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Okay, just by *LOOKING* at this feat I can't honestly believe no one has made this discovery. Travel domain's dimensional hop is...
...broken!
10 ft./lvl/day worth of teleporting as a swift action, divided as you choose into 5 ft-increments. What does this mean?
After gaining more levels the cleric is able to bypass many obstacles that would normally require a rogue or something. This ability could have serious impacts on adventures which present you an impenetrable door and such.
Also this cleric on higher levels could hop around with the swift action and make a full-attack. Almost every time if his/her daily usage isn't depleted. Although the cleric's BAB isn't all that great, this is still a major issue. It also gives the cleric is serious advantage with spellcasting.
The last thing is grappling; really, no one will ever grapple this cleric and succeed. No one. Nada. Zippo. Absolutely no-friggin'-one.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Let the cleric bypass them. As a DM I'm always happy when the party splits up, especially if one PC is alone. Whatever is on the other side of the obsticle can deal with the cleric alone while the rest of the party is on the other side, and when they finally get through, they won't have their primary healer.
Okay, just by *LOOKING* at this feat I can't honestly believe no one has made this discovery. Travel domain's dimensional hop is...
...broken!
10 ft./lvl/day worth of teleporting as a swift action, divided as you choose into 5 ft-increments. What does this mean?
After gaining more levels the cleric is able to bypass many obstacles that would normally require a rogue or something. This ability could have serious impacts on adventures which present you an impenetrable door and such.
Also this cleric on higher levels could hop around with the swift action and make a full-attack. Almost every time if his/her daily usage isn't depleted. Although the cleric's BAB isn't all that great, this is still a major issue. It also gives the cleric is serious advantage with spellcasting.
The last thing is grappling; really, no one will ever grapple this cleric and succeed. No one. Nada. Zippo. Absolutely no-friggin'-one.
Okay, first up, there's a line-of-sight issue. With my game group, we require line-of-sight for this teleportation ability. Yes, there are other spells that don't require it, but this seemed reasonable. Poof, this ability becomes cool, not overpowered.
As for pulling a full attack, yeah, okay, fine. You get movement plus a full attack. Great. By the time you've got iterative attacks, a cleric has a LOT better things to do with his actions that swing a mace a few times. Or he should have.
There are a lot of (cheap) items in the Magic Item Compendium that allow short range teleports. They're get-out-of-grapple-free cards, to a certain degree. So be it. Engage, grapple, swallow whole is a really miserable fate and having a character who isn't susceptible to it introduces some potentially interesting tactics.
I'm playing a Travel Domain cleric right now. The ability has been used in two encounters, and in both cases, it was used to literally save the lives of companions by teleporting their unconscious bodies out of danger, one involving unconsciousness and drowning. Move, touch, teleport. Suddenly the cleric becomes a TPK-prevention machine.
Seriously, in my group, TPKs happen frequently because of the reluctance to sacrifice a fallen companion. Being able to QUICKLY extract an unconscious buddy is really, really helpful to player morale.
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Yes, because one person having a useful ability is broken. I'm sure the cleric will be happy to have that ability when your wisdom-draining incorporal beastie comes after him. Don't flip out over one little power until you analyze all the angles. And in D&D, the angles are only limited by your imagination.
I should also mention that rings of freedom of movement make grapples irrelevant too. Also Vow of Poverty at high enough levels.
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jeje was thinking the same
while its nice to see a "quick step" cleric the fact that he endangers himself by going alone like that are pretty much
ok its one kind of cleric who would not be grappled... just notice it is finite
any way sounds interesting, i actually like it... even as an NPC opposed to the players... ah the imageof the cleric who you are talking a moment and the enxt heis flriting with one of the female characters a few steps behind you... very very Cayde Cailean
I considered taking Travel for a Cleric I'm playing in a CotCT PbP,
but all the higher level abilities didn't make a flavor that worked for me, even though I liked the teleport ability. I mainly just didn't want to always have the Flying option on the table, I'll pick up a magic item that lets me do that if I really need it...
(I ended up with Luck and Protection)
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I'm playing a Travel Domain cleric right now. The ability has been used in two encounters, and in both cases, it was used to literally save the lives of companions by teleporting their unconscious bodies out of danger, one involving...
DAMN, THAT IS A COOL WAY OF USING IT!
je would have liked to think of that...well since my cleric is always in the forefront of battle she was Sun and Glory Domains.... and unfortunately Iomedae doesn gives Travel Domain, snif :P
It is kindof cheap that the Travel ability is a swift action,
yet the other Domains' (Touch of X) are standard actions. Using Touch of X basically is the same as casting a spell. I don't necessarily think there's a problem with Travel's Teleport being a swift actions, but all the other abilities should get this as well.
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Intriguing. When this was brought to the attention of rule crunchers, they saw this as broken. Is it merely a way of conversation on Paizo's messageboards to be irritatingly nonchalant about issues that do matter regarding game balance? If you were to run a Pathfinder RPG game with strangers as players you really need to have the same rules and not implement odd restrictions and allow stuff that would normally not be. Particularly in Pathfinder Society it'd be essential to have all the broken stuff be fixed.
@JoelF847: He can bring companions. To bring all max 5 companions with him he needs to use only 30 ft of movement. 3rd level, that is. Besides, I haven't experienced this at any of my gaming table, so why the irrelevant advice?
@Anguish: Right, you play it the way you see fit. However, it should also mention the requirement of Line-of-sight in the rules text quite as well! Also, when would the cleric want a full-attack? Well, let's say Divine Power! Good, I answered that question.
What Magic Item Compendium might hold is completely irrelevant. Besides that item a) costs money (albeit not much), b) is limited to two times per day, and only 10 ft each.
And really, should one ability suddenly change the tide of battle? You mentioned that your ability prevented TPKs. Whereas that might look like a nice way to keep your team virtually immortal, it just isn't simple...
If in your play group people aren't brave enough to do daring attempts, it is not my problem. TPKs happen due to ulterior reasons, maybe blood lust, I don't know. Most DMs don't run super-deadly adventures, and in those adventures the Travel domain's Dimensional Hop ability is too powerful.
@TriOmegaZero: Useful and broken differ a lot. This ability would be useful even if toned down. And don't you see from your own text that suddenly the cleric is able to avoid almost *ANY* danger? And I assure you, I have analyzed the issue far more than an average person would have.
And yes, Ring of Freedom of Movement is powerful. That's why it costs 40 000 gp, yet it still lacks from what Dimensional Hop is capable of.
I would personally find the ability far more balanced, and still useful, if it used a move action and required a line-of-sight.
I wouldn't call this ability "broken" (which I usually reserve for spells & abilities that require a "gentlemen's agreement" to never use). But it certainly beats the snot out of a lot of 1st level (or even 8th level) domain powers!
I don't find easy to "balance" the ability because the daily allotment will mean a lot of things depending on how "action packed" a day of adventure is and how many dire straits situations in which the ability would be useful the cleric is faced with. That is typical of many abilities and hard to fix. A "day in the city" with an ambush attack and a break-in in a secret vault some hours later is very different from a "day in a 2-level dungeon packed with monsters and traps and with few chances to rest and retreat".
To me, the kinda overpowered issue is the amount of people the cleric can take from really low levels onwards. I would change the power into something like "the maximum number of people affected is one (caster) plus an extra person per 3 additional cleric levels". That means that the cleric has to be 10th level to be able to teleport with the default party of four (no cohorts or NPCs), and then a reduced distance.
As for the "solo" usages, I see no great problem the way the power works. Going "alone" or splitting the party have risks of their own that the DM can take advantage of to challenge the players. One of my players has a cleric (Desna) with the domain, and she has used the power in far less occasions than one would expect, and primarily defensively. Also, the party tends to stay quite apart in melee (and our cleric is not a melee warrior but a backline spellcaster), so the usage to put others out of harm's way is quite reduced.
For things like crossing abysses and helping getting a bit of an advantage over flying creatures, it feels quite ok and in spirit for the domain's nature.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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@JoelF847: He can bring companions. To bring all max 5 companions with him he needs to use only 30 ft of movement. 3rd level, that is. Besides, I haven't experienced this at any of my gaming table, so why the irrelevant advice?
I'm sorry that my general advise doesn't fit your game table experiences. However, I don't believe that makes it irrelevant.
As you point out, bringing the cleric's 5 companions uses up 6 times the resources for this power, which drastically lowers the amount that it can be used. For many obsticles, the cleric will also need to use the ability to get back to the starting point, which further dilutes the amount they have left for the day. Also, you're assuming a thin barrier that only requires 5' of movement. If we instead consider a 30' chasm or moat, then a party of 6 would require 180 feet of movement to cross it, which requires an 18th level cleric. If this is standard operating procedure, then the cleric will rapidly find that they don't have enough to escape grapples, hop around the battle field and get their full attacks, etc.
I still don't think this is broken. It could need some tweaking, such as maybe charging 10 feet of movement to add each additional creature, so that our theoretical party of 6 would then require 55' to hop a total distance of 5' (5 for the actual movement of the cleric, and 50 more to add 5 creatures). This would make crossing thin barriers more expensive, but larger one cheaper.
Tweaks like this don't imply broken to me, I reserve that for rules that need complete redesign.
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@TriOmegaZero: Useful and broken differ a lot. This ability would be useful even if toned down. And don't you see from your own text that suddenly the cleric is able to avoid almost *ANY* danger? And I assure you, I have analyzed the issue far more than an average person would have.
And yes, Ring of Freedom of Movement is powerful. That's why it costs 40 000 gp, yet it still lacks from what Dimensional Hop is capable of.
But VoP Freedom of Movement is free. Just sayin', since I played a VoP monk.
Point conceded on the party teleporting. To nitpick, not knowing what is beyond door number one could cause an uncomfortable pileup in a narrow hall, not to mention mass party hurting from unknown spellcasters/traps on the other side on the now fireball formationed party.
I would agree to the proposed limit of one subject per three/four levels as a balancing factor.
TPKs happen for ulterior reasons? How about DMs who didn't read the module closely enough and were a little too efficient. Damn near slaughtered my Shackled City party with an advanced eriynes due to her rapid shot bow attack bonuses only missing on low singles.
I'm all for strong characters. What works for the characters works for the NPCs. I think that examining it over the course of an adventuring day, the 10ft/lvl is going to be burned up quick. Want to get a full attack with your Divine Power on that guy 30ft away? That's three levels worth of ability burned. Same for bringing the whole party through that mysterious door into fireball formation. Hey look, a hundred foot chasm! Guess we'll rely on a flight spell for that.
You want broken, can I suggest an Unseelie Fey Warlock with Winter's Chill and Baleful Polymorph at will? (That one is kind of a sore spot with me, had someone who spammed the hell out of it every game.)
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It appears that people have stuck with the term 'broken' too much.
In their defense, you did bold the word "broken" and put it on a line all by itself. So you kinda called special attention to the term "broken" yourself (not to mention that it's a term that gets alot of attention really fast).
Just sayin'.
-Skeld
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It appears that people have stuck with the term 'broken' too much.In their defense, you did bold the word "broken" and put it on a line all by itself. So you kinda called special attention to the term "broken" yourself (not to mention that it's a term that gets alot of attention really fast).
Just sayin'.
-Skeld
Oh sure, it makes the problem noticeable. Partly what I was actually after. I got the image people consider broken stuff to be immediately discarded... I merely considered it "too powerful in its current composition." The definition of the term 'broken' seems to be a bit hazy nevertheless.
Despite all this I'm wondering how people can ignore the issue and NOT see the problem this particular power has. I'm not saying it's the most powerful/broken feature in the Pathfinder beta, but it's still excessively good to the common goods. I urge people to be more critical about all the powers and, please, don't say "this works just fine when we ruled it needs a line-of-sight." Betatesting needs to be precise and errors must be edited out or they are left there to lurk. We definitely don't want to see yet another Hulking Hurler incident and suddenly see the whole prestige class being banned due to one combination. By eliminating the overpowering aspect of the travel domain's Dimensional Hop ability, we can ensure it is still useful, resourceful, and balanced.
Please, concentrate on what I say, not on how I say it. This is not a land of politics where every statement should be carefully analyzed and the bad ones pop up in tabloids.
Please, concentrate on what I say, not on how I say it. This is not a land of politics where every statement should be carefully analyzed and the bad ones pop up in tabloids.
Uh, yes. Yes, it is. :)
Welcome to the internets.And I don't think this power is very broken. Anyhow: it's the travel domain; Not too many deities have it.
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If in your play group people aren't brave enough to do daring attempts, it is not my problem. TPKs happen due to ulterior reasons, maybe blood lust, I don't know. Most DMs don't run super-deadly adventures, and in those adventures the Travel domain's Dimensional Hop ability is too powerful.
Have you read the obituaries threads on these boards for the adventure paths? most of the adventures have 50+ deaths, some over 100, and thats just people who know about the obit boards, DM(If they play they don't want to spoil future parts), and remember to post...
the 3.5 travel domain is powerful too.. had someone demonstrate that last month in a pathfinder society game. sorry i can't contribute more - waiting for my beta print copy to reach myFLGS
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And I don't think this power is very broken. Anyhow: it's the travel domain; Not too many deities have it.
Unless your cleric worships an abstract concept, in which case they are free to choose any two domains they please.
While I'm on the subject, I'd like to see that changed as well, or at least restricted somewhat thematically. A DM can always houserule their own domains, but putting the choices to the player just asks for abuse.
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Please, concentrate on what I say, not on how I say it. This is not a land of politics where every statement should be carefully analyzed and the bad ones pop up in tabloids.Uh, yes. Yes, it is. :)
Welcome to the internets.
Just maybe I am not very good at articulating what I mean to say. English is not even my native language, for God's sake!
And I don't think this power is very broken. Anyhow: it's the travel domain; Not too many deities have it.
Yeah... but some deities do grant Travel domain. That is enough. I'll order the "Number Cruncher" team to solve the issue throughoutly. Now most arguments have been just about personal experiences, which have not unfolded the power's true potential.
And thanks, Jal. Restrictions would be a good thing to start with. I came up with a nasty tactic with the power...
Hold a weapon in your hand.. ready action against a charge, then suddenly warp behind the charger (10 ft or something) to make him unable to attack you.
Ready actions and ranged combat makes the cleric extremely powerful, or a station war. Cleric takes a ready action "Shoot and hop" when the foe is attacking. You can now see what I'm after...
Hold a weapon in your hand.. ready action against a charge, then suddenly warp behind the charger (10 ft or something) to make him unable to attack you.
This does not work. The ability requires a swift action, so you can't use it in conjunction with a ready action.
@TriOmegaZero, VoP freedom of movement is hardly free as it effectively costs every single gold piece and magical item the character might have.
One thing I came across while reading this thread, was the notion that because freedom of movement can defeat grapple instantly, it's not broken(or too powerful, or whatever word you wish to use) for this ability to defeat grapple. This I can't understand. a first level character can defeat grapple once per day with travel domain. It takes a seventh level character to defeat grapple with a freedom of movement spell. It takes an even higher level character to actually afford a ring of freedom of movement. Please consider the fact that travel domain's first level ability can ignore grapple six levels earlier than normal, and it does not even cost a spell slot.
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The problem with the Travel domain power is that as compared to the other 1st-level domain powers it scales much more quickly. Whereas the other powers seem to scale at a rate of one per each two caster levels, the Travel domain power keeps on getting better at each level.
Even at first level hopping 10 ft. once a day can spell life or death in a scenario. In a given situation it may allow a Cleric with the Travel domain to completely ignore attacks of opportunity to get to the squishy enemies at the back. It is highly situational, granted, but with traditional encounter desing it may allow for an unfair advantage that makes certain encounters complete pushovers.
Furthermore, even at first level it allows you to escape grapples for free twice a day. Just teleport 5 ft. away from the grappler and hey, profit! It's not even on scale with the traditional 3.5 Travel domain power, since as this power effectively gives you short increments of freedom of movement it's a swift action to use it.
From a point of comparison it's not to scale with the other 1st-level domain powers simply because it scales a lot faster and only takes a swift action to perform. The other domain powers may seem nice on the surface, but really: 1d8 points of damage plus half your caster level against an undead creature once a day as a touch attack isn't exactly comparable to the sheer utility that the Travel domain power has. What's the difference? The Sun domain power is a standard action with limited usage (only works against undead creatures) while the Travel domain power is a swift action with a number of different usages in a variety of situations. The Strength domain power is a complete joke compared to this, as it requires a standard action to activate and the benefit must be used within three rounds of activation.
Balance? Tipped in favor of Travel.
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@TriOmegaZero, VoP freedom of movement is hardly free as it effectively costs every single gold piece and magical item the character might have.
If you don't care about the gold and magic items then yes, it is free. I played my VoP monk perfectly contently with just racial and class features.
As for the defeating of grapple, the Travel domain power is still limited to once per level. You're going to run out of it very quickly if you are up against something with improved grab. I feel that is the balancing factor.
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As for the defeating of grapple, the Travel domain power is still limited to once per level. You're going to run out of it very quickly if you are up against something with improved grab. I feel that is the balancing factor.
Actually, you only need to teleport five feet to escape a grapple and at high levels you will have a lot of 5 foot increments to teleport.
Actually, when you look at it from this perspective, it becomes apparent that the Travel domain power actually grows at four times the same rate as the other powers, as you'll be getting two extra five foot increments with each caster levels. So, per each level beyond one you get two more uses of giving the DM the finger as your character escapes the evil grapple-tentacle monster.
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Suggestions for the fix:
- Make it a move action rather than a swift action. That resolves an awful lot of the issues with it.
- Change the distance to 5ft/level or make it a once a day power anywhere within range.
- Line of sight is needed.
Any thoughts on how those ideas would factor into its power? We don't want to go too far the other way, after all.
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Suggestions for the fix:
- Make it a move action rather than a swift action. That resolves an awful lot of the issues with it.
- Change the distance to 5ft/level or make it a once a day power anywhere within range.
- Line of sight is needed.
Any thoughts on how those ideas would factor into its power? We don't want to go too far the other way, after all.
Completely agree. The 1/day thing is probably the best fix.
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Suggestions for the fix:
- Make it a move action rather than a swift action. That resolves an awful lot of the issues with it.
- Change the distance to 5ft/level or make it a once a day power anywhere within range.
- Line of sight is needed.
Any thoughts on how those ideas would factor into its power? We don't want to go too far the other way, after all.
Making it a move action sounds like a good fix in my opinion. It still allows you to avoid provoking attacks of opportunity, but it fixes the problem of Divine Powered Clerics teleporting into groups of enemies to kick everything's ass with full-attacks. Line of sight should, in my opinion, definitely be a factor.
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Just as an aside:
Have the posters on this thread actually seen this ability used In Game?
Or is this just based on the text of the rule?
In my experience (Playing a rogue in a party with a Travel/Luck Cleric of Desna at the moment...about 4 months in now) this ability has been used about 3-4 times.
At least twice was to remove the cleric from a grapple she had NO other way of escaping (I.E. preventing a player from having no further interaction at the table and removing the healer from the party for the entire fight...TPK bait for sure)
Another time was to deliver the cleric and bard to the fight when the had gotten seperated due to terrain-managing enemies.
Another was to simply allow her to move closer so as to heal more effectively, then move back out of combat with 45-50 damage dealing monsters (more than capable of smushing her in 1 round)
In summation: This ability, as a Swift action, has allowed the cleric to remain viable despite very concentrated efforts to negate her in combat, keep the party together and alive, and save her own skin.
I do not see a significant rules problem with this.
For another example of strong teleportation safety magic, examine the PHB2 Conjurer's alternate class feature of "Abrupt Jaunt." By giving up a familiar, you can teleport 10' as an Immediate action, a limited # of times per day. Also powerful, also very useful, NOT game breaking when used in my recent 1-21 Savage Tide Adventure Path game.
-t
Suggestions for the fix:
- Make it a move action rather than a swift action. That resolves an awful lot of the issues with it.
- Change the distance to 5ft/level or make it a once a day power anywhere within range.
- Line of sight is needed.
Any thoughts on how those ideas would factor into its power? We don't want to go too far the other way, after all.
I agree with the first and third points of this.
I think making it a move action is good.
Equally, it'd make sense for the "Touch of X" Domain Powers to ALSO be move actions (instead of spell-equivalent standard actions) They only last 3 rounds and it just feels more appropriate, esp. for Luck Domain.)
I'd also suggest requiring that you've SEEN the location before (including current Line-of-Sight(even keyholes), but also Scrying/Remote Viewing/etc - So you CAN teleport to places you haven't been, you just need access to those spells first)
It doesn't sound like either of these would really interfere with how people here who LIKE it actually use it. I'd also say the move action is MOST necessary, of the two changes (although some might think non-LOS teleport is pretty powerful, the swift action is too abusable, a move action still lets you do plenty else)
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And because I love cross-posting: guess what! The Travel domain power does screw up encounter balance!
Anyhow: it's the travel domain; Not too many deities have it.
As limiting as this might be in the campaign background, it won't limit a thing on the gaming table. It just means that a whole heck of a lot of PC clerics will be worshippers of gods who have the travel domain.
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As limiting as this might be in the campaign background, it won't limit a thing on the gaming table. It just means that a whole heck of a lot of PC clerics will be worshippers of gods who have the travel domain.
Anyhow: it's the travel domain; Not too many deities have it.
Exactly. When one character option becomes so good as to overshadow other options playing a character without the said option becomes unoptimal.
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When one finds something he likes to play, and plays well, it doesn't mean thats a broken thing. It means he/she's having fun, as should you be
I just like role playing, sigh
No one was saying that you weren't. The point here is that when a power is of vastly greater utility than another of comparable level then the other power pales in comparison. Personally, if I were playing in a group where my Cleric was constantly overshadowed by the other Cleric with the Travel domain I would probably feel a bit cheated, which would also have a negative impact on my fun.
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Just as an aside:
Have the posters on this thread actually seen this ability used In Game?
Or is this just based on the text of the rule?
In my experience (Playing a rogue in a party with a Travel/Luck Cleric of Desna at the moment...about 4 months in now) this ability has been used about 3-4 times.
At least twice was to remove the cleric from a grapple she had NO other way of escaping (I.E. preventing a player from having no further interaction at the table and removing the healer from the party for the entire fight...TPK bait for sure)
Another time was to deliver the cleric and bard to the fight when the had gotten seperated due to terrain-managing enemies.
Another was to simply allow her to move closer so as to heal more effectively, then move back out of combat with 45-50 damage dealing monsters (more than capable of smushing her in 1 round)
In summation: This ability, as a Swift action, has allowed the cleric to remain viable despite very concentrated efforts to negate her in combat, keep the party together and alive, and save her own skin.
I do not see a significant rules problem with this.
For another example of strong teleportation safety magic, examine the PHB2 Conjurer's alternate class feature of "Abrupt Jaunt." By giving up a familiar, you can teleport 10' as an Immediate action, a limited # of times per day. Also powerful, also very useful, NOT game breaking when used in my recent 1-21 Savage Tide Adventure Path game.
-t
I pretty much agree with psionichamster, and he has provided some good actual in-game examples.
It's kind of difficult when the same issue has been raised across three threads, but for those approaching the discussion for the first time, I'll repeat my experience here:
I have only three 1st level players in my Crimson Throne campaign - a Fighter, a Ranger and a Cleric of Abadar - no rogue, no arcane.
The Cleric has used Dimension Hop a few times. The first use caught me by surprise, he peered through a window to jump himself and the fighter into a locked warehouse. They could have smashed the door or broken the window to get in, alerting those inside, but I thought this was a good use of an ability that was exhausted for the day after this one use.
The other uses were to hop to a better position during a battle, which I think is good use of the ability.
I think a line-of-sight restriction would help. I don't think it should be a move action. As a Living Greyhawk player, I've used an anklet of translocation to dismount from my horse as a swift action (instead of the normal move action), leaving me with my regular move and standard actions so I could close to combat and get an attack in.
With a line-of-sight restriction, I don't think it's game-breaking, similar abilities have been introduced scattered through a range of sourcebooks (Beneficial/Baleful Transposition (1st and 2nd level spells), Anklet of Translocation, some Psion powers, and abilities other have mentioned), but I am keeping an eye on it.
Another use I have thought of, but haven't seen in play yet, is moving in, attacking, and hopping out - emulating Spring Attack to avoid return attacks or AOOs. It has limited uses per day, particularly at low levels, so I'm not sure how much this constitutes rorting the system.
My only reservation is that it might overshadow other Domain choices - it's a lot of fun, and players love it. It just needs to be balanced with the other domain powers and remove opportunities for abuse, without removing the fun. So maybe that requires making the other domain powers fun to use too?
Exactly. When one character option becomes so good as to overshadow other options playing a character without the said option becomes unoptimal.
I'd prefer to call the different build strategies as dominant and dominated. I don't really care fore the optimal/unoptimal spin since, ultimately, what you have fun with is optimal enough.
But not game should have too many dominant strategies. If there are insufficient trade-offs to deter anyone from pursuing the strategy, then the design is poor. Extended or persistent empowered buffs needed to be nerfed for the good of the game. I think the same may be true of too easy teleports. I don't want to play a game where a character can teleport every few minutes. If I did, I'd be playing an eladrin in 4e.
The travel domain power from 3e was pretty enticing as it was and I think it was a lot weaker overall. I'd go to a persistent movement bonus and free action. But then, I'm more of a Fharlanghn type of travel god supporter - a travel god who actually walks around. Teleporting just doesn't seem to have the right flavor as far as I'm concerned.
I agree with the flavor thing.
This ability would seem to match a "Planar" Domain, rather than "Travel" (since extraplanar beings often gate/teleport around). A "Traveller" could have many powers, Speak Tongues for the foreign lands they travel thru, an ability to ignore hampered terrain, ones that are based on them engaging IN the world, not SUPERMAGICTELEPORTING around it.
Likewise, the "Flight" power of Travel seems a better fit for Air.
(at the very least, why does Air NOT have it, but some "walk on air" ability instead...?)
I could see some "Freedom of Movement" ability for Travel, as well (or Liberation).
I have a Cleric I'm playing in a Beta rules-test game, and I actually had to forgo picking Travel because it was just TOO good, and I didn't like the flavor of constantly being able to Fly once I hit mid-levels. I went with Luck and Protection instead.
Travel domain's dimensional hop is...
...broken!
No its not. Unlike what you might believe, walls and doors aren't actually challenges to the players. They're an inconvenience. A PC that wants to get through a door will do it no matter what, in any way possible. This is just another tool to use.
I won't expect you to to change your opinion, but face it: Its an extremely basic power.
I understand what the OP is saying. The ability may not be broken but the potential for abuse is there (there's potential for a lot of things to be abused but this one doesn't take much thought). In most games this may not come up but you have to admit its there.
Speaking as someone who's playing a Githyanki invasion game where almost everyone in the party can Dimension Door (DD) (a bunch of 16-17th level Githyanki), having that much mobility does change things. The style of play does tend to adapt, especially if the party gains enough notoriety your enemies start to plan for the ability.
Would people prefer line of sight or line of effect? Line of sight can go through a Wall of Force, line of effect can’t.
I want to suggest something to see what people think.
On the other thread (that eventually got shut down) I incorrectly posted (and thought) that the power only let the cleric move 5’ at a time. I was quickly (and repeatedly) corrected but what do you think of that as a limitation. When I agreed that the power let the cleric make bigger jumps I found it to be less interesting. Free 5’ jumps require a lot more tactical thought to be useful, but it can still be really useful. Also, the cleric could only jump across the thinnest of walls (1-2 feet). 5’ feet at a time just sounds more like a first level power to me.
As for grappling, a cleric of the god of travel should be hard to grapple. Though it doesn’t stop a creature from starting the grapple, and doing any special effects trigger on the grapple (crush, rend, whatever). It just means the cleric can get out the next round, though with only a 5’ jump they’d still be nice and close.
Okay, just by *LOOKING* at this feat I can't honestly believe no one has made this discovery. Travel domain's dimensional hop is...
...broken!
10 ft./lvl/day worth of teleporting as a swift action, divided as you choose into 5 ft-increments. What does this mean?
After gaining more levels the cleric is able to bypass many obstacles that would normally require a rogue or something. This ability could have serious impacts on adventures which present you an impenetrable door and such.
Also this cleric on higher levels could hop around with the swift action and make a full-attack. Almost every time if his/her daily usage isn't depleted. Although the cleric's BAB isn't all that great, this is still a major issue. It also gives the cleric is serious advantage with spellcasting.
The last thing is grappling; really, no one will ever grapple this cleric and succeed. No one. Nada. Zippo. Absolutely no-friggin'-one.
You mean how a wizard could just disintegrate the door or phase through it or go gaseous and squirm under it, or how the fighter could beat it down with an adamantine sword?
SH*T, you mean that the cleric can teleport a few feet at level 1?
Why not give fast movement broken up over rounds rather than teleport?
What does teleporting have to do with travel?
I thought a cleric with the travel domain would be the type to say "getting there is the worthier part of the journey."
A few feet are enough to get through a locked door or out of grapple.
But a grapple or a locked door shouldn't impede a cleric of the god of travel (it's whole deal is to go places and not be held back), at least if it has any footage left.
The way grapple works you're doing a creature a favour getting out of its grapple. It no longer has the grappled condition and is no longer vulnerable to everyone else in the party.
The creature can attack, grapple, and crush the cleric next round.