Several people have considered it, and there's been more than one topic on the subject (although I could only find this one at the moment), however I don't think it's actually been done yet.
Me too! I've already converted a large portion of the Savage Tide for an Exalted second edition campaign, now I'm trying to decide if I want to convert Savage Tide or Age of Worms for a 4E game.
Hi
Do you think a convertion of STAP to 4e could be done?
I realy would like to play it under 4e rules.THX
Just about any adventure from just about any system can be converted to to just about any other system. Its all a matter of how hard it is and how much effort one is willing to put forward.
That said, I have seen full on conversions of Burnt Offerings and The Whispering Cairn. All indications are that such conversions were not unduly taxing. It therefore stands to reason that you could convert the Savage Tide AP fairly easily.
That said, I have seen full on conversions of Burnt Offerings and The Whispering Cairn. All indications are that such conversions were not unduly taxing. It therefore stands to reason that you could convert the Savage Tide AP fairly easily.
Low level adventures convert easily between systems. It's the higher level adventures that are challenging. It would be much harder to convert something like Enemies of My Enemy than it would be to convert something like The Whispering Cairn.
Hi
Do you think a convertion of STAP to 4e could be done?
I realy would like to play it under 4e rules.THX
Well, I definitely hope so, because this is exactly what I am doing with my current group. So far we have only just finished liberating the Blue Nixie, but it was pretty easy to convert.
Not sure how it will go as we get further in, and I have no idea how the higher levels will play out. But we'll see how we go.
I've been kinda of going over things in my head, and I think the conversion will go smoothly up until the meeting with Olangru. His abilities are ... difficult to replicate (for me, at least) in 4E at the levels for which I would like to use him. Anyone have any ideas?
For starters What I did for olangru I did for all Bar-lguras. I gave him teleport 8 and the ability to shift 4 squares as a move action. Bar-lguras have no place being brutes.
Then I gave Olangru a fly speed and gave him a special 1d6 extra damage every time he charged. IMO this should be the capstone fight for heroic. I imagine he'd have more than a few ranger levels.
In addition, once you get past Olangru, things become exceptionally easy to stat. Stating the volcano god would be a bit difficult, but the Crimson Dawn fight lends itself particularly well to the minion system, and the players won't have as much resources to say, turn into a hydra and sink the ships one by one. Vanthus is simply a high level Cambion ranger with a few fighter feats.
The avatars of demogorgon may give you a problem, as will the rest of the Temple with it's Save or Die traps where ever you look. The solution to that is altering the mechanic. After an attack on will, the characters take damage and lose healing surges.
Malcancethet can be handled as follows. She fell into the gaping maw in the astral sea that is the abyss, and quickly established power. Eventually, she did escape, but not before her betrayal was detected by Demogorgon, who trapped several of her succubi. Macancethet is striving to recover them.
I also considered this. I think (for me at least) I would have to re-work some of the story line. I like a more "Role" play version of STAP. The first few adventures are perfect but then the story tends to change.
I'd also need to house rule 4E. A few things from 3.X I'd like to add in.
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I'd also need to house rule 4E. A few things from 3.X I'd like to add in.
I am about to start the STAP in probably two sessions when the group reaches Sasserine. They are currently still in a modified Winterhaven and being run through a modified KotS. I have 8 PC's, so I needed to modify.
I am linking the two, and am looking forward to run the STAP, and have nearly finished converting There Is No Honor. I just have to do Rowyn and the the last bit of the Lotus Dragon Guildhall.
What are some things you would suggest and what are some things you want to bring over from 3.x?
thanks,
Bruce
What do your 4E rhagodessa's stats look like?
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I am at work right now, so I do not recall off the top of my head, although I have had to move the levels of the modules up to TiNH starting at level 3, because they will be finished KotS around level 3-4.
After work if I can get online I will post them.
What are some of the things you have thought of keeping from 3.x is what I am interested in.
So I'm running STAP in 3.x but am thinking of adapting it to 4th for a second game aswell.... (I really like the story) and have so far had a few thoughts that, while not perfect are at least worth getting feedback on. So lemme know what you think?
Rhadogessa, either reskinning the choker or making it a level 1 solo lurker? I'm leaning toward the latter, and then using the standard pre solo version levelled up for later in TiNH.
and using Savage template as similiar to the elite templates in the dmg? I think this works but so many savage creatures to the fights, theyd have to be a level or so below the party (not bad actually). This template would give 2 to Ac and Fort,bonus hp per the elite rules, +2 squares movement, Darkvision, A bite attack as a minor action? that causes Savage fever (a minor at will, does maybe d6 +str and has Level +2 to git vs AC?), and Death Throws encounter ability (Encounter, Imiidiete interrupt, Trigger: Upon reaching 0 hp)Attack all adjacent squares Level +2 vs Reflex; d6+Con Acid damage. Squares become difficult terrain, and any who enter are attacked; Level +2 reflex, d6+con damage?
and Finally my "Savage Fever" Disease, with no actual ability score loss and damage the intelligence damage is kinda out, but it seems healing surges are key to these things now (and thus bad for npcs):
Savage Fever Level 5 disease?
Attack +8 vs. Fort, Endurance: Improve Dc 20, Maintain DC 15, Worsen DC 14 or lower.
Target is Cured <- Initial Effect: Target loses a healing surge and cannot regain it until cured, Target also starts to become insane <--> Each Failure indicates the target loses two more healing surges and cannot regain them until the target gets better, if all surges are gone move to final stage -> Final Stage: Infected Creature becomes a Savage creature and attacks all non- Savage creatures.
Anyway thats what I have so far, any suggestions?
A new way to do the Savage Fever has been published..
Edit: guess the thread is ok, still cant use that spoiler button though.
Currently I am converting the first adventure to 4th edition. The players just climbed out of the tunnels below Parrot Cove. Which means we have the Guildhall approaching quickly. I would dig hearing about any 4th ed. conversions of the encounters within.
It must be said that I generously swap out encounters with creatures that I do not have stats or miniatures for. For example, the Raghodesa. I changed them to deathjump spiders. The manta-ray creatures that patrol the pools. I've been thinking of changing them to Sahuaghin and using the rules in the DMG to lower them by 1-3 levels. Bullywugs, has anyone attempted to convert them to 4th?
Also, the maps are rough. I'm finding 3.5 edition maps are built for smaller encounters. Gone are the days of the party versus 1 bad guy. That one bad guy must be replaced by, the bad guy, a few minions and supporters. But looking at the rooms in the guild hall there is just no space. So either the maps must be enlarged twice the size to scale (5ft sq = 10ft sq) or the encounters need be approached differently. I'm thinking of having the PCs be attacked from both sides in many of the encounters and keeping the size to set scale (ecspecially since I already printed all the maps out). So when the PCs meet Rowyn and Guttugger (anyone converted him yet by adding rogue levels to the guard drake?), if a fight ensues, rogues will come to her aid from behind the PCs. There is just no room to move around in them old maps.
Some of the are that's true. But ways to shorten combats have been discussed, like when the party has almost all of the baddies dead and the leader type is gone just say they kill it or it surrenders and move on, etc. But on a seperate point I have begun my slow and not-so-fine tuned conversion to 4e for when I do run it later on. On the bright side Manual of the PLanes gave us plenty of the criters we neeed later and from what I hear the Big D is in MM2, so that'll make this easier. Now having said that I post the following encounter/skill challenge/quest list for the entire first chapter and I wanna know what you guys think, whether we can cut some encounters down or what not? Also I cut the fish guys from the guildhall because they annoy me ><
- Minor Quest: Retrieve Ring/cash
- Enc 1: Sollar Vark and 7 thugs
- Enc 2: Rhadogessa
- Skill Challenge: Vandorboren Vault.
- Minor Quest: Track Vanthus
- Skill Challenge: Track Down Vanthus
- Enc 3: Parrot Island Zombies, 9 Zombies and 1 hecuva(Might make this some level appropriate zombies and minions, and then wave 2 is some minions and a zombie, with wave 3 being some minions and a Ghoul/Ghast/Wight)
- Enc 4: 5 small monstrous crabs (May remove it)
- Major Quest: Infiltrate the Lotus Dragons and Learn where Vanthus is
- Skill Challenge: Track the Lotus Dragons
- Enc 5: Thieves in Dead Dog Alley
- Enc 6: Tannery- Illusionist and pals (Yea I'm adding thieves that are "workers" to make this a good fight, alternately I could make a skill challenge to avoid combat and get him to let them in... thoughts?)
- Enc 7: Thieves in D2
- Enc 8: Cruncher the worg in D5
- Enc 9: Guestroom (I was thinking maybe combine this with enc 8 and do the thieves and cruncher)
- Enc 10: D9 the crucible- Thieves and a Croc
- Enc 11: D19, Rhadogessa
- Enc 12: D25 Training Hall
- Enc 13: D27-28 Rhadogessa and Bugbear Zombie
- Enc 14: Rowyn and Gut Tugger.
and to share my preliminary work so far here are the breakdowsn as I see them for #2,#3, and #4. As always thoughts are appreciated.
BG
- Minor Quest: Learn Vanthus Plans
- Skill Challenege: Locate Krakens Cove
- Enc1: Ssvage Monkeys
- Enc 2: K1- Savage Pirates
- Enc 3: K3+K4- Mess Hall Pirates and Wyvernsting (Elite Brutes and an Elite Lurker)
- Enc 4: K5- Ripclaw (Solo Savage Raptor)
- Enc 5: K6- Hazard, Mushrooms
- Enc 6: K7- Savage Slaves- Minions, Lots of Minions
- Enc 7: K9- Savage Dogs
- Enc 8: K11 - Savage Brissa Santos (Savage Pirate)
- Enc 9: K12 - Kigante’s killers - Savage Pirates
- Enc 10: K14- Harliss vs. Savage Pirates… EASY fight.
- Skill Challenge: Negotiate with Harliss (Also finishes Minor Quest)
- Major Quest: Save Vandorboren Manor!!!
- Skill Challenge: Navigating to town or tracking to town (optional)
- Enc 11: Angry Gnome
- Skill Challenge: Worm’s Revenge
- Enc 12: Kellani’s Killers- Diamondback (elite) and Some schmucks on Stilts
- Enc 13: V1- Bullywugs in the house
- Enc 14: V6+V12- Huntress Lorb-Lorb Tub (Elite) and Hunters
- Minor Quest: Rescue the Jade Ravens
- Enc 15: V20- Hunters
- Enc 16: V23- Chief Lorpth + Chunkus (rust monster? What should he be replaced with a guard Drake?)+ Schmuck Hunters
- Enc 17: V27- Drevoraz Kabran (NPC Fighter) + Bua Gorg (Elite Shaman) + Hunter schmucks (ALSO Skill Challenge: Kabran Switches sides!) if either is finished full xp for encounter (TOUGH encounter)
SWW
- Enc 1: Dinner with Lavinia
- Enc 2: The Father’s Illness
- Enc 3: Rowyn Strikes Back!
- Enc 4: Flotsam Ooze (Probably will get removed)
- Minor Quest: Explore Tamoachan!
- Enc 5: T1- Basilisks
- Enc 6: T2- Gibbering Mouthers? (Maybe just a Gel Cube)
- Enc 7: T4+T6- Will O’Wisp and His Gire Wall Hazards
- Enc 8: Crypt Traps - Hazards or Maybe just an actual Mummy?
- Enc 9: Lesser Varrangoins (or just one elite or solo one?)
- Enc 10: Brotherhood Blockade- Either A) Fight Lars “No Heck” and his Pirates (minions and regular human bandits) or B)Skill Challenge: Negotiate with the Pirates
- Enc 11: Aquatic Seven Headed Hydra (Solo)… May remove and replace with something else, Have heard solos suck and I feel there’s been too many already and too many to come
- More Side Quest Opportunities
- Skill Challenge: Navigate the First Storm
- Minor Quest: Escape Journey’s End
- Enc 12: Rage captain’s Quarters- Assassin Vines!
- Enc 13: Vine Horror Waves (3 Waves for a Triple Moderate encounter)
- Enc 14: Thunderer Waves: 2 Groups of 3 Vine Horrors
- Enc 15: Birthing Maw (Solo)
- Enc 16: Masher! This is two fold, Masher is an Elite and the party needs to complete a Skill Challenge: Get away from the reef as part of the encounter
HtBM
- Major Quest: Get to Farshore!
- Enc 1: T-Rex!
- Enc 2: Terror Birds!
- Enc 3:Hunting Birds
- Skill Challenge: Spider Queen
- Enc 4: Nest Mother- Elite Terror Bird and a few Regular ones
- Enc 5: DM2- Gargantuan Centipedes
- Enc 6: DM3- Mummies
- Enc 6: DM4- Spear Trap Hazards
- Enc 7: Dm6- Giant Monstrous Crabs
- Enc 8- Gargoyle Ambush
- Enc 9: Sabotaged Lift Trap
- Enc 10: Quotoctoa, Barbarian gargoyle and gargoyle buddies
- Enc 11: The Chosen of Olangru
- Enc 12: S2- Rockfall Trap
- Enc 13: S7- Mirror Trap
- Enc 14: S8- The Harem
- Enc 15: Mob of Fiendish Baboons (Swarm)
- Enc 16: S12- Fireball Trap
- Enc 17: S13- Spirit Naga
- Enc 18: S16- Orlangru and His Statue
I'm working on Tides, and I've realized I'm not sure how to approach it yet except in section or almost mini adventures.... But also the Victory point mechanic makes me wonder what to do there... Any thoughts on any of this are appreciated.
However, encounters with a single monster that is not a solo go down the drain pretty fast now. The monster gets squashed or the group does, if the monster is 4 or 5 levels above the party. In that case they simply can't hit him.
I agree here and at this point this is a VERY rough draft of the adventures as I am basically running through and breaking down every encounter as written before going back and making them work right and build them. Some encounters just make sense to me to already combine, such as the Huntress and the schmucks, others kind of make me scratch my head and decide what to do. I do know that I'm not a fan of solos in 4e, not at least in the every 4th fight kind of way that 3.x did. Solos should be very memorable encounters and should be reserved for VERY important fights. Dragons, and Dragon Turtles, Savage Raptors, Named Jerk Face brothers, Demon Lords and Bosses, etc. Everyone else is an elite or less in my opinion. It's a matter of finding that groove to build good encounters while keeping the spirit of the originals. Also with some homebrewed stuff I've discussed (such as making V show up earlier and normal and have a 1st real fight against him, so his later dramatic reveal actually has drama) I can afford to drop extra fights I don't like or rework a few things.
One point I'm interested in discussing is how do dispense the treasure using the new parcel system. Clearly the new D&D economic system has been built around it and using the old treasures would spell doom on the financial aspect of the adventure. I must say I dislike the new economy as a player, as I think it's too simplistic and artificial.
I agree and yet I don't. I can't make up my mind on treasure parcels. I like that there is guaranteed treasure now in a sense. However I wish there was a randomized way to assign said treasure and even pick it. Like a way to randomly determine what the 5th level item is, etc. Best of both worlds in my opinion. That way the party doesn't get shafted by poor dice rolling on gear, but there's still some randomness and mystery to it. I can't speak from a player perspective I have yet to play a sngle game on that side of the screen. I will however point out that my inspiration for alot of thsi comes from the excellent work of Mr. Scott Betts who has been converting Rise of the runelords on his website. He talks alot about what he is trying to accomplish and how he is handling parcels there. You should check it out if you are ok with spoilers (i.e. your not playing in a Rise game) it really is helpful for conversions at least to me, to see what other people are doing. You can check it out here Tales From the Rusty Dragon .
The wage characters receive from Lavinia could be counted as a parcel or two, for instance. The Parrot Island smuggler's cove is also a nice treasure dispenser, but what if the players don't find it? The new DM hints to the fact that players are supposed to find all the treasure or they'll end up unbalanced in the long run (or am I just reading too much between the lines there?). This is the first edition I can recall that has explicit considerations about the importance of treasure as being factored in the game balance at higher...
Yes if from what I have understood from the DMG and discussions her maoney to the party very much SHOULD come out of their treasure parcels, but I feel that gets messy. I would almost cut that outright and have her pay them per mission and offer them the run of her home or to set them up in a home and take care of living expenses instead. That way they get paid a treaures parcel for quests and still get to live nice. as for the parrot island bit, I would almost be tempted to have Pinkus's room BE the treaure room and just avoid all the hassle of hiding the treasure. You can easily reason that noone has taken the treaure because of the hecuva (or whatever undead he ends up being).
As to your level question I plan on making it all 30 levels which by my quick calculation means the party needs to gain on avereage of 2 1/2 levels per adventure. With the amount of encounters, skill challenges and quests this should be easy and easily end up with TOO many encounters in the end. This means good things for me because I get to remove unwanted fights like the Ixixtchils, Flotsam Ooze, and some of the jumk in the lightless Depths. :P
I feel like I forgot to actual answer your question on parcels in my long as heck post. What I actually intend to do as far as treasures is hash out the entire scheme of encounters and quests for the whole AP as I have done above, then decide how the level break up is going to happen (which adventure gets what levels, etc. Then after I have that distribute the parcels for the appropriate levels throughout their respective adventures. For instance if Adventure 1 covers levels 1-3, then I have 3 levels worth of parcels to distribute between payment from Lavinia, Parrot Cove, and the Lotus Dragon guildhall in general. If Adventure 2 is levels 4-6 then I take those 3 parcels and I distribute them throughout pay from Lavinia, Krakens Cove, anything gained from the festival encounters, and then the loot from the frogs. That means some baddies with magic items, but that is how it has always been so no big. After I nail down the actual levels the various adventures cover then I know how my parcels are split so I can then decide where to place the treasure itself. The one problem with this is if an adventure ends halfway through a level (as the xp model makes me think might happen) then splitting it between the two adventures is going to be a pain. I'll manage though.
Oh well a few points of note. I HATE the item wishlists, as a Dm I feel they make no sense and hurt the sense of immirsion. I love the question of What kind of magic sword is it??? One of my home ruled things I changed is more often than not I will add some extra gold to cover the basic exchange of magic items (so a level 3 item that no one wants can get traded for one someone does.) in the end yes the vendors get the good side of the deal but at the same time by economy reasoning the pcs got what they wanted. Sure its because I handed them that extra 200gp over their parcel, but in the end it works the same by the numbers. Its just hard to do for a pre written usuable for all adventure is all. Also I have the npcs who do craft and sell magic items haggle all the time and the barter system is alive in my games. As to the idea of giving magic items to badguys, they wouldn't mechanically have it just when they are looted so to speak. "Oh look a magic sword, that's why he hit so hard!"
As a side note I won't lie to you, Skill Challenges have been weak point in rules learning when it comes to 4e, they feel clunky to me and I haven't yet learnt how to handle them smoothly and in a fun way in game. They've been like skill checks with a reward for successes, and punishment for failure. That I liken to my 3.x way of playing though.... I'll get it eventually. :P
I'm replying to my own posts to much its giving me a complex :P
But seriously here is the encounter list I have for Tides of Dread. Again it is basically a list of every encounter that I could find in the adventure and each place I felt a quest or skill challenge made sense. There are places I would like to remove or add but tinkering with them is after I have them listed so I can actually decide where my levels and such go.
ToD
- Minor Quest: Save Farshore!
- Skill Challenge: Save Villagers!
- Enc 1: Church Goers- Pirates
- Enc 2: Slipknot Pete and his pirate Minions!
- Skill Challenge: History Aflame!
- Skill Challenge: Interrogating Lefty
- Major Quest: Save Farshore…Again!
- Special Skill Challenge: Victory Points! (I figure this is a “skill challenge” in a sense as in the end the amount they earn determines the fate of Farshore.)
- Skill Challenge: Vandorboren for Mayor!
- Enc 3: Fire Bats
- Enc 4: Zotzilla and Fire Bats (Avoidable battle, Can be handled as per the adventure, also no punishment with taking too much treasure and all that, its very anti-4e. Instead the bat summons the treasure for them and they get the parcel or if they kill it they find the hidden door with the one parcel and I'm going to leave it at that. :P)
- Enc 5: Elite T-rex (Temauhti-Tecuani) (maybe a Pair?)
- Enc 6: ToJ1- Giant Anacondas
- Enc 7: ToJ2- Jade Jaguar Pit trap hazard
- Skill Challenge/Enc 8: Tonatiub the Couatl
- Enc 9: Skephilipika the Kopru and his elasmosaures companions.
- Skill Challenge: Reclaiming the Wyvern!
- Enc 10: Fighting Pirates
- Enc 11: Yuan-ti sorcerer and friends
- Enc 12: More Pirates
- Enc 13: Vanthus and the Vrocks (Very tough encounter, probably a Solo and 2 Vrocks here)
Again any thoughts or new ideas are great.
More encounters laid out, Again alot of them are going to need reworked to add depth so that it isn't just 3 brutes here, 3 lurkers there. A huge part of the final product will require variations of the critters encountered for more dynamic fights. Also seems like a lot of skill challenges, but stuff that was simply a cr in 3.x is more of a skill challenge in 4e. As always ideas are welcome.
Lightless Depths
[*}Major Quest: Stop the Lords of Lords of Dread
[*}Skill Challenge: To Gallant Cove and to Find the Turtle
[*}Enc 1: Wrecked ships hazards (pit traps and falling rocks, etc. ) and Olman ghosts (Optional)
[*}Skill Challenge: Negotiating with Emraag the Glutton. Alternately A Tough Solo encounter if the PCs are just plain stupid.
[*}Enc 2: Wandering encounter on the way to Golismorga (optional)
[*}Enc 3: Wandering encounter on the way to Golismorga (optional)
[*}Skill Challenge: We be pirates! Or Enc 4: A2/A3- Elite Dimetrodon and Troglodyte Lepers
[*}Skill Challenge: Irgzid’s help
[*}Enc 5: B4/B5- Troglodyte lepers (Technically double encounter, Group from B5 arrives a few rounds after the battle begins)
[*}Enc 6: C- Black Pudding (a few elite oozes?)
[*}Enc 7: D- Roper or Skill Challenge: Mr. Roper!
[*}Skill Challenge: The Maze
[*}Enc 8: F2- Hook Horrors
[*}Skill Challenge: Information Bartering with the Fish or Enc 9: The Aboleth (optional)
[*}Minor Quest: Flooding Golgesmera
[*}Enc 10: Blackfang Rhadogessa
[*}Enc 11: Kopru Scouts and troglodyte minions
[*}Enc 12: The Devourer (and some buddies maybe)
[*}Enc 13: Shaboath pools
[*}Skill Challenge: Sloughed Skin
[*}Enc 14: Wandering Brain Collectors
[*}Enc 15: Wounded Purple Worm (Bloodied?)
[*}Enc 16: P- Elite Brain collector and Brain Collector’s
[*}Skill Challenge: Destroy the Tear and Flood the place!
[*}Enc 17: Q1- Kopru Behemoths
[*}Enc 18: Q3- Ulioth (add some minions)
[*}Enc 19: Q4- Bile wretch (solo?)
City of Broken Idols
[*}Enc ?: Wandering Encounters (if desired or needed after final XP is established)
[*}Major Quest: Stopping the Pearl Production
[*}Minor Quest: Finding Noltus
[*}Skill Challenge: Making allies of the Pelor Camp
[*}Enc 1: Noltus Returns! (Maurezhi demon, Julajimus, and skinwalkers)
[*}Skill Challenge: Mantru riddle
[*}Enc 2: Deinosuchus the elite croc (and sokme croc buddies?)
[*}Enc 3: 1- Wastrilith Demon(s)
[*}Enc 4: 2- Hazard (Symbol of Death?)
[*}Enc 5-8: 3- The group of skin walkers here starts the combat and then 2d4 rounds later the group from 4 appears plus a Acolyte, following that 1d4 rounds afterwards the Chief an acolyte and a few remaining skin walkers arrive. If the Chief is slain Skinwalkers flee at bloodied score.
[*}Enc 9: 12- Wraiths and Dread Wraiths
[*}Skill Challenge: Vault of the Sun and Moon
[*}Enc 10: 16- Trapped corridor (Spiked pits and Spear traps?)
[*}Enc 11: 19- Flesh Jellies (Elite oozes?)
[*}Enc 12: 23- Boulder trap
[*}Enc 13: 24- Teifling Pirate and Skinwalkers
[*}Enc 14: 29- Taboo Temple Koprus
[*}Enc 15: 30- Hezrous
[*}Enc 16: 33- Clay Golems
[*}Enc 17: 37 - Ochre Jellies
[*}Enc 18: 40- Taboo Temple Kopru and a Collapsing Path Hazard
[*}Enc 19: 43- Taboo Temple Kopru
[*}Enc 20: 49- Khala the Two-Headed (Elite Demon?) and Kala’s Pets (Skulvan demons)
Lots still left to do :P
There is indeed an outline DMs booklet type of thing, however it basically just a list of each adventure and what the general list of what is going on in it. The reason I'm doing these lists of what encounters appear in each adventure (plus what I feel are relevant skill challenges and quests) is so that I can figure out my encounter stretch. It has been brought up that 300 encounters (of their appropriate level) is level 1-30 in 4e. That doesn't count quest or skill challenges (or you could say 300 level appropriate items if all 3 are equal) which I feel we are going to surpass as written. This is good news in the sense that once it is all laid out I can then feel free to determine where I want to level ups to take plae in a sense, and I can decide where to add or remove encounters. A good example is as has been discussed elsewhere I feel a fight with human Vanthus must be done, but in a way that he escapes. It needs to be either at Parrot island in there is no honor (maybe at Brissa's place and then the two escape while the pcs tangle with thugs so that the whole trapped thing is a pain even more), or around sea wyvern's wake. I think it needs to be there to cement how much the pcs hate him, and also make them familiar. In the same vein I would prefer to cut from the same adventure the monstrous crabs in parrot island because they feel unneeded to me and just a chunk of extra XP. I feel that way about alot of extra monsters and especially lower level traps (like the cr 6 & 10s in an adventure for level 14s). Also in the 4e way of thinking I'd love to remove any traps that are just a trap in a room. But I don't feel this is doable until I have the big picture ready so as to know how much room I need to add or remove to make it work for me. In the end it's all about removing the waste of times and getting to the dynamic arse-whooping good times and an excellent story. Hopefully I'll have serpents of Scuttlecove up soon and maybe even Into the Maw.
After reading (skimming is a better word, actually) through Here there be monsters I'm feeling inclined to giving a LOST touch to it. I'll elaborate in the spoiler tag.
** spoiler omitted **
What do you think about that?
I like it, I think adding more horror here is always good, in fact there are some Olangru creepiness threads that just go over the meny horrid things one can inflict on their parties to up the horror factor.
And Here is my initial take on Serpents of Scuttlecove. I won't lie just looking at the encounters it looks intimidating as an adventure (work wise). But by the time this is over it should be ok, plus the added benefit of being able to trim some of the fat and combine encounters will be heavenly. Anyway here ya go.
Serpents of Scuttlecove
- Skill Challenge: Everyone Calm Down!
- Skill Challenge: Asking around without Notice
- Enc 1: Minting House Murderers (Optional)
- Enc 2:The Gloves Come Off (Optional)
- Minor Quest: The Jade Ravens’ Fate
- Enc 3: The Ambush! (at Red Foam Whaling)
- Skill Challenge: Where is Harliss?
- Minor Quest: Save Harliss!
- Skill Challenge: Porphyry House
- Enc 4: B2 - Sisters of Lamentation (Elite Harpies)
- Enc 5: B7- The little Ghoule (Maybe be a few of them?)
- Skill Challenge: Restoring Harliss
- Major Quest: To the Abyss and Beyond!
- Enc 6: The Minting House
- Enc 7: D2- Death Slaad
- Enc 8: D4- Crimson Recruiters (Bar-Lgura)
- Enc 9: D6- Crimson Thugs
- Enc 10: D8- Crimson Thugs
- Enc 11: D9- Captain Longshanks Le’Shiv and crew
- Enc 12: D10- Seventh Coil Assassins and Slavers
- Enc 13: D11- Eye of the Deep
- Enc 14: E1/E2- Symbol of Insanity trap and Retriever Demons
- Skill Challenge: What’s Captain Ratline Know?
- Enc 15: F1- Crimson Fleet Pirates
- Enc 16: F3/F4- Crimson Pirates (Broken into an artillery, lurker, and brute variety?)
- Enc 17: G4- 4 Crimson Captains (Maybe have each have their own class?)
- Skill Challenge: Wyther’s Shrine
- Enc 18: G7- Captain and Demon
- Enc 19: H3- Cold Captain Wyther (Solo? Or Elite with lots of minions and pirates?)
- Enc 20: H4- Yugoloth Demons
- Enc 21: I2- Sisters of Lementation (Elite Harpies)
- Enc 22: I5- The Seventh (Yuan-Ti Anethema)
As always any thoughts and comments that you have are appreciated. 4 more to layout and then the fun stuff begins. I can try and press my levels and treasure parcels in and trim the encounters that I can get away with and clean up the Ap for my tastes (well as far as 4e goes, get rid of encounters that I feel are a waste such as alot of the randome super advanced fiendish croc or snake or whatever fights). Hopefully this goes well.
I started STAP two years ago, but paused the campaign before 4E came out--right after Vanthus attacks farshore. The players all loved the campaign and their characters but I had to take a break. So I told the players that two years will pass, and I asked them what they wanted their characters to accomplish over those two years. They then all rolled a d20 to determine their success. With Vanthus defeated and no immediate threats in evidence, most ended up back in Sasserine.
Now we're starting STAP up again. I explained away the massive edition changes (reworking of magic, new gods, new cosmology, diagonal of square = side of square when measured) as a worldwide cataclysm, complete with the stars shifting, magic items exploding or ceasing to function, most mages and clerics driven mad, all gnomes disappearing in a Rapture, etc. etc. In other words the edition change was In Game.
So, now worldwide civilization is destroyed. There are no more huge nations, because without magic items and high level NPCs (not to mention, no more instant transport & communication, or druidic magic bolstering crop yields) they've all been overrun by monsters. It's "Points of Light" from here on out: scattered city-states and other isolated holdouts of civilization. The Scarlet Brotherhood, with its reliance on unarmed combat, slave labor, and forts, was ideally suited to weather such changes--and is one of the few surviving political entities. The Crimson Fleet is another.
The party was in Sasserine at the time of the Change, and witnessed its destruction by fire, looting, and monster attack. The campaign picked up with them cutting their way through the throngs of panicking civilians and escaping on the Sea Wyvern, and then assembling the other surviving boats and leading them towards Farshore. It's a real "Battlestar Galactica meets Dies the Fire" kind of vibe, and the players love it. Especially because they get to re-visit all the points of interest from their initial journey down (though we're covering all that in one session, via an extended skill challenge).
Once back in Farshore, they'll discover that Vanthus's journal entry had washed ashore while they were gone. If they had waited around and been there when it was discovered, they might have realized that more--LOTS more--Shadow Pearls were being produced. They might have been able to prevent the cataclysm. Oops!
So, instead of trying to prevent the Tide, the players now have to try to take down Demogorgon before he fully reaps the benefit of his plan. There's also even more complications, but just in case my players ever see this, I'll stop this already-too-long post here. :)
Also, thank you to Stewart Perkins for breaking down the adventures into 4E terms. Man, if you ever take the plunge and stat out individual encounters, you'll be my hero forever.
Also, thank you to Stewart Perkins for breaking down the adventures into 4E terms. Man, if you ever take the plunge and stat out individual encounters, you'll be my hero forever.
Had typed up a decent sized response that talked about what I planned to cut/include andall that but sadly it rolled a nat 1 on it's Grapple Check and was felled by the indiginous Post Monster's Swallow Whole ability. Anyway the jist was, I plan on including an earlier combat/encounter with Vanthus pre farshore for drama reaons, and I had 2 of the last 3 done and will probably do the last tonight aswell so I can start on actually doing the real work section (Level placement to determine actual encounter budgets, and treasure parcels etc. Also decide where to Place said parcels amongst their respective adventures and all that Jazz). Seeing as how I have a 3 day weekend ahead of me I may even start work on actual statting of There is no Honor this weekend, possibly with a live playtest! (yea right, but hey we all need goals :P)
The rest of Savage tide laid out:
Into the Maw
- Major Quest: Rescue Lavinia!
- Skill Challenge: Find the Maw
- Skill Challenge: Navigating the Maw’s Teeth
- Enc 1: An Unlikely Guide- Blood fiends
- Skill Challenge: The Penance (Endurance checks or Lose a healing surge)
- Enc 2: 2- Greater Lemurian Golem and Vrocks
- Enc 3: 3- Vrocks
- Enc 4: 4- S’Shara (solo?)
- Enc 5: 7- Hezrous
- Enc 6: 8- Babuas
- Skill Challenge: Allies of the Warden or Enc 7: 9- Kululblax (Solo Glabrezu)
- Skill Challenge: Allied with the mercenaries or Enc 8: 11- Nycoloth Mercenaries
- Enc 9: 13- Nabassus
- Enc 10: 14- Lazruvakus (Magma Drake baddie)
- Enc 11: 16- Filth Demons
- Enc 12: 18- Kelubar Demodands
- Skill Challenge: Allies of Filth or Enc 13: 19/20/21- Belshamoth, Filth Demons, and Ragdlath (nelfeshnee)
- Enc 13: 22- Babau Rogue(s?)
- Enc 14: 23- Hezrous
- Skill Challenge: The Flase Gnome (Secret) and/or Enc 15: 24/25- Lynnara (succubus) and Lillianth (Marilith), Ice devil, and Crazed Trumpet Archon
- Enc 15b: 25- Lillianth, Ice Devil, and Crazed Trumpet Archon
- Enc 16: 26- Shadows of Socothbenoth
- Enc 17: 27- Vanthus the Deathknight, and shadows of Socothbenoth
- Skill Challenge: Negotiating with the Archons
- Enc 18: 30- The Shrieking Pillar Trap
- Enc 19: 31- Saureya (Solo Astral Deva?)
- Enc 20: 32- Marilith Demons?
- Skill Challenge: Allied with the Lich or Enc 21: Orgosh (Bullywug Lich), and a crap ton of undead minions and not minions
- Minor Quest: Slay Vanthus again!
Wells of Darkness
- Major Quest: Finding and Freeing Shami-Amourae
- Enc 1: A Trip to the market- Body Stealing Demon (Change or replace I think)
- Skill Challenge: Meeting Red Shroud or Enc 2: Red Shroud and co. (Very Tough)
- Enc 3: The well of Argolchier- Abyssal Ghouls and Chasmes
- Enc 4: Well of Debased Eros- Gorallons (Super huge Girallons)
- Enc 5: Warden of the Well (Elite or Solo Retriever?)
- Enc 6: Overlook approach - Varongoin Berserkers
- Enc 7: Overlook Tower- Nightwings
- Enc 8: Well of Ahazu- 3 Varongoin Liches, and 3 Abyssal Ant Swarm
- Skill Challenge: Negotiating with Ahazu
- Enc 9: Shami-Amourae and the Chokesnake
- Enc10: Stygian Deluge- River Styx Trap, Barl-gura’s and Retrievers
Enemies of My Enemies
- Skill Challenge: Allies of Charon or Enc 1: Charon! (Best bypassed :P)
- Enc 2: Iggwillv’s Landing- Stygian Linnorms
- Enc 3: The Drawing Room Ambush- Arcanoloths
- Skill Challenge: Securing a Meeting with the Mistress
- Minor Quest: Allied with Orcus
- Minor Quest: Allied with The Court of Stars
- Minor Quest: Allied with Malcanthet
- Minor Quest: Allied with Obox-ob?
- Minor Quest: Allied with Bagromar
- Enc 4: Ever lost - Balors and Bodaks (if stupid pcs)
- Skill Challenge: Orcus as an ally (leads to Enc 5)
- Enc 5: Death Giant or death Giants (easy or hard version)
- Skill Challenge: Proving one’s worth
- Enc 6: Redfang (Solo Linnorm Dragon?)
- Skill Challenge: Gaining an audience with Malcanthet or Enc 7: Mariliths and Glabrezu
- Skill Challenge: Navigating the Palace of Flesh
- Enc 8: Vampire Priests!
- Skill Challenge: Crimson comes home
- Skill Challenge: freeing the Aspect
- Enc 9: Retaliation - Major Enderan (Unique solo demon) and Stone Giant Warrior zombies on Bodak Tyrannosaurus’s
- Enc 10: Bagromar’s camp- Dingoslag -Balor Demon
- Skill Challenge: Meeting Bagromar
Prince of Demons
- Skill Challenge: Setting up the War Council
- Major Quest: Destroy the Prince of Demons
- Enc 1: Storming the Beach - Mariliths, Babaus, Nelfashnee, and Hezrous, plus Blast Disks Hazards. This should be a large scale battle with npcs and such…. I would play it up with background stuff going on and focus the pcs on a group of their own… followed by:
- Enc 2: More of the same as Enc 1.
- Minor Quest: Fix Lemoriax Portal Point!
- Enc 3: Death of the V Asphyrixian- Prendergast (Solo baddie? Or Elite with minions?)
- Enc 4: Master of Assassins- Ulu-Thurg (Solo Barl-gura) and Assassin demon minions
- Minor Quest: Disrupt the Horde!
- Enc 5: The Demos Horde- Gromsfed the drowned and demons
- Skill Challenge: Disrupt the Zone on Lemoriax or Enc 6: The Siege of Lemoriax
- Enc 7: The Battle of Wat Dagon- Chasmes, Ghast Archers, Nabassu Mercenaries, and Captain Urbala (Templated Hezrou)
- Enc 8: 2- General Gorvash (Glabrezu solo?)
- Enc 9: 4- Breath of Dagon Trap
- Enc 10: 5/6- Ghast Archers
- Enc 11: 8- Saint kargoth the Betrayer (Deathknight Solo)
- Enc 12: 10- Nulanga the sorcerer Thrall of Demogorgon
- Enc 13: 11- Ancient Worm
- Enc 14: 13- Nulanga as Vanthus and a Giant Fiendish Oyster
- Enc 15: The Prince of Demons himself!!!
After doing the math I am at
- Total Encounters = 209
- Total Skill Challenges = 57
- Total Minor Quests = 18
- Total Major Quests = 10
Which totals to like 279ish total encounters... Which by record of 300 to get to 30 is 22 off (I say 22 because the pcs need to be 30 when they fight the Big D at the end, at least I want them to be) so I need to pad in 22 encounters/skill challenges/quests and at the same time remove encounters.... May be difficult unless I use the early adventures to pad in these side quests and mini adventures between chapters or even write in "random" encounters and make sure they "randomly" happen.... Thoughts?
Ah yes, the dreaded Post Gobbler. After too many tears caused by encounters with that beast, I've gotten into the habit of hitting Ctrl-A Ctrl-C before clicking the "post" button. Just in case. :)
My thoughts on the 22 Encounter deficit is to just forget about them. Your players certainly won't miss them, and besides, on their own they'll probably stir up enough off-the-book trouble to more than make up the difference.
So my initial planning has the tiers broken up as follows:
- Heroic - There is no Honor - Here there be Monsters
- Paragon - Tides of Dread - Serpents of Scuttttlecove
- Epic - Into the Maw - Prince of Demons
4 adventures per tier feels right, and just looking at the scope of the adventures the break makes sense to me. However the problem is the following. By my math you need 100 heroic encounters, 100 paragon, and 100 epic including skill challenges and quests, but our breaks are 83 heroic, 106 Paragon, and 90 Epic tier encounters. I have contemplating having the beggining chunk of Tides be the actual end of the heroic tier since its the battle against the pirates and skill challenges to save farshore and if padded right could be the capstoneof heroic play and the pcs move on into the hard stuff then... I'll have to think on it but if I did that it would move around 6 encounters into heroic making the totals a little better rouphly being 89, 100, 90. Then after fixing encounters and adding my early Vanthus stuff can easily bring my heroic up to 100, and adding some cool stuff into the epic shouldn't be that hard. Also this doen't take into consideration harder than average fights that are generally worth extra xp and could push the needed encounters down as a whole and open up more room for cuts and changes.
I have to say if anything this is a good excercise in planning a 4e campaign from beggining to epic. :P
Ah yes, the dreaded Post Gobbler. After too many tears caused by encounters with that beast, I've gotten into the habit of hitting Ctrl-A Ctrl-C before clicking the "post" button. Just in case. :)
My thoughts on the 22 Encounter deficit is to just forget about them. Your players certainly won't miss them, and besides, on their own they'll probably stir up enough off-the-book trouble to more than make up the difference.
I understand what you mean. I'm sure my players won't even notice but they will know they aren't level 30 the day Big D comes knocking or rather when they go knocking, and that I feel is needed. Knowing my players they will want a knock down drag out with him at their strogest possible just to have done it and earned it. I'm thinking once I actually decide where my levels go that a few fights at the harder mode will equal out to make up the missing XP and fix the issue, maybe even to the point that I can still cut wasted encounters.
I am in the planning stages of converting STAP to 4E also. However I am only really planning on running the middle section, with an option to continue to the end if we can keep the group going (I expect it to take at least one year to run the middle, or two years minimum to run the middle and end). The focus will, primarily, be on getting to the Isle of Dread then adventuring thereon.
Currently, I have 6th level PC's, which I plan to integrate / move to to the STAP around 7th level. The initial STAP adventure will simply be the beginning of Bullywugs Gambit, namely Krakens Cove. Once the Cove is dealt with, there will be no fight at the manor, Harliss doesn't send her first mate there in my plan. Instead, I'm planning to merge in Last Breath of Ashenport, as a place near Krakens Cove that the PC's go to and from via sea (I'm running it in Eberron, with the PC's in Stormreach (Xen'drik) instead of Sasserine; Ashenport and Krakens Cove are on a small island to the north). The PC's will be introduced to Ashenport initially, looking for the Jade Ravens (who are kidnapped by the cultists from Ashenport) then before the Ashenport adventure really begins, the PC's have to race to Krakens Cove to deal with the Savage Tide (pearl) eruption. Once the Cove is cleared, and Harliss rescued (or whatever; I can see my players might want to stay and find the ships that are due to arrive to take the pearls, which the adventure doesn't cater for), the PC's will eventually go back to Ashenport, which is when the storm hits and the Ashenport adventure itself can kick in. The Jade Ravens will be found once the cultists are dealt with, at which point the PC's can chose to leave the town (except for the storm), or actually put an end to the creatures of Dagon.
Anyway, from there, I envisage the STAP running pretty much as written, i.e. SWW as 9-10th level, HtBM 11-12th, etc. From reading Manual of the Planes, I plan on the Isle warping in and out of the Feywild over the years... Until recently, it was on the material plane as 'just another island', albeit one far from any shores. Now, it's warped back to the Feywild, and passage to and from is a bit random (hence the shipwreck - the PC's ship literally warps from the material plane to the Isle's demi-plane and lands on top of the reefs in the middle of a storm). I've only really mapped out a very rough sketch of these adventures, like allocating levels, rather than the actual number of encounters per adventure - I see that as detail to be worked out later.
What I have done in more detail is the first adventures, namely the first part of Bullywug Gambit (Krakens Cove). The things I've found necessary to do are:
- convert the savage disease
- convert the savage creature template
- convert the encounters
For the disease, I kept it simple - initial effect is half hp from your healing surges, then worse is can't spend a healing surge, worst is you fall in a coma and awaken as a Savage Creature (and hungry, of course). The level of the disease will be set by the creature you got it from, with a Pearl being say level 20.
For the savage template, after much deliberation I decided it should be like the ones in the DMG, i.e. upgrades the creature to Elite (if it's already elite, it doesn't make a solo). It doubles hp (unless you were already elite), +2 to Fort and AC, changes alignment to CE, and gives a couple of new powers - from memory, a retaliatory strike (bite attack, as immediate reaction when hit, which does d6 base dmg and also infects with savage fever disease), and death-throes (burst 3, immediate reaction to reaching 0 hp or less; attacks Ref and base d6 acid damage). That keeps the creature reasonably simple, as per 4E conventions, but keeps all the important flavour of the original 3.5 critters. It also makes them really tough, as they are all now Elite, which I like because it helps drive home just how much of a threat the savage tide really is.
In converting encounters, I've taken a similar approach to that outlined by Stewart Perkins, except I plan to be more aggressive in my attempts to group a number of 3.5 encounters into a single 4E encounter. The caves are relatively simple to do this with, I just find two or three adjacent rooms / corridors, and a fight in one triggers the monsters in the other one(s) too. The adventure does a bit of this already, I just plan to 'make up the numbers per encounter' a bit more, without going overboard, i.e. aim for the standard kinds of XP ranges as per the DMG (mostly level 7-8 encounters, with a couple of harder ones and an easier one). For monsters, I try to find something published in 4E that feels about right in terms of how the monster acts in 3.5. For example, I used something like basic 6th level humans (with 1d6 'sneak attack') for the pirates, and added my savage template. For the "monkeys" (apes in my game), I actually down-graded a Grillon (from a minis stat-card) and added my template - this encounter will be triggered in the wilderness if the PC's fail a skill challenge to get to the cove, or if they pass that challenge, I'll replace the initial pirates fight with the apes (I don't want to lose the apes, as there's loads of pirates and not much else to fight). For the other creatures in the Cove, I actually found in 3.5 they lack a lot of variety, so I actually still used the humans as a base, and just modified a key power to customise each, and also added 3 levels to make them tougher compared to a base pirate. For the 'trap' in the caves, I changed it to a Blue Slime, advancing the one published in H1, as a single trap felt pretty lame (there are no other solos in my conversion, and this one is actually pretty easy as I only made it around level 6 vs 7th level PC's). Harliss is something like a 16th level elite I found in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, although I don't expect the PC's to fight her (if they do, they will find her almost impossible to hit, and capable of doing a lot of hurt, which is exactly as it should be).
Keep in mind I'm targeting the Cove for five 7th level PC's, reaching 8th level by the end. Ashenport is written for five 8th level PC's, reaching 9th level near the end. After Ashenport, they return to Stormreach for a bit, before jumping on the Sea Wyvern, headed for the Isle of Dread (Sasserine never actually features in my campaign).
So that's my plan and progress so far - I tend to work at three levels of planning -
- The conceptual campaign level where I just briefly map out how the campaign starts, who the key NPC's are in relation to the PC's, then where the campaign goes and what adventures need to cover what levels. I've mostly done this part now, which took a fair few hours as I had to get my head around the whole campaign, at least at a very high level.
- The high level adventure plan, where I work out, for the next adventure only, what encounters there are, how much XP and treasure each gives, and what monsters and traps each encounter has. This is also where I create a set of 'encounter pages' in Word, which is mostly just the 4E combat stats for all the monsters (or skill challenge outline), 1-2 pages per encounter, like the modern adventures, with any other combat notes also there. I might keep some small scratch-notes on things to change in the adventure also, but I keep that bit simple for now as I'm still only skimming the adventure here. I've done this part for the next couple of adventures only, and it only took a few hours per adventure.
- The detailed adventure plan, where I photocopy the adventure, highlight important bits, re-write or delete some bits, and generally read it all quite thoroughly so I can anticipate any glitches and iron out any potential gotchas or gaps before I actually run it. I've started this for the Cove, as I expect to be running it in two weeks time, but have most of that ahead of me. Again, each adventure only takes a few hours to fully prepare, and this can be done in sections i.e. I only do the bits I expect to run during the next session, so about an hour of final prep per session.
So far I'm very happy with the campaign outline, with lots of travel and different locales it will work well with the style of Eberron and 4E, and while my players don't know they are going to the Isle of Dread the outline of adventure from place to place appeals to them. As for the adventures themselves, as I say I've only really converted the Kraken's Cove so far, and I'm happy with what I've done, but do feel it runs the risk of containing too many fights that will be quite similar (i.e. loads of savage pirates). As I do my final planning, I'll have another think on that, and trim it if required to ensure it doesn't become a drag for us.
I'll keep an eye on this thread and keep updated on how it all goes.
I'm working on the premise that important NPC's should be Elite, while solos should be reserved for the very occasional times when you can actually throw something interesting at them (i.e. it's a worthwhile solo creature) and also where it doesn't make sense to throw two or more of the same creature type at them (e.g. T-Rex's probably hunt alone, not in pairs). I ran an Elite (2 levels above the PC's) vs my party once, not really on purpose but because they short-cut one part of the plot and got to an important foe by himself earlier than expected, and even he went down very fast, so that's not a great idea either.
STAP seems good for 4E in that there are a lot of NPC's as foes, especially in the early adventures, so a combo of minions and standard foes is good for most encounters, with the occasional Elite for an important named NPC. I've found some useful NPC types in the Forgotten Realms book, as well as other sources, for inspiration on pirate-types that are slightly more interesting than just some kind of basic human.
That said, I'm skipping the first adventure, so don't have any great suggestions there, apart from yeah, don't go too overboard on building overly challenging fights until you get some more experience in how your group's PC's work, what they enjoy, etc. Keep an eye on the spread of PC's AC, vs the monsters + to hit and damage - if the monsters hit too hard too often, or find it too hard to hit at all, it gets too hard or too boring for the players. And don't go overboard on minions, like solos I've found they work best when used sparingly rather than appearing in most fights. And do combine multiple encounters into one big fight, with monsters in adjoining rooms or whatever entering on round 2 etc - this helps make the fights more challenging, more dynamic, and also helps solve some of the space issues. Plus I only noticed last night that the caves map in the second adventure actually has a scale of one square = 10 feet, so there's no space issues there...
Been a while but I'm revisiting the conversion with the release of MM2 and its sheer number of STAP critters (bullywugs, rust monster, Big D) Since I have my list of encounters and the like I think at this point I'm going to try converting as the pcs go and see how I can make that work (tailor it to the pcs so to speak, by doing what they are coming up to as opposed to try and do it all at once). At least at this point. I'll keep you informed if I ever get this off the ground (work and conflicted schedules make gaming hard nowadays, especially since 4 of my 5 players consist of 2 seperate couples each with kids, and my other player is my wife who also has a job so we don't have specificly set schedules week from week :P) Wish me luck!
How would you go about levels. Should I expand some of the maps. Big D is 34 so I would want my players to be around 30 by the end. So each adventure Should get players two and half levels. So make the dungeon areas bigger for more xp would seem to make sense, would that work?
should of read more LOL
That is only issue. I am starting it next week and worry about XP break down. Trying to solve what I should use to plump up the adventure. Cause I do not want to fall behind on xp for my plays or D is going to eat them up alive.
how would you run vanderboren vault in there is no honer
how would you run vanderboren vault in there is no honer
Well lets see, first of all I have it at about 2 and 1/2 per adventure to make it work as a base line. However I have decided that adding in other things may be needed instead, thus allowing me to remove the encounters I dislike or seem less than steller. My compromise as for now is a few additions. I'm start it with a mini quest. Its going to start with the pcs reading a modified letter from Lavinia, which details her parents passing and asks them to come meet her. But the change is that it will flashback to the party a few months prior when they meet the late Vandorborens and work for them, thus giving them an attachment to the plot. Then when they first meet Lavinia they'll briefly meet Vanthus who is basically being thrown out by the jade ravens. Later when they are searching for him (post vault) they will be sent to the work farm outside the city and find Vanthus has set up a camp there with some buddies. The party will have a few encounters and either Vanthus gets brought in or escapes (more than likely he surrenders but bails asap). then the play proceeds as normal. So all in all I can easily squeeze an extra level or so. I imagine my pcs will grant me all kinds of plot hooks to fill the gaps aswell (they always do).
Now as to the skill challenge in the vault, I'm thinking it might use history (to figure out the riddle that is the puzzle basis), insight, arcana (types of creatures and features), thievery (come on its a lock!). Thats it so far, so maybe a moderate skill challenge. More to come as I think of it.
Those are some really good ideas. I met umm pirate some of them
I've almost got the PC's to the Isle of Dread now. The biggest thing is not to plan too far ahead - by all means have a very rough, high-level plan (e.g. mine is to get the PC's to the Isle at 11th level, then into the Abyss at 21st), but don't do the actual conversions until you really need to, e.g. a few weeks ahead for each adventure is best. Otherwise you'll do a lot of work that you end up re-doing when you get closer...
As far as converting individual adventures goes, I've taken each adventure and decided which pieces are keepers, and which need to be deleted or changed substantially, based on what's going to be challenging and interesting under 4e.
For example, the trip to the Isle of Dread, and the overland trip to Farshore, looks kind of dull under 4e rules (even under 3.5, really), as each day everything re-charges so one fight a day/week/month is just not going to be challenging and e.g. a Hydra is a really boring solo. So I left in Tamoachan, and added a lot of extra stuff around it e.g. a warforged druid and his six undead (skeletal) dire wolves attacked the PC's on their way there, then outside I added two gargoyles and three galub-dhur to the Basilisk encounter (I should have used at least two Basilisks, as he died in round 2, with no-one even failing a first save). Inside, I also beefed up some encounters e.g. I added some wights and a poltergeist to the fire-trap and willow-the-wisp, then the fire-bat creature was a home-made elite with a mummy-gas trap and an actual mummy all in the one encounter. The gibbering mouther I made a pair, and also added a level 10 gelatinous cube and black pudding (and the wisp is going to join in from behind the PC's).
The aim was to have 4-5 tough encounters in one day - the PC's are about to do the final encounter tonight, and their feedback at the end of the last session was they really enjoyed having a series of encounters to work through where they couldn't just unload all their daily's in one fight (like they did on an earlier encounter where their ship was hit by an ooze and numerous sahuaghan).
The rest of the wilderness travel will be a combination of quick narrative ("you get from here to here in X days; nothing much of interest happens"), and a couple of skill challenges for bits that I hope will be interesting and ultimately decide how the PC's and NPC's arrive on the Isle and in what condition. The first skill challenge is to find the fey crossing that leads to the Isle - a bit of a warm-up, with failure just meaning they take longer and their supplies start to run dangerously low. Then, there's a skill-challenge to help the ship during the worst storm, where I'll also thrown in two Mashers attacking so the PC's can choose to fight or help the skill-challenge. The end result is the PC's and NPC's survive the storm and arrive on the isle, or the PC's are near-drowned and various NPC's die. Pretty much straight after that, the T-Rex arrives - I've added a group of Terror-birds to that fight, to avoid it being a boring solo encounter - the setup is that the T-Rex is chasing a terror-bird, while other birds lie in wait to ambush - the PC's happen to be in their midst, and of course they look the weakest and tastiest to birds and lizard... After that, it's another two skill challenges for wilderness travel, the first one to navigate without getting lost, attacked etc, i.e. I've replaced any actual fights with gargoyles to be abstracted away as part of the skill challenge, and also ditched the little dungeon en-route (which just didn't look very interesting). Once Olaguru starts hounding the group, it's a new skill challenge, with NPC's being picked off (on failure) until Olaguru etc attack and try to kidnap Urol, which is a standard fight (but Olaguru is a re-skinned demon from MM2 with great kidnap powers, not a Barlgura). Then the PC's can enter the dungeon, which I've also re-worked considerably, taking a few ideas from the 3.5 one but actually using the bulk of a 4.0 adventure from Dungeon magazine which features mad cultists and slaadi - the slaad have been replaced with Olaguru and his Barlgura etc, and the cultists are replaced with gnolls, but basically it's 95% the mechanics of the 4.0 adventure, re-skinned to look like the 3.5 adventure.
Anyway, the examples I use above are my most recent, and hopefully show the kinds of things I've found really work well under 4e - don't be afraid to ditch pieces of the adventure that you think won't be very interesting, then add extra creatures and/or combine near-by encounters to create decent-sized fight for 4e rules - make sure there's some interesting terrain and plenty of space for everyone to move around, and make sure there's at least a couple of different monster roles too. If you find a really interesting 4.0 adventure, don't be afraid to re-skin it to add some more 4.0 elements at less work on your part - I'm always keeping an eye on 4e adventures to see if anything will fit.
But of course the reason I'm running STAP is because I loved the Age of Worms adventure path so much, but really want to DM under 4.0, and no published campaign under 4.0 has grabbed my interest as a DM - so I get the great plot-lines and general campaign outline from STAP, far better than I cold ever come up with, as well as (mostly) well designed encounters etc, but in converting them to 4e I also can spend some time improving things even more - I can spend a bit of time being creative myself, but not so much that it becomes a burden.