Hi all
I ordered a copy of the pathfinder beta test and after looking through the book...I see there's no multi classing rules (after some forum searching I see this has been discussed).
We've been playing 2E in recent months, picking up from a 6-10 year hiatus of D&D.
I was looking to try a test campaign with pathfinder (not liking the look of 4E) but for someone that doesn't know 3.0/3.5...I have no idea what to do about multiclassing.
Is there going to be a multi-classing web expansion at some point? Or something like that...? Or should I pick up a 3.0/3.5 book to supplement? The beta doesn't even really mention it.
Thanks for any input.
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Multiclassing is easy in 3x. Unlike AD&D, you don't start as both classes, you pick one class. When you level up, you can chose another class. For example, say you start as a rogue. you have 8+int skill points, d8 + con (plus other stuff, depending on how you do it...)hp, a +0 fort, +2 reflex and +0 will saves, +0 to BAB and whatever class features you get. Now, say you want to multiclass in fighter. You just add one level in fighter when you level up. So, you get 2+int skill points, +2 fort, +0 reflex and +0 willsaves, +1 to BAB, d10 +con HP, and whatever class features you get.
You just pick whatever the next highest level in the class you want to level up in has. So, if you advance the above character, say, to ftr6/rog6, You'd add all the bonuses, hp, et cetera, from the charts for both classes at sixth level.
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You just pick whatever the next highest level in the class you want to level up in has. So, if you advance the above character, say, to ftr6/rog6, You'd add all the bonuses, hp, et cetera, from the charts for both classes at sixth level.
Maybe I misunderstood you? Because you don't add bonuses from *both* classes as you go up in levels -- you only choose which of the classes to advance, and modify the abilities, bonuses, and HPs according to that class's information.
If I understand correctly HD was speaking of going from a Ftr 1/Rog 1 up to a Ftr 6/ Rog 6 in one jump. In that case yes you would add all of the increases from each class. However, if you go from say a Ftr 6/ Rog 6 and are able to go up a level, then pick which class you wish to advance and apply that classes increases to hp, skill points, BAB, feats if allowed, etc to the class you choose.
OK, that seems clear enough.
What about weapon, armor, etc restrictions? Same as 2e as far as using abilities and such? Cleric weapon restrictions apply, Wizard armor restrictions apply for casting spells, etc?
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OK, that seems clear enough.
What about weapon, armor, etc restrictions? Same as 2e as far as using abilities and such? Cleric weapon restrictions apply, Wizard armor restrictions apply for casting spells, etc?
Similar, but not quite the same.
You get all the weapon, armor and shield proficiencies of all the classes you have levels in. A few classes have specific restrictions on the weapons & armor you can use.
Druids can't use metal armor or shields. Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers and to a lesser degree, bards) have to worry about a chance of spell failure if wearing armor, so they usually don't bother. Ranger's can only use certain abilities if wearing light armor or less. Monks can only use certain abilities when not wearing armor or using a shield.
Any restrictions will be spelled out in the class's description. (Though Arcane Spell Failure is explained in the Equipment chapter.)
OK, that seems clear enough.
What about weapon, armor, etc restrictions? Same as 2e as far as using abilities and such? Cleric weapon restrictions apply, Wizard armor restrictions apply for casting spells, etc?
Definitely need to grab yourself a 3.5 player's handbook or go to [url]www.d20srd.org[/url], there's some changes you'll want to know about.
Cleric's don't have weapons restrictions, but they only have proficiency in certain weapons. In 2E you took individual weapon proficiencies, in 3E/Pathfinder your class gives you several or most of them. If you want proficiency in a weapon not on your list, you can use a feat to learn it (martial weapon proficiency, exotic weapon proficiency), which is a lot like the 2E weapon proficiencies.
When you multiclass into a new class, you gain (never losing old ones) the weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies of the new class. So, if you were a 1st level cleric and you took your 2nd level in fighter (becoming cleric 1/fighter 1), you gain pretty much all weapon and armor proficiencies.
Wizards CAN cast in armor, however they have a percent chance to fail when doing so. A wizard 1/fighter 1 would still have the same percent chance to fail as a wizard 1 or even a wizard 2. The percentages are on the armor chart in the equipment section. Having your armor made out of mithral, or somesuch decreases the arcane spell failure check. Mithral, of course, is the material than elven chain mail is made out of.
Hi all
We've been playing 2E in recent months, picking up from a 6-10 year hiatus of D&D.
Is there going to be a multi-classing web expansion at some point? Or something like that...? Or should I pick up a 3.0/3.5 book to supplement? The beta doesn't even really mention it.
Congratulations on the switchover! It took me a while to embrace 3rd over my 1st edition campaign, but I think it was worth it in the long run.
There will probably be a web enhancement for multi-classing at some point (no announcement of this for the record). It wasn't included in the Beta because the 3rd edition multi-classing rules are not part of the SRD (thus not at d20srd.org). Also a) they didn't take the time to rewrite them in the rush to get the beta out, and b) they weren't sure what the rules *should* be yet. It's an area they could do a lot of fine-tuning on - such as changing how save bonuses stack up and such.
However, for the time being at least, the 3rd edition rules work fine.
Lots of good advice above in the thread. Multi-classing in 3.x is more like dual-classing in 1e/2e - you pick up the new class at a different time and advance it separately. The biggest difference is of course you can switch back and forth as you like, and all the bonuses stack on eachother (hit points, saving throw bonuses, skill points/max, etc.)
As HoustonDerek said above, just add together everything that two classes get at whatever levels you have them (1st cleric and 3rd fighter, 10th wizard and 2nd rogue, etc.).
Regular feats, ability score increases, and post importantly the XP it takes to gain a new level is all determined by your "character level" which is the sum total of your classes (10 Wiz + 2nd Rogue = 12th level).
For instance:
If you were a 6th level wizard, you would have 3 general feats (from 1st, 3rd, and 5th level), +3 Base Attack Bonus, +2 Fortitude and Reflex base save bonuses, and +5 Will base save bonus. You'd also have 6d6 hitpoints (plus 6*con) (First die is maxed actually), and 1 ability score increase from 4th level. 2 third level spells, etc.
If you added 1 level of Rogue, you would check the Rogue chart, and add +0 Base attack, +0 Fort/Will, +2 Reflex. You would get d8 + con hitpoints (not maxed), and the rogue 1st level abilities (sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding).
You'd also get 1 general feat for reaching 7th level, and your maximum skill ranks would be 7.
If you took a second level in rogue, you would get +1 BAB, +1 Reflex, evasion, and a rogue talent. You'd also get an ability score increase, for reaching 8th level (as a Wiz6/Rog2).
Mechanically its a lot simpler than multi-classing in 1e/2e, just add. Planning character wise it gets more complex and interesting.
Caster classes do not multi-class as strongly as they used to (at least after early levels, without prestige classes). This is because when you might be a Wizard 5/Rogue 5, your party member will be a 10th level cleric, casting 5th level spells. *However*, a Wiz5/Rog5 in 3rd is MUCH stronger than a Wiz5/Rog5 in 1e/2e, since all those attack, hp and saves stack instead of averaging.
OK, that seems clear enough.
What about weapon, armor, etc restrictions? Same as 2e as far as using abilities and such? Cleric weapon restrictions apply, Wizard armor restrictions apply for casting spells, etc?
There are virtually no restrictions in 3e. There are just choices - and consequences.
A run-of-the-mill human wizard (or a dwarf wizard - every race can enter any class, unless it's a special Prestige Class that is exclusive to a certain race) isn't trained with the longsword per se, but he can spend a feat to learn to use it, or use it untrained with a -4, or multiclass into a class that gets the proficiency (fighters, for example, are proficient in all simple and martial weapons).
A wizard/fighter could also wear armour - spellcasting isn't impossible, but there's a chance that the spellcasting is botched, a percentile chance depending on what kind of armour you wear. And this only applies to spells with somatic components.
Clerics in PF are proficient with all simple weapons and their deity's favoured weapon, too, and they can use whatever weapon they want.
That said, there are some quasi-restrictions:
Druids aren't supposed to wear metal armour. Nothing stops them physically from doing so, but if they do, they lose their nature-granted powers for as long as they do so, and 24 hours after.
Monks aren't supposed to wear any armour, and if they do, they cannot use some class abilities (including their class bonus to AC)
That's the way "restrictions" work in 3e: Usually, you can attempt to do anything, but if you're not trained, it doesn't work that well (you usually get penalties). If you're doing something you're not supposed to, you get more severe penalties, or lose abilities altogether until you stop doing what you aren't supposed to (and if you break one of the few alignment restrictions*, you will probably need to make amends before you can continue.)
*Barbarians may not be lawful, clerics need to stay within one step of their deity's alignment, druids need to be at least partially neutral, monks must be lawful and paladins must be lawful good.
Perhaps is would help if you looked at the 2e to 3e conversion booklet. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/conversionbook.zip
That should help you get a better idea of where the changes have been made. Although the PF Beta book is missing the multiclassing section (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/multiclass.htm) of the rules, which may be the really confusing part.
Perhaps is would help if you looked at the 2e to 3e conversion booklet. http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/conversionbook.zip
That should help you get a better idea of where the changes have been made. Although the PF Beta book is missing the multiclassing section (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/multiclass.htm) of the rules, which may be the really confusing part.
Thanks for the help guys.
I went ahead and picked a lot of some old 3.0 stuff on ebay for $20 shipped to supplement (DM guide, PHB, MM, and some other stuff). That should be enough to get things going.
I notice the pathfinder beta is gone now on Amazon too... :( printing a multi-hundred page pdf is pretty tough.