Hey there all,
I am going to be spending some time looking deeply into some of the math behind the monk. Specifically, I am going to be looking for solutions that do not raise the monk up to a full BAB. This will not be happening.
I am open to thoughts on how to make them work without this change. Let me hear them.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
How about a bonus to attack as a Ki pool power that starts as +1 at 4th level and gains +1 every 4 levels after that to max of +5 at level 20. This way they'd be equal to fighter BAB for few strikes.
What if you gave the Monk a mechanic similar to the sniping mechanic in many games. Basically, for every round the spend focusing and meditating and channeling their chi, etc. . ., they get a +1 to attack rolls. They can do so a max of three rounds for a +3 to all attacks, (unlike snipping this lasts the entire fight).
So whilethe Cleric and Fighter draw their weapons and move to position, the Monk can do their inner calm for a +1 and step up too.
I like this idea. How about making it a scaling bonus that starts at say +1 at 1st level and increases by 1 every 5 level to max +5 at 20th level. So as they get more skilled and channeling their chi they can channel more of it over long period of time.
I think that average BAB is fine for the monk, if the penalty for using Flurry of Blows is removed... it's really punishing at low levels.
Best idea I've seen to fix it, Iziak.
Flurry of Blows (Ex): As a Full Round Action, the monk may make an extra attack at their highest Base Attack Bonus. All attacks in this round, including any AoO's performed before the start of the monk's next turn, must be performed unarmed or with one or more of the special monk's weapons. Attacks from Flurry of Blows receive no penalty to attack such as the -2 from Two-Weapon Fighting or Rapid Shot due to the monk's training.
|
The high expense of amulet of might fists, and the fact that handwraps are non-core, means that even higher level monks have a hard time hitting level-appropriate ACs with bare-hand strikes, though, particularly with the average BAB. So the solution presumably has to include more than just nixing the flurry penalty.
I've got an idea, let;s just dump the monk from core, then we can make it an uber splatbook class after the fact like all the other stuff thats been printed after the fact?
I've got an idea, let;s just dump the monk from core, then we can make it an uber splatbook class after the fact like all the other stuff thats been printed after the fact?
Printed after the fact of what? Chainmail? The monk has been around for a lo-o-o-o-o-ong time...
(To be fair, I didn't miss the monk much in the change from AD&D to 2E.)
Yeah, monk is old-school. The current monk is probably most disappointing to those of us that played 1e and remember the old monk.
On the contrary! I hated the AD&D monk, at least at low levels (d4 hit dice, world's lowest AC, mediocre attack table). I think the 3.5 version was a big improvement, again at low levels. But now it's getting worse in Pathfinder (Improved Grapple & Improved Trip got nerfed big time).
Yeah, monk is old-school. The current monk is probably most disappointing to those of us that played 1e and remember the old monk.On the contrary! I hated the AD&D monk, at least at low levels (d4 hit dice, world's lowest AC, mediocre attack table). I think the 3.5 version was a big improvement, again at low levels. But now it's getting worse in Pathfinder (Improved Grapple & Improved Trip got nerfed big time).
Oreintal adventures effectively removed the Monk from core and orientalized him. (I considered OA a splatbook)
Just because the monk has been around a loooong time (just like the bard, first ever prestige class) doesn't mean we can't remove him from core. In fact I think we should.Heck the assassin was in 1e and they removed him from core. As long as 3e existed its been a prestige class, and 2e took it out completely saying that any class could be an assassin.
It's hard to make the monk worth while without making him over powered.
If you ask me, he should be mae a bit more 1e-ish (as far as class features) mix in some sohei from old Oriental adventures, and then tak the shadow dancerand the new monk as a deck of cards and mix em together and then call it monk.
Maybe even a fighter prestige class, but at least it would be worth playing.
|
|
Yeah, monk is old-school. The current monk is probably most disappointing to those of us that played 1e and remember the old monk.On the contrary! I hated the AD&D monk, at least at low levels (d4 hit dice, world's lowest AC, mediocre attack table). I think the 3.5 version was a big improvement, again at low levels. But now it's getting worse in Pathfinder (Improved Grapple & Improved Trip got nerfed big time).
I should have said "remember and liked the old monk". 1e was like that, some classes blew at low levels; as has been discussed recently, that seems more tolerable than blowing at high levels.
I’ll throw my lot with Meepo’s idea, since it seems to be the best presented.
But I wonder why no one has suggested having the monk gain Weapon Training (monk weapons) at level 5 or something? After all it’s the only weapon group that focuses on one classes weapon choices.
Yeah, monk is old-school. The current monk is probably most disappointing to those of us that played 1e and remember the old monk.
Monk did reappear in 2e, incidentally, in the Scarlet Brotherhood sourcebook, towards the end of 2e.
Ugh. The original monk (outside of OA with interesting martial arts styles) was a pain in the ass to play. A primary melee combatant with the attack table of a cleric, d4 hit points, and a brutally punishing weapon vs armor penalty against... well, pretty much everything. Awful, really awful.