A word to the wise: with two mountain dwarves in tow, it might not be a total cakewalk into Hylore City -- leaving plenty of time for development and discovery... ;)
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Usually I have a hook into my character, generally a strong personality quirk or a driving ambition/need, and this easily used character trait is how I steer my character until they get more fleshed out in my head. I just need to find the right hook for Sheraviel. :)
Edit: AAAAH! Shipping notice! SHIPPING NOTICE!!!!
Usually I have a hook into my character, generally a strong personality quirk or a driving ambition/need, and this easily used character trait is how I steer my character until they get more fleshed out in my head. I just need to find the right hook for Sheraviel. :)
Given her service in the Estren Territories among the wood elf tribes, hill dwarf bandits, and human frontiersmen -- and her apparent acceptance of dwarves -- maybe she's something of a cultural anthropologist? That would gibe with the trip to the bar and interest in the ogre mage, too! Maybe grab a rank in Streetwise and/or Diplomacy next level, to simulate the interest in game terms...
AAAAH! Shipping notice! SHIPPING NOTICE!!!!
I'm ignoring mine. Still haven't gotten the last segment of LoF...
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AAAAH! Shipping notice! SHIPPING NOTICE!!!!I'm ignoring mine. Still haven't gotten the last segment of LoF...
I also ordered the tome of secrets. Mostly because I have impulse control problems. Oh! And because it has a swashbuckler base class. heh.
I figure she's curious - hence the study of magic mixed in with the sword work she's already proficient at. And the Ogre-mage was odd. Much more interesting than that stulifyingly boring, not to mention insultingly staffed inn.
*sniff*
Allow me to introduce my friend, Rim Cairntracker.
Allow me to introduce my friend, Rim Cairntracker.
Is that your cleric's name? P.S. All characters should have names by Monday, at least!
If not, you will be named Bob. If necessary, Bob1, Bob2, Bob3...
Either that, or it defaults to DM choice. "Hey, Skippy! What are you doing? And what about Joe Schlepp over there?"
P.S. What was the wizard calling you? Been trying to remember all afternoon...
Yes that is my cleric's name. I suppose his nickname is "Champ".
Nickname?
So, now that I'm creating a character for Pathfinder, I'm reading, rather than skimming, parts of the rules. I just wanted to point out a few of Pathfinder's changes from 3.5 that interact with the house rules:
Knowledge (local) and Gather Information become Streetwise.
Gather Information has been rolled into Diplomacy in Pathfinder, which makes sense since they're both Charisma based skills. In the houserules, what ability should be tied to Streetwise? The two skills that it's made from were Intelligence and Charisma, but I can see similarities between it and Survival, which is Wisdom. But Streetwise definitely has a Charisma component to it, so I'm not sure.
It's not something Agun is taking, so I don't have a strong opinion either way.
I really like that you merged Knowledge (nobility) with another skill, and these two are definitely complimentary, but this also mixes an Intelligence based skill with a Charisma based skill. What do you think of having Knowledge (nobility) checks being attempted by Diplomacy or by Knowledge (history) at the player's choice?
Craft (fine arts) includes forgery.
Pathfinder merges Decipher Script, Forgery, and Speak Language into Linguistics. All three of them being together seems a stretch, but I can understand wanting to truncate the skill list. I think I like the houserule better, but I'm just pointing it out.
Disable Device applies to all mechanical stuff, including opening locks, , and figuring out how to operate secret doors
I think that this is all part of Pathfinder's changes to Disable Device or even the original 3.5 rule. So good job! :)
1. In the houserules, what ability should be tied to Streetwise? The two skills that it's made from were Intelligence and Charisma, but I can see similarities between it and Survival, which is Wisdom. But Streetwise definitely has a Charisma component to it, so I'm not sure.
2. I really like that you merged Knowledge (nobility) with another skill, and these two are definitely complimentary, but this also mixes an Intelligence based skill with a Charisma based skill. What do you think of having Knowledge (nobility) checks being attempted by Diplomacy or by Knowledge (history) at the player's choice?
3. Pathfinder merges Decipher Script, Forgery, and Speak Language into Linguistics.
4. Disable Device applies to all mechanical stuff, including opening locks, , and figuring out how to operate secret doors... I think that this is all part of Pathfinder's changes to Disable Device or even the original 3.5 rule. So good job! :)
In reply:
1. I'm envisioning not just finding an illegal arms dealer, but stuff like figuring out how to use the public transit without ending up in Harlem. This is an invaluable skill for use in urban chases like the one in The French Connection. That said, Wisdom has a lot to recommend it, but I'm still inclined to use Charisma. Opinions?
2. If it's ancient kings of some forgotten nation, use Knowledge (Lore), which has subsumed Knowledge (history). If it's finding out who the current Duke of Frogstown is, and how he should be addressed, Diplomacy seems like a logical choice. Rather than "player's choice" (regardless of the scenario or logic), maybe can all adjudicate it on a case-by-case basis.
3. Forging paintings or currency, to me, has a lot more to do with art than with linguistics. Even to make an official-looking document, it's not so important that you write well, but that you make the thing look and "feel" authentic (and you need a sample to work from anyway, if you want to forge a passport or something, so again linguistics is irrelevant). P.S. I'd use Cha or maybe Dex for Fine Art, not Int!
4. The difference is that Pathfinder puts finding traps in Perception (rather than Disable Device), and puts disabling magical traps in Disable Device (instead of into Spellcraft/Use Magic Device).
--
Overall, I've tried to keep the skills relatively logical, but to make large enough groupings that (a) they're all more or less equal in scope, instead of some being way better than others; (b) we're not forced to pick between two minor variants of basically the same thing; and (c) two lousy skill points go further than you think. The correlary is that there's bound to be some overlap between them (as in your 2nd example), and many cases in which things get shuffled differently than in Pathfinder (which makes no effort at all towards parity among skills).
If anyone strongly prefers the Pathfinder rules as written, we can always use them, but I hope we can give these a try and see how they work.
P.S. Add this to the list: Ride should be merged with Handle Animal. Yes, I know one is Dex-based and one is Cha-based, but unless you're doing actobatic stunts on the horse (which would require the Acrobatics skill), it's mostly about controlling the animal, so the merged skill would use Cha.
In an ideal world (as in Victory Games rules, for example...) each skill would have up to two relevant abilities: (Dex+Cha)/2, for example. But in the interest of simplicity, one attribute per skill is fine.
I'm fine with the house rules as written. I hope I didn't give the impression that I felt otherwise. I was just looking for clarification on associated abilities, I guess.
I'm fine with the house rules as written. I hope I didn't give the impression that I felt otherwise. I was just looking for clarification on associated abilities, I guess.
Gotcha -- I maybe go overboard in explaining logic that's probably already obvious -- a holdover from being a former schoolteacher!
Like I said, picking one and only one governing ability score is neither easy nor realistic in a lot of cases, we'll just need to agree on one and go with it.
For Monday the 10th, it looks like I'll be able to arrive earlier than I did last week, but I'll have to leave around 8:30 or 9:00. That's just for that night, though. Most of the time, my schedule will be like it was on Monday the 3rd.
For Monday the 10th, it looks like I'll be able to arrive earlier than I did last week, but I'll have to leave around 8:30 or 9:00. That's just for that night, though. Most of the time, my schedule will be like it was on Monday the 3rd.
No worries -- game times are always secondary to work and family (I left Derek's & Jerry's Sunday game because my wife's schedule finally changed to give her Sundays off).
Thanks for the heads-up!
Oh shnit. The game just went in the toilet.
There is a 99.999999999999999999999999999999% chance I will be there Monday. Consider this fair warning.
If you have a rogue character, I've got a really excellent place to put you into the adventure! Anything else can easily be worked in at one of the port stops as well.
KG, did you get a chance to look over the info on the Runeblade? I would like to see what that type of PC can do. I could make that a 3rd PC if you have reservations about it.
EDIT: Sorry to be a pest. Will be ready for tomorrow. Now I have to go kill some PC's of my own. See you tomorrow.
KG, did you get a chance to look over the info on the Runeblade? I would like to see what that type of PC can do. I could make that a 3rd PC if you have reservations about it.
Not in detail yet; been working double-time on the first 2 adventures for the campaign. Will let you know tomorrow -- so far I have no qualms about it, so I imagine it will be just fine with little or no adjustment.
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There is a 99.999999999999999999999999999999% chance I will be there Monday. Consider this fair warning.If you have a rogue character, I've got a really excellent place to put you into the adventure! Anything else can easily be worked in at one of the port stops as well.
Rogue is one of the two I'm making this evening. Silverhair is going to come by later (he's running his Sunday game right now, and I need to run China to the airport here in a bit), so plan on working him in where you think is best :)
I'm still thinking ranger for #2, but I'd like to wait until I get my mitts on the final Pathfinder rules so I can see how I can work the "urban" angle. I have a plan...
I am REALLY looking forward to gaming with you again, bro!
I am REALLY looking forward to gaming with you again, bro!
This is a really exceptional group so far. Silverhair I knew of course -- Jess and Jeff were new to me, and both bring a lot of humor, energy, enthusiasm, game knowledge, and intelligence to the table. That said, they're obviously smart enough not to read the spoilers below...
Derek only:
Derek: If your Intelligence is 12+ (or you score a 15 or better on a Streetwise check):
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Erik:
Str: 13, Dex: 17, Con: 10, Int: 13, Wis: 12, Cha: 17
HP: 11, AC: 15
Int: +3
Toughness, Weapon Finesse.
His "enforcing" mostly consists of bluffing and diplomacy, as he isn't exactly tough, but he is definitely glib and loquacious. (Is Diplomacy a class skill for me?).
I'm ready to go. :)
So I wound up with a total of three PC's. The original Cleric/Protector from the first night's game, a Half-orc Runeblade which is similar to the old Viking Runemasters, and a half-orc Druid with a 4 legged animal companion. Derek and Kirth should be familiar with the last one or at least his cousin.
As mentioned in my email, half-orcs are ostracized from civilized society in this homebrew setting. They have no legal status in Aviona as citizens -- so if someone attacks you or steals from you, by the bizarre elven legal "code" no crime has been committed.
Just FYI -- you can still play them, it'll just make life a bit more difficult.
That said, they're obviously smart enough not to read the spoilers below...
Ooh, appealing to my ego. SMRT!
Anyway, I guess I should start thinking of a 2nd character, huh? I was thinking about what you were saying about how the different races interact with each other, and I've got a Halfling Rogue concept in mind if that doesn't leave any fundamental role out of the 2nd party.
"SMRT!"
Ooh... Simpsons references! I have chosen wisely with this one.
KG, I changed the Runeblade to a Half-elf, and created a Half-elf Druid. Also, GOT MINE TODAY!!!!!!! I'll bring it and the other books I said I would bring last week. I hope you have some latex gloves. I don't want any fingerprints but mine on my book. j/k
1. KG, I changed the Runeblade to a Half-elf, and created a Half-elf Druid.
2. Also, GOT MINE TODAY!!!!!!! I'll bring it and the other books I said I would bring last week. I hope you have some latex gloves. I don't want any fingerprints but mine on my book. j/k
1. That will definitely make adventuring in the cities easier for them. Human would work really well for the runeblade, too, because the Kingdom of Northwind is all-human, and parts of it have that Viking flavor. In fact, the more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to encourage you make the runeblade a half-orc from Northwind who favors his human parent enough to pass for human. That way you get the race you want, but it's not actively working against you. (The druid could go either way, but if you want him to interact with others, half-elf will be a much better deal for him overall.)
2. Nitrile gloves OK? Got boxes of those for sampling work... But, seriously, no need to haul that 600-pound book around on our account.
Oh yes there is. Derek threatened to not give me a ride if I didn't bring Crypt of the Everflame and the first chapter of Bastards of Erebus, along with the Core book. I managed to make some copies of the character sheet in case anyone wants to change to the "real" sheet.
EDIT: In the Campaign Setting there is a feat named Veiled Vileness which allows a Half-orc to "pass" as a human.
1. Oh yes there is. Derek threatened to not give me a ride if I didn't bring Crypt of the Everflame and the first chapter of Bastards of Erebus, along with the Core book. I managed to make some copies of the character sheet in case anyone wants to change to the "real" sheet.
2. EDIT: In the Campaign Setting there is a feat named Veiled Vileness which allows a Half-orc to "pass" as a human.
1. Good -- Derek can read the rulebook while we get caught up to where his character gets introduced. I've got Crypt at home, BTW.
2. PERFECT! I'd even give you that as a bonus feat for the runeblade.
Cool! I'll bring the book (CS) so you can look at it. Can I get a copy of the Houseruled Character sheet?
Cool! Can I get a copy of the Houseruled Character sheet?
Of course... but it'll have to wait until after the game tonight.
Hey KG, don't forget to send us the adjusted Character sheet for the game.
Hey KG, don't forget to send us the adjusted Character sheet for the game.
It's on my "to-do" list for tonight. I also intend to summarize combat tweaks. Feats and classes (I intend to rewrite the fighter) will wait until I get the final rules and mull them over a bit.
@ Jess: So far for the fighter, I have the following basic changes that affect you right away:
I've been looking over the feats Silverhair provided. Improved and Greater Brew Potion, while obvious feats to include, got me to thinking. Specifically, in terms of adding uses to bolster seldomly-taken skills. What if there were only one (1) item creation feat, "Craft Magical Item," that covered everything except scrolls -- but which required ranks in a Craft skill equal to the minimum level to take the old feat?
(etc.)
This would free up wizards' bonus feats for use on metamagic feats (which hardly anyone ever takes, as-is), and would free up a lot of feats for clerics and sorcerers who are normally starved for them.
I'm not totally sold on this idea; simply putting it out there like thinking out loud. I wonder if anyone can provide feedback, or spot problems (or benefits) that I've overlooked?
I changed the Runeblade back to a Half-orc, and added the Veiled Vileness feat to his list of feats. Now I have a Dwarf Cleric, a Half-orc Runeblade, and a Half-elf Druid. Think I have enough covered?
EDIT: I am interested in your choice of making Craft the skill of choice for creating potions up to 9th level.
I changed the Runeblade back to a Half-orc, and added the Veiled Vileness feat to his list of feats. Now I have a Dwarf Cleric, a Half-orc Runeblade, and a Half-elf Druid. Think I have enough covered?
EDIT: I am interested in your choice of making Craft the skill of choice for creating potions up to 9th level.
Great! Sounds like a good line-up, Jerry. We'll keep the cleric until it's time to add some characters to the mix, then bring in the runeblade (who is starting to sound like a cool character), and still have the druid in the wings if we need someone on the fly. Thank you!!!
Re: brewing potions, it seemed silly to me that 3 feats were needed, but no alchemy skill at all. One feat and increasing ranks in Alchemy seemed like a much better system to me personally -- it gives the Craft (Alchemy) skill some real game use at higher levels, in addition to the minor use at 1st level for making acid vials or whatever. To me, good game design for skills makes them equally valuable with other skills at all levels.
I like the crafting rules.
I'm out of town until Sunday afternoon, so I'll be out of touch until I see you guys on Monday.
Kirth, here is something I just saw from Matthew Morris on another thread. It is not something I want, just something to look at and think about considering how Pathfinder worked the Half-orc.
Half Orcs-
+2 strength -2 int, +2 floating. You can favour your Orc heritage (+4 Str, -2 int) or your human heritage (+2 str +0 int) or something else.
Kirth, here is something I just saw from Matthew Morris on another thread. It is not something I want, just something to look at and think about considering how Pathfinder worked the Half-orc. +2 strength -2 int, +2 floating. You can favour your Orc heritage (+4 Str, -2 int) or your human heritage (+2 str +0 int) or something else.
Honestly, I was a big fan of the Beta racial adjustments. Otherwise, Matthew's scheme could work, with two caveats:
1. The floating +2 can't also go into Str; way too much "Hulk Smash!" for a dump stat -2 Int character with a 24 starting strength. (Shudder)2. I'd also recommend not putting the +2 into Charisma, because overly charming half-orcs sort of strain my sense of credibility...
That said, I have no problem with the floating +2 offsetting the -2 in Int for a half-orc; that seems perfectly legitimate to me.
I was thinking about either cancelling the -2 Int penalty or maybe putting the floating +2 into either Dex or Con.
Sounds fine.
EDIT:
I'd also recommend not putting the +2 into Charisma, because overly charming half-orcs sort of strain my sense of credibility...
I take it back; the discussion on the half-orc thread has convinced me. So, yes, +2 Str, -2 Int, +2 to anything except Str is OK.
With the final rules out, I'm working on expanded versions of the classes (I emailed a rough draft fighter that still needs some work). If there are any feats, variant class features, fighter talents, or rogue talents you'd like to propose, let me know and we can take a look at them and hopefully roll them into the base classes. I'm trying to get to where most non-caster prestige classes can be subsumed into the base classes instead -- today I managed to cobble the duelist into the core fighter using talents, and all of the Complete Warrior Swashbuckler class features can now be covered by a fighter/rogue.
Did you obtain the PDF? Also, do you suggest I rework the Runeblade or leave him as he is for now? I envy you your attention to detail in reworking some of the rules to increase play fun. I don't have your experience level.
Also, do you suggest I rework the Runeblade or leave him as he is for now? I envy you your attention to detail in reworking some of the rules to increase play fun.
So far I really like the runeblade as-is, although I sort of wish some of the old 2e runes had made it in -- maybe we can add some more runes, if the class becomes popular. Also, off-hand the runes/day seem a bit on the low side. It's hard to tell without seeing it in play -- let's wait and make adjustments to it as we go, rather than up front.
P.S. If "attention to detail" ever becomes "OCD nit-picking" and starts interfering with fun instead of adding to it, please let me know ASAP! Looking over the final Pathfinder rules, I see dozens of areas that could use a bit of judicious tinkering, but sooner or later people might get sick of it...