Do Alter Self and Infuse Self allow for alternate racial traits?
Could you use Alter Self to polymorph into a Half-Orc that has Toothy instead of Orc Ferocity to gain a Bite attack?
Could you use Infuse Self to polymorph into a Tiefling that has Maw or Claw instead of their spell-like ability to gain 2 Claw attacks?
What about using Infuse Self to turn into an Aasimar with the Deathless Spirit racial trait to gain Negative Energy Resistance 5 and a +2 bonus on saving throws against death effects, energy drain, negative energy, and spells or spell-like abilities of the necromancy school?
I can't find anything that specifically disallows this but "not allowed" isn't always the same thing as "allowed" in Pathfinder.
I believe the key factor would be this excerpt from the CRB's Magic chapter, under the polymorph subschool:
Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type.
Since a generic member of that race would not, by definition, have any "alternate" racial traits, the official answer is quite clear.
That said, I think there's room for house rules here. Or even for new rules options, like an arcane exploit that allows you to alter polymorph spells this way. ^_^
I believe the key factor would be this excerpt from the CRB's Magic chapter, under the polymorph subschool:
Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type.Since a generic member of that race would not, by definition, have any "alternate" racial traits, the official answer is quite clear.
I saw that but didn't think it applied because of the context of the statement:
Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature's type.
I interpreted it as being just a restriction on being able to impersonate specific people. "Appearance" also doesn't really prevent alternate racial traits that don't rely on appearance, like the Aasimar's Deathless Spirit.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I can't find anything that specifically disallows this
You would need to find something that specifically does allow it, not vice versa. Spells do what they say they do, they don't also give you free traits, or the ability to swap between them.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
see Transmutation school. It explains that you only gain X and not any of the new forms racial abilities, and lose most stuff tied to your original form.
One of the Xes you get are natural attacks, and some examples Taudis mentions are racial traits giving natural attacks.
If you could transform into a Toothy half-orc or a Maw or Claw'ed tiefling, you would get their natural attacks.
But in general, I'd say you can't transform into them in the first place, because nothing says that you can.
I really doubt it was intended that Alter Self only let you become the most common ethnicity of a species. Several alternate racial traits aren't the result of exceptional individuals but ethnicity and sub-species (most blatant is the half-elf options for half-drow, but some others exist).
This is one of the main reasons that I don't think that line of text actually bars you. It even might have the same mechanical implications, since half-drow could have Darkvision, which is granted by Alter Self.
One of the Xes you get are natural attacks, and some examples Taudis mentions are racial traits giving natural attacks. [...] But in general, I'd say you can't transform into them in the first place, because nothing says that you can.
Thanks for pointing that out. Infuse Self would also give the abilities I noted for the Aasimar if the alternate racial trait were allowed to qualify.
The "nothing saying you can even when there's nothing that says you can't" is definitely where my hesitation is.
hmmm... using polymorph to change into a creature with specific racial traits. It goes against the mandate from the CRB (quoted above) that the end form is a generic member of a (racial)type. Alternate racial traits are uncommon variances from the normal traits. Thus not generic, and No.
I'd talk to your home GM. There is room in game balance for a little give in this area.
I still think the "generic" line is just an explanation to the sentence before it. It's very hard to read that as anything but a restriction on using a 2nd level spell to pretend to be the local king when it's read in context.
FWIW, I am the GM. My playgroup happens to particularly enjoy Polymorph spells, so I end up on here checking certain implications. I prefer to check to see if there has been some kind of official word or at least some forum groupthink conclusion before making a ruling. I always assume the most conservative ruling possible as a player, and if that's something I'll still accept, then I go ask the DM if they'd give a less conservative ruling. No disappointment or builds falling apart that way.
I'd personally like to allow it for Alter Self because it doesn't change anything the spell can already do - the game won't break because you turned into a Half-Orc for a bite attack and Darkvision when you could already be a Troglodyte and get 2 claws on top of that.
It's a slightly bigger concern for Infuse Self, since allowing alternate racial traits allows it to do new things. I'm erring on the side of saying yes, since it's not more powerful than similar Polymorph options at that spell level, like Monstrous Physique I. I was hoping that someone might have had a clear answer that my search-fu hadn't uncovered.