Researching new Spells II

[yellowdingo]

Flicked through the Pathfinder Beta and got to the section on researching new spells and found nothing.

Cost of Research?
Research Time?
Exotic Ingredients?

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Research Library?

[LazarX]

yellowdingo wrote:

Flicked through the Pathfinder Beta and got to the section on researching new spells and found nothing.

Cost of Research?
Research Time?
Exotic Ingredients?

• Light: Antennae from Firebeetle
  
• Jump: Giant Locust legs
  

Research Library?

Might be one of those things intentionally left out for DM's to adjust on thier own by flavor of thier own campaign. It's also a moot point for Pathfinder Society play as players will not be researching thier own spells.

[Fizzlebolt]

LazarX wrote:

Might be one of those things intentionally left out for DM's to adjust on thier own by flavor of thier own campaign. It's also a moot point for Pathfinder Society play as players will not be researching thier own spells.

I'd definitely vote to keep a small section for spell research in--almost no one uses it, but it represents a major piece of the world (spells have to come from somewhere, after all)! Just leave in significant DM caveats.

[Fizzlebolt]

Sorry--just saw there is a section present (p166) but there are no specifics provided (it's a duplication of the SRD content). If no rules are presented in the final section, I'll probably use the WotC values....but I'd like a full PFRPG solution!

[LazarX]

Fizzlebolt wrote:

Sorry--just saw there is a section present (p166) but there are no specifics provided (it's a duplication of the SRD content). If no rules are presented in the final section, I'll probably use the WotC values....but I'd like a full PFRPG solution!

What's wrong with the SRD as it is? Why fix something that ain't broke?

[Fizzlebolt]

LazarX wrote:

Fizzlebolt wrote:

Sorry--just saw there is a section present (p166) but there are no specifics provided (it's a duplication of the SRD content). If no rules are presented in the final section, I'll probably use the WotC values....but I'd like a full PFRPG solution!

What's wrong with the SRD as it is? Why fix something that ain't broke?

There's nothing wrong with it. In the event that a player wanted to research a spell, though, there aren't even loose guidelines provided. I suppose that could be a good or bad thing, but I wouldn't mind an option rule sidebar containing some guideline time and pricing charts/formulas for the research.

That would leave DMs wanting to write their own spell research processes free to discard the rules...but help out others.

[evilash]

I have a player who likes to research his own spells, so more specific guidelines than those presented in the SRD/PHB would be much appreciated.

[LazarX]

Fizzlebolt wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Might be one of those things intentionally left out for DM's to adjust on thier own by flavor of thier own campaign. It's also a moot point for Pathfinder Society play as players will not be researching thier own spells.

I'd definitely vote to keep a small section for spell research in--almost no one uses it, but it represents a major piece of the world (spells have to come from somewhere, after all)! Just leave in significant DM caveats.

Spell research by players is simply too much of a headache to adjudicate for a Network run campaign potentially involving thousands of players. It simply isn't done.

[KanedaMuyo]

I'm a big fan of researching new spells. For example a member of my group is focusing her spells in the electricity direction and the DM has let her study electrical variants of spells. For her this ends up being both a flavor issue and actually a limiter since she has few spells that are not electrical based ready.

Reasons to allow:
Wizards especially are big on the research and intelligence end of spellcasting. They study and "Spells Gained at a New Level: Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each
time a character attains a new wizard level, she gains two spells of her choice to add to her spellbook." (Beta Playtest 166) This implies that they are coming up with the spells on their own (even if they do already know it's possible).

The existing spells are often generic and open to multiple uses. This appeals to most players, but perhaps a limited application (especially of the utility spells) of a spell at a potentially lower level or higher caster level might appeal.

The current body of spells is large, but there will always be a specific effect that it does not contain. Unique spells created through research would fill this gap.

Reasons to not allow:
Potential for game breaking if the DM does not set appropriate limits (level, saves, spell resistance, etc.)

Loss of class or nature (divine vs arcane) specific abilities. Some things should either not be able to be cast by a sorc/wiz (for example) or be prohibitively expensive in terms of level or effect to cast. There are reasons that different classes have access to the same spell at different levels.

Want to poke holes in my logic? In my opinion if spells can be researched some cost or limits being built into the system would be helpful even if the power limits end up being with the DM (much as with item creation).