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I wouldn't mind seeing novels based off the adventure paths themselves... I think one reason the Dragonlance Cronicles were so big was the players of the adventures could read their heros stories or just compare their experiences to those in the novel.
Besides I'd love to see those goblins go nuts in a book.
Wow, aaaah, wow. Dumbfounded. That is a real good idea. It is an insanely good idea. I am in shock that we didn't think of that. I will contemplate that for quite a few days. Why not? Duh! Someone hit me with a brick. Moorluck, Rise of the Runelords Novel will be my summer pet project. Pathfinders of Qadira has been very grueling, but this will captivate my attention for months to come.
You sold me. I will ask the folks at Paizo about this at PaizoCon.
Zuxius
??? Did I miss somthin' here ???
Whilst most game fiction is also pretty bad...
Not all game fiction novels are bad... ;)
I only ever read the FR stuff and some Ravenloft, and I enjoyed most of it. Sure, some books were crap, but on the other hand, some were really good.
I sure enjoyed many of them more than stuff like, say, Lankhmar. It all boils down to taste.
As for writing our own Pathfinder fiction: I think this is covered under the community use license. You could write something and then put it online - you just can't charge anything for it.
Definitely agree with the FASA reference - some pretty good stuff for Shadowrun and Battletech. GW is far more hazy - a couple of good ones, but pretty similar to most WotC stuff, IMHO.
AJC
Just yesterday I was again told the horror story of one warhammer novel where the lazy author just gave everyone German words as "names" - the hero's horse was called Pferd (German for horse), his mentor Lehrer (= teacher), and his female interest Lästiges Weibchen (Annoying Female).
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It must be time for me to mention how incredibly awful nearly every TSR/WotC novel is (including Gygax's; Jesus wept). Whilst most game fiction is also pretty bad, TSR and WotC plumbed the utter godamned depths (I haven't read MTG fiction, so maybe that's even worse). Both GW and FASA managed to get far better books written.
Well, for me, RPG Novels started with Dragonlance Chronicles. They were the first, I believe.
The sweeping changes in that world made for very dynamic stories. So dynamic in fact, that I was swept away as a reader. This was the reason I wanted to write. Those novels were warm with characters and full of events that were truly epic. TSR was onto something there. I give them full credit for that.
Now, fast forward to today. Eberron novels. The obvious accumulation of what RPG novels aspired to become. Vomit. No warmth and ineffectual stories. The books were just showpieces for the setting. If that were how Dragonlance Chronicles debuted, I would have never read another RPG novel again.
I am not a fan of stagnant water, nor do I believe that destroying a world is productive either. I just like worlds that have the potential to change and move. I like to see different eras and climactic events. Perhaps that is why I am more interested in a novel being set in Golarion's past. At least from there, things do change. Major powers that be, do fall.
Star Wars has that. It has a history of change that can offer a writer a great canvas.
Pathfinder in its current time is untouchable. You can't make a difference. It will be the same when you are done, reading or writing. Perhaps I missed out on the standardized guidelines of "How an author must write an RPG Novel". Perhaps Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis skipped that one too. I bet you can also find a concession in today's industry that those two didn't write an RPG novel. So, if they pioneered it, did it fail? Has anyone taken a gander at why those books still sell? I know not everyone likes the books, but more people like them than not.
I guess I can’t forgive RPG novels for losing the original dynamic that Dragonlance Chronicles spearheaded. Epic storytelling.
In contrast, todays RPG Novel writer is a lap dog to a setting. They must funnel down a specific path. You either create a sub-world that you can do whatever you want with or you create great characters that interact with the finer points of the setting, but remain miniscule in the big picture. "Saving the world" books are trite and disliked by all, because the outcome is certain.
A great writer can write a masterpiece if they put their mind to it, regardless of hindrances. I understand that.
For myself, I like writing epics. I like the scale of major events and the situations it puts people in as to test the limits of the human spirit. I revel at that. Yes, it can happen at a small scale, but I do not desire that kind of reading/writing.
Something I learned after reading a few WotC RPG Novels is that they are strained reads. There is nothing epic about them. If they are epic, they end up chasing their tails. They failed miserably in addressing the readers need to feel something personal, something that applies to today. An author should try to offer somekind of pearl, right? Not just a deeper description for a place in “Sharn” that expands the Campaign Setting’s brief descriptor.
I know I have read a good book when I walk away with wonder and ideas. I also feel a book is done right when my time was well spent. That is my benchmark for what a book should be. Am I wrong to expect that from an RPG Novel? Is there a standard that must be adhered to, in order to preserve the canon of a RPG Setting? Are all RPG Novels small in nature now and pulpy?
I guess I am a dinosaur.
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??? Did I miss somthin' here ???Nothing more I need to know. I am on the case.
Ah the sarcasm aproach. (that never gets old)
Just tryin' to figure out what in my earlier post got you riled...or did I read that wrong?I do agree that a good novel should leave you with a sense of wonder and spark the imagination.The Dragonlance Cronicles did that for me,the earlier Realms stuff did as well but most of the newer stuff I've read just seems to be lacking and just leaves me feeling like I wasted my time and money.(The Lady Pentanant series especialy did)
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Ah the sarcasm aproach. (that never gets old)
Just tryin' to figure out what in my earlier post got you riled...or did I read that wrong?
I was worried that you would read it wrong. Sorry. No, no sarcasm. I hate snarky remarks.
More like blinded by the thought. It is such an idea that I really want to thank you. So stupid that I didn't think of it myself. Wondering if I should use the iconic characters or just new ones. To write such a thing would be insane. It would be a massive undertaking. Especially adapting. I guess I never thought of it because the Community Use Policy hadn't been released when I created the site.
Thank You.
Though I am not sure how I will feel once this undertaking begins. I might curse you in the end. On the otherhand, it might prove a lot.
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Ah the sarcasm aproach. (that never gets old)
Just tryin' to figure out what in my earlier post got you riled...or did I read that wrong?I was worried that you would read it wrong. Sorry. No, no sarcasm. I hate snarky remarks.
More like blinded by the thought. It is such an idea that I really want to thank you. So stupid that I didn't think of it myself. Wondering if I should use the iconic characters or just new ones. To write such a thing would be insane. It would be a massive undertaking. Especially adapting. I guess I never thought of it because the Community Use Policy hadn't been released when I created the site.
Thank You.
Though I am not sure how I will feel once this undertaking begins. I might curse you in the end. On the otherhand, it might prove a lot.
But at least novels based on the APs would have the advantage of being great stories with the risk of "Oh No! the worlds gonna end if my kid brother doesn't use his incredible powers to stop the demon/devil/dragon lich/evil emperor..." wich I really despise in a story. It would also be a good chance to develop those Iconics. But hey I'm not a writer so...
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I guess that the first 'game fiction' of sorts was Quag Keep by Andre Norton; Dragonlance was the first stuff brought out by rpg publishers, thouogh, I think.
I loved the Dragonlance novels when they came out. Mind you, I was about 13. Last time I re-read them I discovered that they seemed, well, sort of completely crap as novels, although they were still evocative as introductions to the new game world (of course, not so new anymore). And yet I agree that they remain amongst the very best of the D&D novels, which rather summarises my problems with D&D novels.
Some of the GW novels, at least of the early ones, were written by genuinely good authors, people like Brian Stableford and Kim Newman; these really are good, talented, authors who were hired because of that (well, that and their need for money, but such is the life of the author). It may have meant that they didn't hew too closely to the setting and the game rules where it was inappropriate from the storytelling point of view, but that's fine, I think. A few of the TSR/WotC authors were pretty good (the late, alas, Nigel Findley, for example) but even the authors who had some talent seemed to be dialling it in for the D&D novels. Was the pay too low, or the deadlines too tight?
I love fantasy fiction, but it so often disappoints. Game fiction is about the most disappointing subset of it. There are often other reasons to read it, such as familiarising oneself with the game world and keeping up with the continuity (this has been the reason for me continuing to read the appalling FR fiction, up until the point where the setting changes for 4e have blessedly released me from that compulsion to self-harming). Given that there's no intrinsic reason that it can't be good to read as well, it's a shame that so little of it is and TSR and WotC fiction is the worst (in my experience; FASA and GW also have some terrible fiction -- Loren Coleman, I'm looking at you -- but at least some of it was well-written).
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Game fiction is about the most disappointing subset of it. There are often other reasons to read it, such as familiarising oneself with the game world and keeping up with the continuity (this has been the reason for me continuing to read the appalling FR fiction, up until the point where the setting changes for 4e have blessedly released me from that compulsion to self-harming). Given that there's no intrinsic reason that it can't be good to read as well, it's a shame that so little of it is and TSR and WotC fiction is the worst (in my experience; FASA and GW also have some terrible fiction -- Loren Coleman, I'm looking at you -- but at least some of it was well-written).
That is why I am not for tried and true RPG Novels, because, for the most part....they are not tried and in most cases not true. They are a faulty part of the gaming industry and an embarrassment to fantasy. We need something better. Paizo has always met or exceeded my expectations. I am not sure what their direction is, but I have faith in this bunch. The kind of faith Moses had in knowing there is a God.
What I do know is that Erik Mona is well read. He has taken Planet Stories to heart and he is understanding to what it takes to launch this franchise. This makes me very optimistic for the success of the Pathfinder RPG Novel line.
I am just a tad worried that they will overcome this broken RPG Novel model through the use of sheer talent. In the end, only a very excellent driver can make a broken car do things. A mediocre driver will get mired in all kinds of problems. However, with the right "model" for the Novels, there could be something very successful to be had. I have no idea what that "model" could be, but it would be nice if they revolutionized the RPG Novel industry instead of trying to navigate its short comings.
Now, I am not saying they should create a platform so mediocre writers can get their foot in the door, but rather a way to produce successful novels regardless who is at the helm.
Science fiction and fantasy novels rarely get an opportunity to take a serious corner of the fiction world's eyes. Paizo is uniquely poised to take the lead in this type of gendre. I consider their success in the Pathfinder RPG Novels to be extremely important.
Can they do it?
I wonder what Bob the Builder would say?
Director of Brand Strategy
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I wouldn't mind seeing novels based off the adventure paths themselves... I think one reason the Dragonlance Cronicles were so big was the players of the adventures could read their heros stories or just compare their experiences to those in the novel.
Besides I'd love to see those goblins go nuts in a book.
Wow, aaaah, wow. Dumbfounded. That is a real good idea. It is an insanely good idea. I am in shock that we didn't think of that. I will contemplate that for quite a few days. Why not? Duh! Someone hit me with a brick. Moorluck, Rise of the Runelords Novel will be my summer pet project. Pathfinders of Qadira has been very grueling, but this will captivate my attention for months to come.
You sold me. I will ask the folks at Paizo about this at PaizoCon.
Zuxius
Keep in mind that novelizing the events and plot of an adventure path might be a violation of the Community Use Policy. While the setting, some artwork, and the use of proper nouns like deities and major NPCs are open under the policy, I don't believe that situations and events are. But IANAL and I might be misunderstanding the policy.
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(I haven't read MTG fiction, so maybe that's even worse).
Their first few books (the ones that came with free cards) weren't bad, but they were more open for the writers, IE.. The characters were the author's own creations, and they gave much more interesting reasons for the various card types and game mechanics (these also used a much better variety of cards than the later books). Once they made the authors use the characters from the game, and flesh out the 5 page summery of what happens during each expansion instead of creating their own stories, the books went downhill.
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It's surprising that more Pathfinders haven't submitted. Maybe they've been writing for Lillith's Fanzine. But now it's time to go to Pathfinder Chronicler. Keep writing so I can keep reading! Only YOU can share those awesome thoughts that are now in only your head or played out in only your game. SHARE!
we have another 3 lines in store: Zux, Charles D. and Kor have stories that either need one more edit or we are waiting for the last version... so they haven't being published. I hope they do soon... the 3 of them are quite interesting.
and thanks for the comment Laserray
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I wouldn't mind seeing novels based off the adventure paths themselves... I think one reason the Dragonlance Cronicles were so big was the players of the adventures could read their heros stories or just compare their experiences to those in the novel.
Besides I'd love to see those goblins go nuts in a book.
Wow, aaaah, wow. Dumbfounded. That is a real good idea. It is an insanely good idea. I am in shock that we didn't think of that. I will contemplate that for quite a few days. Why not? Duh! Someone hit me with a brick. Moorluck, Rise of the Runelords Novel will be my summer pet project. Pathfinders of Qadira has been very grueling, but this will captivate my attention for months to come.
You sold me. I will ask the folks at Paizo about this at PaizoCon.
Zuxius
lol
its NOT that I didn't thought about it...BUT!!!
read the Pathfinder Community deal... we can base the stories around those places... maybe saying something pasing about it... but we CAN'T use the storyline of the adventure...
it would be interesting to read about a couple of characters (no t the heroes of the AP) surviving the goblin's atack, and it woudl be fun... or oter heroes with les glory going directly against another of the tribes... and that is not the only place to use golarion goblins...
unfortunately we can't use what happened in thos Adventure Paths because that is beyond what is permisible...
Jordan already has some line in Rise of the Runelords, but due to this I need to write a different story...
Natalia is in Korvosa during the events, and I will mention a few secundary events, but not the main story.
I only ever read the FR stuff and some Ravenloft, and I enjoyed most of it. Sure, some books were crap, but on the other hand, some were really good.
same here I love the Ravenloft novels
ok not all of them were great... and most of them even when dealing with some of the mega characters and villians of the setting are not epic... they are just great horror stories.
Ed Greenwood and Elaine would be my top two choices. Then Erik Scott de Bie, Paul S. Kemp, and Richard Lee Byers. And Steven Schend, of course! :)
As it turns out, we know all of those folks.
Without spoiling anything (and I don't necessarily even HAVE details to spoil at this point, so don't read too much into this), I think you're going to be quite pleased with Pathfinder Fiction...
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Ed Greenwood and Elaine would be my top two choices. Then Erik Scott de Bie, Paul S. Kemp, and Richard Lee Byers. And Steven Schend, of course! :)
As it turns out, we know all of those folks.
Without spoiling anything (and I don't necessarily even HAVE details to spoil at this point, so don't read too much into this), I think you're going to be quite pleased with Pathfinder Fiction...
Wait, Elaine Cunningham might write something for Pathfinder? Where can I get that?
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As it turns out, we know all of those folks.Without spoiling anything (and I don't necessarily even HAVE details to spoil at this point, so don't read too much into this), I think you're going to be quite pleased with Pathfinder Fiction...
Not if it involves some of them, I won't be (although Cunningham and Greenwood between them wrote one of the better more recent FR books). But such is life: disappointment.
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Here's the answer to the idea of creating a novel based on APs. Sounded nice when it was suggested, but it makes sense. Spoilers are a factor. I remember telling my players that they couldn't read Dragonlance Chronicles! Never! They missed out on it, but they can still do the DL Modules if we get around to it in the next, eeer, decade..
Here is the official word.
Nope—while you can reference trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, artifacts, places, etc.), locations and characters from products listed in Section 1 of our Community Use Approved Product List in fan fiction, you can only reference dialogue, plots, storylines, language, and incidents from the products in campaign journals and play-by-post or play-by-email games.Is it possible under the Community Use Policy to write a fan-based book about RotRL AP. As in, using the Paizo provided characters and using the AP as an Outline to tell the story??
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Here's the answer to the idea of creating a novel based on APs. Sounded nice when it was suggested, but it makes sense. Spoilers are a factor. I remember telling my players that they couldn't read Dragonlance Chronicles! Never! They missed out on it, but they can still do the DL Modules if we get around to it in the next, eeer, decade..
Here is the official word.
Nope—while you can reference trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, artifacts, places, etc.), locations and characters from products listed in Section 1 of our Community Use Approved Product List in fan fiction, you can only reference dialogue, plots, storylines, language, and incidents from the products in campaign journals and play-by-post or play-by-email games.Is it possible under the Community Use Policy to write a fan-based book about RotRL AP. As in, using the Paizo provided characters and using the AP as an Outline to tell the story??
Oh well...it woulda been nice but hey maybe someday it'll happen,with Paizos permision of course,after RoTRL is considered a "classic".
I'd also add Monte Cook and Bruce Cordell to my wish list of Pathfinder authors. Monte's few D&D and Darkmatter novels were great, and I just finished Bruce's Darkvision FR novel, which was really good.
For Cordell, I'm pretty sure that WotC has some sort of non-compete clause going on. But I could be wrong.
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I'd also add Monte Cook and Bruce Cordell to my wish list of Pathfinder authors. Monte's few D&D and Darkmatter novels were great, and I just finished Bruce's Darkvision FR novel, which was really good.For Cordell, I'm pretty sure that WotC has some sort of non-compete clause going on. But I could be wrong.
It pays, not to be discovered!
Wait, Elaine Cunningham might write something for Pathfinder? Where can I get that?
Legacy of Fire?
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I'd also add Monte Cook and Bruce Cordell to my wish list of Pathfinder authors. Monte's few D&D and Darkmatter novels were great, and I just finished Bruce's Darkvision FR novel, which was really good.For Cordell, I'm pretty sure that WotC has some sort of non-compete clause going on. But I could be wrong.
That would only be in effect as long as he continues to work for WoTC. The way things are going there, who knows how long that will be before another round of layoffs.
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Ed Greenwood and Elaine would be my top two choices. Then Erik Scott de Bie, Paul S. Kemp, and Richard Lee Byers. And Steven Schend, of course! :)
As it turns out, we know all of those folks.
Without spoiling anything (and I don't necessarily even HAVE details to spoil at this point, so don't read too much into this), I think you're going to be quite pleased with Pathfinder Fiction...
Ooh... you're a shameless teaser... but you just managed to make me VERY happy! :D
Have I ever mentioned that I love you guys?
I've got about 60 pages of one set in Varisia. Two characters, 10th level, who meet by happenstance. They don't get along that well, but there's some mutual respect. I hope to serialize it someday, if the story is good enough.
They need to go to Ustalav, but there are some loose ends to tie up in a mining town. I'll send a PDF of what I got to anybody who wants to check it out. Be brutal!
Not sure if sharing contact info is kosher, so I'll check back in a while to see how or if I can do that here.
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I know that I would love to see some Pathfinder Novels, I'm new to Pathinfder and have picked up a few books here and there (love everything so far). A few novels would help give me a good feel for the world and I love the iconic characters and think that they are worthy of having some of their stories told (who wouldn't want to read about a grumpy Dwarf Ranger and his badger?). So I put my vote in for getting some novels put on the shelves.
I know that I would love to see some Pathfinder Novels, I'm new to Pathinfder and have picked up a few books here and there (love everything so far). A few novels would help give me a good feel for the world and I love the iconic characters and think that they are worthy of having some of their stories told (who wouldn't want to read about a grumpy Dwarf Ranger and his badger?). So I put my vote in for getting some novels put on the shelves.
Yeah same here. I can't wait to buy those books to my favorite setting as well.
...I think you're going to be quite pleased with Pathfinder Fiction...Ooh... you're a shameless teaser... but you just managed to make me VERY happy! :D
Have I ever mentioned that I love you guys?
Ditto
I've got about 60 pages of one set in Varisia. Two characters, 10th level, who meet by happenstance. They don't get along that well, but there's some mutual respect. I hope to serialize it someday, if the story is good enough.
They need to go to Ustalav, but there are some loose ends to tie up in a mining town. I'll send a PDF of what I got to anybody who wants to check it out. Be brutal!
Not sure if sharing contact info is kosher, so I'll check back in a while to see how or if I can do that here.
Check out
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Hrm. Sounds interesting. The next time I have a bit of time I'll write something about this. I go mad if I don't write, so might as well do a piece that will be actually read by more than 2 or 3 people I know. And I happened to send a piece of a story to Wizards... the day they announced they weren't receiving any more submissions. So I'm willing to write, just give me time to know more about Golarion. When my credit card works, I'll get the setting to make better references of the world =)
And I think there's a balance between WSEs and dud stories. WSEs should be used sparingly and based on a campaign that happened. Honestly, I think long-time fans of Forgotten Realms were more than frustrated when they found out that this guy they had managed to stop suddenly became an epic character with thousands of followers and almost runs a country; character that makes half the story make sense. And then, a whole island or territory disappears; new kings are crowned out of the blue and suddenly, the magic goddess is killed for the gazillionth time.
On the other hand, I don't like the "well, this book might as well be skipped because none of this concerns the story of anyplace relevant" kind of stories.
In other words, I think that it'd be best if novels were more like a prelude for new adventures. For example, you read about a certain party that defeated a menace (not world-threatening), and when they left, they did so believing it was all over. Nonetheless, it would turn out later that they overlooked a small door covered by an illusion spell, such magic, after its duration, faded away. Pathfinders (PCs) are drawn to a new story and live a whole new adventure in a place they know without being told what will or could happen.
[Sorry if this is badly written, I'm half asleep now and thinking partially in spanish. I'll check grammar and such, but that'll be tomorrow.]
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Hrm. Sounds interesting. The next time I have a bit of time I'll write something about this. I go mad if I don't write, so might as well do a piece that will be actually read by more than 2 or 3 people I know. And I happened to send a piece of a story to Wizards... the day they announced they weren't receiving any more submissions. So I'm willing to write, just give me time to know more about Golarion. When my credit card works, I'll get the setting to make better references of the world =)
please do, any and all stories are welcome
and the thing between WSE y non-WSE is one of likings... as you said one needs a fine balance between both... at least me I know that as a player and DM I want to be the one changing the world, not hearing every 6 months that my next adventure was ruined because the place its not the same anymore :P