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How about this: Max for HD + Con bonus at 1st level (so a fighter with 14 Con would start with 12 hp). Thereafter, you can either: (a) choose average hp without rolling (the fighter would take 5 at 2nd level, 6 at 3rd, 5 at 4th, etc.), or (b) roll for hp, but accept whatever number comes up (even if it's a 1). In either case, add Con bonus to the result, of course.
One thing I like wrt HP rules are rules that removes all importance of what class you start with at level 1.
Examples:
Level 1: 6 + 1/2 HD + 1 + Con Modifier
Level 2+: 1/2 HD + 1 + Con Modifier
(i.e. Ranger 1: 6 + 6 + Con Mod; Fighter 2/Cleric 1: 6 + 12 + 5 + 3 x Con Mod)
or
Level 1: Roll + Con Modifier + Con score
Level 2: Roll + Con Modifier
etc.
That way, if I start with a level in Wizard but move on to include Ranger levels, I'm not sacrificing 4 hit points. The class I take at first level has no bearing on my eventual hit point total. These are just smaple rules I've seen out there that might be reasonable possibilities.
Mmmmmm--Tasty.
Hi again, folks!
Um, I don't want to make a nuisance out of myself, but I'm not clear on what's supposed to happen next, as far as me meeting someone in the group. It looks to me like houstonderek was volunteered to meet up with me, but he hasn't posted in this thread since before I introduced myself, so I'm guessing he doesn't even know I exist. He's probably busy, which is fine.
Silverhair did e-mail me, however, to talk to me about the Pathfinder Socity games at Asgard games every Sunday (and it doesn't look like I'll make it this Sunday, either), so we e-mailed back and forth, a bit. He's also started including me on the House Rules e-mails that have been going out (and I'm not even sure which game those are for), and I think I correctly picked Kirth Gersen's e-mail address from that list to take him up on his offer to meet up over in Westchase, but that was a couple days ago, and I'm not even sure I have the e-mail address correct.
So, I just want to throw out there that I'm still interested in meeting up to see if we're a good fit for each other, and I don't want it to fall through because of my inaction. Feel free to respond to me here or at my e-mail address: jshjsh [at] hotmail.
Talk to you soon,
Jeff
Level 1: Roll + Con Modifier + Con score
I'm pretty sure Derek and I would both vote against this one; we LIKE for 1st level characters to be fairly weak. Adding Con score makes them nigh-unbeatable right out of the gate, unless you give that to monsters and NPCs as well, in which case it does nothing but drag out fights intolerably.
Anyway, 4 hp is a small price to pay in exchange for being able to singlehandedly and instantaneously auto-win against up to 3 people per day with a color spray. After that, I LIKE for wizards to actually have some use for a bodyguard!
...And as of that last post, I'm back in town and anxious to begin.
Who can come Wednesday? Who can come Thursday? Let's do a head count and get started!!!
I can come Wednesday but not Thursday.
I can come Wednesday but not Thursday.
Righto... and Jess can come Thursday and not Wednesday. Either (or both) days are OK with me... Do I also recall correctly that Monday and Tuesday were no good for one or more people? (Jess, I seem to remember that Tuesdays were no good for you). Monday, maybe? Or is there a conflict with your work M/T nights, Derek?
Maybe we can set it up like a logic puzzle:
Player: M / T / W / Th / F / S / Su
KG: Y / Y / Y / Y / N / N / N
JD: ? / N / N / Y / ? / ? / ?
SH: Y / Y / Y / N / Y / N / N
HD: ? / ? / Y / ? / ? / ? / ?
EDIT: Updated for post below. So far, weekends are out (2 players unavailable). Other days open for discussion.
In order to clarify my interest, I am available Monday through Wednesday, or Friday. The truly only days I am not available are Sunday and Thursday.
EDIT: Y/Y/Y/N/Y/N/N
Jeff, got your phone message (and email, obviously) -- looking forward to meeting with you.
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I can come Wednesday but not Thursday.Righto... and Jess can come Thursday and not Wednesday. Either (or both) days are OK with me... Do I also recall correctly that Monday and Tuesday were no good for one or more people? (Jess, I seem to remember that Tuesdays were no good for you). Monday, maybe? Or is there a conflict with your work M/T nights, Derek?
Maybe we can set it up like a logic puzzle:
Player: M / T / W / Th / F / S / Su
KG: Y / Y / Y / Y / N / N / N
JD: ? / N / N / Y / ? / ? / ?
SH: Y / Y / Y / N / Y / N / N
HD: ? / ? / Y / ? / ? / ? / ?EDIT: Updated for post below. So far, weekends are out (2 players unavailable). Other days open for discussion.
Hey! Sorry I missed this! Been a busy weekend!
I am available:
Monday: Yes
Tuesday: No
Wednesday: No
Thursday: Yes-ish (sometimes the tuesday / wednesday thing carries over to Thursday, usually not)
Friday: Yes
Saturday: No
Sunday: No
I am willing to skip my Wednesday thing if that's the only day that's good for everyone else, though!
Player: M / T / W / Th / F / S / Su
KG: Y / Y / Y / Y / N / N / N
JD: Y / N / N / Y / Y / N / N
SH: Y / Y / Y / N / Y / N / N
HD: ? / ? / Y / ? / ? / ? / ?
We've got three "yeses" for Monday, more than any other single day. I vote we hold games on Mondays, with possibly an additional Wednesday or Thursday game if Derek can't make it on Mondays. I'll send an email to everyone with directions forthwith.
I thought I saw that Wednesday had three "yeses" also. That hinges on whether Derek still has Wednesday off or not though.
I thought I saw that Wednesday had three "yeses" also. That hinges on whether Derek still has Wednesday off or not though.
Good eye -- I should have said, "Three and a half yeses," given the one maybe. Still, Wednesday can be a follow-up game day, if Derek can't make Mondays. That way, if anyone else can't make one day or the other, there's another alternative. Two days/two sets of PCs would work out nicely, in that case...
Hi again, all!
Well, Kirth and I never actually got together, but we did have a quick phone call, and I got the invite for tomorrow night's meet-up/possible first play session. So, let me just tell everyone that I've got a Dwarf Wizard concept in mind, and these are the stats I just now rolled for him using Integer.org's dice roller:
14, 5, 9, 7, 16, 9
9, 10, 13, 14, 8, 16
10, 14, 11, 13, 14, 12
11, 10, 17, 11, 17, 13
That's the order I rolled them in. I'll probably also go with the fourth set roll to get those 17s, but if I need to stick with one of the earlier rolls, please let me know. I'll be happy with any of them except for that first set. :)
I haven't come up with a name for him, yet, but he's gruff and pretty snarky. People will probably think he's kind of a dick unless you get to know him. He wears boots, pants, and a knee length tunic in mostly drab colors; and a black oversized vest with black wide-brimmed hat. Black, curly hair and beard, and he's always chomping down on a cigar.
(His wardrobe takes a back seat to his background or even his specialization, apparently, which I'll have to review and decide on.)
All right, I'm pumped to create a new character and meet up with some gamers! See you all tomorrow night.
That's the order I rolled them in. I'll probably also go with the fourth set roll to get those 17s, but if I need to stick with one of the earlier rolls, please let me know.
Was sorting of hoping for "roll 4d6, drop the lowest, for six stats total, once per character," rather than "everyone do that, but 4 times." I agree that the 1st set is uncharacteristically lousy, and the 4th equally good: so how about canceling them, and picking the 2nd or 3rd?
Gotcha.
I'll go with the 2nd set, which is the first set I rolled after "worst mage ever" set.
I'll go with the 2nd set, which is the first set I rolled after "worst mage ever" set.
Heh. Honestly, the 3rd set would be fine, too -- just as long as we're all starting at "mortal" stats as opposed to "Prince of Amber" caliber.
P.S. Love the visuals -- excellent description. Good stuff!
OK, I've gotten feedback from Silverhair (probably arriving a bit early) and from Jeff (probably getting here a bit late). Derek? Jess? Would love to see either (or preferrably both) of you!
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I might be abble to make it tonight, not 100% sure yet though.
What rules are we using?
Sorry, I've had a bad week and a half or so, haven't really had gaming on the brain...
Kirth:
Do you have a printer at the house? If so, can I forward an e-mail with an attachment (docx, for a job) I need printed out?
Do you have a printer at the house? If so, can I forward an e-mail with an attachment (docx, for a job) I need printed out?
I have a lousy printer that does B&W only (color hasn't worked in years), and even then it leaves random smears and blank spots. So if the printing is work-related, you might be better off at Kinko's or even a public library.
What rules are we using?
Pathfinder as a base; beyond that, we'll agree on houserules tonight hopefully (when introducing them, I like to have a discussion & vote, as opposed to declaring by DM decree).
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Level 1: Roll + Con Modifier + Con score
I'm pretty sure Derek and I would both vote against this one; we LIKE for 1st level characters to be fairly weak. Adding Con score makes them nigh-unbeatable right out of the gate, unless you give that to monsters and NPCs as well, in which case it does nothing but drag out fights intolerably.
Anyway, 4 hp is a small price to pay in exchange for being able to singlehandedly and instantaneously auto-win against up to 3 people per day with a color spray. After that, I LIKE for wizards to actually have some use for a bodyguard!
Those were merely examples of possible schemes to illustrate the idea of a hit point scheme for first level that didn't make your first level choice impinge on your future build with regard to hit points. If you don't care for the idea, that's cool. *shrug*
Those were merely examples of possible schemes to illustrate the idea of a hit point scheme for first level that didn't make your first level choice impinge on your future build with regard to hit points.
Understood. I look at it this way: 4 hp is a very significant hit at 1st level, as a reasonable tradeoff for having spellcasting ability right from the get-go. But compared to hundreds of hp at high levels, it's a vanishingly small percentage, so your future "build" choices can quickly swamp those few hp into insignficance.
Anyway, I'll happily split the difference and give you 1 free hp/level thereafter (max +2) if you'll give some indication as to whether Monday nights in general, and tonight in particular, are any good for you! (Due to bizarre IT priorities, I can't check personal email at work, but I can check Paizo.)
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Anyway, I'll happily split the difference and give you 1 free hp/level thereafter (max +2) if you'll give some indication as to whether Monday nights in general, and tonight in particular, are any good for you! (Due to bizarre IT priorities, I can't check personal email at work, but I can check Paizo.)
Bah, sorry, I should've indicated that I was coming right off. I will be there this Monday night, and Monday nights in general. No hit point bribes needed, that's just common courtesy I should've remembered from the get go. Sorry!
I will be there this Monday night, and Monday nights in general.
AWESOME!!!
Do you have a snack and/or beverage preference? (This question applies to everyone coming, btw -- I hope to get off work early enough to stop by the store on the way home.)
Either water or Dr Pepper for me. I am bringing a big bottle of water to drink on the bus so you need not buy for me.
Either water or Dr Pepper for me. I am bringing a big bottle of water to drink on the bus so you need not buy for me.
I'll try to stock some Dr. P. for you as well. Pretzels OK for a snack? As far as dinner, we might order a pizza or something -- I'm open to other suggestions as well. There's a Subway about a block away, for example.
OOOOOOHHHHH!!!!!! Eat Fresh!!!!
What is the anticipated time frame for the game? I am just asking so I know when to plan catching the bus back home.
What is the anticipated time frame for the game? I am just asking so I know when to plan catching the bus back home.
I'm hoping 6 until 9 or so. If buses have stopped then (I know Houston offers lousy service in general), hopefully there will be someone who lives nearer to you who can give you a lift. One of the topics for discussion will probably be some sort of carpooling!
I don't think they stop until around 1 am or so.
I don't think they stop until around 1 am or so.
If I stay up until 1 am gaming, I'll be useless for work tomorrow, so no problem there.
Headed up to Shepherd and Westheimer to catch the bus. See you in an hour or so. I have your phone number.
Headed up to Shepherd and Westheimer to catch the bus. See you in an hour or so. I have your phone number.
I'll try to be home by then. No guarantees. 5:45 at the latest, I hope.
Awesome first session! Many thanks to everyone who was able to attend.
Next week we'll get some combat encounters in, and hopefully also figure out what to do about dinner (in all the excitement, I forgot to eat last night).
Thanks again!
I enjoyed last night, also!
Don't worry about me concerning dinner. I honestly rarely eat it. I get plenty of food during the day, and adding a dinner on top of that is too much food for me. Sometimes I'll have a snack, but I'll worry about that.
Hey all, did we come up with any houserules that aren't on the list below? Did we nix anything on the list below? Thanks.
Regarding houserules, I have a few that I'd like to present for serious consideration. Remember, all things are subject to vote; I'm a facilitator and a creative consultant, not a dictator!
SKILLS. I have a lot of gripes with the Beta skills. I'd like to propose that we try some or even all of the following:
Knowledge (nature) becomes part of Survival.
Knowledge (the planes) and Knowledge (religion) merge.
Knowledge (warfare) is introduced for tactical assessments, military history, operation of siege engines, interpretation of military insignia, etc.
Knowledge (lore) is introduced to cover ancient history, lost civilizations, legendary figures, magical beasts, riddle contests, etc.
Intimidate and Sense Motive become part of Bluff.
Knowledge (local) and Gather Information become Streetwise.
Knowledge (dungeoneering) and dwarves' stonecunning get merged with Profession (mining) to form a collective "underground stuff" skill to be named.
Perform (acting) includes oratory, comedy, disguise, and all that kind of stuff.
Perform (music) works like linguistics: pick up new instruments or forms as you add ranks.
Perform (dance) works like Perform (music).
With only 3 Perform skills, bardic performance in the final rules will need to be tweaked.
Craft (fine arts) includes forgery.
Disable Device applies to all mechanical stuff, including figuring out how to operate secret doors. Spellcraft is used for disabling magic traps, and is a class skill for rogues. Use Magic Device becomes part of Spellcraft. COMBAT.
Swashbuckling isn't possible if people are stuck in one place. I propose that anyone can "trade" an iterative attack for 10 feet of tactical movement at will.
The "ready action" rules suck. I propose that attacks can be held, at your option, for use any time before your next turn as immediate actions.
If you combine these, you have the possibility of an 11th level fighter attacking once, waiting, and then charging 10...
I cannot remember all we agreed on changing either so a list would certainly help.
I do remember that we let every character of each race choose one favored class so that each character can get the +1 skill point or +1 hit point.
I was going to email a list with complete descriptions and tables, but my home internet is out again -- for now, a quick summary on the boards will have to do. Following is the skills list from above, somewhat expanded (blue items). Although it seems like a lot of nitpicking, the point is to consolidate the skills list into something easier to manage and run with during play -- for example, instead of having to debate over whether you make a Knowledge (insignia) or a Profession (soldier) or a Perception or a Bluff (sense motive) roll to interpret a military chain-of-command you're seeing, all military-related stuff is simply merged into a single Knowledge (Warfare) skill.
Hero Points/Action Points:
Everyone starts with one. Critical skills checks can generate more... and in rare cases, if someone pulls off something heroic enough for the whole table to spontaneously burst into cheering, a hero point might be awarded as a bonus. Once spent, a hero point is gone; they don't magically regenerate by "leveling up" or anything. However, an extra point will be given at the start of particularly tricky adventures, to simulate your knowledge and preparedness for "something big" being on the line.
You can spend a point to gain +1d6 to a d20 roll (as described in the SRD), or to completely reroll it. Action points can also be spent to catch lucky breaks/coincidences, or to suddenly remember things you "forgot." For example, if you're fighting lycanthropes and losing, you might spend an action point to suddenly "remember" that you received a vial of silversheen as a gift from that holy friar back in town (even if no such gift was ever mentioned in-game). More valuable or rare objects, or more outrageous coincidences, require more action points spent.
I do remember that we let every character of each race choose one favored class so that each character can get the +1 skill point or +1 hit point.
Yes. And half-elves should still get two favored classes, because otherwise they kind of get shafted in terms of racial traits.
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Awesome first session! Many thanks to everyone who was able to attend.
Next week we'll get some combat encounters in, and hopefully also figure out what to do about dinner (in all the excitement, I forgot to eat last night).Thanks again!
I can stop and pick something up on my way there if that's more convenient. :)
I'm still groping my way toward understanding how a lawful character acts when raised in a land like Aviona. I am (unsurprisingly, maybe) leaning toward a Japanese interpretation - the Japanese, to American eyes, are both freer and more confined than what Americans consider normal.
I guess what comes up is, how do you interpret lawful alignment. Is it "You obey the laws of the land" or "You prefer and tend toward order and structure in your life and choices"?
...the Japanese, to American eyes, are both freer and more confined than what Americans consider normal. I guess what comes up is, how do you interpret lawful alignment. Is it "You obey the laws of the land" or "You prefer and tend toward order and structure in your life and choices"?
From experience, your observation about the Japanese applies to the Germans as well; I saw a guy nearly get beat up or arrested for putting green glass in the brown glass recycling bin, and I was lectured about using crosswalks -- on a deserted dirt track with chickens wandering about, and not a car in sight. But these are the same people who serve beer to kids, and can't understand what the function of a bathing suit is.
So I have this same problem with alignment that you do. My longest-term character is congenitally allergic to authority... but has certain areas of tradition about which he's sentimental enough to die for. He's incredibly self-disciplined in terms of practice and meditation, but then might take a week off to spend in a hot tub drunk, maybe with a random girl. He tries to help everyone who needs it, but steals from big churches when he runs out of beer money. I pegged him as CG, but really, the D&D alignment system is ill-suited to deal with real people.
In Aviona, an elf might be scrupulously polite, to avoid dueling challenges... is he thereby being Lawful, or just smart? What about the challengers? They're within legal rights to challenge obnoxious SOBs to duels, but can be incredibly obnoxious themselves in other areas. I'm describing this as "chaotic" in alignment because their bahavior, to outsiders, seems bizarre and unpredictable -- even if it's actually a clear result of societal pressures and well-established personal rights granted by law ("lawful").
So overall, I find it's best to worry overly about alignment only for extraplanar beings that embody cosmic principles (angels, devils, etc.), and to focus on the mortals' motives and personality, rather than trying to graph their alignments.
As my Cleric's Deity is NG I was thinking of being sort of leaning toward a sense of order and working for the greater good of all. However, the Prestige Paladin requires a Lawful Good outlook. Do you see any problem with my thoughts on the subject?
As my Cleric's Deity is NG I was thinking of being sort of leaning toward a sense of order and working for the greater good of all. However, the Prestige Paladin requires a Lawful Good outlook. Do you see any problem with my thoughts on the subject?
No problems: you might personally view stability and self-discipline as a means to that greater good (LG)... maybe because you lack your deity's wider cosmic frame of reference, or maybe because your deity, embodying certain universal principles, is constrained in her outloook by those principles as well.
Sounds like a plan to me. I had fun Monday, just having trouble getting into character.