And I'm not saying 4th ed is any better in this respect because it's not.
So I'm putting my 2 cents in before the final copy comes out. It's about the cover art. I have nothing against the beautiful picture of the pathfinder team and the dragon... But one thing that I really liked about 3rd ed dnd was that the 3 core rulebooks looked like... well ... books. Like you were opening some ancient tome to another world every time you got out your P.H., and in some respects, you were.
I would like to see a book-like cover for the final P-finder... I don't expect it will happen, but if it did, well... I would like that a lot.
-awp
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Well the Alpha and the Beta are both using recycled art from the Adventure Paths. It'll definitely have a new cover when the final version comes out next year.
That said, I didn't like the Tome look. Most of them were ugly IMHO.
Covers I liked from 3e...
Book of Vile Darkness
Fiendish Codex 1&2
Lords of Madess
Only BoVD is a tome style cover.
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i liked how the 3.0 covers looked... but the ones for 3.5 where to exagerated for my likings (maybe that is anotherreason i never got them)
Actually I agree. Maybe something that looks like a dusty, worn, tattered book that a Pathfinder would carry to chronicle his stories.
Although I have heard that good fantasy art on a cover increases sales in the store.|
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i liked how the 3.0 covers looked... but the ones for 3.5 where to exagerated for my likings (maybe that is another reason i never got them)Actually I agree. Maybe something that looks like a dusty, worn, tattered book that a Pathfinder would carry to chronicle his stories.
Although I have heard that good fantasy art on a cover increases sales in the store.
true...
i have bought (and will buy books) because i like the art in the cover (and i will get those who have Merisiel in the cover)but aye... a book that remind us a difficult journey, dangerous odds and spilled coffee... forget the spilled coffee :D
I like the tome look (I especially liked the nice shiny 3.5 versions), but I haven't liked that look with most books that have tried to imitate it. The reason is that they simply haven't been done well enough to do it justice.
So if it's going to be art, I kind of prefer something with a dragon on it. The cover art for the Gazetteer would be a good place to start looking for inspiration, in my opinion.
That said, I didn't like the Tome look. Most of them were ugly IMHO.
Covers I liked from 3e...
Book of Vile Darkness
Fiendish Codex 1&2
Lords of MadessOnly BoVD is a tome style cover.
I second this totally
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What I don't like about the tome-look is these are -to me- very obviously computer-generated. I don't like covers I could have done with a bunch of textures and Photoshop, basically.
I like art, whether that'd be drawing, patterns, maps... you know. Stuff that's drawn, designed by artists using their own hands. Look at the cover of Castle Zagyg: Yggsburg, for instance. The grey background is ugly, for sure, but the painting itself... that's awesome.
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I'm a fan of the tome look, when done well. The 3.0/3.5 stuff is too gaudy. Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide, for example, I like a lot. I left it on top of my campaign setting the other night, and caught it later while walking by... looked like real book for a second. Made me happy.
Edit: But I gotta say I like the beta cover just fine. I'm admittedly a Paizo fanboy at this point.
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I like the tome look, it is distinctive, but PRPG in a way needs to carry on that legacy while also looking different enough to be recognisable as unique and new. I think the Beta did a good job of that. Laying on my ping-pong table, it is easily one of the more handsome books out for play.
That said, I would also like a return to the "older" D&D - full cover artwork of very high quality, wrapping around the binding and onto the back. Sort of like the Grand History of the Realms, Draconomicon, or Libris Mortis (one of my favorites).
I thought one of the neatest things WotC did in 3.5 was distinguish the categories by changing the look of the tome - check out some of the Complete, Environment, and Monster series (Drow of the Underdark, etc). They all match and it looks pretty neat on the shelf.
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I thought one of the neatest things WotC did in 3.5 was distinguish the categories by changing the look of the tome - check out some of the Complete, Environment, and Monster series (Drow of the Underdark, etc). They all match and it looks pretty neat on the shelf.
not a 3.5 thing
TSR did the same with their character and race guides (red), types of adventures (green), extrastuff like equipment, rules and castles and gods (blue) full cover, with only golden letters in the front and simpel drawing, and TSR information in the back... simple, clean and efficient...
any way... more art... and no, not dragons, to many dragons around :S
i would say... mmm... either a tome damaged by the dangers of the road
or
if art needs to be... i would say a traveler or an adventurer, movingalong some inhospitable terrain... maybe inthe mountians looking below in a vale with a magnificent city in the look... or maybe even attacked
alsoa MErisiel cover... i would buy that TWICE :)
of course a Merisiel cover in the mountains, looking below to a ebautiful city, or a city being attacked by a dragon (my compromsie to the dragon fandom) would be neat
What I don't like about the tome-look is these are -to me- very obviously computer-generated. I don't like covers I could have done with a bunch of textures and Photoshop, basically.
I'm not sure which tome-cover books you're talking about, but I know the tome-like covers for the 3.0 PH, DMG, and MM were actual flat sculptured physical pieces created by an artist and photographed for use as the covers--they were NOT created in Photoshop. I think the same goes for the 3.5 PH, DMG, and MM, but I am not positive.
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Let me rephrase it then, Sean: I do not like the way they feel like they've been put together with Photoshop.
I think I am getting what you feel - you would rather have an actual leather-bound tome rather than one with a picture of a mock leather-bound tome on it. But originally you did say you thought they were computer generated.
I disagree, I think the 3rd Edition books were the best ever in most cases, but I do agree that an actual tome (like the 30th Anniversary one I just ordered from Paizo) is nicer.
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I think I am getting what you feel - you would rather have an actual leather-bound tome rather than one with a picture of a mock leather-bound tome on it. But originally you did say you thought they were computer generated.
Yes, you get what I mean, I think. And yes, that's what I originally thought. I can't be the only one who thought so, seriously. That alone shows that the idea I'm trying to convey isn't an hallucination.
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even then its an interesting data that it was somehow beign physically created
alsoi msut repeat i liked the look of the 1stbooks, they looked real... the 3.5 well... they were to much adorned to feel real... in this i agree its so much input in the cover taht you can't believe there could be a book like that, while in 3.0 you can believe it(would have been nice for limited editions :P)
and the "this looks photoshoped" even when its not... its one of the evil of our times...
edit: arrived late to the post
yes, i would love a BOOK that feels LIKE a BOOK!
snif... damn it will cost me... but can we get an edition like that!
Personally I don't like the concept of covers at all. Those are the parts the keep all the awesome trapped inside. I say do away with them once and for all! Who's with me!
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Personally I don't like the concept of covers at all. Those are the parts the keep all the awesome trapped inside. I say do away with them once and for all! Who's with me!
We can walk around with stacks of paper inside manilla envelopes!
While we're at it, page numbers are stupid! That 1''x1'' space at the bottom of the page could be used for more PRPG awesomeness!
For the record, I would definitely buy a leather-bound Pathfinder rulebook. I never bought the limited D&D core books, but PF, a 600-page leather-bound tome of awesomeness? If it's priced like the Ptolus book was, I would preorder instantly.
You can have it done! Look at one I made here
It's a pesonal treasure!
I'm not sure which tome-cover books you're talking about, but I know the tome-like covers for the 3.0 PH, DMG, and MM were actual flat sculptured physical pieces created by an artist and photographed for use as the covers--they were NOT created in Photoshop.
If you look closely in the corner jewels of some of the covers, you can see a person I presume is the artist holding up his camera.
I'm not sure which tome-cover books you're talking about, but I know the tome-like covers for the 3.0 PH, DMG, and MM were actual flat sculptured physical pieces created by an artist and photographed for use as the covers--they were NOT created in Photoshop. I think the same goes for the 3.5 PH, DMG, and MM, but I am not positive.
It is. If you hold the 3.5 PHB upside down and look at the gems, you can see the flash and the silhouette of the photographer.
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It is. If you hold the 3.5 PHB upside down and look at the gems, you can see the flash and the silhouette of the photographer.
I'm not sure which tome-cover books you're talking about, but I know the tome-like covers for the 3.0 PH, DMG, and MM were actual flat sculptured physical pieces created by an artist and photographed for use as the covers--they were NOT created in Photoshop. I think the same goes for the 3.5 PH, DMG, and MM, but I am not positive.
I heard that the silhouette is actually the image of the ghost of a 4th Edition playtester who overdosed on cheetos and Mountain Dew during a playtest session. He hated it so much he went back in time to haunt the pressings of 3.5 as a warning.
As much as I too liked the 'tome' look of the 3.5 core books I really enjoy the new direction of the artwork I've seen with all of the Pathfinder products.
ok, so here's my idea:
i'm thinking a party of adventurers. they just finsihed mopping up some lizardman looking dudes, and two guys are atop a statue, trying to pry these HUGE gem eyes out...
i dunno, it just came to me in a dream or something...
I think a homage to the original AD&D PHB cover would be cool. It would also send a message to the potential buyers.
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Draconomicon is my favorite cover from 3e, and it's not only an art cover, it's a wraparound art cover!
I'd love to see some artwork by Denis Beauvais. I loved his Dragon magazine covers of the dragons and the chessmen (as well as his work on Warlock 5, particularly his depictions of Doomidor, Savashtar and Tanith).
If one were going to go with a 'tome' style cover, it would be better if it were tooled leather and had texture to it, not just a flat glossy picture of a 'tome,' but an actual *tome.* Perhaps such a thing could be made by a leatherworker, even touched up with some metal or crystals, and made into a slipcover and sold seperately...
Just please lay off of WAR for once... pretty please? I know he's, like, the official artist of all Paizo products, but I'm really sick of his stuff. REALLY sick of it. Been a Paizo fan for too long, I guess.
ok, so here's my idea:
i'm thinking a party of adventurers. they just finsihed mopping up some lizardman looking dudes, and two guys are atop a statue, trying to pry these HUGE gem eyes out...
i dunno, it just came to me in a dream or something...
You mean like this?
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ok, so here's my idea:
i'm thinking a party of adventurers. they just finsihed mopping up some lizardman looking dudes, and two guys are atop a statue, trying to pry these HUGE gem eyes out...
i dunno, it just came to me in a dream or something...
You mean like this?
Is it wrong I had the urge to reach into my computer screen and pluck the eye out?
How about cover art by Larry Elmore (and some interior art by Jeff Easley to go along with it).
How about cover art by Larry Elmore (and some interior art by Jeff Easley to go along with it).
I would second this idea. As for Wayne Reynolds...ugh....His art work does not inspire me at all. I'm sure I'll get kicked in the junk for saying this here but it does not appeal to me. It wouldn't keep me from buying PRPG though.
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Personally I don't like the concept of covers at all. Those are the parts the keep all the awesome trapped inside. I say do away with them once and for all! Who's with me!We can walk around with stacks of paper inside manilla envelopes!
While we're at it, page numbers are stupid! That 1''x1'' space at the bottom of the page could be used for more PRPG awesomeness!
Just go one step further: Pathfinder RPG RuleDecks*tm*!
Buy each chapter individually, or buy the RuleDeckMegaSet*tm* and get special hologram foil cards illustrating the new Combat Maneuver mechanics!
ps, I like the art covers better, too. And WAR covers are a-okay by me.
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Personally I don't like the concept of covers at all. Those are the parts the keep all the awesome trapped inside. I say do away with them once and for all! Who's with me!
I personally think it would be awesome if to save on page count the table of contents was just printed on the front and the OGL license was on the back. Sort of utilitarian and stuff.
We could probably even fit a small chart or two that people have been asking for down the spine.
-Tarlane
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I personally think it would be awesome if to save on page count the table of contents was just printed on the front and the OGL license was on the back. Sort of utilitarian and stuff.
We could probably even fit a small chart or two that people have been asking for down the spine.
Or include such things inside the front and back covers, like recipe books do sometimes with measurement conversions, etc. They could even bind in some cardstock leaves inside the front and back covers to double your Quick Reference Chart fun!
How about cover art by Larry Elmore (and some interior art by Jeff Easley to go along with it).Good lord have mercy I LOVE that idea! Yes I bet you were being sarcastic but I really do love that idea.
nope, no sarcasm intended, they are my two favorite fantasy artists. (note I like Waynes art too, but not quite as much, Elmore and Easley pretty much defined what the look of D&D was all about for me, IMO nothing would say "this product is the heir appearent to the RPG that we have always known and loved" then an Elmore cover).
Well for my two coppers, I loved all tome cover look of 3rd. It gave a mythic feel for the game, and I include 3PP covers to this. However I think it might be a mistake for Pathfinder to go that way. I know I know its keeping 3e alive, but in the long run I think that Paizo needs to make its own path and distinct look to its game line. Something that both Mongoose with Conan and GR with True20 have done. I don't like True 20 covers as such, but you know right off what system your getting. As for Conan they have made some great art covers that have a very good look (not sure about the blue 2nd but you know which is which). Pathfinder has to do the same. The only way I think they could continue the tome look is by making it look like a Pathfinder Journal, something more like 3e FR. But in the long rune they need there own look, something that says this is Pathfinder not DnD.