Well we played last night in our Savage Tide Pathfinder campain.
The players still think HotA is too powerful, and even didn't want to use it...
I think wizards would be better served with a force bolt type spell mentioned earlier. HotA is just too clumsy.
I think wizards would be better served with a force bolt type spell mentioned earlier. HotA is just too clumsy.
Seconded.
Sooooo... Does anything come out of these feedback threads? Are rules changed and errata added anywhere? Or do we just wait for the next version of the PDF to be published?
|
Sooooo... Does anything come out of these feedback threads? Are rules changed and errata added anywhere? Or do we just wait for the next version of the PDF to be published?
Sometimes Jason says, 'Yeah, I'm thinking of changing that, how about this?' Sometimes it's a month or two before he responds again to a topic. Sometimes he doesn't tell us every single thing he thinks about the 250+ separate suggestions (or, in some cases, demands) we give him every single day.
He's whacky like that.
Sooooo... Does anything come out of these feedback threads? Are rules changed and errata added anywhere? Or do we just wait for the next version of the PDF to be published?Sometimes Jason says, 'Yeah, I'm thinking of changing that, how about this?' Sometimes it's a month or two before he responds again to a topic. Sometimes he doesn't tell us every single thing he thinks about the 250+ separate suggestions (or, in some cases, demands) we give him every single day.
He's whacky like that.
I certainly get that. I'd just like to get a bone and some vague timeline (even "it's going to be a few months before I can touch this one") so I know what to expect and what to play with in my own games. I don't mind playing with a rule, but if Jason's deemed it as extinct for the next edition, I'd like to know and I'll make something else up.
Sometimes Jason says, 'Yeah, I'm thinking of changing that, how about this?' Sometimes it's a month or two before he responds again to a topic. Sometimes he doesn't tell us every single thing he thinks about the 250+ separate suggestions (or, in some cases, demands) we give him every single day.
He's whacky like that.
I think you made a typo. I think you meant to type "he's ridiculously and hopelessly overworked and has a looming deadline that is nearly impossible for him to meet".
Or maybe you didn't mean that.
Regardless, though I'm a Paizo fanboy I'm still deeply concerned that this particular product isn't getting the manpower resources it deserves, given the future of Paizo's product releases predicate on its wide-scale adoption.
This sort of product should be developed with an iterative model. Paizo proposes changes, we test and feedback. Rinse, repeat. That's happening, but very slowly, and Jason alone can't handle all the simultaneous threads needing attention.
I wish there was a "buy Jason a couple junior developers" subscription.
my cleric with the magic domain owned people with his hand of the acolyte, seriously need a bit of nerf (no bonus to damage would be nice, or bonus more like spiritual weapon)
pft that's a cleric their suppose to own. NEXT! ;D
|
Has anyone posted an account of a combat where this happened? I'm particularly interested in the distance moved and why that wasn't a fairly significant element weakening the HotA power (or else exposing the wizard to danger). Is the damage bonus the significant thing?As a Universal wizard, I love it, but, it does put the caster in danger,
because, you are concentrating on the weapon, I have been told by the gamemaster it is useable only up to 30 feet away, and if you are not
in armour, you AC is crap, so---- you can get hit.
Well, the range does extend with level, but it still seems to me that without some protection, you're still open to get hit.
I think most people here are missing the main power of this ability, and over rating other powers this ability has. While it grants their casting stat in bonus to hit and damage, this is close but not identical to the power of a two handed weapon user. A combatant of this type gets 1.5 strength damage and probably has a full base attack. Plus people forget, us included, that the weight limit of this ability is 5 lbs. This restricts the damage output to at worst a long sword or scimitar. One can get a weapon made out of mithral, but that is by no means a to-start factor, and by then a wizard probably has a much better selection of spells to spend her actions on.
Now the real power of this ability is its versatility and usefulness. This ability can grab about anything. Your trapped in some sort of cage trap. The release leaver is out of reach, bam! your out and ambushing your captive as he comes to inspect and gloat among his new captives. Personaly I think there needs to be a feat specific for this ability that lows a wizard to use half their int modifer +4 in pounds that the ability can hold to keep it being more useful in later levels, but that aside if a wizard is tricky enough it can do all sort of things, like have invisibility, stand next to a target and have the hand draw an opponent's or friend's weapon from them to help or hinder them, and then run away in the surprise round if the target was an opponent's item. I don't see why an unexpecting target would be any different that a willing target to drawing an item from them.
|
|
But every mage is surely going to otherwise have mage hand prepared as an at-will cantrip anyhow, with the new rules, right? So, as someone pointed out, HotA saves them a cantrip, but the real power of this is what it does that mage hand just can't, which is to say, hold a weapon to attack. However, as I've said, I don't think that that ability is, in itself, too good. As for unexpected removal of a weapon from an unwilling target, I just don't think that's the same as expected removal from a willing target.
I am considering ditching the Int bonus on damage.. it is a bit too good.
Please NO! Trust me, while it seems overpowered at first it is alright.
|
|
First playtest of it tonight, first level; didn't seem too powerful at all (I kept Int bonus to hit, discarded it for damage; elven wizard using a longsword), although in restricted spaces it would appear to have a large tactical advantage if it occupies the square it's in. Maybe Jason already mentioned this, but as it doesn't AoO it seems that somehow it shouldn't be able to block a square for movement through it (although what if someone tries to end the move in its square?).
It may have been covered, but can you use Arcane strike with the weapon?
It may have been covered, but can you use Arcane strike with the weapon?
Don't know, Jason said he'd get back to us but, sadly, he never did. :(
|
We just started a 1st level campaign using PF rules.
The wizard (universalist) in my game is using this ability to attack with his bonded item (a quarterstaff) and is expecting to get 1.5 INT damage since it's a two-handed weapon.
He wound up being one of the most effective combatants doing 1d6+7 points of damage each round (started with a 20 INT) with a +5 bonus to attacks. As a bonded item it will continue to get better, too.
Thoughts?
Robert
We just started a 1st level campaign using PF rules.
The wizard (universalist) in my game is using this ability to attack with his bonded item (a quarterstaff) and is expecting to get 1.5 INT damage since it's a two-handed weapon.
He wound up being one of the most effective combatants doing 1d6+7 points of damage each round (started with a 20 INT) with a +5 bonus to attacks. As a bonded item it will continue to get better, too.
Thoughts?
Robert
I'm not a big fan of the INT bonus to damage. Jason has said he's thinking of eliminating it altogether. In the game I run, I took it down to half INT bonus to damage. It's still very effective. As for 1.5xINT to damage, I think that's right out, no way I allow that. I'm not even sure HotA should be used for a Qstaff - that's a 2h weapon and it's HAND of the Apprentice, not HANDS. I think that's a long stretch of the ability.