Is there any reason why this can't just be replaced with Die Hard? He's still underpowered, and making racial ability worth a feat would go a goodly ways towards fixing that.
mmmm maybe
but then he may have 9 rounds still for combat if no one hits him... he would be harder to heal and would deal lots more of damage
Yes, but if he does get hit, he's probably dead. And if it's balanced for a feat (albeit a feat with Endurance as a prereq), I'm betting it would be balanced for a race that doesn't really get much else.
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but then he may have 9 rounds still for combat if no one hits him... he would be harder to heal and would deal lots more of damage
More than that now, as the Beta changed death to -10 or -(con score), whichever is better.
In my experience, Die Hard causes more character deaths than it prevents. You keep stretching it one more round, then you get hit for 20 points of damage, and you're done. One action, be it attacking, withdrawing, drinking a potion, or whatever, is plenty, and will in fact make death less likely in the long run.
Half-Orcs are fine the way Pathfinder did them I think. The stat bumps are on par with everyone else, the bonus weapons are solid, and the Ferocity works great. Die Hard would be a bit over the top. Sure, Gnomes have their fancy free spells and all, but that won't do much good when you out run them and hack their heads off.
He's still underpowered
I agree. I can see no reason (other than roleplay, of course) to choose this race.
What about changing the way Orc Ferocity works? I would make it:"...when a half-orc is brought below 0 hit points, but not killed he gains 5 (more?, less?) temporary hit points until the end of the encounter..."
I couldn't disagree more. Half-Orcs are a great fighter race. +2 strength is wonderful for a fighter, +2 wisdom helps to shore up that poor will save, and they can use exotic orc weapons without a feat.
+2 Int is better for a wizard than +2 St is for the fighter. The fighter gets +1 attack and +1 damage. The wizard gets another spell per day (of his highest level, at some point during his career), +1 to save DC, and +1 skill rank per level (that's a whole other knowledge skill for free). The fighter gets a little bit better at his job, but the wizard also gets to do his job for longer. At the very very least, +2 int for the wizard = +2 str for the fighter, in which case the Elf should get the shaft. Or, let's look at the Gnome: absolutelly perfect bonuses for a sorcerer with no real downside (oh sure, he sucks hard at grappling, but he sucked hard at grappling before and would have needed another way out of them anyway), and he gets good special abilities to boot.
And don't forget that the Human and the Half-Elf could both get +2 Str if they so chose. Plus their other bonuses, all of which blow the Half-Orc's out of the water.
Also, let's not forget that the Half-orc can't get Fighter as a favored race, so he's down either a maxed skill or 1 HP/HD. The Human could have picked up +2 Str, Iron Will as his bonus feat, and Fighter as his favored class, giving him a total of two extra maxed skills to boot (which is actually worth something now that Fighters have a decent class list, and even non-class-skills aren't a waste of skill ranks).
I'd like to see something along the lines of one lass hurra instead of any die hard-like-life-extension.
Orc Ferocity: Once per day when dropped to zero or fewer HP a Half-orc (and Orcs!) may make a melee attack as an immediate action at a -4 penalty (like being non-proficient in your dying state) against the opponent that dropped him. This action caries the normal 1HP damage for acting while dissabled. Once the attack is complete the Half-orc (and Orcs!) react to being disabled or dying as normal (so those poor people with die hard can still stick around and be smashed next time through initiative).
My only comment on this ability is that it is imperative that when full-blooded orcs are updated that they get the same (or a stronger) ability. Half-orcs should not have more Orc ferocity than full-blooded orcs.
Any interest in Orc Ferocity losing the once per day limit?
I'd like to see it changed to "Whenever a half orc is brought below zero hit points, but not killed..."
Even this would be an improvement. If the Orc falls below 0 HP more than once in a day, he deserves to get to keep using his racial ability.
Is there any reason why this can't just be replaced with Die Hard? He's still underpowered, and making racial ability worth a feat would go a goodly ways towards fixing that.
Totally agreed.
Any interest in Orc Ferocity losing the once per day limit?
I'd like to see it changed to "Whenever a half orc is brought below zero hit points, but not killed..."
I'd vote for this - its a nice freebie but not overpowered at all
the one time it got used in my alpha playtest the 1/2 orc cleric just staggered away from the monster and ended up in a heap in the corner. The theory was so that it would be easier to heal him or area affect the monster....
(remember they're in disabled status so its either move action OR standard action - can't even find and drink a potion!)
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My only comment on this ability is that it is imperative that when full-blooded orcs are updated that they get the same (or a stronger) ability. Half-orcs should not have more Orc ferocity than full-blooded orcs.I agree with that assessment, but I would almost favor the opposite solution. Just drop orc ferocity. It seems a bit tacked on, and half-orcs would be better served with a bit of extra human-like versatility.
Also, note that orc ferocity certainly won't be terribly backwards compatible if all orcs suddenly get it. All of those 1st-level orc encounters suddenly got a lot more dangerous!
Well said Epic Meepo, if folks are somewhat unhappy with the Half-orc some versitility goes a long way toward making a race more attractive.
Orc ferocity, while an interesting idea, would make them(orcs) extremely deadly to low level PCs. I believe that the occasional Orc with Barbarian levels serves the purpose well enough.
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Reading the Orc Ferocity description, I can't think of any time that I (or another player in my group) would have been helped by this. It may be useful for the first 3 levels or so, but after that most attacks that are going to put you below 0 hit points are going to kill you. I've been thinking about this, and maybe half-orcs should keep the abilities they have (minus the Ferocity) but get some additional ability bonuses... making it +4 Str, +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Int, -2 Cha? I also added in the Cha penalty for some more balance. This would make them the best warrior-type characters in the game (perhaps even too powerful), but further dissuade them from (non-Wisdom-based) spellcasting.
-CON for death,not -10....don't forget that...that's -14 to -18 for most half-orc fighters...