Sigh....Can you guys just chill. It gets old seeing the same 3 or 4 people taking shots from the trenches every chance they get.
If you didn't like the poem or what ever ignore it. Of if it broke form rules( Don't think it did) Flag it and move on
If this thread hurts you that bad DO NOT POST IN IT.
Just a thought...please carry on with the war
You should probably read what I've been saying. Ignoring the thread, ignoring the vitriol, and ignoring the personal attacks has not solved anything more than a year after the fact, and the reputation of the Paizo forum community is suffering. It is because these things are ignored by those who consider them ugly, tolerated by those who don't care, and applauded by those who share in their desire to fill the forum with that same vitriol that this community has the reputation it does.
I don't like the reputation it has gained, and I don't like the harm that reputation is doing to perception of the Paizo fanbase and the Paizo brand.
Hey look it's the Munn
See, this is the sort of thing that makes this community welcoming and inviting. :D
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Actually, as I read it the poem is about the guys who come in here and try to police us. The dudes who don't want us to have our own opinions about 4E. Namely, you.Among other things, yes.
And I am not trying to prevent anyone from having their own opinion. "I dislike 4th Edition," is an opinion, and while I disagree, it doesn't harm the community. Even "I hate 4th Edition," is fine. "4th Edition sucks #@% and the people who make it are complete idiots," goes beyond sharing your opinion and into the realm of divisive, harmful vitriol. Do you see the difference?
He says the edition sucks ass, and that they traded tradition for cash - the latter is patently obvious and the former is opinion. But really, I think the poem is about you, it doesn't harsh on WotC much at all.Yeah, because the entire second half of the poem totally isn't about WotC or its marketing or design choices at all.
See, here it is again. You are defending a post that is openly insulting to an individual, a group of individuals, and an entire game company. It is flagrantly vitriolic, serves no constructive purpose, and exists for no other reason than to be derogatory and provoke an equally vitriolic reaction.
This cannot happen if you want this community to be respected and seen as inviting.
Dude, lighten up. Alot of people feel that WoTC has done some realy stupid things in the last couple of years. I am one of them, you obviously are not. But to say that the people on these boards are not welcoming is way off the mark. I am still pretty new to the place and I had no problem finding quite a few friends here, even though I argued heavily with a number of them in one of the first threads I really got into. You are coming across as such a rabid supporter that you seem to dislike anything but praise for WoTC, I don't have to praise the company, I don't like the company, and sometimes, just sometimes, I may want to vent about that to people who understand where I'm coming from. Now can we please just drop the whole thing and go back to having a good time?
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Hey look it's the MunnSee, this is the sort of thing that makes this community welcoming and inviting. :D
She does indeed don't she! ;)
Dude, lighten up. Alot of people feel that WoTC has done some realy stupid things in the last couple of years. I am one of them, you obviously are not. But to say that the people on these boards are not welcoming is way off the mark.
It is not that the people are inherently unwelcoming. It is their attitude towards WotC that makes this board unwelcoming to many of those who like 4th Edition and are fans of WotC. The distinction is important. Posts like those I've pointed out in this thread create an atmosphere of inhospitableness for a very large segment of the RPG community.
Hey look it's the Munn
I think it's cool that with only 10 posts someone can come in here and not only understand the norm for diffusing hostility, but step right in like you've been here forever.
Peace, Xabulba, and welcome.
As far as I'm concerned, it hasn't because it wasn't done. Look at this thread. The vitriol started with post 4 and guess who the author was?
The vitriol in this thread started with post #2. It's unsurprising that you'd push it up to my post, though.
The most telling part of the community's reaction to this thread is how wildly different the same people would react if Paizo had hosted this contest instead.
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As far as I'm concerned, it hasn't because it wasn't done. Look at this thread. The vitriol started with post 4 and guess who the author was?The vitriol in this thread started with post #2. It's unsurprising that you'd push it up to my post, though.
Let us go back to dwelling on the finer aspects of a certain santa suit shall we my good man.
sigh, sorry forgot what I was thinking. Carry on your war
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sigh, sorry forgot what I was thinking. Carry on your war
In best arnold schwarsneger voice
Run get to the chopper
Anyway back on topic of the shoes I think they are silly nothing to do with putting D&D stuff on clothes or anything but why a set of shoes? A t-shirt I can understand its on the centre of your chest in an easy to view prominent location. Shoes on the other hand not so much (After all there is a reason superman had that big S on his chest and not on his boots)
Again, this sort of behavior is not cool. More than a dozen people have responded to this thread since the above post come up, and not one has made it clear to the poster that vitriol like that is not appreciated.
This is what I'm talking about.
That's because we're doing what we've been told, REPEATEDLY, by the Paizo staff. Ignore those posts we don't like and flag them if we think they cross the line.
You're doing what you've been told, REPEATEDLY, NOT TO DO, even by Paizo staff, namely continuing your "policing" of the boards of anyone who posts anything you disagree with concerning 4E and WotC.Not only that, but you continue to spread your rumour about nothing being done with flagged posts, despite having been told to quit it, since it isn't true, by Paizo staff.
Again, quit policing the boards and try and look at some of the posts in a humorous light. I'm sure your blood pressure will thank you in the coming years. Also, realize that it's weekend and even though the Paizo staff are a bunch of ultra dedicated people, they don't and can't monitor the boards 24/7.
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I wouldn't have put it so harshly... hostile and insular.Hehe, so we're hostile and insular, too. You're doing great Betts.
People think what they will think. They say what they will say.
Your wanting to impose correctness on everyone, and tell them what they're supposed to feel and think about WotC is absurd.
None of the guys who have come in here and tried to do what you are doing has helped at all. The only thing you guys do is get people more agitated and escalate the vitriol.
So now you've impuned us twice. We've done nothing but ignore some guy, and you continue to lecture us.
Dude, I feel warm and welcome here - even when I'm ripping on someone for b***!&~#ting me, just trying to kick them around the debate floor to blow off steam, or being ripped and kicked myself by someone else. When we finally take our boots off, we know there will always be Lilith's cookies and people will still be friends.
You don't have a badge, chill out and let them fume.
Pretty much said everything I feel as well (though what the hell is a Lilith cookie?) so no use in saying anything myself over this matter.
If the way I act or feel or what I choose TO do or NOT to do offends someone, than that's just something they get to live with. I'm handling things the way I think is best, not the way someone else does (in this instance Scott). It's the same way as I ignore the 4e people who say their own extreme things.
It's the internet ... people say all sorts of crazy crap. If it was my duty or responsibility to police every site I went on ... well that would be a pretty lame and boring life. "Someone's wrong on the internet and I have to let them know how wrong they are" ... yea ... I'll let someone else be that guy.
Sort of on topic (though given the original post I'm not sure if there IS a topic anymore) I wouldn't mind seeing a Paizo/Pathfinder laptop or shoulder bag. Also a hoody. Please I want a hoody AND a beanie so bad it's not even funny.
As for footwear, I guess I never really give it much thought anymore. I need size 14 shoes so usually if I find a pair I don't HATE I snatch them up since it's hard to find good shoes in a store for my size. I can order online but what if they don't fit right or aren't comfortable? A lot of hassle.
sigh, sorry forgot what I was thinking. Carry on your warIn best arnold schwarsneger voice
Run get to the chopper
Anyway back on topic of the shoes I think they are silly nothing to do nothing to do with putting D&D stuff on clothes or anything but why a set of shoes? A t-shirt I can understand its on the centre of your chest in an easy to view prominent location. Shoes on the other hand not so much (After all there is a reason superman had that big S on his chest and not on his boots)
Well, they've got t-shirts already. To be honest, there's a huge assortment of D&D-themed apparel and other gear out there right now. Shoes, however, is a new one. Maybe they figured it was something they should look into (especially since they tried it out with Magic first), and went with the contest format.
Hey look it's the Munn
Yawn... this thread would be much better if you guys actually posted some interesting looking women... :-D
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sigh, sorry forgot what I was thinking. Carry on your warIn best arnold schwarsneger voice
Run get to the chopper
Anyway back on topic of the shoes I think they are silly nothing to do nothing to do with putting D&D stuff on clothes or anything but why a set of shoes? A t-shirt I can understand its on the centre of your chest in an easy to view prominent location. Shoes on the other hand not so much (After all there is a reason superman had that big S on his chest and not on his boots)
I could see somthin' like those on my sons feet... but he's 6.
I seem to find it very difficult to get the words for another post.
I do think that disagree with pretty much all of Pax's posts on the 4e forum. I have similar feelings for posters like Titanium Dragon. But rarely it seems that people want both to be argued with, rather, only the side opposite that posters position.
Thinking back, trying to combat other posters usually results in the fight escalating with numbers growing on both sides of the argument. I don't believe it makes the thread more welcoming. I don't believe that it makes the opposition leave without causing many moderate posters to leave.
I believe to rely more on moderators to censor what need to be censored or admonished.
That's because we're doing what we've been told, REPEATEDLY, by the Paizo staff. Ignore those posts we don't like and flag them if we think they cross the line.
You're doing what you've been told, REPEATEDLY, NOT TO DO, even by Paizo staff, namely continuing your "policing" of the boards of anyone who posts anything you disagree with concerning 4E and WotC.
Not only that, but you continue to spread your rumour about nothing being done with flagged posts, despite having been told to quit it, since it isn't true, by Paizo staff.
Pretty much none of the above is true.
First, I've made it clear that some of the posts I take issue with are not rule-breaking posts. They are simply in bad taste and reflect poorly upon the community as a whole.
Second, I have not said here that flagging does nothing. I have said that flagging a post does not often result in action against that post. I have flagged a lot of posts that are clearly derogatory, abusive, etc., and rarely is action taken. It has been implied that this is because moderation favors posts which have been flagged multiple times, and people rarely use the flagging system.
And, above all, GentleGiant, I do not actively "police" everyone who disagrees with me. I certainly disagree right back at them quite a bit, but I only call their behavior into question when it is poor behavior.
Hey look it's the MunnYawn... this thread would be much better if you guys actually posted some interesting looking women... :-D
That's the saddest thing I've seen in this thread so far...
Hey look it's the MunnYawn... this thread would be much better if you guys actually posted some interesting looking women... :-D
P.S. Kruelaid, thank you for the welcome.
I believe to rely more on moderators to censor what need to be censored or admonished.
This would be ideal, but it would require a more active moderation. There are no forums out there that I'm aware of which have weathered the edition wars successfully without active moderation taking place. Paizo's boards take a much more passive approach to moderation, and anti-WotC invective is much more plentiful as a result.
kinda funny they are MORE edition war happy at wotc and way more hostial over there.
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Hey look it's the MunnSee, this is the sort of thing that makes this community welcoming and inviting. :D
Ok let me try and practice;
*Ahem* Posts like these two are offensive and only serve to hurt this community in welcoming some women. They feel objectified or now less of a woman because they don't look as thin or as "pretty" as Miss Munn does. These type of posts should NOT be tolerated and we should all make sure that sexist posts like this that are used to objectify women are not allowed to go unchecked.
WOOHOO! I did it!
... wait ... did I do it right?
On shoes,eh what ever lest they could have made cool shoes
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I believe to rely more on moderators to censor what need to be censored or admonished.This would be ideal, but it would require a more active moderation. There are no forums out there that I'm aware of which have weathered the edition wars successfully without active moderation taking place. Paizo's boards take a much more passive approach to moderation, and anti-WotC invective is much more plentiful as a result.
Scott,
And Wizard's boards are massively anti-Paizo. What a shock. A company's boards, populated primarily by fans of that company, are not friendly to enthusiastic supporters of what they consider a major rival. Who would have thought it? The mere presence of a 4E section of the boards is evidence that the boards are welcoming. I don't see a Paizo section on WotC, do you? (Also for invective and vitriol, I suggest you look at a recent Beta review by a 4E enthusiast. It's not all one way here.)Also, as has been pointed out repeatedly, YOU ARE NOT HELPING! Getting a rise out of you seems to be part of the 'fun' now. The more you post on these threads, the longer they get, and the more people who really don't care about the edition wars anymore, see you and a bunch of other people acting like jerks to each other. So again, the more you post, the more posts come out that bash 4E because of you. If you don't post, these threads will die out quickly. If you do, you kick the hornet's nest of 4E-haters and, surprise surprise, they come out to get you. So, again, what you are doing is counterproductive to your stated goals.
Also, Paizo is not going to go to active moderation any time soon. The staff are too busy. Also, "Don't be a jerk" is part of the forum rules. Being a jerk is breaking those rules. You clearly think people here are being jerks. Report them as such. Do not respond. If a lot of people don't agree with you and don't flag it, maybe you're wrong?
EDIT: My God, that's a lot of 'also's.
SHOOOOZ!!
That's the saddest thing I've seen in this thread so far...Hey look it's the MunnYawn... this thread would be much better if you guys actually posted some interesting looking women... :-D
Is this more to your liking?
Fear not, I'll return later today with some proper lookers! ;-)
I'd post some now, but I'm running out of time, the guys are coming around for game time in less than an hour!|
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Hey look it's the MunnSee, this is the sort of thing that makes this community welcoming and inviting. :DOk let me try and practice;
*Ahem* Posts like these two are offensive and only serve to hurt this community in welcoming some women. They feel objectified or now less of a woman because they don't look as thin or as "pretty" as Miss Munn does. These type of posts should NOT be tolerated and we should all make sure that sexist posts like this that are used to objectify women are not allowed to go unchecked.
WOOHOO! I did it!
... wait ... did I do it right?
** spoiler omitted **
She don't do much for me either.... Munn I mean I don't know your wife ;p
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As far as I'm concerned, it hasn't because it wasn't done. Look at this thread. The vitriol started with post 4 and guess who the author was?The vitriol in this thread started with post #2. It's unsurprising that you'd push it up to my post, though.
The most telling part of the community's reaction to this thread is how wildly different the same people would react if Paizo had hosted this contest instead.
As it is unsurprising that you ignored the post I wrote before but chose to react on this one instead.
If you felt offended by aelyngyr's post than that's clearly not because of the things he actually wrote but because you wanted to feel offended. You were overreacting because of a criticism which was in no way directed at you nor any other member of the 4E-part of the Paizo community. Which becomes quite obvious if you compare your post to the one Blazej wrote just before you did.
As far as this shoe thing is concerned: I did not comment on it because I don't care. I was never into the merchandise aspect of D&D and don't consider it part of the gaming culture to which I belong. If Paizo did the same thing I wouldn't care either. And if I chose to comment on it, it would quite probably be in the same vein VagrantWhisper did in the first post.
Scott,
And Wizard's boards are massively anti-Paizo. What a shock. A company's boards, populated primarily by fans of that company, are not friendly to enthusiastic supporters of what they consider a major rival. Who would have thought it? The mere presence of a 4E section of the boards is evidence that the boards are welcoming. I don't see a Paizo section on WotC, do you? (Also for invective and vitriol, I suggest you look at a recent Beta review by a 4E enthusiast. It's not all one way here.)
The whole "they do it too!" line of reasoning is pretty stale, don't you think?
Also, as has been pointed out repeatedly, YOU ARE NOT HELPING! Getting a rise out of you seems to be part of the 'fun' now. The more you post on these threads, the longer they get, and the more people who really don't care about the edition wars anymore, see you and a bunch of other people acting like jerks to each other. So again, the more you post, the more posts come out that bash 4E because of you. If you don't post, these threads will die out quickly. If you do, you kick the hornet's nest of 4E-haters and, surprise surprise, they come out to get you. So, again, what you are doing is counterproductive to your stated goals.
I disagree, and I've already explained why.
Also, Paizo is not going to go to active moderation any time soon. The staff are too busy. Also, "Don't be a jerk" is part of the forum rules. Being a jerk is breaking those rules. You clearly think people here are being jerks. Report them as such. Do not respond. If a lot of people don't agree with you and don't flag it, maybe you're wrong?
Or maybe people don't make extensive use of the flag system because history has demonstrated that unless multiple people flag a post, action is rarely taken even when it is clearly warranted, and people have no guarantee that others will flag the post (for the same reason as them - why flag when it might not have an effect?). I'm definitely not the only person here who has noticed that flagging offending posts is unreliable as a form of moderation.
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Ok, I just found that there's much more important things to do.
(though what the hell is a Lilith cookie?)
Now, I understand why you're called Misery. 'Cause you happened to miss the best thing this great community has to offer. This is something we have to something against immediately.
But please, see for youself:
If you felt offended by aelyngyr's post than that's clearly not because of the things he actually wrote but because you wanted to feel offended.
I was not offended by aelyngyr's post. As you point out, there's no reason for me, personally, to be offended.
I did, however, perceive it as a ridiculous reaction.
But really, ask yourself how you'd behave if Paizo sponsored a shoe-designing contest and someone said "A shoe design contest? How much lower can Paizo possibly get?"
The actually offensive post(s) came later, especially Pax Veritas' poem.
You were overreacting because of a criticism which was in no way directed at you nor any other member of the 4E-part of the Paizo community. Which becomes quite obvious if you compare your post to the one Blazej wrote just before you did.
I don't think I overreacted at all. I was illustrating aelyngyr's overreaction with a bit of sarcastic parody.
Ok, I just found that there's much more important things to do.
(though what the hell is a Lilith cookie?)Now, I understand why you're called Misery. 'Cause you happened to miss the best thing this great community has to offer. This is something we have to something against immediately.
But please, see for youself:
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/paizocon/archives/real LilithMadeCookies&page=1
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But really, ask yourself how you'd behave if Paizo sponsored a shoe-designing contest and someone said "A shoe design contest? How much lower can Paizo possibly get?"
You know, it's for exact this reason that I don't comment on what I think about this shoe contest so that I can keep my mouth shot if Paizo does decide to do something similar.
Oh, and thanks for the linkification (can you say that? )
But really, ask yourself how you'd behave if Paizo sponsored a shoe-designing contest and someone said "A shoe design contest? How much lower can Paizo possibly get?"You know, it's for exact this reason that I don't comment on what I think about this shoe contest so that I can keep my mouth shot if Paizo does decide to do something similar.
Oh, and thanks for the linkification (can you say that? )
I'm sure it'll be in the dictionary eventually.
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She don't do much for me either.... Munn I mean I don't know your wife ;p
We should form a club or something. After all, we're likely part of a very "special" group of individuals that just doesn't get it. We'll be outcasts :D
... only not the cool kind. More the type where people kick us in the shins when we walk by T_T
Now, I understand why you're called Misery. 'Cause you happened to miss the best thing this great community has to offer. This is something we have to something against immediately.
But please, see for youself:
Real Lilith Made Cookies
Guess I'm out of the loop. Never really thought much about learning the community ways. I'm a loser like that >_<. I also did some digging around and they are handed out for new people.
... I think my cookie is old and nasty by now, wherever it may be.
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Spoilered for being an off-topic rant, having absolutely no relevance to shoe design ...
...more of the same...Posters here DO try and do something about stuff that bothers us. You just have no idea how we work it, because the only guy you're really listening to is yourself.
Chill out, hang, watch what's going on, and eventually you'll get it.
I really didn't want to buy into this debate, so I'll try and make this short and direct as possible.
Kruelaid is 100% correct.
My methods of dealing with trolls are simply not to throw them any more bait. My methods of dealing with thread derailments is to post back hard on topic. I fear that by even making this reply I'm failing on both those accounts.
How many pages has it been since anyone actually discussed the merits of the shoe design competition? - now consider every post you've contributed, and every reply to each of your posts. If they've been off-topic, then remove them (including this one of mine), and see how much healthier this thread has become.
The only proof you need that the Paizo community responds to inappropriate behaviour on these boards, is to consider the reaction your own posts have received? I think the community has spoken, it's just that somehow you're not getting the message. It takes a hard skin to let the criticisms slide and not respond, but you'll be more respected for doing so.
Peace.
Spoilered for being an off-topic rant, having absolutely no relevance to shoe design ...
** spoiler omitted ** And for the record, I'm gay, so unless Olivia Munn has an opinion about custom-designed shoes (I knew there was a reason that drew me to this topic!), she contributes nothing to redeem this thread.
Yummy little devil ain't he.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
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Hey look it's the MunnYawn... this thread would be much better if you guys actually posted some interesting looking women... :-D
What?! She doesn't do anything for you?! YOU have a different opinion than I do? You have different tastes?
Well!!
In that case, you and your opinions are no longer worth of my respect. From now on, I will follow you from thread to thread starting needless flamewars and making snide comments implying bad things about your intellect.
This thread is healing.