For example at 8th level give them Spell Resistance 15 + Paladin Level (the base of 15 is because I am considering house ruling Fighters getting 10 + Level at 11th and felt there should be some difference between them).
Spell resistance is something I associate with monsters, not character classes. If a character has it, I expect it to be an exotic racial trait, not a class ability. The only classes that currently get it are monks (Diamond Soul at 13th level) and sorcerers with the aberrant bloodline (at 15th level). Ever since 1st edition, monks have been famous for weird abilities that no one else gets, so no surprise there. It's telling that the only other exception is the aberrant bloodline. Otherwise, spell resistance shows up in class descriptions only for paladin mounts and wizard familiars.
Giving it to fighters feels really out of place, like I'm suddenly playing a different game (maybe Final Fantasy Tactics).
I think the idea of buffing the paladin's defensive capabilities is a good one, but if you're going to sell me the idea of spell resistance, it has to be limited in some way: uses per day, or works only against demons or summoned monsters, or a single enemy marked by a divine challenge (an interesting idea from 4e), or something like that.
And rather than fast healing (which makes the paladin feel like a troll), why not damage reduction? Already, a paladin at 17th level gets DR 5/evil. Maybe something that starts at DR 1 at low levels would be nice.
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Honestly, defensive options are cool, but the paladin is already loaded with them. I don't think anyone finds his defenses lacking, it is their offense that is, after you use your smites, economy of actions and the lackluster nature of his non-smite combat abilities means that 90% of the time you're fighting like an NPC warrior. As such IMHO offense is where we should be focusing the palladin. He needs more offensive options, passive defensive options just keep perpetuating that NPC class feel in combat.
Please refer to my thread about how we should deal with this!
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/design/clericDruidPaladin/paladinImNotSteppingOnYourToesIDeserveAPlaceTo StandToo8qnjr
I dont know how to do a link but there it is. we need to stop worrying about what we should have to sacrifice for a place to stand with the "REAL" melee guys and be MADE a REAL melee guy!
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Please refer to my thread about how we should deal with this!
I dont know how to do a link but there it is. we need to stop worrying about what we should have to sacrifice for a place to stand with the "REAL" melee guys and be MADE a REAL melee guy!
By the way Vult you can see the different tags you can use by clicking the BBCode tags you can use spoiler located underneath the dialoge box when composing a message ;)
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I'd like to propose an active defense idea for paladins: the defense of others.
This could take a lot of forms. The paladin could redirect magic targeted on allies to himself, in the hopes his save bonuses and immunities will help him succeed. He could forego his shield bonus to grant it to adjacent allies, or to intercept magical rays. He could, like the knight, make the terrain around him difficult to traverse, so he can actually provide a screen of protection to those behind him.
Counters are defensive in nature, yet they require actions on the player's part, and would let the defensive nature of the paladin still be appealing and fun to play.
Please refer to my thread about how we should deal with this!
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/design/clericDruidPaladin/paladinImNotSteppingOnYourToesIDeserveAPlaceTo StandToo8qnjr
I dont know how to do a link but there it is. we need to stop worrying about what we should have to sacrifice for a place to stand with the "REAL" melee guys and be MADE a REAL melee guy!
Thanks for the link, although the implication that this thread is redundant and that we need to stop being pansies makes it feel like a threadjack. The OP wanted to talk specifically about defensive options.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I think there is too much emphasis on offense for improving the Paladin. I have suggested in other places increasing both the effects of Smite Evil and the number of uses per day. I have supported adding effects to Smite. I have even proposed a new per battle ability that gave a bonus against a designated evil creature that would stack with Smite. Only so much can be done with regard to offense without overlapping other melee classes.
Perhaps a new direction. Defensive capabilities that work to keep a Paladin in the fight longer.
For example at 8th level give them Spell Resistance 15 + Paladin Level (the base of 15 is because I am considering house ruling Fighters getting 10 + Level at 11th and felt there should be some difference between them).
Also, starting at 5th level give them Fast Healing 2 increasing to 3 at 10, 4 at 15, and 5 at 20. They would no longer need out of combat healing leading to "Tend to the others, they need it more than I".
These two changes would give the Paladin better staying power (arguments about fights not lasting more than 3 rounds aside).
There is already a precedent for SR vs. evil spells (as in, with the evil descriptor) and spells used by evil casters in the holy aura spell.
Perhaps this might be a place to work with the paladin's abilities as a continuous effect as he goes up levels (these abilities would also affect your divine bonded mount when you were riding it):
4th level - continuous protection from evil
8th level - continuous magic circle against evil
12th level - continuous prayer
16th level - continuous dispel evil (if you use it to banish or dispel, you can reactivate it as a free action on your next turn)
20th level - continuous holy aura (self only)
If you think continuous effects like these are too much, then key them off of channel energy (fire up a channel and get the effect) or lay on hands (ditto).
4th level - continuous protection from evil
8th level - continuous magic circle against evil
12th level - continuous prayer
16th level - continuous dispel evil (you can reactivate it as a free action on your next turn)
20th level - continuous holy aura (self only)
Ooh! More auras! I like it!
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I'd like to propose an active defense idea for paladins: the defense of others.
This could take a lot of forms. The paladin could redirect magic targeted on allies to himself, in the hopes his save bonuses and immunities will help him succeed. He could forego his shield bonus to grant it to adjacent allies, or to intercept magical rays. He could, like the knight, make the terrain around him difficult to traverse, so he can actually provide a screen of protection to those behind him.
Counters are defensive in nature, yet they require actions on the player's part, and would let the defensive nature of the paladin still be appealing and fun to play.
This I could get behind. When thinking about it, I don't have a problem with defenses if they are active. Passive always on defenses just get added to the sheet and are only appreciated when seen, (ask yourselves how many times each session you are really glad you are immune to disease, or fear, or heck even that you have a +3 to reflex saves if they aren't being called for) If a paladin can make active choices to defend allies, then he would feel a lot better while doing so.
Thanks for the link, although the implication that this thread is redundant and that we need to stop being pansies makes it feel like a threadjack. The OP wanted to talk specifically about defensive options.Please refer to my thread about how we should deal with this!
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/design/clericDruidPaladin/paladinImNotSteppingOnYourToesIDeserveAPlaceTo StandToo8qnjr
I dont know how to do a link but there it is. we need to stop worrying about what we should have to sacrifice for a place to stand with the "REAL" melee guys and be MADE a REAL melee guy!
I am sorry if that is what it seemed like, that was not the intent.
This thread actually started in MY thread..so was that a threadjack? I am not really worried about that...I am looking for all the great ideas for paladins. I just feel like we are all walking all over each other to get to the goal. This poster is right, the paladin needs more defense. Other posters are right, the paladin needs more healing/utility. Then others are right that we need more offense.
The problem is when people want to sacrifice something completely. Yes, I have said that I would not mind if we sacrificed a little casting to get more offense...but I dont feel like we should have to!
Truth is if we would just all support each other then the changes that we want would happen. It looks more like people jumping over people to have their ideas heard here. I dont care if it is my idea that gets put in the book or someone elses as long as the paladin wins in the end. As we bicker amongst ourselves we are wasting precious time. We need to take the next few days (for that is all we have left) to actually do some good for the paladin.
I apologize if I threadjacked here. The OP has some great ideas and I fully agree with what he is trying to do. But please do not sacrifice anything....the paladin should get what he has suggested without loosing any of his other abilities.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Ooh! More auras! I like it!4th level - continuous protection from evil
8th level - continuous magic circle against evil
12th level - continuous prayer
16th level - continuous dispel evil (you can reactivate it as a free action on your next turn)
20th level - continuous holy aura (self only)
Glad you enjoyed. I realized I forgot to put something in my original post, though, which was basically that I think I could really get behind paladins as a class ability gaining SR vs. evil spells & evil casters as a class feature.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind them getting it at 1st level and having it just be a flat 10 + paladin level all the way up. Might be nice for a dip at low levels, but would be completely useless by mid to high levels for anyone but a full-time (or mostly) paladin.
Perhaps to avoid dippage bring it in somewhere in level 6-10 range.
It is slightly less good defensively than the monk/aberrant sorcerer's SR, but for one little point that actually makes it much nicer (and also really fits with a paladin's lawful/team-oriented ethos):
It doesn't block friendly beneficial spells, which is one of the great annoyances for characters with SR (and a rule which I ruthlessly enforce as a DM when PCs get SR) - it works against EVERYTHING except your own spells you cast on yourself. More than one friendly spell has been fizzled that way.
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Continuing the Defensive Theme with active defense ideas:
Active Defense for Paladins:
Intercept Attacks:
- Give up Attack of Opportunity use to interpose Shield between 1 attack and adjacent ally. Options:
1. Ally gains Shield + Cha bonus to AC for one attack.
2. Paladin rolls attack at full attack bonus. If he equals or exceed's enemy's attack roll, he negates the attack. - The paladin can attempt to distract an enemy spellcaster to make himself the intended target instead of his ally. The enemy must be able to see or hear the paladin. As an immediate action the paladin can call attention to himself when he sees an enemy begin casting a spell or using a spell like ability. If the caster fails a Will save vs. DC 10 + 1/2 Paladin Level + Charisma bonus, he targets the paladin instead of the paladin's ally with the spell or spell like ability. The paladin's distraction automatically fails if he cannot be the target of the spell or spell like ability (due to being out of range of the spell, for example).
- As an immediate action a paladin can use an attack of opportunity to take a 5' step to intercept a charge. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the charger, with charge bonuses, but also halts the charger's movement.
Impede the enemy:
- If the paladin does not move more than 5' during his turn he can plant himself defensively within his space, and the area he threatens becomes difficult terrain for his enemies. This lasts until the end of his next turn.
- If a paladin hits during an Attack of Opportunity provoked by movement, he stops the enemy's movement for that round.
- A paladin's righteous glare can be unnerving to even the bravest enemies. The DC for casting defensively in the area a paladin threatens is increased by his charisma modifier.
- A paladin is ready for even craven actions by the enemy. Withdrawal actions still provoke an attack of opportunity from a Paladin that moves less than 5' during his action. This lasts until the end of his next turn.
Any other ideas for active defenses?
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Continuing the Defensive Theme with active defense ideas:
Active Defense for Paladins:
Intercept Attacks:
- Give up Attack of Opportunity use to interpose Shield between 1 attack and adjacent ally. Options:
1. Ally gains Shield + Cha bonus to AC for one attack.
2. Paladin rolls attack at full attack bonus. If he equals or exceed's enemy's attack roll, he negates the attack.- The paladin can attempt to distract an enemy spellcaster to make himself the intended target instead of his ally. The enemy must be able to see or hear the paladin. As an immediate action the paladin can call attention to himself when he sees an enemy begin casting a spell or using a spell like ability. If the caster fails a Will save vs. DC 10 + 1/2 Paladin Level + Charisma bonus, he targets the paladin instead of the paladin's ally with the spell or spell like ability. The paladin's distraction automatically fails if he cannot be the target of the spell or spell like ability (due to being out of range of the spell, for example).
- As an immediate action a paladin can use an attack of opportunity to take a 5' step to intercept a charge. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the charger, with charge bonuses, but also halts the charger's movement.
Impede the enemy:
[list]
If the paladin does not move more than 5' during his turn he can plant himself defensively within his space, and the area he threatens becomes difficult terrain for his enemies. This lasts until the end of his next turn. If a paladin hits during an Attack of Opportunity provoked by movement, he stops the enemy's movement for that round. A paladin's righteous glare can be unnerving to even the bravest enemies. The DC for casting defensively in the area a paladin threatens is increased by his charisma modifier. A paladin is ready for even craven actions by the enemy. Withdrawal actions still provoke an attack of opportunity from a Paladin that moves less than 5' during his action. This...
Those are all pretty awesome Jess, I'm a bigger fan of the shield block option two since that reflect the parrying mechanic I've been talking about for years.
the only thing is that some of these abilitys kinda steal from the knight, specifically the shout that makes spellcasters target you and the difficult terrain. still great suggestions
Jess, why not make all these combat feats? Paladins could still take them, but fighters could get some ability to control the battlefield as well. (It'd more or less be limited to them anyway, because I figure everyone else has more important things to spend their feats on.)
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Those are all pretty awesome Jess, I'm a bigger fan of the shield block option two since that reflect the parrying mechanic I've been talking about for years.
the only thing is that some of these abilitys kinda steal from the knight, specifically the shout that makes spellcasters target you and the difficult terrain. still great suggestions
I haven't read the knight in forever, so they could very well be very similar. As the Knight is not OGL and therefore not within the scope, I don't feel bad stealing a bit of his thunder for the poor abused paladin.
Maybe these ideas would have to be modified because they're too close to knight class abilities, but as I haven't even looked at the knight class in over a year, it's not soemthing I've done on purpose.
Jess, why not make all these combat feats? Paladins could still take them, but fighters could get some ability to control the battlefield as well. (It'd more or less be limited to them anyway, because I figure everyone else has more important things to spend their feats on.)
Some of these could be combat feats, some should be. I'd like to see the ability to add your Cha mod to the DC of defensive casting be a things for Paladins only. The DC should normally be dependent on the threatening enemy's BaB - or defensive casting should be done away with altogether, imho. The shield block should be a feat available to sword and board users to make that character choice suck less, along with the cool suggestions like adding shield to touch AC or reflex saves, etc.
If you will forgive a slight digression, I think shield bashing is the worst direction to go in for sword and board - look! spend an extra feat to get a different sub-optimal option! No, sword and board should be about being the annoying energizer bunny. If you ignore him, he won't hurt you as badly as the two handed weapon fighter, but he'll interfere with everything you try to do until you want to scream in frustration. I want the sword and board guy to harry enemies not with massive damage, but by making many of their actions ineffective or much less effective, until they have to pay attention to you to get anything accomplished. That would be fun.
the DC of defensive casting should normally be dependent on the threatening enemy's BaB - or defensive casting should be done away with altogether, imho.
If you will forgive a slight digression, I think shield bashing is the worst direction to go in for sword and board - look! spend an extra feat to get a different sub-optimal option!
Quit reading my mind! It's not fair!
Oh, wait... Maybe you've just been reading some of my posts...Or maybe these ideas make so much sense that nearly everyone has them?
The idea of spell resistance is intriguing (as are most ideas on this thread), but it feels like ideas are drifting so far away from the base rules for a paladin they're either going to overpower them or change them entirely.
For spell resistance, why not give the Paladin "Mettle" (or an OGL-friendly equivalent)? With a Paladin's high saves, divine grace, etc. it means that the Paladin can shrug off most Fortitude and Will save spells anyway, so make them generally immune to them. This is in keeping with the flavor of Paladin, without overpowering them with spell resistance.
Alternatively, why not build it into the Paladin's bonded weapon? The weapon, when held aloft, can absorb attack spells? A limited number of spell levels per day (Paladin's Level per day is the number that leaps out to me) can be absorbed if they target the Paladin or (s)he is in the area of effect. This fits in with the new Bonded Weapon mechanic (and helps balance it if the improvements to Paladin Mounts discussed elsewhere are implemented), and also fits with the classic image of a heroic knight turning back a wizard's spell with his sword.
Some of these could be combat feats, some should be. I'd like to see the ability to add your Cha mod to the DC of defensive casting be a things for Paladins only. The DC should normally be dependent on the threatening enemy's BaB - or defensive casting should be done away with altogether, imho. The shield block should be a feat available to sword and board users to make that character choice suck less, along with the cool suggestions like adding shield to touch AC or reflex saves, etc.
Why not make the combat feats, available to all, with the usual stringent requirements, and give the Paladin an option of selecting them at certain levels without needing the prequisites, in the same way as a Monk?
After reading this thread and Lastknightleft's thread about Aura of Good, I've come upon a thought about how the Paladin should be represented in combat by the rules. I think most people would agree that, as a martial warrior, the Paladin is best characterized as being a protector of allies and champion vs. evil. Sticking to this idea would distinguish the Paladin from the other 3 warrior classes in a unique way.
Drawing from the ideas presented in the 2 above mentioned threads, I feel that the Paladin can fulfill this representation with the manipulation of the holy auras. Jason Bulmahn has listed several auras that the Paladin gains with level, which I think could be expanded upon. As well, I like the ideas presented here, but I think they could be tweaked a bit more to better represent the Paladin as a protector and champion vs. evil. I'm not fond of the auras duplicating spells necessarily, as it seems to be overlap amongst other classes - clerics in particular. The Cleric and the Paladin are both extensions of their deity, but their power should manifest in different ways. In other words Clerics pray as needed to accomplish their deities goals (i.e. spells) whereas Paladins are chosen holy warriors and thus exude divine power with their being (i.e. auras).
I would like to see a list of auras that the Paladin character could choose from as they rise in level much the same as Rogues choose talents and Barbarians choose rage powers. These powers should bring out the character of the Paladin as a protector and champion vs. evil.
Some rules governing all suggested powers:
1) they emanate from the Paladin to a radius 20'-30'.
2) most aura powers function only vs. evil opponents.
3) high level powers should be pretty powerfull.
4) certain ones could be considered always on, while others need to be activated.
5) certain powers affect the Paladin only.
6) having the powers scale with level is debatable.
Some of my personal suggestions:
1. Aura of Confidence The Paladin gains +2 to melee attacks vs. evil opponents and all allies within 30' gain a +1 morale bonus to melee attacks vs. evil opponents.
2. Aura of Invincibility The Paladin gains a +2 morale bonus to AC vs. evil opponents and all allies within 30' gain a +1 morale bonus.
3. Aura of Healing As a standard action, the Paladin and all allies within 30' gain fast healing 5 for a number of rounds equal to the Paladin's Cha bonus. The Paladin must be at least 12th level to choose this aura.
4. Aura of Courage similar to that presented in the Pathfinder rule book.
5. Aura of Divine Protection As a swift action the Paladin gains a 20% miss chance vs. evil opponents. This last a number of rounds equal to his Cha bonus. The Paladin must be at least 12th level to choose this aura.
6. there are many options...
In the end, I see the Paladin as a passive aggressive combatant. Keeping with this philosophy will differentiate him from the other martial classes and give players real choice when choosing a class.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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After reading this thread and Lastknightleft's thread about Aura of Good, I've come upon a thought about how the Paladin should be represented in combat by the rules. I think most people would agree that, as a martial warrior, the Paladin is best characterized as being a protector of allies and champion vs. evil. Sticking to this idea would distinguish the Paladin from the other 3 warrior classes in a unique way.
Drawing from the ideas presented in the 2 above mentioned threads, I feel that the Paladin can fulfill this representation with the manipulation of the holy auras. Jason Bulmahn has listed several auras that the Paladin gains with level, which I think could be expanded upon. As well, I like the ideas presented here, but I think they could be tweaked a bit more to better represent the Paladin as a protector and champion vs. evil. I'm not fond of the auras duplicating spells necessarily, as it seems to be overlap amongst other classes - clerics in particular. The Cleric and the Paladin are both extensions of their deity, but their power should manifest in different ways. In other words Clerics pray as needed to accomplish their deities goals (i.e. spells) whereas Paladins are chosen holy warriors and thus exude divine power with their being (i.e. auras).
I would like to see a list of auras that the Paladin character could choose from as they rise in level much the same as Rogues choose talents and Barbarians choose rage powers. These powers should bring out the character of the Paladin as a protector and champion vs. evil.
Some rules governing all suggested powers:
1) they emanate from the Paladin to a radius 20'-30'.
2) most aura powers function only vs. evil opponents.
3) high level powers should be pretty powerfull.
4) certain ones could be considered always on, while others need to be activated.
5) certain powers affect the Paladin only.
6) having the powers scale with level is debatable.Some of my personal suggestions:
1. Aura of Confidence The Paladin...
I like your suggestions. Nicely done.
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the DC of defensive casting should normally be dependent on the threatening enemy's BaB - or defensive casting should be done away with altogether, imho.
If you will forgive a slight digression, I think shield bashing is the worst direction to go in for sword and board - look! spend an extra feat to get a different sub-optimal option!Quit reading my mind! It's not fair!
Oh, wait... Maybe you've just been reading some of my posts...
Or maybe these ideas make so much sense that nearly everyone has them?
I have been reading your posts. I'm pretty sure I've posted in some of them.
I'm a dork with a natural tendency to think about numbers and statistics. I'm also a sucker for just about any story. And I want to play martial characters...but they honestly, have sucked so much, I never bothered until Tome of Battle came out. Suddenly, being martial was as fun as I wanted it to be! Crusaders were what paladins should have been. Warblades were able to do the things fighters should have been able to do. And swordsages were the best of dextrous fighters like the swashbuckler and monk. :)
I want to find a way to make the base martial classes fun and relevent. It's nice to have a fallback such as the Tome of Battle, but I'd rather take the ideas from there and put them into the base classes, without having to introduce a semi-casting mechanic. Much of what you have to say resonates with these desires, and most of my ideas and concerns for Pathfinder RPG lies with fixing these balance issues to make pathfinder a stable system for a long time to come!
I want to play martial characters... but they honestly, have sucked so much, I never bothered until Tome of Battle came out. I want to find a way to make the base martial classes fun and relevent. It's nice to have a fallback such as the Tome of Battle, but I'd rather take the ideas from there and put them into the base classes, without having to introduce a semi-casting mechanic.
You and I certainly see eye to eye (your point-by-point summary halfway down page 5 of the "fighters - broken!" thread hit every nail squarely on the head, all the way across the board, as far as I'm concerned). I'll admit that I lack your enthusiasm over the ToB (found the mechanics slightly contrived and very counterintuitive, for some reason -- I would have even preferred the maneuvers presented as a "spells per day" list, to be honest), but I loved the attempt to make martial classes be able to DO things. Your attempts at making that possible, without the clunky mechanics, therefore receive my wholehearted support.
Director of Games
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Although I plan to alter some of the auras, I do not think that paladin's should get SR. They already have pretty solid saving throws (and I am considering giving them good Will), making SR just a bit too much.
I will ruminate on some of the other ideas in this thread.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
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Although I plan to alter some of the auras, I do not think that paladin's should get SR. They already have pretty solid saving throws (and I am considering giving them good Will), making SR just a bit too much.
I will ruminate on some of the other ideas in this thread.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
Oh god please yes good will, good will good will ftw
Although I plan to alter some of the auras, I do not think that paladin's should get SR. They already have pretty solid saving throws (and I am considering giving them good Will), making SR just a bit too much.
That's OK, I'll just add it back to the holy avenger by houserule, like in 1st edition!
I miss the old holy avenger... what a cool sword that was.
I am sorry if that is what it seemed like, that was not the intent.
This thread actually started in MY thread..so was that a threadjack? I am not really worried about that...I am looking for all the great ideas for paladins. I just feel like we are all walking all over each other to get to the goal. This poster is right, the paladin needs more defense. Other posters are right, the paladin needs more healing/utility. Then others are right that we need more offense.
The problem is when people want to sacrifice something completely. Yes, I have said that I would not mind if we sacrificed a little casting to get more offense...but I dont feel like we should have to!
Truth is if we would just all support each other then the changes that we want would happen. It looks more like people jumping over people to have their ideas heard here. I dont care if it is my idea that gets put in the book or someone elses as long as the paladin wins in the end. As we bicker amongst ourselves we are wasting precious time. We need to take the next few days (for that is all we have left) to actually do some good for the paladin.
I apologize if I threadjacked here. The OP has some great ideas and I fully agree with what he is trying to do. But please do not sacrifice anything....the paladin should get what he has suggested...
My mistake. This was the first paladin thread I visited, and I read only enough of the linked thread to decide that the two were not redundant. I'm happy to admit I got the wrong idea.
I think my favorite ideas in this thread are good will save, the various "impede enemy" suggestions, and the ability to negate enemy attacks against allies. For that last, I had another idea of how it might work:
Indignant Defender: Triggered as a response to any attack against an adjacent ally from an enemy within the space threatened by the paladin, grants the paladin an immediate attack of opportunity against that enemy, resolved before the enemy's attack. The attack counts normally against the paladin's number of attacks of opportunity in that round, and is not possible if all such attacks have already been spent. If the paladin's attack hits and the enemy survives the attack, the enemy still must succeed at an opposed charisma check or his attack is negated. The paladin can apply his shield bonus to the check.
I don't think it should work against ranged attacks, because I think it's more a charisma effect than a reflex effect (the paladin is not a ninja who catches arrows). I'm not really excited about shield intercept ideas that provide an ability unusable without a shield.
His comrades wracked by waves of despair and confusion, the paladin raised their holy sword into the air, defying the demon lord before them. With a flash of holy light, a wave of purifying energy swept over his allies dispelling the fiend's supernatural hold over the heroes' minds. "Now then," challenged the dauntless knight, "let's see how well you fight when you can't cheat!"
This would be a Channel Energy/LoH usage that causes a Dispel Evil-like effect over one's allies. Unlike the spell, it would be an instantaneous and area-based (or perhaps 1 target in range per X levels). While I wouldn't suggest having this dispel everything that could affect a character in one pass, I think it should certainly dispel any/all darkness, compulsion, and fear effects.
Alternatively, it could simply allow everyone in the party to make new saves against any ongoing effects that are impeding them. In order to keep it in-line power-wise, I'd use a Paladin level check result as the new save result.
Enemies with an ability to recreate such effects at will would have to wait until their next turn to do so.
As for the level at which such an ability is gained, I see it coming sometime after the Paladin gains Aura of Resolve.
What do you think?
His comrades wracked by waves of despair and confusion, the paladin raised their holy sword into the air, defying the demon lord before them. With a flash of holy light, a wave of purifying energy swept over his allies dispelling the fiend's supernatural hold over the heroes' minds. "Now then," challenged the dauntless knight, "let's see how well you fight when you can't cheat!"
This would be a Channel Energy/LoH usage that causes a Dispel Evil-like effect over one's allies. Unlike the spell, it would be an instantaneous and area-based (or perhaps 1 target in range per X levels). While I wouldn't suggest having this dispel everything that could affect a character in one pass, I think it should certainly dispel any/all darkness, compulsion, and fear effects.
Alternatively, it could simply allow everyone in the party to make new saves against any ongoing effects that are impeding them. In order to keep it in-line power-wise, I'd use a Paladin level check result as the new save result.
Enemies with an ability to recreate such effects at will would have to wait until their next turn to do so.
As for the level at which such an ability is gained, I see it coming sometime after the Paladin gains Aura of Resolve.
What do you think?
The ability to clear status effects seems in line with the paladin's ability to cure disease, remove curse, break enchantment, etc. and it's a useful ability during combat. I like the idea of allowing new saves against ongoing effects. I wonder if it can clear an effect like slow.
Aura of Resolve is gained at 8th level, just so no one has to look it up.
What if the paladin's ability to defend an ally grew stronger in proportion to the weakness of the ally? That would give the paladin the opportunity to shine as a champion of the weak and defenseless, and might help balance an otherwise overpowered ability (since party members near the same level would benefit less).
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UPDATE ALERT: A REVISED VERSION OF THE BETA PALADIN HAS BEEN POSTED BY JASON ON THIS THREAD.
Check it out, and save yourselves debating changes that have already occurred!