While playing in one of my PbPs this question came up during a zombie fight. In Pathfinder Rogues can now sneak attack undead, but are undead still immune to critical hits like in 3.5? Any help with this would be appreciated.
Thanks Erik!
That leaves the question if crit immunity was calculated into the CR. If yes, they might get something else in return. More HPs or better damage resistance (or channel energy resistance?) comes to mind.
My guess is the broad immunities undead have (or had) factored into the CR a bit. But I wouldn't expect the immunity to crits specifically to make the difference between one CR value and another. Keep in mind that they are still immune to a lot of other things.
Ah, I see, I assume incorporeal undead are still immune to criticals then.
That's a good question as well. I assume the characters in at least two of my games will be facing some sort of incorporeal undead soon. Does the doing away of critting immunity also hold with incorporeal undead?
That leaves the question if crit immunity was calculated into the CR. If yes, they might get something else in return. More HPs or better damage resistance (or channel energy resistance?) comes to mind.
I think the crit and sneak attack immunity was one of the things that balanced the low HP's of undead. Since they have removed this immunity they need to either recalculate the CR, or grant more HP to the undead, perhaps in form of a fixed HP buffer similar to that of constructs.
Yeah, and the channel energy is a killer! Turns a tough encounter into a cream puff.
On a tangental note ....
Anyone considered having different categories of animated undead? There have been a few in the past, but maybe different styles of animation, maybe higher level animate spells that get bonuses on the channel energy save? Any thoughts?
That leaves the question if crit immunity was calculated into the CR. If yes, they might get something else in return. More HPs or better damage resistance (or channel energy resistance?) comes to mind.I think the crit and sneak attack immunity was one of the things that balanced the low HP's of undead. Since they have removed this immunity they need to either recalculate the CR, or grant more HP to the undead, perhaps in form of a fixed HP buffer similar to that of constructs.
Well, now Undead add their Charisma bonus to each HD thay have (like a Constitution score).
"Note that undead use their Charisma bonus in place of their Constitution bonus when determining hit points (although skeletons, zombies, and other mindless undead should have their Charisma scores set to 10)." (page 296).
That leaves the question if crit immunity was calculated into the CR. If yes, they might get something else in return. More HPs or better damage resistance (or channel energy resistance?) comes to mind.I think the crit and sneak attack immunity was one of the things that balanced the low HP's of undead. Since they have removed this immunity they need to either recalculate the CR, or grant more HP to the undead, perhaps in form of a fixed HP buffer similar to that of constructs.Well, now Undead add their Charisma bonus to each HD thay have (like a Constitution score).
"Note that undead use their Charisma bonus in place of their Constitution bonus when determining hit points (although skeletons, zombies, and other mindless undead should have their Charisma scores set to 10)." (page 296).
So they have actually gone out and given every undead creature unholy toughness, I must have missed that when I read through the rules. Thanks for enlightening me. ;)
Funny thing is that I have house ruled this since I first learned about the unholy toughness ability.
So are undead no longer immune to critical hits? Because I know in the MM under undead it states that they are not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain or energy drain.
IMHO these immunities make undead even more dangerous (which I like as a DM).
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So are undead no longer immune to critical hits? Because I know in the MM under undead it states that they are not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain or energy drain.
IMHO these immunities make undead even more dangerous (which I like as a DM).
I think that to balance undead with the sneak attack and crit vulnerabilty, they are either going to have to multiply HP x3 (or more) or give some sort of very powerful spell like abilites. Both of these make undead really hard for everyone except the rogue, and it is just a terrible trade off. Crits I can see. Sneak attack just breaks the game.