
DougErvin |

A huge problem exists with the tactical use of Teleport Circle. A 20th level sorcerer/wizard can move 2000 troops per casting anywhere on the planet. While casters of 9th level spells don't beg at every corner with signs "Will cast for food" they are not non existant either. This single spell breaks epic war campaigns. You do not have to have the army march across the passes or board hundred of ships. Both can be use as hooks for the party to harass an approaching army. Just have the Sorc/Wiz move the army 3 miles from the target site and have them march for an hour and attack. Or rent a warehouse and use it as a beach head within the city gates.
One possisble method of limiting is to put a limit of 1 up to 10 persons/level for the spell.
Doug

Garydee |

I'm pretty sure more detail on what you're proposing is important to actually have a discussion.
That said, I think teleport is just fine. Perhaps once I know your specific issues with it I'll see your point, though.
The scry-teleport was the issue I had. Jason is already aware of it and doesn't feel that it needs to be discussed.

Majuba |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

A huge problem exists with the tactical use of Teleport Circle. A 20th level sorcerer/wizard can move 2000 troops per casting anywhere on the planet. While casters of 9th level spells don't beg at every corner with signs "Will cast for food" they are not non existent either. This single spell breaks epic war campaigns. You do not have to have the army march across the passes or board hundred of ships. Both can be use as hooks for the party to harass an approaching army. Just have the Sorc/Wiz move the army 3 miles from the target site and have them march for an hour and attack. Or rent a warehouse and use it as a beach head within the city gates.
One possible method of limiting is to put a limit of 1 up to 10 persons/level for the spell.
I don't feel this is too much of an issue. That sort of use of the spell is commensurate with the power of such a high level caster. Also it takes *quite* a while to walk that many troups trough the circle. I once had an orc army (allied with the PCs actually) march through three teleportation circles - they got attacked while still marching through.
Any kingdom/target that will be assaulted by such a high level caster better have the capabilities to respond to an army arriving three miles from its walls or they're doomed to begin with.
If, as you partially suggest, the caster isn't involved, and is just hired transport, *he'd* better be cautious - interfering with entire nations like that he's likely to get some assassin contracts put out on him.

DougErvin |

Any kingdom/target that will be assaulted by such a high level caster better have the capabilities to respond to an army arriving three miles from its walls or they're doomed to begin with.If, as you partially suggest, the caster isn't involved, and is just hired transport, *he'd* better be cautious - interfering with entire nations like that he's likely to get some assassin contracts put out on him.
A point well taken, too many years playing Kingdom of Kalamar where every nation feared Kalamar doing such a tactic. Pathfinder assumes more high level characters and a greater depth of arcane casters.
Thanks,
Doug

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The presence of effective magic pretty much eliminates the standard flow of midieval/ancient battles and eliminates much of the utility of the standard castle/fortification etc.
In Design philosophy you have two choices.
1. nerf the availability, and power of magic wielders so that these effects don't happen. This essentially means magic has to be brought down to Warhammer/Dragonquest level etc.
2. Own up to the fact that magic redefines warfare, the way air power, the shield wall, firearms did in thier times, and rethink battles entirely, depending on the capabilities and wealth of the combatants.
Which of these would you rather have?

Roman |

I am fine with opening this line of discussion, but lets make sure this does not turn into the "scry teleport" argument or one of its many permutations, as I am well aware of them and they do not really get us anywhere.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
The scry-teleport issue is avoidable while preserving the spells in the game with slight modifications. The solution is to require foci for some divination and some transportation spells. Maybe an object or a pinch of earth from the location to which the caster is teleporting is necessary as a focus. There could be some exceptions for 'attuned locations' - such 'attuning' could take a day-long ritual to complete and perhaps the number of such locations could be limited. See this thread for more: Link

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The "require a focus" idea is pretty neat - but I wouldn't like to see it in the core rules. Perhaps as a world-specific kind of thing where the setting is less magical and greater effort is required. As a flavour element I do like things like truename magic (which your focus is similar to in many ways) where you have to know something intimate about the target of the spell.
For core stuff, though, I think there is a lot of assumption of being able to use such effects in premade modules. Plus, it doesn't solve the problem, it just adds a side-trek to get the appropriate focus. Once they have it, they can still teleport willy nilly to get around. I know that any wizard of experience would have a bag of holding (or something similar) full or dirt samples from everywhere he'd been, and locks of hair from every person he'd met, etc... I don't think it would serve as the limiter you're seeking, but it is a good concept flavour-wise.

Roman |

Plus, it doesn't solve the problem, it just adds a side-trek to get the appropriate focus. Once they have it, they can still teleport willy nilly to get around. I know that any wizard of experience would have a bag of holding (or something similar) full or dirt samples from everywhere he'd been, and locks of hair from every person he'd met, etc... I don't think it would serve as the limiter you're seeking, but it is a good concept flavour-wise.
The thing is that the DM can have a significant degree of control over which objects/locks of hair become available to the players, so it is no longer possible to scry and teleport to the evil cultists' hidden crypt unless the DM permits the players to acquire the relevant items.

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Plus, it doesn't solve the problem, it just adds a side-trek to get the appropriate focus. Once they have it, they can still teleport willy nilly to get around. I know that any wizard of experience would have a bag of holding (or something similar) full or dirt samples from everywhere he'd been, and locks of hair from every person he'd met, etc... I don't think it would serve as the limiter you're seeking, but it is a good concept flavour-wise.
The thing is that the DM can have a significant degree of control over which objects/locks of hair become available to the players, so it is no longer possible to scry and teleport to the evil cultists' hidden crypt unless the DM permits the players to acquire the relevant items.
That's true... but how is it different from just choosing what locations to make impossible to scry, or to teleport into? What if the player gets it in his head that he is going to find what he needs and continues despite the DMs constant roadblocks? At least with the contrivance of "no, that area is warded against inbound teleports" the player knows that he shouldn't spend more time trying to figure out a way to teleport there. Unless you're going to come straight out and say "There is no way your character can ever find a possession/piece of the target, so give up now" then it could lead to a lot of frustration on the part of the player when this new possibility is dangled before him but is always kept just out of reach without the knowledge that he cannot succeed.
It's a more flavourful way of denying the characters use of a spell, but it has the same effect, really.
(I really do like the flavour, just not sure it's appropriate for a core limitation)

Roman |

hmarcbower wrote:Plus, it doesn't solve the problem, it just adds a side-trek to get the appropriate focus. Once they have it, they can still teleport willy nilly to get around. I know that any wizard of experience would have a bag of holding (or something similar) full or dirt samples from everywhere he'd been, and locks of hair from every person he'd met, etc... I don't think it would serve as the limiter you're seeking, but it is a good concept flavour-wise.Roman wrote:The thing is that the DM can have a significant degree of control over which objects/locks of hair become available to the players, so it is no longer possible to scry and teleport to the evil cultists' hidden crypt unless the DM permits the players to acquire the relevant items.That's true... but how is it different from just choosing what locations to make impossible to scry, or to teleport into? What if the player gets it in his head that he is going to find what he needs and continues despite the DMs constant roadblocks? At least with the contrivance of "no, that area is warded against inbound teleports" the player knows that he shouldn't spend more time trying to figure out a way to teleport there. Unless you're going to come straight out and say "There is no way your character can ever find a possession/piece of the target, so give up now" then it could lead to a lot of frustration on the part of the player when this new possibility is dangled before him but is always kept just out of reach without the knowledge that he cannot succeed.
I see what you are saying. If the head cultist PCs want to scry is in the hidden temple, they will have trouble obtaining his lock of hair - and it acts as an effective ban on scry/teleport. In other situation, though, it might be easier to gain the right focus items. I guess that depends on the DMing style. I would usually let the players succeed in obtaining the required object, but depending on the object's importance and rarity, it could even be an adventure in and of itself. It also feels less contrived/artificial than giving every important location protection from scrying/teleportation. The aim is not so much to outright prevent teleportation and scrying, but to make sure that it is not an adventure breaker. If the players quest to acquire the right items to cast their spells, rather than trying to slog their way through temple guards directly, that's legitimate in my eyes and provides for an adventure with similar levels of fun.

KnightErrantJR |

I really don't want to see teleport change any. Most of the times I have seen teleport used in play has either been to teleport back to some place the party has been without traveling overland, thus saving time and possible encounters, or to escape a situation where the party looks like they are about to go down due to the odds (i.e. the wizard is one of the "survivors," and the cleric is either out of spells or out of it in general, as are a few other party members).
In fact, changing teleport drastically will change the game as it stands, in fact, as it has stood since 1st edition for me at least.
If teleportation and scrying has to be nerfed, it seems like the point is more to make all levels of play essentially the same, just with bigger numbers and perhaps a slight drop in lethality. If that's the case, if the dynamics of encounters and adventures don't change due to new abilities, what's the point of a level based system?

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If the head cultist PCs want to scry is in the hidden temple, they will have trouble obtaining his lock of hair - and it acts as an effective ban on scry/teleport. In other situation, though, it might be easier to gain the right focus items. I guess that depends on the DMing style. I would usually let the players succeed in obtaining the required object, but depending on the object's importance and rarity, it could even be an adventure in and of itself. It also feels less contrived/artificial than giving every important location protection from scrying/teleportation. The aim is not so much to outright prevent teleportation and scrying, but to make sure that it is not an adventure breaker. If the players quest to acquire the right items to cast their spells, rather than trying to slog their way through temple guards directly, that's legitimate in my eyes and provides for an adventure with similar levels of fun.
But in a world where teleport and scry exist, shouldn't there be just as powerful defences against such things? We have rivers, so we made bridges. We have weapons, so we made armour. We have teleporters, so we made wards.
Not every door should be locked, but the ones that hide the most valuable treasure certainly should be. :)

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I'd rather see Teleport require you having BEEN to the site instead of just SEEING the site. Then we have a reason for exploring the unknown continent.
Then what about other teleport effects like Dim Door? I have to have been to the other side of the battlefield in order to get there?

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Well, this is rapidly devolving into the exact arguments that I thought it would.
I am well aware of the problems of scry/teleport and the issues it causes in game. There are other ways to solve this other than changing two spells that have been a core component of the game for a long time. Spells that counter this tactic are being considered (as well as altering a few existing spells).
If you have something else to contribute to this discussion, other than arguments about scry/teleport, feel free to post them. Otherwise, leave this one alone please.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

Eric Tillemans |

I'd rather see Teleport require you having BEEN to the site instead of just SEEING the site. Then we have a reason for exploring the unknown continent.
I'd be ok with having to cast another spell on a site in order to allow you to teleport to it. The new spell would create an anchor which would be permanent, but dispellable. Or perhaps just having a teleport spell memorized would allow the caster to 'create' the anchor (but limit how often or the total number of anchors a caster could have?)

anthony Valente |

As a GM, I find teleport on the players part to be rather boring, simply from the stand point that once the players get it, overland travel becomes sort of trivial and often gets lost as a game option. But that is just me.
I don't feel there is a great need to change the spell as it stands in core rules, as they work well overall (again, it just gets boring).
I may change it myself to suit our campaigns in a more flavorful way, but have no desire to see it changed for pathfinder, except perhaps the distance you can travel with teleport and greater teleport... over 1,000 miles? Sheesh!
That said, I would like to share with you all a thought I have for my campaign to make the spell more interesting. I'm thinking of having it require a costly focus. You can have several of these foci if you wish. They must be placed in a spot to be teleported to... and if they are discovered and moved, well... things could get interesting.

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Then what about other teleport effects like Dim Door? I have to have been to the other side of the battlefield in order to get there?
I'm just talking about Teleport. Dim Door doesn't let you traverse whole continents. Admittedly now that I think of it, it doesn't really prevent Scry/Dim Door, but then you also need to know the distance to the place, which Scry doesn't provide. Mostly I was offering that idea for the 'no need to walk/fly/sail anywhere' point.

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In light of Jason's suggestion to come up with something more interesting: How about a teleportation attractor? If you try to teleport to within 120' of Square X, you get pulled to Square X. (Inspiration: the Riven introduction.)
Or, if you wanted teleportation to be weakened but still versatile, don't make it instantaneous. There's a round of "beam-in" glittering and special effects. (I'm trying to remember the line from Star Trek's "Piece of the Action". Something like, "They can't start shootin' till they stop sparkin'."
The issue with requiring a lock of hair: other than a lot of wizards shaving their heads, the spell would actually need either (a) a lock of hair, or (b) Eschew Materials.

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Well, this is rapidly devolving into the exact arguments that I thought it would.
I am well aware of the problems of scry/teleport and the issues it causes in game. There are other ways to solve this other than changing two spells that have been a core component of the game for a long time. Spells that counter this tactic are being considered (as well as altering a few existing spells).
If you have something else to contribute to this discussion, other than arguments about scry/teleport, feel free to post them. Otherwise, leave this one alone please.
Care to share what direction you're going? We could then have some direction for this thread. Or is it still top secret? :) Since this is a playtest, it might be good to get the rules you're thinking of out there so it can be playtested.

Thraxus |

In light of Jason's suggestion to come up with something more interesting: How about a teleportation attractor? If you try to teleport to within 120' of Square X, you get pulled to Square X. (Inspiration: the Riven introduction.)
Or, if you wanted teleportation to be weakened but still versatile, don't make it instantaneous. There's a round of "beam-in" glittering and special effects. (I'm trying to remember the line from Star Trek's "Piece of the Action". Something like, "They can't start shootin' till they stop sparkin'."
The issue with requiring a lock of hair: other than a lot of wizards shaving their heads, the spell would actually need either (a) a lock of hair, or (b) Eschew Materials.
Along a similar line, an abjuration spell that redirects teleportaion affects to another location designated by the caster, along with warning the caster, would be cool. The spell could even be made permanent to sheild important locations from a teleportaion-based invasions.

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But in a world where teleport and scry exist, shouldn't there be just as powerful defences against such things? We have rivers, so we made bridges. We have weapons, so we made armour. We have teleporters, so we made wards.Not every door should be locked, but the ones that hide the most valuable treasure certainly should be. :)
There are quite a few options, permanent versions of Private Sanctum come to mind. Detect Scrying spells and in the upper levels, regular applications of Mind Blank. A fair number of DMs however prefer the easier route of just nerfing the spells, or in some cases, eliminating them entirely.

jreyst |

A fair number of DMs however prefer the easier route of just nerfing the spells, or in some cases, eliminating them entirely.
Exactly. Its just easier than making up a half dozen new spells which may themselves be broken or introduce other unforeseen combinations resulting in even greater headaches. Its just easier to nerf or kill the offending parties. If they could get fixed in the official source then thats one less house rule my players have to remember.

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A fair number of DMs however prefer the easier route of just nerfing the spells, or in some cases, eliminating them entirely.
Exactly. Its just easier than making up a half dozen new spells which may themselves be broken or introduce other unforeseen combinations resulting in even greater headaches. Its just easier to nerf or kill the offending parties. If they could get fixed in the official source then thats one less house rule my players have to remember.
A "fair number of DMs" doesn't mean it's right or should happen. :) Besides, Jason has all but said Teleport isn't going to change, and it seems he's going the route of creating counters to teleport. I'd prefer that... it makes more sense to find new ways of opening locked doors than to just say no door may be locked.

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A "fair number of DMs" doesn't mean it's right or should happen. :) Besides, Jason has all but said Teleport isn't going to change, and it seems he's going the route of creating counters to teleport. I'd prefer that... it makes more sense to find new ways of opening locked doors than to just say no door may be locked.
Under the idea that "ultimately it's the DM's game" it's no more wrong or right than leaving the spells as they are. A D20 world in which Teleport or certain other spells don't exist isn't any less valid than the standard, again it's that part of home campaign creativity that's a reserved privilege for the DM. Not that I'd take that route, I have no problem with most of these spells since after all what's sauce for the goose...

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LazarX wrote:A fair number of DMs however prefer the easier route of just nerfing the spells, or in some cases, eliminating them entirely.Exactly. Its just easier than making up a half dozen new spells which may themselves be broken or introduce other unforeseen combinations resulting in even greater headaches. Its just easier to nerf or kill the offending parties. If they could get fixed in the official source then thats one less house rule my players have to remember.
Don't take this the wrong way, but you may be the perfect person to start this thread I have in mind and set a focus for it.
You clearly have a list of spells you simply hate and detest, and suggest modifications only for the sake of keeping them in the game where you'd rather simply get rid of them. Why don't you start a thread that lists the Spells I Hate and put it out all in one package?

rafebelmont |
We, in our game, are testing a house-rule system that spells have a cost in constitution(inspired in Merlin's magic on the movie Excalibur...), this loss in CON the wizard recovers in the rate of 1 per week. Not all spells have a CON loss, just the most powerful. This way we altered some of the spells to not be a joke, and then we can have real magic, not the mechanics-based 3.5 magic.

Laurefindel |

A huge problem exists with the tactical use of Teleport Circle. A 20th level sorcerer/wizard can move 2000 troops per casting anywhere on the planet.
That is also my biggest issue with the teleport spells, that and the economical impact (read disaster) a mercantile teleporting adventurer can create in a society based on a relatively slow commerce and scarcity of certain products.
Adding an expensive material component to the spell does not solve the issue, but could restrain abuses.
'findel

KnightErrantJR |

I'm not sure I can get that worried about a wizard that is able to use the most powerful expression of "standard" (non-epic) arcane magic, a 9th level spell, to do something major. Characters need to be able to do different things as they become more powerful, otherwise higher levels are just the same as lower levels with bigger numbers.
Also, I think sometimes when looking at a "world view," we start falling into this idea that every wizard will eventually be able to do X or Y, when in reality, there are only a handful of characters that are suppose to ever reach this level of proficiency, the majority of which are PCs and villains.

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I'm not sure I can get that worried about a wizard that is able to use the most powerful expression of "standard" (non-epic) arcane magic, a 9th level spell, to do something major. Characters need to be able to do different things as they become more powerful, otherwise higher levels are just the same as lower levels with bigger numbers.
I believe that's exactly what some folks in this thread want. I remember an optional rule in one of the late Arduin books whose philosophy reflected that leaders and solders fought and died together and wanted to eliminate some of the disparity in levels and came up with this.
Hit Dice... it's simple, we eliminate them for characters anyway. Characters start with a Hit point total based on race, class and constitution and proceed along these formula.
Warrior types such as fighters, rangers, barbarians gain one hit point per level.
Semi-combat types, clerics, rougues, etc. gain one hit point per two levels.
Non-combat types, mages, healers, etc. gain one hit point per three levels.
None of these gains is modified by constitution. Monster hit dice are calculated as normal.

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We, in our game, are testing a house-rule system that spells have a cost in constitution(inspired in Merlin's magic on the movie Excalibur...), this loss in CON the wizard recovers in the rate of 1 per week. Not all spells have a CON loss, just the most powerful. This way we altered some of the spells to not be a joke, and then we can have real magic, not the mechanics-based 3.5 magic.
Real magic? Arst thou conjuring pizza on thy gaming table? Last I checked you're still using rules mechanics in your magic, unless something really weird is going on at your house. Your con loss rule IS a gaming mechanic by definition.

Straybow |

That is also my biggest issue with the teleport spells, that and the economical impact (read disaster) a mercantile teleporting adventurer can create in a society based on a relatively slow commerce and scarcity of certain products.
Adding an expensive material component to the spell does not solve the issue, but could restrain abuses.
One assumes that wealthy merchants use lesser magic controling weather and navigation to speed shipment and reduce attrition. Merely keeping a stiff breeze in the right direction can halve the travel time for a square-sailed ship. That would be folded into the pricing of the milieu (which needs to be reworked anyway).

Abraham spalding |

Let's not forget the miss chance. Things can go wrong with a teleport. After having it happen a few times (I am always lucky... it's just not always good luck) I tend to try and find a safer means first.
Beyond that how much of the world can actually cast teleport? If I remember right over 97% of the population is supposed to be 5 level or lower.

rafebelmont |
rafebelmont wrote:We, in our game, are testing a house-rule system that spells have a cost in constitution(inspired in Merlin's magic on the movie Excalibur...), this loss in CON the wizard recovers in the rate of 1 per week. Not all spells have a CON loss, just the most powerful. This way we altered some of the spells to not be a joke, and then we can have real magic, not the mechanics-based 3.5 magic.Real magic? Arst thou conjuring pizza on thy gaming table? Last I checked you're still using rules mechanics in your magic, unless something really weird is going on at your house. Your con loss rule IS a gaming mechanic by definition.
I'm sorry, i just didn't express myself correctly, my english is a little rusted. What i was saying is that the magic in 3.5 is totally guided by balance and mechanics, so doesn't look like the wizard is making magic, just a bunch of modifiers and effects guided by mechanics ONLY, not imagination which i think is the greater inspiration for a roleplaying game. So with the CON loss, the magic can get out of control in effects and other things(which is her function per se), but the wizard has to pay a price, measured in a cooler thing(vital energy) than money.

KnightErrantJR |

This thread has a pretty interesting break down of population based on core 3.5 assumptions from the DMG:
EN World Blog: Spells and Spellcasters In A Campaign World
According to this, the average small city will have two wizards that can teleport, assuming both can cast the spell.
A large city will have six that can cast the spell, if they all know it. Which is more of a gamble when you factor in sorcerers and how few spells they know.
A metropolis will have eight that can cast it. Again, assuming they all know it, which is much more iffy with the sorcerers figured in.
With that few casters that can actually manage the spell, I'd assume that those wizards might actually have better things to do than constantly teleport goods for merchants, and they could charge some pretty outrageous rates for their service as well.

Abraham spalding |

Why should it be discouraged? After all they worked their way up to that level, and if they want to filt about the world instead of casting overland flight or some other spell it's their resources they are burning up.
The idea of expensive spell components is a bad one.
After all if the PC's spend the wealth, it needs replaced to keep them to their "challenge" rating, and it causes headaches when the DM doesn't replace it.
Also adding in expensive components also means that any item that uses teleport has to have its cost recalculated.
It might be a better idea to have dimensional anchor have an AOE version that prevents people from teleporting in.
The idea that only certain spots can be teleported to/from means that these spots are going to become points of hot contention and towns are going to be sprouting up around them for the easy of access they give. It also gives a bit more of a "video game" feel IMO, to something that hasn't been limited like that before in D&D.

Maugan22 |

I have a lot of experience with teleportation as I generally run campaigns from 1st level to low epic levels (21st-23rd)
I'm planning on introducing some modest material component costs to counter the perceived impact of teleportation on my world's economies. I don't feel that these are important to assure game balance but rather to cater to my own particular sense of verisimilitude.
I think overall the teleportation spells are fine but a selection of countermeasures could be posed in a sidebar for the convenience of DMs who want to do high level overland adventures or otherwise restrict teleportation in some instances.
A) Dimensional Lock/ Dimensional Anchor
B) Forbidance (perhaps add a lesser forbidance without alignment based damage upon incursion)
C) Teleportation Cage (as described in Expedition to Undermountain) Basically prevents external teleportation and causes internal teleportation to send you to a random spot in the dungeon.
D) Teleportation Magnet/redirection: Teleport to a location within a given area get sucked to another location. I had a Red dragon in my first 3.0 campaign that directed all teleportaion to his lair into a fireball trap in the entry corridor. The dragon didn't even consider it a defense per say, just a nice way to arrive home.
E) Dead Magic Areas
F) Random Teleportation scatter: If you teleport within an area get shunted 2d6X100 feet in a random direction, even with greater teleport.
G) Exilic Mark to prevent invasions by convicts or similar undesirables sent off to prison colonies or the like. (Used with great success in two of my campaigns)
H) Teleportation Walls: Magical effects that surround an entire country and prevent individuals from teleporting in or out. This requires magicians and their compatriots to stop at each border and make a short overland trek and perhaps deal with checkpoints, guards, or random encounters.
I) Monsters in Astral Space: Certain Regions of astral space (through which teleportation carries characters) Could contain powerful creatures who could conceivably latch onto teleporting characters as a means of reaching the prime material plane. The higher the spell level or caster level of the teleportation spell the more powerful the monster that arrives at the destination with the party. If this kind of monster was made a template it permits random encounters to still feature into high level games.
J) Teleportation dead zones: spells directed to an area simply fail
K) Teleportation proximity requirements: to teleport to a given area you must be no more than X distance away.
L) Teleportation criteria requirement: In order to teleport to a given area you must be of a given race or allignment, (great way to seperate the party)
M) Trailblazers: A good way to run an overland adventure even at high levels it to have the party scout out an overland route for others to take through unexplored territory. A wealthy merchant might want a shortcut to get his valuable goods to market or a friendly monarch may want a new route to march his troops, of course they would want a reasonable assessment of the dangers faced on a given route.
N) Add a costly material component as a disincentive.
O) Spells or effects that anticipate teleportation and delay the arrival of those who teleport by a round or more. Thus if you teleport into enemy teritory you could be giving your opponent the opportunity to set up an ambush: See Anticipate Teleportation p:13 Spell Compendium
P) Last option is the most drastic of the all: discuss with your players (before the campaign) that teleportation effects are off the table entirely, gives campaigns a very LOTR feel but I haven't been eager to try it.
When considering teleportation countermeasures it's important that the party still have a chance to make viable use of their teleportation abilities. If you block teleportation in each and every adventure the players will feel jilted.

Mistwalker |

B) Forbidance (perhaps add a lesser forbidance without alignment based damage upon incursion)
I have suggest exactly that at Forbiddance and a mage version of Forbiddance.

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Don't know if these have been answered elsewhere or if anybody cares but a few teleport (and teleport like ability) questions that I would like to see clarified. Not necessarily in the spell description but perhaps a section on dimensional magics? These are all things that had to be ruled on at my table in the last 2 years. Yes I asked for it with a campaign of Orien marked in Eberron. I know Jason can't address all of these but these are just some of the things that get asked, I assume other have had similar questions.
- Does teleporation preserve velocity and direction of travel relative to the world? If you teleport while falling do you appear with a downward velocity and still take falling damage? If so can you reorient that travel upon reaching your destination. Do you trip and fall if you teleport off a moving ship? Also orientation in general, if you teleport prone can you arrive standing up?
- Are there any mundane countermeasures (like lead) that can thwart teleportaion? If so how big a gap in the protection do you need to bypass it. Can you teleport through the keyhole of a lead door or does the opening have to be as large as you. Can you teleport out of a lead birdcage? Is there directionality that comes into play. If you have a lead box with one side missing can you teleport into it from anywhere or just if you are on the open side?
- How much does a destination have to change to shift the familiarity? (see spoiler for why I ask) But also what if the area floods? Or it snowed? Can you safely appear knee deep in water or is that a mishap?
- Do any auditory effects accompany the arrival (or disappearance) of a teleporter? Is there a pop or crack from the displaced air? Does it ruin surprise?
- Can you intentionally appear in mid-air? Unintentionally? You teleport to the second floor room of you house that has burned down since you left.

Mistwalker |

Does teleporation preserve velocity and direction of travel relative to the world? If you teleport while falling do you appear with a downward velocity and still take falling damage? If so can you reorient that travel upon reaching your destination. Do you trip and fall if you teleport off a moving ship? Also orientation in general, if you teleport prone can you arrive standing up?
I would say that you arrive at your destination with no speed and oriented in the most conveninent manner for you. If you think about it, the speed in which the ground is moving is much faster at the equator than it is at, say New York City. If the spell can adjust for that, then it should have no problem having you arrive safely.
Are there any mundane countermeasures (like lead) that can thwart teleportaion? If so how big a gap in the protection do you need to bypass it. Can you teleport through the keyhole of a lead door or does the opening have to be as large as you. Can you teleport out of a lead birdcage? Is there directionality that comes into play. If you have a lead box with one side missing can you teleport into it from anywhere or just if you are on the open side?
Yes, lead should work to stop someone from teleporting into a room. I would say that the hole would need to be bigger than a pin hole, and on the same side as the teleporter. Think of a plastic box with a hole in one side, and you trying to throw a snow ball at it. If the hole is on the wrong side, there is no chance that any snow/water will get inside.
How much does a destination have to change to shift the familiarity? (see spoiler for why I ask) But also what if the area floods? Or it snowed? Can you safely appear knee deep in water or is that a mishap?
It would have to be a fairly significant change for the familiarity to be changed. Simply re-arranging the furniture or even bringing in new furniture should not really affect the spell.
Do any auditory effects accompany the arrival (or disappearance) of a teleporter? Is there a pop or crack from the displaced air? Does it ruin surprise?
Depends on your play style. I usually rule that there is no auditory effects for teleportation. Some of the other displacement spells, like dimension door, have visual effects.
Can you intentionally appear in mid-air? Unintentionally? You teleport to the second floor room of you house that has burned down since you left.
I would say yes, that you can intentionally appear in mid-air and have had players do so with their characters (it was one way of getting around a dimensional lock at the top of a spire -teleport in and feather fall). As for a large change like a burned down building, I would go with a drop of 1 level of familiarity and have them arrive on the ground.

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I would say that you arrive at your destination with no speed and oriented in the most conveninent manner for you. If you think about it, the speed in which the ground is moving is much faster at the equator than it is at, say New York City. If the spell can adjust for that, then it should have no problem having you arrive safely.
Which I agree is fine for a 5th level spell. But our table was dealing with a lot more lower level teleporation in Dimensional Leap and Dimension Door and they wanted that velocity to carry. Think less classic D&D and more XMen Nightcrawler. So we ruled Teleport was just a longer distance version and ended up implementing a skill based teleporation system that allowed for velocity to be affected by the act of teleporting as well as directionality. Complex but better to the flavor of PCs that could do short teleports 4-6 times a day. It was the only way to develop internal consistence for dimensional magic.
Yes, lead should work to stop someone from teleporting into a room. I would say that the hole would need to be bigger than a pin hole, and on the same side as the teleporter. Think of a plastic box with a hole in one side, and you trying to throw a snow ball at it. If the hole is on the wrong side, there is no chance that any snow/water will get inside.
Our ruling at the table too, except the smaller the opening the higher the DC for your skill check. This allowed for lead to be mixed with mortar and be a fairly effective deterrent except for the most skilled teleporters.
It would have to be a fairly significant change for the familiarity to be changed. Simply re-arranging the furniture or even bringing in new furniture should not really affect the spell.
In the old school game Mishaps meant transfixing an object or structure (or the ground itself) and that is how you got instant death. The mental inertia of that lead to the question of what happens if you transfix a chair? Since we ruled it did mess with familiarity and made it much less safe. I should point out that when we rewrote the rules for including a check we also drastically increased the chance of mishap in unfamiliar areas. In our rules a room with a web of piano wire hung throughout was a way to prevent teleportation. This lead to specified teleport markers in many locations that allow safer travel and the introduction of a cantrip that allowed you to send ahead the sound of chimes to warn people that a teleporter was inbound. Again, a matter of flavor and PRPG shifts mishap to a more general "scrambled" effect which might need some tweaking.
I would say yes, that you can intentionally appear in mid-air and have had players do so with their characters (it was one way of getting around a dimensional lock at the top of a spire -teleport in and feather fall). As for a large change like a burned down building, I would go with a drop of 1 level of familiarity and have them arrive on the ground.
Appearing in mid-air was a tough call since if you allow that you open the door for teleport object to be used to drop heavy stuff on people. What is the damage from having a burning cast iron stove dropped on your head? Not much worry when it is a 7th level spell but when it is a granted power of an Orien Blade it becomes more tiresome. When they can drop alchemist's fire on the other side of a closed door or even teleport a foe 20' strait up or off the side of the tower it crops up a lot.
A burned down building is 10' of falling damage in our world.
Ismellmonkey |

I was thinking about this the other day.
The idea I came up with was to add a stun effect to everyone who gets teleported. Basically after you teleport there a set time limit, say an hour, that you cannot do any major physical activity, basically you can't participate in combat, cast other spells, can only move slowly, etc.
The only thing this would do is assure the players look for a safe place to teleport instead of jumping right into the fray, and the spell would still be useful for making a quick escapes.