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Our problem with Channel Energy (which has been a real boon to our campaigns, OTOH) is not that they make the Cleric too powerful (it isn't; it just keeps the rest of the group going), but that it makes it a necessity. Each party now must have a cleric or they're at a big disadvantage.
The solution would be giving channel energy-like powers to more classes. Maybe a "healing song" for Bards that healed its allies a number of hp equal to their Bard level or a "inner bloom" for Druids that gave a collective +2 bonus to Constitution.
As for turning undead, I like the "keeing at bay" fluff, so maybe we could leave it at that: "turned" undead would, instead of run away, be unable to get closer to the Cleric on the next few rounds.
I give my voice to this. All classes except for good or neutral Clerics (and somewhat Paladins) are now crap in healing.
I also disagree with the OP. Rather than making it a "necessity" to have a cleric, channeling positive energy now gives the cleric more options other than being a box of band-aids. The bard has options; the druid has options; the 3E cleric was basically the guy who always wished people weren't getting hurt so he could cast some of his cool spells. Now, he too has options.
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I also disagree with the OP. Rather than making it a "necessity" to have a cleric, channeling positive energy now gives the cleric more options other than being a box of band-aids. The bard has options; the druid has options; the 3E cleric was basically the guy who always wished people weren't getting hurt so he could cast some of his cool spells. Now, he too has options.
agreed
FYI - Bard already has a healing song (equiv. of Mass cure light) - though at fairly high level.
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I also disagree with the OP. Rather than making it a "necessity" to have a cleric, channeling positive energy now gives the cleric more options other than being a box of band-aids. The bard has options; the druid has options; the 3E cleric was basically the guy who always wished people weren't getting hurt so he could cast some of his cool spells. Now, he too has options.
Well, I like the effects of Channel Energy precisely because of that: now Clerics can actually cast their spells and do their "thing", not just sit down and wait for someone to need to be healed.
But it also makes clerics something a party can't afford not having, because it is essential if they want to survive for more than just one encounter.
Let's look at it this way: If a party wants melee combatants, it has barbarians, fighters, paladins and rangers from where to choose.
If it's DPS what they need, they have monks, rogues, rangers and sorcerers.
If they want utility/support, they have bards, clerics, druids, monks and wizards.
But if they want healing, they have just one option: cleric.
So, giving some characters (bards, druids or paladins come to mind) the ability to heal better than they currently do, maybe with an aura similar to the dragon shaman's, you are raising the options for the players and allowing a more varied character selection.
Surely, clerics need to be the greatest healers, because it's their archetype, but they shouldn't be the only available option for a party in need of healing.
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Well, I like the effects of Channel Energy precisely because of that: now Clerics can actually cast their spells and do their "thing", not just sit down and wait for someone to need to be healed.
But it also makes clerics something a party can't afford not having, because it is essential if they want to survive for more than just one encounter.
Surely, clerics need to be the greatest healers, because it's their archetype, but they shouldn't be the only available option for a party in need of healing.
Actually the cleric's archetype is to be a (Un)Holy Warrior (for more reference see that threand in General RPG, and no the Paladin is Champion of Light)
i disagree that a Cleric is a must for party survival (this has been argued since 3.0 in which the cleric was only used as healbot and that a party of 4 woin't survive without one), ok it makes things a LOT easier, but Druids and Bards and Paladins already have healing options if limited.
Yes, a cleric in the group makes things Easier... but your DM Should plan according to his group... if you have more wizards than fighters, ok more mystic problem with some combat for everyone... if everyone is a melee class maybe give them anotheroption for healign points so they are more durable or have them buy some healing potions
The Cleric (and only the good ones and half the neutrals) can cure that easily becausethey have aconnection with the Divine that no one esel has... its not to mess with its class features... its cheapening the special connection to their god... now everyone will be able to have divine powers without dealing with the duties that come with the power.
there are options out there alerady mentiones without the cleric having Possitive channel
yes still half of the time i will play a Cleric... but that is because i love the cleric class since D&D's Red Box and because i relate them to the Knight Templars.
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Hmmm.
Maybe the answer would be some sort of Positive Material Plane bomb, a one-use widget that flashes and --whoosh-- healing surge.
How would you price something like that?
mmmm magic item convenctions... would need to check, unfortunately for how itworks sounds like needint to use a mass heal :S so it would be expensive... but maybe... gah!! this would have been a great magic item ofr the 2009 Superstar... an item that canbecharged with possitive energy and then throwwn in the middle of the party ehaling everyone (incluthing enemies)
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My only real quibble with channel energy is that positive energy channelers are now amazingly awesome PC choices, and negative energy channelers are really, really dire.
Selective channeling also works preferentially towards positive energy channelers, since you can always heal *after* combat, when there aren't any foes around to be accidentally healed, and many combats end up being with either a mass of weak foes (in which case, you don't really care much if they get a few hit points back) or a single really powerful foe (who can be selectively not healed by anyone with a Cha of 12 or better).
A negative energy channeler can't 'wait until after combat' so as not affect his allies, and, given the *base* party size is 4, needs to have at least a Charisma of 16 to not nuke his allies everytime he uses his power (and with Pathfinder Society groups having up to seven players, he might need a Charisma of 22, which is kinda hard to squeak out on 20 point-buy, while leaving a few points for *Wisdom*...).
In 3.5, negative energy channeling was kinda awesome. In Pathfinder, unless you are playing solo and surrounded by undead (which means that you survived through levels 1 through 4, before you could make undead), it's a trap.
I've already been *forced* to go against concept with one of my Neutral Clerics and make a character that channeled positive energy, because I didn't want to blow most of my point buy *and a feat* to be able to use this otherwise party-killing negative energy channeling.
Selective Channeling, IMO, should be built-in, and, like channeling itself, start at 3+Cha mod for people you can exclude, so that even a 1st level Cleric with a Cha of 10 can function in the 'standard' four-person adventuring group right out of the box.
Does a Barbarian have to spend a Feat to not attack his allies while Raging? Does a Druid have to spend a Feat to keep his Animal Companion from attacking his allies? Does a Bard have to spend a Feat to prevent his Bardic Music from buffing the party's enemies?
No. It's lame to require a Cleric to max out a *second* attribute *and* purchase a Feat (which might be their *only* starting Feat, if non-Human!) to be able to use one of their Class abilities.
Clerics, like Bards, Druids, Sorcerers, Wizards, etc. have the same limitations on *spellcasting* affecting people indiscriminately, with a Flame Strike or Sound Burst being just as uncaring about who it affects as a Fireball or Entangle. They shouldn't be singled out to have their other Class Ability also potentially damage their allies or embiggen their enemies.
Selective Channeling, IMO, should be built-in, and, like channeling itself, start at 3+Cha mod for people you can exclude, so that even a 1st level Cleric with a Cha of 10 can function in the 'standard' four-person adventuring group right out of the box.
This I totally agree with.
My suggestion is this:
Let clerics keep Channel. It's a fun and powerful ability, and it feeds very well into the undead/postive/negative energy thing.
But then take Sponaneous Cure/Inflict Spells away from clerics. It's modeling much the same thing as Channel does, namely that clerics are very good with positive or negative energy.
Replace Spontaneous Cure/Inflict with the ability to Spontaneously cast spells from the old 3.5 domain lists. Trickery Clerics could cast Invisibility all day, Fire Clerics could cast Burning Hands. Healing Clerics would go mostly unchanged, except they'd still have another domain. Destruction clerics also would go largely unchanged.
I like this plan because it lets clerics keep their new toys, but keeps a Good-aligned cleric from being the irreplaceable, bottomless well of HPs that they've become. As an additional bonus, it makes clerics of different gods even more different, which is something I'm always in favor of.
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Let clerics keep Channel. It's a fun and powerful ability, and it feeds very well into the undead/postive/negative energy thing.
But then take Sponaneous Cure/Inflict Spells away from clerics. It's modeling much the same thing as Channel does, namely that clerics are very good with positive or negative energy.
Replace Spontaneous Cure/Inflict with the ability to Spontaneously cast spells from the old 3.5 domain lists.
Excellent idea.
The 'need' for spontaneous use of curing spells has been addressed by the new Channel Energy mechanic anyway, and if a particular player feels the need to retain spontaneous Cure potential, they can take the Healing Domain.
Yep. And let's face it, if you're a Healing Cleric, you deserve to be a walking Cure wand.
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This I totally agree with.
Selective Channeling, IMO, should be built-in, and, like channeling itself, start at 3+Cha mod for people you can exclude, so that even a 1st level Cleric with a Cha of 10 can function in the 'standard' four-person adventuring group right out of the box.
I'll second this!
Also, to add my 2gp...When the cleric uses her channel energy its a Standard Action (as normal).
If she wishes to be 'Selective', this would make it a Full-round Action!
This would work well I think!
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I think it would be great for the bard to have a mass heal at an earlier level. This would solve a lot of problems :)
*My Halfling Cleric of Urgathoa is loving the negative energy with selective channeling. I really like the idea of it being "free" instead of a feat, but a full-round action to be "selective".