As we use a computer for the detailed or complex battles we play out with tokens/ e-miniatures, the paper edition is only a collector's item for me. I would not mind having it as independent products from the Chronicles line.
I can see you guys being reluctant to release it just as a pdf (as the maps can be obtained from the AP pdfs). But if you produced a .pdf version with resized maps (easier for grid usage), I would probably purchase them as I run the APs.
As is, the AP Map Folios are not very useful. I would like to see the resources moved to something else, or have the Folios changed.
If the Map Folios provided something "new" then I would certainly re-think my position. What sort of new things? Pretty much what most have been saying - 1" battlemaps (most useful), and maps not currently present in another product.
Best.
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I would gladly pay more to get some sort of 1" map to use as long as it was able to be used in a few parts of an AP. I agree with posters saying that it does fill a niche, but it is paying for the same thing twice when we already have the pdfs.
I would pick them up if they:
-came out earlier, even half way through the AP (I know that is difficult and probably can't happen)
-had a battlemat or two that were reusable
-the pdf of it had a re-scaled map
-if there were keyless and keyed maps
-had pockets (which I believe costs more)
I would gladly pay more for some or all of those things in this product.
As a sidenote, I am looking very forward to the Cities of Golarion Map Folio!
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I hate wasting ink on printing maps and the map folios have enabled me to have the map in front of me and keep the book open to the place I want. I have found them much more useful than I initially thought I would. I for one do not mind them in the subscription and likely would end up buying them if they were offered seperately.
I was initially disappointed with the Map Folios. I thought they'd be battlemaps.
However, once I had them.. I did find that I actually used them. Sure! Why not, I paid for it, why shouldn't I use it?!
But I could live without them very easily. They're the ultimate in unnecessary luxury item.
********************************
HERE'S WHAT I'D LIKE INSTEAD-
How about an inexpensive PDF Only Product, with layers that I can toggle on and off. I believe you can do this, and someone with Reader can just toggle the laters on and off that they want to see.
On these layers would be all the room numbers, names, and secret doors.
Hell, you could put entire rooms and hallways that are behind secret doors on a different layer.
Make this a PDF only product.
This would allow me to import the maps into a VTT or print them without having to photoshop or GIMP them.
1.) Put the room numbers on one layer
2.) Put the names on another layer
3.) Secret doors and the areas they conceal on yet another. If the door and room isn't visible, have a generic stone texture underneath it.
That way, I can have the map that I want, when I want it.
Leave me to worry about a paper copy. If I want one, I'll print it out myself.
Charge me between $3-6 bucks for this PDF only product.
You'd still getting maps from the cartographers, this is really just a little data manipulation of the maps you have to provide anyway. That is what you'd be charging your customers a couple bucks for...
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You'd still getting maps from the cartographers, this is really just a little data manipulation of the maps you have to provide anyway. That is what you'd be charging your customers a couple bucks for...
Uhm.
Actually, it would be a helluva lot more for the cartographers to do - both in designing the maps and in creating the files they submit. This isn't toggling a little switch to make secret doors and hidden areas disappear, this is radically changing the way in which the maps are built, from the ground up.
Uhm.Actually, it would be a helluva lot more for the cartographers to do - both in designing the maps and in creating the files they submit. This isn't toggling a little switch to make secret doors and hidden areas disappear, this is radically changing the way in which the maps are built, from the ground up.
::shrug::
Okay, don't do it then. I defer to somebody else's greater knowledge.
Still, back to point, the folios as they are now don't represent a good dollar value. They don't do enough. That is not to say that I don't use them, but they're expensive for what they are.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
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I don't find the map packs as useless as prior posters, though I do feel they could be improved for use.
Pretty much my feelings as well. I don't run an AP until I can read the whole thing (or very close to it) so the map folio being released a the end of the campaign is no big deal to me.
I make considerable use of my map folios but I appear to be in a minority. If Paizo were to decide that AP linked map folios were not to be continued it would be a mild inconvenience and not the end of the world.
As an addendum, I want to say that I am looking forward to the Cities map folio. Specifically, I like the idea that all the maps are poster maps an they are all original.
I agree with this as well and so while I could live without map folios I hope the concept doesn't completely go away and the art need not be completely original or poster sized for it to be useful to me.
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I'm interested to hear opinions about the Pathfinder Chronicles Map Folios. So far we've got one released or slated for every announced Adventure Path, and another one filled exclusively with city map posters on the way.
Do you like this sort of thing? Would the world be torn asunder if they were not a regular feature?
I need to make some decisions about 2010, and I don't really have a sense of whether these are "working" or not.
Please help me determine this.
Thanks,
Erik
I understand why it comes after the AP is done, however it's not very useful for people that start running a given AP the moment it comes out. You know this already though.
The best feature is really the poster maps, the others I can print myself.
Just my 0.02 GP
I am an accessory who*e so my first impulse was to say I love this kind of product. But then I thought about it for a little while longer and I would like to say this:
- if there are only already published maps in the folios, I do not see much sense (esp. if the tags/doors/traps whatever are still there)
- if there are cool new maps or far superior maps (poster instead of a single page, high quality maps without DM stuff, extra new locations/venues of the AP...) - that's what I would be looking for
- map folios unrelated to APs, thematical like the one with cities (I think) being prepared - great idea because it means more new maps/background/setting details and in my book, there can never be too much of that ;)
Please excuse my English, it is really late here and I am very tired, but I felt like adding my 2c...
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Good: Cool poster maps of major locations in the AP (Cities, Local Areas). Very helpful for players and DM in visualizing the area, scale, distance. And they're neato.
Neutral: DM friendly prints of the dungeons and encounter areas. Helpful in that I don't have to flip back and forth in the main AP book, but as a subscriber, I could just print out the map page I need anyway...
Suggestions: Reproductions of Handouts (ransom notes, crude maps, etc.)
Player Friendly Maps (no secret doors or areas)
Miniature Scaled Maps of Major Encounter Locations (This would be for an area the players are going to spend a lot of time in or have repeated encounters in - Foxglove Manor, the casino in Second Darkness, etc.)
Monster Cards (Cards with the monster illustrated on one side, and a stat summary on the other. Particularly useful for new monsters introduced in the AP which the party will definitely encounter - like the Unchosen Ones from House of the Beast).
NPC Cards (For major NPC's who appear regularly in an AP - say Shelelu from Rise of the Rune Lords. Would have illustration on one side, and stats or role playing info on the other side.)
Paper Miniatures! (Great area to expand on this idea, particularly with AP specific monsters.)
Just a few thoughts. Thanks for your consideration.
Paper Miniatures!
Linkied!
The Map Folios and Harrow deck are the only product I regularly return, want to return but don't deal with the hassle, or actually cancel from my shipment when I remember to do so. The Map Folios because they're redundant and not very useful for the price, and the deck because the art just wasn't my style (I do at least generally love the art of the maps).
As mentioned previously, and Art Folio would be much more useful, or NPC cards with a player-friendly pic on the front and game stats on the back, or the mother-of-all-options PDF of battle-map scale printable maps.
Pulling these from my subscription would make me very happy, even if the line is continued. Having campaign-relevant flip-mats in their place would be even more awesome...
I like them a lot. The world wouldnt be torn asunder, but I'd be disappointed if they disappeared...
I don't like them since I already get all the maps in the APs and don't feel the loose maps add any value to my game. I would rather see a different product in place of the folios (at least as part of the subscriptions).
My views are pretty much in line with erian_7's:
The Map Folios and Harrow deck are the only product I regularly return, want to return but don't deal with the hassle, or actually cancel from my shipment when I remember to do so. The Map Folios because they're redundant and not very useful for the price, and the deck because the art just wasn't my style (I do at least generally love the art of the maps).
As mentioned previously, and Art Folio would be much more useful, or NPC cards with a player-friendly pic on the front and game stats on the back, or the mother-of-all-options PDF of battle-map scale printable maps.
Pulling these from my subscription would make me very happy, even if the line is continued. Having campaign-relevant flip-mats in their place would be even more awesome...
You'd still getting maps from the cartographers, this is really just a little data manipulation of the maps you have to provide anyway. That is what you'd be charging your customers a couple bucks for...Uhm.
Actually, it would be a helluva lot more for the cartographers to do - both in designing the maps and in creating the files they submit. This isn't toggling a little switch to make secret doors and hidden areas disappear, this is radically changing the way in which the maps are built, from the ground up.
I don't disagree that there would be work involved, but if you've ever pulled the images out of a PDF, you'll know that the room tags and secret doors are already in layers. Putting them in separate layers may be more difficult, but the base, unmarked, map is already in the PDF now.
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I will continue to purchase as-is. I like maps in general. I was never more excited than when the huge Greyhawk map was coming out quadrant by quadrant in Dungeon (Dragon)? I don't have access to a nice color printer or laminator without paying. And I don't like the thought of paying twice for my maps. (once when I buy the PDF, again when I print/laminate).
I wish I had all (or more) of the maps in the AP.
I'd prefer no labels on the maps.
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As mentioned previously, and Art Folio would be much more useful...
I've seen this a couple times now and I have to ask: how is an art folio (presumably, print-outs of the art from an AP) different from a map folio?
If a map folio comprised of reprinted maps from the AP, is useless and redundant, how is an art folio, comprised of art from the AP, not useless and redundant? I don't understand this logic. Maybe I'm simply misunderstanding your meaning of "art folio," but wouldn't that be just like a map folio, except filled with art?
I would be against such a product for the same reason I don't like the map folios: I already have the art. I can extract it and drop it into power point myself. I don't really need to pay Paizo $10 to do that for me.
-Skeld
They get a little use in our group, but would be better if they were player friendly. I could live without them but if they were replaced I'd like to see another relatively inexpensive item.
I like sowhereaminow's suggestion for player handouts. This would save me some ink.
I would also suggest NPC artwork as well. Images of the NPCs really solidify characters in the path for my players, especially if we go a few weeks without a session. I print them from the pdfs and they make notes about the NPCs on the printouts.
The City Map folio and location maps are good.
As mentioned previously, and Art Folio would be much more useful...I've seen this a couple times now and I have to ask: how is an art folio (presumably, print-outs of the art from an AP) different from a map folio?
If a map folio comprised of reprinted maps from the AP, is useless and redundant, how is an art folio, comprised of art from the AP, not useless and redundant? I don't understand this logic. Maybe I'm simply misunderstanding your meaning of "art folio," but wouldn't that be just like a map folio, except filled with art?
I would be against such a product for the same reason I don't like the map folios: I already have the art. I can extract it and drop it into power point myself. I don't really need to pay Paizo $10 to do that for me.
-Skeld
Presumably, this is because the art is more useful as a handout. The DM is the only person who ever sees the whole map. But artwork can be handed across the table saying 'you see this'. Sure, if you have the PDF, you can do it youself, but not everyone running the APs is a subscriber.
Presumably, this is because the art is more useful as a handout. The DM is the only person who ever sees the whole map. But artwork can be handed across the table saying 'you see this'. Sure, if you have the PDF, you can do it youself, but not everyone running the APs is a subscriber.
Correct, at least for me. I can print the art out and use it as-is at 8.5x11. I've actually got the PDFs (Supersubscriber and all), but cutting down the hassle and ink cartridge burn of having to print out the NPCs, monsters and such would interest me.
for those that say... hey I can can print these maps..
$10 for these maps is cheaper then the ink it would cost to replace the ink used in the printer.
That said... What I said in other posts what I would like to make these more useful, still holds.
True, I can buy them cheaper than I can print them, but the one's I buy are useless for my purposes, i.e. dropping in front of the players as a battle map. For the large fold-out maps like cities and such, I can actually print those at 24"x48" through a friend (and even on canvas if I really want it to last, as I did with my Golarion map).
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Please help me determine this.They are one item in the subscription that get no use from me whatsoever. I think the last two aren't even opened, they just sit on the shelf staring at my with their soulless map filled eyes.
What he said.
The only reason I have them is because they are part of the subscription, but I would be happy if they weren't in it.
If they were different from the maps in the APs, especially if they were battlemaps or new maps (like the proposed city folio) then I would be excited to get them. But currently it is decidedly ho-hum.
HERE'S WHAT I'D LIKE INSTEAD-
How about an inexpensive PDF Only Product, with layers that I can toggle on and off. I believe you can do this, and someone with Reader can just toggle the laters on and off that they want to see.
I can understand those who want high quality battle maps and handouts. However, most of my playing is online on forums or chatrooms, so I have little use for large scale posters or maps. Thus I have not purchased the subscription and tend to get PDF only products.
For me, I would be much more interested in a digital product along the lines of what Watcher described.
In fact, while we're on this little wish list fantasy, I'd love to see a Google Maps or Google Earth version of Golarian.
I am definately the DM who loved and misses the Map of Mystery feature. I am also a miniature painting DM who buys maps for the excuse to make the players appreciate my beautiful minis. Like other DMs, I am excited about the city maps. Even if city maps have a legend, I make up what the buildings are based on what they look like. I have never bought the maps, since my players are used to playing without such aides and like to make it up in their own minds anyway.
My second camp of gamers, the newb group, likes the tiles from WoTC. They like the "effects" tiles that look like spells or fire for those sort of occurances. It helps them remember all the things that are going on. I like the tiles, since they are reusable. Maybe some key locations for each AP in tiles? I would likely subscribe to the tile maps if such an option existed.
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Paper Miniatures!Linkied!
Hee! Thanks for the link. :D
Alright. Onto the question at hand. I've only picked up one of the map packs (Curse of the Crimson Throne as an impulse buy at a local hobby store), not knowing exactly what was going to be in it. Like a few other folks, I'm sure, there was a part of me that hoped the pack would include a big fold-out map of at least the final boss room for the AP or something (which I know now is expensive to do, and besides, we've got WorldWorks Games for that now, to which I am endlessly grateful). When I found out it was just remakes of the maps that are already in the AP, with two (admittedly appreciated) foldout maps for Varisia and Korvosa, I was disappointed. I still use it as a reference when drawing maps on the battlemat or to reference where rooms or hallways attach, since it's easier for me to have the map separate for that. But as others have pointed out, I could just print that straight from the PDF (in fact, I've done this with Legacy of Fire a couple of times).
This has been rehashed a few times in earlier posts, but I'm really tired right now and therefore too lazy to list off names of folks that had the same or a similar suggestion. But what I'd love to see from this product line are things like the upcoming City map pack, where it's useful outside of the AP (or even not attached to an AP at all), as well as within. Heck, I'm one of those weirdos who likes the idea of looking at a city map, picking a building that looks interesting, and saying, "that's the building my character grew up in!" And then drawing a layout of said building, and making up fellow tenants who also lived in that building...
But I digress. An additional idea that I think would have some backing (since, again, people have mentioned this earlier in the thread) is map packs that are region-specific. Even if it's something we've seen before, a map pack of, say, Varisia with fold-out maps of the major cities/settlements (Sandpoint, Magnimar, Korvosa, Riddleport, Kaer Maga) would be great. As you guys further expand what regions you've covered, you could expand the map line, and I know I, for one, would be right there to lap them up. I've got a wall in the living room just waiting to be covered in Golarion cartography.
Now, I'm not too sure exactly how many maps will be coming out and how frequently they'd be worked on, so that plan may not be feasible; after all, what's the point of putting out map packs at irregular intervals? At the very least, if the City pack goes off like gangbusters, I'd consider making a second one (with an associated book, of course).
But yeah. AP-specific map packs are a redundant product.
Though sheets with all the NPC art would be sweet. Or possibly a deck-like object similar to the AP item cards. Picture on front, blank space on back. Hand it to the PCs and let them make notes about the NPC that they want to remember so when they meet that NPC again, there's their face and all the details they wanted to remember about them (I actually tried to do this myself by drawing all the NPCs on individual notecards, but went briefly insane trying to make them all pretty and gave up). I have no idea how feasible this might be, but something about it feels kinda fun, so maybe it's worth looking into.
Just a thought.
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Though sheets with all the NPC art would be sweet. Or possibly a deck-like object similar to the AP item cards. Picture on front, blank space on back. Hand it to the PCs and let them make notes about the NPC that they want to remember so when they meet that NPC again, there's their face and all the details they wanted to remember about them (I actually tried to do this myself by drawing all the NPCs on individual notecards, but went briefly insane trying to make them all pretty and gave up). I have no idea how feasible this might be, but something about it feels kinda fun, so maybe it's worth looking into.
What? Something like this?
I do not purchase them as part of a subscription, nor do I currently purchase them singly. I would purchase them if they were (like many folks have said) untagged and easily usable as battlemats.
I do not believe that one can ever have too many maps, but I think that the niche that these products (as is) fill is presently a very small one.
I'm interested to hear opinions about the Pathfinder Chronicles Map Folios. So far we've got one released or slated for every announced Adventure Path, and another one filled exclusively with city map posters on the way.Do you like this sort of thing? Would the world be torn asunder if they were not a regular feature?
I consider them, as they are, to be useless - for much of the same reasons as everyone else who said they were useless. [And note that I am not a subscriber - I get all my APs from Amazon.ca - and thus don't have the PDFs to print out (and I hate PDFs anyways), and I still consider the map folios to be useless.]
However, poster maps are another thing entirely. If the AP-related map folios were made up entirely of poster maps, consisting of all the cities and towns, as well as 1" scale gridded battle maps of all the most important as well as most complicated areas, then I'd be very much interested. Just looking at Second Darkness, having a poster map for Riddleport, Devil's Elbow island, Celwynvian, Zirnakaynin [oh god, especially Zirnakaynin, in which the teeny-tiny map in the AP was virtually unacceptable], Kyonin, and the Land of Black Blood, etc, would have been a god-send.
I will very likely get the Cities of Golarion Map Folio due to the maps being entirely poster maps (city poster maps, at that, which I consider to be the best form of poster map).
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I'm interested to hear opinions about the Pathfinder Chronicles Map Folios. So far we've got one released or slated for every announced Adventure Path, and another one filled exclusively with city map posters on the way.Do you like this sort of thing? Would the world be torn asunder if they were not a regular feature?I consider them, as they are, to be useless - for much of the same reasons as everyone else who said they were useless. [And note that I am not a subscriber - I get all my APs from Amazon.ca - and thus don't have the PDFs to print out (and I hate PDFs anyways), and I still consider the map folios to be useless.]
However, poster maps are another thing entirely. If the AP-related map folios were made up entirely of poster maps, consisting of all the cities and towns, as well as 1" scale gridded battle maps of all the most important as well as most complicated areas, then I'd be very much interested. Just looking at Second Darkness, having a poster map for Riddleport, Devil's Elbow island, Celwynvian, Zirnakaynin [oh god, especially Zirnakaynin, in which the teeny-tiny map in the AP was virtually unacceptable], Kyonin, and the Land of Black Blood, etc, would have been a god-send.
I will very likely get the Cities of Golarion Map Folio due to the maps being entirely poster maps (city poster maps, at that, which I consider to be the best form of poster map).
The Second Darkness map folio had a poster map of Zirnakaynin. Just so you know :)
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For those suggesting NPC cards/sheets: you might check out these.
How do I keep missing these things?! :P
Erik, I'm really glad you asked about the map folios! I personally DO NOT LIKE THEM, and I've been waiting for a chance to vent about it. Out of my Adventure Path, Companion, and Chronicles subscriptions, they're the ONLY items I don't want.
Each time a map folio has come up, I've called to cancel my subscription and then started it up again once the next item was available. I'm sorry if doing that is bending the rules, so to speak, but I refuse to pay for something I don't want. I will say that having to do it that way has been a pain in the @$$, though!
As someone who simply likes to read and "explore" the fascinating world of Golarion (I don't gm), I have absolutely no need of the map folios. The same, smaller maps from the AP issues themselves are sufficient for my needs. Please consider removing them from the line-up. Thanks! ~Chad
P.S. No offense to those of you who like the map folios! :)
I don't much care for the map folios. They just repeat what's in the AP.
I would much rather get something new -or- some maps I can use with the minis.
For those suggesting NPC cards/sheets: you might check out these.
Yay! Finally a product I've been dreaming of for so long :D
I agree with alot of the posters here but perhaps not as harshley as some. The mapfolios work fine so that I don't have to flip back and forth while gamemastering but I'm acctually kind of used to that by now.
However, the map folio with city maps might be realy good since that wont be previously released maps (am I right?). It might acctually help when I want to write my own adventures in pathfinder somewhere where you haven't put an AP. So I guess I'll wait for this folio before I go and say that I don't want them at all.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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I suppose I'll have to be contrarion and put forth that I get a lot of use out of the map folios as is. It's nice to not be stuck flipping back and forth to reference, and I'd probably print out the maps myself from the PDFs if the folios didn't exist. However, I'd get even more use out of some nice poster maps, so...
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Very very useful feedback. The forthcoming City Map Folio is an experiment with a new poster-only format.
This thread has confirmed many of my suspicions.
Thanks, as always, for the thoughtful answers.
I haven't commented until now, because everyone has pretty much voiced my feelings on map folios already with regards utility and paying for something twice.
I'm very much looking forward to the City Map Folio. The poster-sized city maps were pretty much the only thing I've used from the Adventure Path map folios.
I take poster-sized maps straight to my local print shop for lamination. We play RotRL with a laminated map of Sandpoint permanently on the table, and CotCT with the Korvosa laminated map permanently on the table, for easy reference. These are second only to Flip-maps as my preferred map format.
I haven't been a fan of the map-packs, as the card size is too thin and small to be really useful. However the recent Water-front map-pack and flip-mat combo has aroused my interest, as to how the map tiles might be used to expand or modify the flip-mat.
I have enjoyed using flip-mats when running Pathfinder Society scenarios (eg, flip-mat Theatre for Among the Living) and others where appropriate, even if they're not exact matches (eg flip-mat Woodlands using the river-edge as the cliff-edge in Silent Tide; flip-mat Darklands for the Ettercap cavern, etc).
I think flip-mat/Pathfinder-Society-Scenario tie-ins have been very successful, and would like to see flip-mats feature more in Adventure Paths.
I think flip-mats and poster-sized City Map Folios could replace much of what the Adventure Path map folios used to cover.
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I get no use out of the map folios. I don't run the APs (in the process fo completing War of the Burning Sky) and they won't be much use when I do, since they'd mainly be used as player maps, but most of them have spoilers.
Money is tight at the moment, and I've cancelled my modules and companion subscriptions. I'm taking a long, hard look at my chronicles subscription, and if the map folios were removed or improved I'd be more likely to keep it.
The city map folio, on the other hand, is a great idea. Can never have too many city poster maps.
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While it is always cool to have maps, I normally use to copy the ,maps out of the pdf file, even if I have the map folio.
Maybe you can cancel the whole map folios and give us a better resolution in the pdfs, or put all maps into the back of a pdf file...
This! I find I never acess my poor map folios. They even come in too late and I've already creatred my own poster-sized maps of frequently visited places after all. Map folios are OK, but I wish they weren't part of my subscription.
-DM Jeff
The Second Darkness map folio had a poster map of Zirnakaynin. Just so you know :)
*grin* I had my suspicions from a previous post in this thread - thanks for the confirmation!
While the price of the map folios would hardly justify me grabbing it to get the poster map of Zirnakaynin, I can't say I don't have this sickness and am not still tempted... :D
(Though note that I do consider it to be somewhat crap that the only way to get the Katapesh city poster map is to buy the LoF map folio, as opposed to being in the actual city book, where it belongs. Bad bad bad Paizo for inappropriately spreading AP material out like that.)
Hmmm. I will say they've proven valuable to my games in the past, sure they don't come out until after the AP is published but my players love it when I can whip out a map that has no Trap or Secret Doors symbols on it. They're also nice to have when you want to avoid switching back and forth between pages or volumes of a pathfinder module. All in all, in my perfect little world they would continue on. However, of all the regular features of the various Pathfinder products they would likely be the one I'd be least sad to see go. If need be I can print my own maps with a little effort but I love the convenience the map packs provide.
I will add, they are not just for AP usage, I've used various maps from the map packs for many other games. Alderns townhouse in Rise of the Runelords was great for a townhouse that some rogues were trying to break into in a Thieves Guild game I'm running. City maps and other generic or multi-use maps are always nice, Foxglove Manor could see plenty of use as could many of the maps in Curse of the Crimson Throne and Second Darkness. So, while they are the one product I'd be least sad to see go I do have uses for them and I've been more than willing to put my money down for them. Then again, I thought the Treasure Chest was awesome (though the module included wasn't what I'd call top notch) and apparently that had terrible sales.
Anyway, just my two bits.
Doom