4 skill ranks per level please!


General Discussion (Prerelease)

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So, Dennis, why would the wizard have less skills than the cleric, paladin or sorcerer? Is this simply because a wizard has a higher Int score? For shame.


Play a Human with a minimum 14 Int.

With fewer listed skills in Pathfinder, there's no reason other than the "I Wanna Haz Everythingz" attitude to clamor for more skill points per level. This isn't about optimizing, it's about sacrificing a bit here or there. If having more skill points to spread around is conceptually important to you, then drop a few skill points from your maxed-out skills elsewhere, or raise your Intelligence a couple of points and live with a slightly lower Prime Attribute. Maybe consider playing a human instead of whatever other demi-race you might normally play; there's a reason they are considered in fluff to be the most ascendant and expanding race in most fantasy settings.

Most of the players I hear this "not enough skill points" complaint from are those who don't want to give up on their "gotta be the best" plan for character builds. That's my two cents.

Liberty's Edge

Asturysk wrote:

Play a Human with a minimum 14 Int.

With fewer listed skills in Pathfinder, there's no reason other than the "I Wanna Haz Everythingz" attitude to clamor for more skill points per level. This isn't about optimizing, it's about sacrificing a bit here or there. If having more skill points to spread around is conceptually important to you, then drop a few skill points from your maxed-out skills elsewhere, or raise your Intelligence a couple of points and live with a slightly lower Prime Attribute. Maybe consider playing a human instead of whatever other demi-race you might normally play; there's a reason they are considered in fluff to be the most ascendant and expanding race in most fantasy settings.

Most of the players I hear this "not enough skill points" complaint from are those who don't want to give up on their "gotta be the best" plan for character builds. That's my two cents.

You're ascribing motives which are untrue. I find that to be offensive. If you have tried 4+Int skill points in a campaign you will find that they are not 'Everythingz'. As a system they don't work well with 'power gamers'. For 'roleplayers' they offer something. What's wrong with wanting to play a character that doesn't suck?

Seriously? Look at the fighter. People think that he's supposed to be great in combat and suck at everything else, and he isn't even that good in combat. Not really better than a ranger (and now he doesn't even have more hit points).

If everyone has the minimum 4 skills per level, you shouldn't have a player 'being the best'.

You're free to believe what you choose to believe, but I do not want 4 skill points to be 'all that'. I want it so I can build a well-rounded character that has crunch that supports the fluff, and interesting options outside of combat. That should not require 'gimping' the character by ignoring 'primary ability'. The average fighter should not have an Int of 14. The average fighter should probably be good at least 4 things. The average human fighter should be better than the 'average fighter' and probably have at least 5 skills. Then, if skills are really that important, than a high intelligence would make sense. But seriously, why does the Ranger have more skill points than the Fighter?

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

I've had this debate before (several times, actually - in the Alpha1, Alpha2, and Alpha3 forums) so I'm not going to get into it again, but for what it's worth, count me in with the "4-points-per-level, minimum" crowd.

Shadow Lodge

Asturysk wrote:

Play a Human with a minimum 14 Int.

...

Most of the players I hear this "not enough skill points" complaint from are those who don't want to give up on their "gotta be the best" plan for character builds. That's my two cents.

Huzza! I agree entirely! Leave skill point allotments alone. They're fine as written in Beta.


MisterSlanky wrote:
Chinch Bug wrote:

I don't think that would be such a good idea. Having your skills locked to your level is, frankly, a bit boring. Sure, it gives you a guaranteed skill advancement for all your skills, but you end up with a dull, homogonized PC. Not having a particular skill level at a particular point in play creates opportunities for creativity. And that's what this game is all about.

Also, automatic skill progression makes it hard to suspend ones disbelief. For example, a 5th-level barbarian with 20 skill points in Knowledge (nobility)? or Disguise? Uh, no.

Chinchbug's General Rule of Roleplaying Design:
More player control = Fun
Less player control = Boring

-Chinchbug

Um, I could be wrong, but I think he's asking that every class be given a minimum of 4+Int skill points per level (as opposed to 2+Int for Clerics and Fighters). I can pretty much assure you that most Pathfinder players are not interested in the 4E style of skill point increases.

To add to the discussion though. I'm mixed on this whole topic. Part of me believes that fighters/clerics are good where they are, letting other classes take the brunt of the skill points. Another part of me though hates it when I make a dwarf cleric and get stuck with barely enough points for concentration and religion with nothing leftover for the likes of heal and spellcraft.

You know technically in some cases fighters do get 4+INT per level in skills. Take a Human who's favored class is fighter that's 4+Int per level. I think that works good enough for me.

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