BTW, I changed Rim's 3rd level feat from Selective Channeling to Combat Reflexes. I can explain my reasoning if you want.
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BTW, I changed Rim's 3rd level feat from Selective Channeling to Combat Reflexes. I can explain my reasoning if you want.
Good choice! :D
Eric, does the Practiced Spellcaster Feat exist in your campaign? I searched for it and didn't find it in the feat file. You take it, and your Caster Level increases by either 4 or up to the number of HD you have, whichever is lower. This is only effective caster level, you gain no additional spells or slots, but it increases the duration of your spells, or ups the power.
If Sheraviel took it now, for example, she would only have 1 first level spell slot and three cantrips every day, but her effective caster level would be 4 (it can't be five becase she doesn't have 5 HD) for spell duration, damage of the spell, etc.
Ah! And Defensive Swordplay states that the +2 to disarm and sunder attacks stacks with IMproved Disarma nd Improved sunder. Does it ALSO stack with greater disarm and greater sunder?
Ok, I'm doing something crazy with my Cloistered Cleric, so, you all tell me if there's something I'm not considering.
STR: 7
DEX: 12
CON: 13
INT: 8
WIS: 15
CHA: 17
So, the crazy part is using INT as a dump stat. But Cloistered Clerics get 6 + INT mod in skill points (or in my case, minus INT mod) so he won't be awful on skill points (especially with our houseruled slimmed-down skills). Am I missing anything else? Some Intelligence-based spellcraft mechanic that will be in common use?
1. Does the Practiced Spellcaster Feat exist in your campaign?
2. Ah! And Defensive Swordplay states that the +2 to disarm and sunder attacks stacks with Improved Disarm and Improved sunder. Does it ALSO stack with greater disarm and greater sunder?
1. Yes! -- forgetting to include it was an unfortunate oversight.
2. That's one of the Art of the Duel feats? They were originally meant for 3.5, and I spaced out on adding the new stuff. They should definitely stack with the Greater versions as well... but remember that CMB bonuses of +4 in Pathfinder have been nerfed to +2.
Am I missing anything else? Some Intelligence-based spellcraft mechanic that will be in common use?
The spellcraft skill (Int mod) governs Spellcraft, Find and Disarm Magical Traps, and Use Magic Device, so that's kind of a useful one. Other than that, I see no problems looming except that it's hard to be tricky and cunning when you're a bit slow like that. Still 8 isn't too bad -- you're not into William Bonney territory or anything. And overall, the stats seem to nicely mirror the character concept you'd outlined.
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Ok, I'm doing something crazy with my Cloistered Cleric, so, you all tell me if there's something I'm not considering.
STR: 7
DEX: 12
CON: 13
INT: 8
WIS: 15
CHA: 17So, the crazy part is using INT as a dump stat. But Cloistered Clerics get 6 + INT mod in skill points (or in my case, minus INT mod) so he won't be awful on skill points (especially with our houseruled slimmed-down skills). Am I missing anything else? Some Intelligence-based spellcraft mechanic that will be in common use?
Nope, don't see anything wrong with that at all. Dex and Con would be more painful to dump, in my opinion. If you're human, you get another skill point from that anyway, and if your favored class is cloistered cleric, you can get either a hit point or a skill point from that too. I say go for it. Whoo! That's some charisma! Plenty of channelling available! I can only hope it's positive energy. ^_-
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1. Does the Practiced Spellcaster Feat exist in your campaign?
2. Ah! And Defensive Swordplay states that the +2 to disarm and sunder attacks stacks with Improved Disarm and Improved sunder. Does it ALSO stack with greater disarm and greater sunder?1. Yes! -- forgetting to include it was an unfortunate oversight.
2. That's one of the Art of the Duel feats? They were originally meant for 3.5, and I spaced out on adding the new stuff. They should definitely stack with the Greater versions as well... but remember that CMB bonuses of +4 in Pathfinder have been nerfed to +2.
that makes my eventual bonus equal to +6 in disarming. :)
And as these checks are no longer opposed but against a flat DC, I figure the +4 to +2 is essentially a wash. :)
And as these checks are no longer opposed but against a flat DC, I figure the +4 to +2 is essentially a wash. :)
Well, the "flat DC" is CMD, which scales with level pretty nicely. An extra +2 never hurts!
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And as these checks are no longer opposed but against a flat DC, I figure the +4 to +2 is essentially a wash. :)Well, the "flat DC" is CMD, which scales with level pretty nicely. An extra +2 never hurts!
"Flat" as opposed to opposed rolls. :P
Oh! and you're a big meanie for making Sheraviel wait to take Knowledge Devotion. :P :P
Oh! and you're a big meanie for making Sheraviel wait to take Knowledge Devotion. :P :P
Yeah, just call me "Fred."
The spellcraft skill (Int mod) governs Spellcraft, Find and Disarm Magical Traps, and Use Magic Device, so that's kind of a useful one.
Right, but I think that my extra skill points will somewhat counteract those low INT skill modifiers. There's nothing I can think of that relies on a pure INT modifier that will be in common use (other than the amount of skill points he gets every level).
Other than that, I see no problems looming except that it's hard to be tricky and cunning when you're a bit slow like that.
Yeah... he's more pathetic than cunning. :) Besides, I figure it's not out of the question that he would have some training in that to justify putting some skill points in there.
If you're human, you get another skill point from that anyway, and if your favored class is cloistered cleric, you can get either a hit point or a skill point from that too.
Ooh, I forgot about the Human bonus to ability scores! And the SRD says it's +2. Hmm, now to decide if it goes to INT, DEX, or CON.
Plenty of channelling available! I can only hope it's positive energy. ^_-
...
We should talk.
Is Boccob worshipped, or at least somewhat known in Aviona?
Yes! The human wizards dig him. He's said to dwell in the Dark Tower in the Concordant Opposition: the central nexus of all the planes in the multiverse.
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Ooh, I forgot about the Human bonus to ability scores! And the SRD says it's +2. Hmm, now to decide if it goes to INT, DEX, or CON.
wisdom. :)
wisdom. :)
Ooh, I forgot about the Human bonus to ability scores! And the SRD says it's +2. Hmm, now to decide if it goes to INT, DEX, or CON.
A cowardly glass cannon, eh? I can dig it.
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A cowardly glass cannon, eh? I can dig it.wisdom. :)
Ooh, I forgot about the Human bonus to ability scores! And the SRD says it's +2. Hmm, now to decide if it goes to INT, DEX, or CON.
Well, I don't know what your character concept is, but it fits that a cloistered cleric's not big on in your face sorts of combat.
What, a free level isn't good enough for you?!
I have BRAIN DAMAGE! I was drooling, my leg was trying to eat me, I've broken the fourth wall, and now my intelligence is only average!
Brain cells don't go on trees, you know! Well, except for treants. Nevermind.
So now I have to pick a new avatar for Ando.
EDIT: There we go!
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What, a free level isn't good enough for you?!
I have BRAIN DAMAGE! I was drooling, my leg was trying to eat me, I've broken the fourth wall, and now my intelligence is only average!
Brain cells don't go on trees, you know! Well, except for treants. Nevermind.
Hehe! I just want to be uber at everything asap. I have to plan my levels very carefully ahead of time because certain feats require certain prerequisites and I need ot have all my user chosen prereqs ready to kick in when my level dependent prereqs are there...
I may not be able to take disruptive after all. I was looking forward to having this "I know how spellcasting works, so I'm going to screw up your casting so badly you never get a spell off" schtick going.
Ah well.
And what's with the beard?!? I thought you only had a mustache?
AUGH! I want, like, 2 more feats!
I may not be able to take disruptive after all. I was looking forward to having this "I know how spellcasting works, so I'm going to screw up your casting so badly you never get a spell off" schtick going.
Well, there's always more fighter levels... or, if Weapon Focus is a feat you want/need, you could grab some SRD elven paragon levels.
But why not get Drisruptive? Ftr 3/Div 4/ArcWar 3 or Ftr 4/Div 3/ArcWar 2 qualify by 10th and 9th level, respectively.
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Kirth,
Ok, here's what I did:
I took "open mind" as my psionic feat (five free skill points are good, and anything else that fit my character I'll have to wait until my BAB is higher).
My powers are defensive precognition, precognition (seer only power) and bolt.
3rd level feat is improved initiative.
Leveled as a rogue, took two weapon fighting as my rogue talent. I really wanted evasion, and it sets me up for the next two levels, I get to add +1d6 sneak attack, +1 BAB, and +1 to all saves the next two levels and net two more feats to boot, assuming I go ahead and take one more rogue level and one more fighter level.
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AUGH! I want, like, 2 more feats!
I may not be able to take disruptive after all. I was looking forward to having this "I know how spellcasting works, so I'm going to screw up your casting so badly you never get a spell off" schtick going.Well, there's always more fighter levels... or, if Weapon Focus is a feat you want/need, you could grab some SRD elven paragon levels.
But why not get Drisruptive? Ftr 3/Div 4/ArcWar 3 or Ftr 4/Div 3/ArcWar 2 qualify by 10th and 9th level, respectively.
Hehe, because I need other things more. :) I'm just whining about having to choose. :D
And what's with the beard?!? I thought you only had a mustache?
Are you dissing my beard? That's like dissing my ancestors!
If they weren't all a bunch of backstabbing a-holes, I might be offended.
What time, tonight?
I was under the impression that it was around 6ish. From your post earlier.
EDIT: BTW, which PC's are we using tonight? Primary or secondary PC's?
I was under the impression that it was around 6ish. From your post earlier.
Ah. I didn't realize that my suggestions have that much authority.
Also, it would be a good idea for everyone to give me $20.00 tonight.
6sh is fine by me!
Original characters tonight (finish "All-Seeing Eye" and "Automatic Hound.")
Possibly secondary characters Monday, if Derek will be absent (unless he dies tonight anyway...!)
Must...resist...suggestion....
Will save
EDIT: Do we need the pack of DP?
EDIT: Do we need the pack of DP?
If I say "yes," will you stop asking me every day? ;)
Seriously, it probably wouldn't hurt -- I'll find room for it somewhere, if you've already bought it. If not, no need to run to the store, we'll be fine for tonight.
No, I won't stop asking every week. I don't like sponging off others. Not when I have the ability to contribute.
No, I won't stop asking every week. I don't like sponging off others. Not when I have the ability to contribute.
I only have one question: is it shiny?
I only have one question: is it shiny?
Indigo shiny! Mine!
Next week: keep on going with the new guys, and work Derek in somehow, or leave them in the cave and revisit the original group? I'm OK either way!
I think I'd like to stay with the second group for a little while, just so the characters are fleshed out a bit before we leave them for a while.
Agreed.
Also, I tried to make an alias for Jazeed, but the name field is two characters short to get his full name! Tragedy!
Agreed.
Motion carries! Derek, shoot me an email with some idea of what your secondary character is (a wizard or sorcerer, I hope...) and I'll insert you into the action for Monday.
Ok, the Archivist. After talking last night, I went a-searching, and I really like the class, and I think that it fits my character concept very well. I like that it can wear armor (although for PF, should that be downgraded to light armor only?), and I like that the class' focus is on dark secrets that it finds by rooting around in church basements and ancient temples.
However, aside from the standard spell progression and Scribe Scroll feat, it doesn't really have any healing capabilities. No channeling or spontaneous casting. Normally, I wouldn't have a problem with that, but Jazeed kind of needs to be the party's healer, and I don't see the Archivist serving that role.
Is there a feat that allows spontaneous casting, maybe? Or a feat that would allow Archivist and Cleric caster levels to stack if I multiclass into it?
Is there a feat that allows spontaneous casting, maybe? Or a feat that would allow Archivist and Cleric caster levels to stack if I multiclass into it?
Lemme review the archivist tonight. Maybe I can find a slick way to roll it in with the cleric base class as a set of options. Alternatively, a channel energy feat is something I can think about.
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Archivists are somewhat weak compared to clerics - if the spell list stays the same, they get more spells per day than anyone else, though!
Yeah, there's no turn undead, thus no channel. But all is not lost! You have scribe scroll. With experience points removed from the cost of creating objects, you can create scrolls of cure light wounds at 12.5 gold apiece - that way you don't have to memorize only heal spells.
The more I think about it, even if nothing changes, multi-classing into Archivist coould be pretty cool.
The more I think about it, even if nothing changes, multi-classing into Archivist coould be pretty cool.
Only if I can think of a nifty way for the spellcasting to stack; otherwise, at cleric 4/archivist 4, for example, you're casting 2nd level spells (max) instead of 4th level spells. And that would suck.
Looking at the archivist, you've essentially got a cleric chassis:
So the real difference is, clerics channel energy and get domain powers. Archivists get dark knowledge and dread secrets and such. So what if there were Dark Knowledge domains? And maybe have a Dread Secret feat that works off of channel energy? Then almost any cleric could be built as an archivist. That's the general starting point I'd like to pursue; I'll work on it and have something for you by next session. Group ideas and input are welcome!
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Looking at the archivist, you've essentially got a cleric chassis:
The class says d6 HD, but that would be bumped to d8 per the Pathfinder HD-BAB linkage standard.
The Archivist has a 1/2 BAB progression. D6 would be correct, if that is kept.
So the real difference is, clerics channel energy and get domain powers. Archivists get dark knowledge and dread secrets and such. So what if there were Dark Knowledge domains? And maybe have a Dread Secret feat that works off of channel energy? Then almost any cleric could be built as an archivist. That's the general starting point I'd like to pursue; I'll work on it and have something for you by next session. Group ideas and input are welcome!
Dark knowledge is, essentially, Bardic buffs based off knowledge checks. That's how I look at it, anyway.
The Archivist has a 1/2 BAB progression. D6 would be correct, if that is kept.
Doh! Right you are. Maybe a wizard start would be logical... but then we've got this other stuff... OK, I can see keeping it a base class. Dunno what to do about spellcasting progression if Jafar wants to multiclass, though... I'll keep thinking.
I already have an Elvish wizard ready to roll. He's first level, stats/feats upon request.
Awesome! If you can give me a brief summary (including birthplace/bakcground, if you've made that up), I'll fit him in for Monday.
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The Archivist has a 1/2 BAB progression. D6 would be correct, if that is kept.Doh! Right you are. Maybe a wizard start would be logical... but then we've got this other stuff... OK, I can see keeping it a base class. Dunno what to do about spellcasting progression if Jafar wants to multiclass, though... I'll keep thinking.
It's an interesting class. It borrows elements of Bards, Clerics and Wizards. I would keep the Cleric base.
Compared to a cleric, the Archivist gives up:
- Base Attack Bonus (+3/4 to +1/2)
- Shield Proficiency
- Favored Weapon Proficiency
- Domain Spells
- Domain Powers
- Channel Energy
- Full knowledge of all divine spells
- Ability to memorize spells without a Spellbook
Compared to a cleric, the Archivist gains:
- +2 skill points per level
- Ability to learn all divine spells (druid, ranger, paladin)
- Scribe Scroll Feat
- Dark Knowledge - bonuses to hit, damage, AC or daze or stun an enemy about 1/2 lvls every day
- 2 Bonus metamagic / knowledge / item creation feats
- Lore Mastery (skill bonuses on Linguistics and Knowledge skills)
- Still Mind - bonus vs enchantments
I think the cleric is clearly ahead in this exchange. Domain abilities and spells alone are quite a big loss - to add the lost of Channel Energy (which is much more valuable, imo, than Turn Undead unless you're using DMM cheese) adds insult to injury.
I think sacrificing medium armor for the skill points, as with cloistered cleric, and giving up domains for Dread Knowledge is probably a pretty even trade - maybe still slightly in favor of the cleric.
I think sacrificing medium armor for the skill points, as with cloistered cleric, and giving up domains for Dread Knowledge is probably a pretty even trade - maybe still slightly in favor of the cleric.
True enough... really, to me it'll hinge on a careful perusal of what non-cleric spells can be learned, under what circumstances. If they can ultimately cast as well as a wizard, then I like the wizard base, and keep in the bonus feats for still mind, etc. If not, a cleric base seems more appropriate.