Glass Cannon (Wizard, Sorceress), and a Tracker (Ranger, some Druids) are the only classes you need to fight off any baddy you come accross: in my current game(with a monk, a paladin, a rogue, a cleric, and a wizard) the cleric spends most of his time healing innocent bystanders rather than the actual party members, with the monk being able to heal himself, while taking almost no damage, and the paladin being able to heal everybody else--but that's beside the point.
3) If you want to look to casters being able to exist by themselves in a party: Druids are the only ones I would look to as far as being capable frontline fighters, with the wild shape ability and spontaneous castings of summon nature's ally.
Wookie
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Alright it's time for me to chime in:
1) An equal level monk will take down spell casters any day of the week: Spell resistance, good progression on all saves and some additional bonuses to saves, and evasion. Not to mention the fact that their movement rate allows them to quickly close gaps and get into melee combat, forcing them to cast defensively. Stunning fist with any mage's low fortitude save will stun them more often than not. Combine all that with a huge AC to even touch them AND getting an insane amount of attacks per round (especially if one has chosen the two weapon fighting feat tree--yes, it stacks with flurry of blows)= mage killer.
Monks can't fly, incredibly high Acrobatics (Jump) checks not withstanding. If the spellcaster somehow wins initiative, then he has a chance, flying and summoning things to try and wear down the monk.
Otherwise, yeah, in a one-on-one fight the monk has the edge.
Monks can't fly, incredibly high Acrobatics (Jump) checks not withstanding. If the spellcaster somehow wins initiative, then he has a chance, flying and summoning things to try and wear down the monk.
Otherwise, yeah, in a one-on-one fight the monk has the edge.
In addition to using spells that have no saves. But understandably, these are all high level spells, and hopefully the wizard doesn't keep a giant supply of them in his haversack.
And, I'm sorry... Fly allows you to go up 30' in the first round (if the DM doesn't say "screw flying rules" and allows the caster to go straight up 60'.
Only the most capable of monks will be able to jump 15', and add 10' for typical height+reach, and you're at all of 25'... 5' under the tippy toes of the wizard who's about to rain death upon you.
In which case, your only chance at that point is to take your potion of enlarge person, and convince your DM that you should be able to abundant step on top of the wizard and get a ride check.
And this is why wise monks take up winged boots when given the option.
1) From what I'm reading in the Beta (maybe it's different in the final) all it says that might possibly eliminate the possibility of the two-weapons feats is: "A monk must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows." The two weapons feats are used as part of full attack actions and nothing is sacrificed by using flurry of blows(e.g.: whirlwind attack).
2) At level 8 now, assuming that one decided to boost the acrobatics skill (since, you know, it's friggin' sweet now) every level: Your acrobatics to jump would go as follows:
+3 in class
+8 for level
+8 for speed
+8 for skill ranks
+ Dex Mod
+10 for ring of improved jumping
+20 for ki pool expenditure
=57+Dex Mod just as a bonus
seriously we are looking at a +60 bonus (+3 Dex mod should be fair for a monk especially at that level) just at level eight. At it gets more ridiculous from there as next level that bonus would go up by 6: +4 speed, +1 skill, +1 level. To put that into perspective at level eight you are jumping 15 feet in the air just on your bonus PLUS whatever you roll: yes, I know I used a magic item in figuring all of this, but it is perfectly reasonable to assume that a character would be able to purchase a magic item for himself at some point. I did not however stack on the boots of haste bonus that gives you +12 to your jump checks due to your speed (3 extra feet), nor did I include the run feat for an extra +4. So if you want to include all of that that's approx. +76 to a jump check (19 feet). Then you have bracers of dex blah, blah, blah. You can see how the figures start stacking up quick...at 8th level, not to mention it only gets worse as we go along. Basically add 1 foot every 2 levels AND 1 foot every three levels, so: every six levels a total of 5 feet (meaning at 14th level, 20 feet with the basic set-up, 24 feet with the advanced). This is all before rolls, meaning at 14th level, if you rolled a 2: you would be able to reach the groin of the mage.
As I've always said go big or go home.
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What happens when the wizard casts fire shield? or repulsion? or gust of wind?
What happens when he teleports 1000 feet straight up and lobs fireballs down for rounds on end while gently floating down on featherfall spell?
Take any monk you want, and I guarantee you I will cream it with any old plain wizard of equal level.
1) From what I'm reading in the Beta (maybe it's different in the final) all it says that might possibly eliminate the possibility of the two-weapons feats is
I believe that the Jason specifically said they don't stack anymore. (Called it "clearing this point up" or something similar, but since it was perfectly clear before that they DID stack "changing this to be less cheesy" probably would have been more accurate.)
[EDIT]
I'm not hating on your build, using two-weapon with flurry was just good sense, when it worked.
Purple Dragon Knight:
I would like to test your theory, but I know not how to for all eyes to see. Any suggestions?
Kuma:
The reason I put it as such was that I have yet to see the book for myself and I am holding off judgement on the subject until I see the actual rules: just because something is described as "X" doesn't mean it is "X." A platypus is neither duck nor beaver.
Furthermore, using the rules to one's advantage whenever possible is not "cheesy," it's helping your party out. Each party member has their own role to play: in my opinion, the monk's is get behind enemy lines and go "LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME, YOU SHOULD BE TARGETING ME!" Attracting as much attention as he possibly can so that the REST of the party can tear the baddies to sheds in their own way; that, and kill mages ;P
Just remember, this is supposed to be FUN: it's a GAME. Just because I pose a contrary opinion, does not mean that I'm trying to attack anyone's "favorite class," which--by the way--mine is actually tied between rogue and druid. I'm just sticking up for the monks in the house.
[Edit]
Additionally, Improved Disarm is a great way to get a wizard's spell book away from him (the monk would actually have it in hand at that point, since he is unarmed), and Improved Grapple is a way to constantly has to make rolls to see if he casts the spell or not (even if it is a sorceress)--both of which are bonus feats to the monk.
Spellbook? Why would a wizard carry his spell book in a clearly visible location? Although spell component pouch (or holy symbol for divine casters) would serve pretty much the same purpose. Better actually, since losing a spellbook does nothing until the wizard in question has to prepare spells again.
Kuma:
The reason I put it as such was that I have yet to see the book for myself and I am holding off judgement on the subject until I see the actual rules: just because something is described as "X" doesn't mean it is "X." A platypus is neither duck nor beaver.Furthermore, using the rules to one's advantage whenever possible is not "cheesy," it's helping your party out. Each party member has their own role to play: in my opinion, the monk's is get behind enemy lines and go "LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME, YOU SHOULD BE TARGETING ME!" Attracting as much attention as he possibly can so that the REST of the party can tear the baddies to sheds in their own way; that, and kill mages ;P
Just remember, this is supposed to be FUN: it's a GAME. Just because I pose a contrary opinion, does not mean that I'm trying to attack anyone's "favorite class," which--by the way--mine is actually tied between rogue and druid. I'm just sticking up for the monks in the house.
What?
I said that the guy designing the rules said that it doesn't work, not that I'm making a guesstimate.
And I tried to make it clear that I agreed with the idea of mixing flurry and two-weapon:
using two-weapon with flurry was just good sense
Kuma:
All I'm saying is that all I saw Jason Bulmahn say was this:
Let's start by taking a look at the monk's primary mode of attack: flurry of blows. This system is revised from the 3.5 version to work using mechanics similar to the Two-Weapon Fighting feats, but the new monk goes one step further and uses its monk level as its base attack bonus whenever it uses flurry of blows.
And there was no other mention of the interaction between the feat tree and flurry in the preview. Unless there is something that I'm just not seeing (like another article), I'm holding off judgement until I read the actual rules for myself.
As far as the other comment, I think I was kinda being a @#$%*%& on that, so...sorry.
Q: So can he go TWF + Imp. TWF and get even more attacks?
No. This particular confusion has been clarified.Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Easy to miss, but he posted this back on Page 2
Oh totally, Monk's no good at all, no need to look at it further. Go play with your scrolls and stuff. We'll struggle along with the twenty feats, evasion, most attacks, best saves, best movement, and spell resistance as crutches.So, monks still suck, right?At high levels, melee fighters tend to suck. And monks are melee fighters. The rest is left as an exercise to the reader.
Phft, Also the Dimension Door ability, and self healing, plus various other immunities.
Not that these are actually worth anything, so I can understand how they didn't get included.
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Purple Dragon Knight:
I would like to test your theory, but I know not how to for all eyes to see. Any suggestions?
Just to clarify: I love the new monk, and I think it's a fine class. I'm just tired of hearing people compare apples to oranges. You can't evaluate the improvements on the new monk by pitting him against different classes. The real way to evaluate the new monk would be to pit a 3.5 monk vs. a PRPG monk. Any other comparisons are moot, unscientific, illogical and irrelevant.
PS: I have the same opinion about Fighter vs. Wizard threads.
PS2: ...but yes, I still think a wizard can beat any other class, at equal level. Why? wizards are "rule breakers" (i.e. cast a spell and you suddenly change the nature of the engagement drastically). I once had a player complain his (multiclassed) wizard was weak because he was two spell levels behind (because of Mystic Theurge prereqs) I told him to give me his character sheet, looked at the character's spellbook, re-shuffled his spell selection and told the (apparently unbeatable) fighter of the party to try his best putting the smackdown on the (apparently weak) wizard. Well, about nine rounds later (which included a displacement spell and a dimension door), the fighter was in the negatives, and the wizard had not been hit yet... and I hadn't gone into his cleric spell list yet...
Oh totally, Monk's no good at all, no need to look at it further. Go play with your scrolls and stuff. We'll struggle along with the twenty feats, evasion, most attacks, best saves, best movement, and spell resistance as crutches.So, monks still suck, right?At high levels, melee fighters tend to suck. And monks are melee fighters. The rest is left as an exercise to the reader.Phft, Also the Dimension Door ability, and self healing, plus various other immunities.
Not that these are actually worth anything, so I can understand how they didn't get included.
Heh... Battlemats are not large enough to handle a monk doing a double move at 15th level let alone running at 3-4 times move speed. Being able to leap 60' (more now) is also pretty cool. Whenever a monk starts scrambling around the battlefield I can't help but think of the old videos of the bionic man running super fast. Do they need special shoes to handle cornering at 60MPH?
There should be a special feat chain which allows monks to do crazy stuff while going full speed. "Charging tackle" "Run up walls" (I know it's a psionic feat... love to see it core) "Flying Kick"... I need to watch more martial arts movies.
stuff
Yeah.
Max land speed?
Human - 30'
Level 20 monk - +60'
Haste - +30'
Total: 120'
Run Feat: Run at 5x speed
120 x 5 = 600 as move action
1200' as full round action
full round = 6s
1200'/6s=200fps
200fps x 60s/minute x 60minute/hour = 720,000feet per hour
720,000 feet per hour x 1 mile / 5280 feet = 136mph
Divide by 5, and you'll note that the monk WALKS at 27 mph.
But this pales in comparison to the flight of dragons, however, which tops out at 227 mph.
Always fun, by the way, to throw a wall of force in front of a dragon that's hurrying away.
Takamonk, you got the monk going 600' as a move action. Running is a full round action. If I missed something somewhere let me know. I can't figure it out.
On another note on haste... I've been wondering, does haste or a boots of striding and springing stack with the Monks speed? They are all considered enhancement bonuses so I was wondering if those would stack.
On another note on haste... I've been wondering, does haste or a boots of striding and springing stack with the Monks speed? They are all considered enhancement bonuses so I was wondering if those would stack.
They don't stack since they're enhancement bonuses.
Yeah, his numbers should be half that, but still... 68 mph is ridiculous for a human being! :P
You ain't kidding. Move over Usain Bolt!
Thanks!
They don't stack since they're enhancement bonuses.
That's what I thought but I was hoping I was wrong. Is there anything out there that will stack with his speed? I don't know of anything offhand.
Thanks!
Q: So can he go TWF + Imp. TWF and get even more attacks?
Easy to miss, but he posted this back on Page 2
No. This particular confusion has been clarified.Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
That's the quote I was referencing, yes.
Well okay then, point conceded (NEXT TIME GADGET, NEXT TIME!!!!!)
As far as the "moot points" of comparing classes, I would like to say that you maybe should take a look at how they fair against one another to exploit the weaknesses inherant in each one in battle versus baddies. Plus it's great mental exercise, and I don't mind playing devil's advocate for ANY class. With any class in this system, there are so many varying features within each class that each fighter is different from the next, each monk is different, each barbarian is different, and there will always be a trick up your sleeve even though you may be REALLY good at one thing. Kudos and ups to thy bad selves Paizo! The best class is the glove that fits you--and your group--at the time, roleplaying is key to any game (this isn't hack-slash-and-burn-finder). The moments that I remember are not the ogres, liches, and demons my characters killed--it's when my characters got married, when the met the ruler of the land, that sort of thing. I see all these discussion boards about all this battle related stuff, but the thing that gets my gamer rocks off is the background stories and the like. Total side note, but I'm just sayin'.
They don't stack since they're enhancement bonuses.That's what I thought but I was hoping I was wrong. Is there anything out there that will stack with his speed? I don't know of anything offhand.
Thanks!
Racial bonus's to speed would count for sure (although none of the core races get them, some of the other races do, such as catfolk if I remember correctly).
Circumstance bonus's would (Not sure if any items grant circumstance bonus's, but I thought some spells did, but I could be wrong about that)
Some of the feats from the Eberron sourcebook (Fleet of foot) would, if your DM is allowing those.
The Dash feat (complete warrior) adds 5 feet in light armor/encumberance.
They don't stack since they're enhancement bonuses.That's what I thought but I was hoping I was wrong. Is there anything out there that will stack with his speed? I don't know of anything offhand.
Thanks!
Barbarian's speed bonus is untyped... I guess there is that alignment restriction thing though. Bummer
Just remember that an ex-monk keep all of his class abilities, including speed. So monk gone barbaric might be an awesome character concept. Plus dash, run, haste, and polymoph to cheetah and you've got major speed (not captain, not general, major).
Just remember that an ex-monk keep all of his class abilities, including speed. So monk gone barbaric might be an awesome character concept.
Done it :P
Monk/Bar/PsyWar actually. Speed of Thought +Haste +Epic Speed feat +Run feat=I think I broke the speed of sound when I ran.
Just remember that an ex-monk keep all of his class abilities, including speed. So monk gone barbaric might be an awesome character concept. Plus dash, run, haste, and polymoph to cheetah and you've got major speed (not captain, not general, major).
Well, again Haste wouldn't stack, but good to go on Barb, Run, and the "Fleet" feat is in the Final version (I had it at PaizoCon) - this was posted on the forums in the big group of feats and adds 5 ft. to movement. It also says:
"Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Its effects stack. "So...
An 18th level Monk, 1st level human Barb, who takes every feat but one (10) as Fleet (not counting bonus monk feats, Run on the other), would have a movement of:
30 base + 60 Monk + 10 Barb + 50 Fleet + 20 ki point = 170 ft
and run 650 ft per round (that's 130 squares, or almost 11 ft, over twice the length/width of my table.)
Lovely :)
So what you're saying is, he could run a mile in just a little over 8 rounds? About 50 seconds? Are you kidding me?
Next thing you're gonna tell me is he can jump the Grand Canyon....STANDING STILL!:)