Looks like we're cooking then. Glad you're all happy bunnies.
Rambling Scribe - could your confirm in-ness or out-ness? I'd love to have you playing if you'd still like to, but it's your call.
I'll aim to get an introductory post up later today and you can chat a little about your various reasons for being there and plan some tactics.
And a little more background
The local tavern where you've had your final briefing with Hroaldr is called the Fruitful Bloom. It's got some standard rooms to rent and it's clean. They pride themselves on their homebrewed ale and also make a particularly lethal cider which tastes extremely innocent until you reach the bottom of the glass when it jumps up and hits you hard.
As far as the rolls go, I'm happy to make them for you if you prefer it. I would be grateful if you'd post up a set of preferred actions though, so I don't end up making Anarak do something he'd never contemplate.
I posted a few default actions in my profile. They're very basic. I didn't want to go overboard on conditions, etc. because I don't want to turn my character into an algorithm. I don't think I'll miss my action very often anyway, so it shouldn't matter. I also posted 10 initiative rolls, but please go ahead and make any other rolls or checks on my behalf if I'm holding up the action. If you can't trust your DM, who can you trust? :)
That's great. Thank you.
Regard the pre-rolls/suggested actions as a precaution. We all get bad rl days when stuff happens to break the routine. It's a system I've seen used successfully in other games I'm in, so I'm just shamelessly lifting it. I'm not anticipating having to use them much, but better to ask now than later.
Looking forward to this very much.
You each have 30gp as a downpayment from Hroaldr.
If you want to spend any of it, you may do so before boarding the boat. Please bear in mind that although you can buy basic supplies in Riggarth, you can't get very exotic stuff. Please post purchases so I can confirm that what you are trying to buy is available.
I'm pretty much thinking food supplies, but if you have other ideas, go for it. If it's there to buy and within budget, you (probably) can.
If Vel needs any ritual components, she needs to talk to Hroaldr. He will be able to help.
One other thing. This is a one-shot and very self-contained. Even within that constraint there are styles of play and preferences. What are yours?
All I'm getting at really is that if you're all keen on getting in, killing the bad guys and getting out, that's fine and I'll gear this to moving along.
This isn't a scenario with a huge amount of potential for NPC interaction, but there is some. If that's your preference, I can try and develop that a bit more.
Pretty much, your wish is my command. I will obviously try and include as many elements of 4E as I can, because I want to know how it all works as much as you, but it would help to have some idea of your preferences and expectations.
I shall now take a deep breath, stop posting, and wait for the time zones to catch up :D
I like the idea you proposed for that hook, I can definately see that happening.
I'll need to do my own prerolls pretty soon, likely a little later today.
You each have 30gp as a downpayment from Hroaldr.
If you want to spend any of it, you may do so before boarding the boat. Please bear in mind that although you can buy basic supplies in Riggarth, you can't get very exotic stuff. Please post purchases so I can confirm that what you are trying to buy is available.
I'm pretty much thinking food supplies, but if you have other ideas, go for it. If it's there to buy and within budget, you (probably) can.
If Vel needs any ritual components, she needs to talk to Hroaldr. He will be able to help.
Shopping:
Tent (10gp)
10 more days' rations (5gp)
Alchemical reagents (25gp)
That work?
You each have 30gp as a downpayment from Hroaldr.
If you want to spend any of it, you may do so before boarding the boat. Please bear in mind that although you can buy basic supplies in Riggarth, you can't get very exotic stuff. Please post purchases so I can confirm that what you are trying to buy is available.
I'm pretty much thinking food supplies, but if you have other ideas, go for it. If it's there to buy and within budget, you (probably) can.
If Vel needs any ritual components, she needs to talk to Hroaldr. He will be able to help.
Shopping:
Tent (10gp)
10 more days' rations (5gp)
Alchemical reagents (25gp)That work?
Only if you already had 10gp left over from somewhere. I make that 40gp. The actual shopping list is fine.
Only if you already had 10gp left over from somewhere. I make that 40gp. The actual shopping list is fine.Shopping:
Tent (10gp)
10 more days' rations (5gp)
Alchemical reagents (25gp)That work?
And me the math guy. <sigh> 15gp of reagents.
So as per my extra shopping list I would like to purchase the following items if possible;
1 climbers kit (with one extra grappling hook) 3gp
Trail rations (10 extra days) 5gp
Flask 3cp (to possibly fill with this cider? I am after all a dwarf.)
1 tent 10gp
thus bringing the grand total to:
18gp, 3cp
sound good?
So as per my extra shopping list I would like to purchase the following items if possible;
1 climbers kit (with one extra grappling hook) 3gp
Trail rations (10 extra days) 5gp
Flask 3cp (to possibly fill with this cider? I am after all a dwarf.)
1 tent 10gpthus bringing the grand total to:
18gp, 3cpsound good?
Entirely fine. You'll like the cider from the Fruitful Bloom. It's good stuff. You should definitely take some along with you. Hroaldr will buy that for you. Future top-ups will set you back 1sp per flask.
"Goody more money to spend!"
Kia is a hardy lass and doesn't mind sleeping in the open (too much). And anyway, she doesn't sleep.
She buys:
Extra rations (10 days) 5gp
Thieves tools 20gp
Lantern 7gp
Fuel for the lantern? I can't see what the lantern burns or how much it costs or how long it burns. But I could just be blind.
She has 11gp left from her original spending spree so after this purchase, she would have 9gp left.
"Goody more money to spend!"
Kia is a hardy lass and doesn't mind sleeping in the open (too much). And anyway, she doesn't sleep.
She buys:
Extra rations (10 days) 5gp
Thieves tools 20gp
Lantern 7gp
Fuel for the lantern? I can't see what the lantern burns or how much it costs or how long it burns. But I could just be blind.She has 11gp left from her original spending spree so after this purchase, she would have 9gp left.
Wise men say that 4E streamlining has rendered the purchase of extra oil non-essential.
So you apparantly buy one lantern and get an eternity of fuel. Would that this happy scenario were true of lightbulds or torches in our world.
Your shopping list is acceptable.
EDIT: I'm not entirely happy about one lantern effectively being an ever-burning torch, but I'll live with it for now. I'm not really going to track lanterns to a great extent as you all have some kind of light source and a lot of you have low-light vision as well. But just so you know, if I can come up with a 4E compatible solution, I will do so. It's not exactly a priority, more a minor niggle.
I'll grab the same amount of extra rations as everyone else, but I'll save the rest of my advance.
My initative rolls are also done, though for actual combat rolls it's fine with me if you roll Rosey.
Whiteclaw - It shall be as you wish. Thanks for doing that.
I'm happy with the hooks, thanks.
How many days is this expedition supposed to be? I'll buy 5 or 10 days worth of rations, depending on anticipated length of the journey, I'll get myself some of that cider, and if no one has rope, I may take a coil of that as well.
My original gear purchase (see profile) included two sunrods... is that acceptable?
EDIT: my 10 invisible castle initiative rolls are up in my profile. Feel free to make additional rolls on my behalf, if necessary...
As for preferred play style. As long as there is significant interaction between the PCs (given the few NPCs), I should be okay. I'm not big on hack and slash gaming, and find that constant and drawn out battles can quickly become boring in a PbP. That having been said, like anyone, I do enjoy a good battle. I guess balance is the key (and I realize that whether "balance" has or has not been achieved will depend on each player's taste). Bottom line: it's a one shot. Do what you think feels right, and I'm sure that we can all manage to have fun and learn a thing or two about the new system...
I bought something that I think was called an Adventurer's kit that came with rope and 10 days worth of trail rations amongst other things. Are you guys buying food in addition to that?
I bought something that I think was called an Adventurer's kit that came with rope and 10 days worth of trail rations amongst other things. Are you guys buying food in addition to that?
Yeah, I bought some additional rations for that just to be on the safe side.
I'm happy with the hooks, thanks.
How many days is this expedition supposed to be? I'll buy 5 or 10 days worth of rations, depending on anticipated length of the journey, I'll get myself some of that cider, and if no one has rope, I may take a coil of that as well.
My original gear purchase (see profile) included two sunrods... is that acceptable?
EDIT: my 10 invisible castle initiative rolls are up in my profile. Feel free to make additional rolls on my behalf, if necessary... [/QUOTE}
*snip*
I guess balance is the key (and I realize that whether "balance" has or has not been achieved will depend on each player's taste). Bottom line: it's a one shot. Do what you think feels right, and I'm sure that we can all manage to have fun and learn a thing or two about the new system...
Up and running. Let's play.
Preferred conventions:
Thoughts, like this.
In case you really want to bring something to my or another player's attention.
To repeat, if we can keep rules discussions and ooc tactical planning over here, it makes life a little simpler.
WotC have just published some 4e errata. There is now oil (for the lamp) available at 1sp per pint.
Still doesn't say how long it burns though, but can I retrospectively purchase some...?
You may. Otherwise there is little point in having one unless you plan to use it as a paper-weight.
Purchase a sensible amount and deduct the money from your character sheet.
Now that Anarak mentions it, is Vel the only human?
Anarak - dragonborn fighter
Whiteclaw - gnoll fighter
Kia Rubarkas - eladrin warlord
Gobi Thovin - dwarf paladin
Baldrech the Unkind - shifter ranger
and
Vel - human wizard
Hadn't noticed myself either. Hmm Bifrost's offended the entire party then. Mind you he never claimed to be tactful.
Anarak - dragonborn fighter
Whiteclaw - gnoll fighter
Kia Rubarkas - eladrin warlord
Gobi Thovin - dwarf paladin
Baldrech the Unkind - shifter rangerand
Vel - human wizard
Hadn't noticed myself either. Hmm Bifrost's offended the entire party then. Mind you he never claimed to be tactful.
Hmm. I wasn't sure about Baldrech. I haven't read the Monster Manual section on Shifters. Are they basically humans that have been bitten? Or an entirely different race?
Kia Rubarkas - eladrin warlord
Because everyone deserves a well-made warlord.
:)
Hmm. I wasn't sure about Baldrech. I haven't read the Monster Manual section on Shifters. Are they basically humans that have been bitten? Or an entirely different race?
If I read it correctly, shifters are to lycanthropes what tieflings are to fiends (i.e., someone a few branches up my family tree was a lycanthrope).
If I read it correctly, shifters are to lycanthropes what tieflings are to fiends (i.e., someone a few branches up my family tree was a lycanthrope).
Hmm. I wasn't sure about Baldrech. I haven't read the Monster Manual section on Shifters. Are they basically humans that have been bitten? Or an entirely different race?
That's my understanding too. Shifters have evolved into a true breeding race much like tieflings. Not human, but the original splash of lycanthrope/fiend blood is a long way back.
Rev, FYI, the latest DMG errata completely overhauled skill challenges, including lowering the DCs. link
Thanks. Noted and taken into account. I didn't set especially high DCs on this one, partly because I just want to work out the mechanics with you all before we have to deal with combat.
Vel clearly knows her way around the waters in any case.
Contributor
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Rosey,
I'm sorry I've been out of the loop for the last few days... I haven't been online much and my connection here (I'm on vacation) is weak.
Of course, when I'm on vacation, I'm actually busier than usual, and then have to catch up later.
So I'm afraid I'm not going to be available after all. Which You probably assumed by now.
Again, sorry for the back and forth and then the big delay!
Not a problem at all.
If this goes reasonably and everyone enjoys themselves, I will probably run something longer - so maybe we'll get the chance again in the future.
You roll on whichever skill you pick in init order. You don't have to wait to post in order once initiative is established, I can sort all that out round by round. Questions, queries or what have you on the game thread.
Even though you specified to post questions on the "game thread", this really feels like a discussion topic. My apologies if I'm posting in the wrong place.
I haven't read the section on Skill Challenges in detail, but there are two things that strike me immediately.
The first is probably more related to PbP rather than 4E and it has to do with posting actions and initiatives in the same post. If Anarak fails his Athletics check with a 27, wouldn't other PCs avoid using that skill? Even if the 27 is metagame knowledge, I think it's unlikely that unathletic PCs would attempt an Athletics-based task that a highly-trained Dragonborn could not accomplish.
The second is that this setup seems really easy to min/max on. If I have +9 on Athletics and there are consequences for failure, why wouldn't others just wait until I make all the necessary checks?
I'm not trying to burst the Skill Challenge bubble, just wondering if I'm missing something, and what it is.
Everybody taking part in a skill challenge HAS to use a skill; you're all assumed to be trying at the same time. Also if you're the best at Athletics, that's great, but it doesn't mean that everyone else does nothing.
You roll on whichever skill you pick in init order. You don't have to wait to post in order once initiative is established, I can sort all that out round by round. Questions, queries or what have you on the game thread.Even though you specified to post questions on the "game thread", this really feels like a discussion topic. My apologies if I'm posting in the wrong place.
I haven't read the section on Skill Challenges in detail, but there are two things that strike me immediately.
The first is probably more related to PbP rather than 4E and it has to do with posting actions and initiatives in the same post. If Anarak fails his Athletics check with a 27, wouldn't other PCs avoid using that skill? Even if the 27 is metagame knowledge, I think it's unlikely that unathletic PCs would attempt an Athletics-based task that a highly-trained Dragonborn could not accomplish.
The second is that this setup seems really easy to min/max on. If I have +9 on Athletics and there are consequences for failure, why wouldn't others just wait until I make all the necessary checks?
I'm not trying to burst the Skill Challenge bubble, just wondering if I'm missing something, and what it is.
You're absolutely right that this is a discussion thread topic and I was (apologies) suffering from fluff brain when I posted otherwise. I'm also still tweaking with the errata.
My understanding is that a skill challenge is effectively a combat rolled against skills rather than AC/Fort/Ref/Will etc.
The point here is that each member of the group needs to contribute to the challenge. While you are assumed to be acting together, as in combat, initiative order is a representative of swiftness of reflexes or some such thing.
Athletics or Nature seemed like the most likely skills you would use for this particular challenge (i.e. rowing a boat through tricky waters with hidden reefs). Since you're all in the boat, you all participate.
Between you, you have to roll six successes BEFORE you roll three failures. With a party of six, if you all roll a success on round one, the challenge ends there - you've accomplished that it needed you to do.
In this case, Gobi flubbed (cider - it's dangerous stuff), so in order to complete the challenge you will need to roll again. As soon as the necessary number of successes comes up, again the challenge ends - in the same way that in combat once the monster is down, combat ends.
That's the way I'm thinking of it anyway.
It's also the reason I put it in early as a kind of shake-down run to see where the system kinks are.
There are individual skill challenges as well of course, but I think they would run in a similar way.
To take your example, if Anarak entered an arm-wrestling contest, it would be him rolling Athletics and only him. He'd need to roll whatever number of successes before whatever number of failures, but none of the others could participate.
Does this help or have I missed your question?
Also, anyone else have thoughts on how to run these things? I really like the concept myself - it's an elegant way of using party skills.
They have revised it so that you don't roll initiative for skill challenges, I think. I prefer that, as doing so seems somewhat constrictive.
Ahah. Missed that bit.
Fair enough.
Principle still stands though, everyone participates. If three flubs come up before six wins (in this case), it's an all around fail.
In which case, with Whiteclaw's newest roll, you have succeeded.
Sorry about the confusion everyone. I'm still extremely new to this. But I'd rather sort it out now than later.
You're doing it right Rosey. I'm not that happy that they removed init from them, though. IMO, it's a mistake since now the DM needs to enforce that everyone goes and just doesn't default to the person with the highest skill. Also, don't forget that in a more social skill challenge you can apply DM modifiers to the roll based on the players RP - something a lot of 3.5 DMs needed to do more of with diplomacy checks!
Certainly from the DM point of view having the init roll made life easier for pbp particularly.
And yes, big yes, to DM modifiers being applied for rp in social situations.
The key thing really is that all party members need to participate in some way, so it's up to the group to decide where their strengths lie. In a social skill challenge, someone with poor social skills would be able to pick another way resolve the challenge - at a penalty probably, but in my case I'd use my DMing prerogative and if it was a clever enough idea, maybe not.
I like the flexibility of that and will be using it, although it's only fair to say that the forested shores of Pharoe are not littered with social encounters.
Ok, thanks for the explanation. I didn't realize all PCs had to participate. It sounds like you are doing it right, and I suppose I agree that initiative does help. Otherwise, I'm not sure how you would decide who's action counts in a round that starts when we are sitting at 5 successes and 2 failures.
I like the idea that you can have non-combat encounters that use skills rather than making a single diplomacy roll. I don't really like the feeling that the more highly skilled PCs are competing against other PCs for who gets to roll first. My live group tends to metagame and I'm sure they will leave the low-charisma PC behind when they go into a negotiation so that they don't have to roll. This seems like a negative aspect to me.
Does anyone know if you can Aid Another in 4E? How would that effect a skill challenge? Would it use up your turn and replace having to roll?
You can certainly aid another.
I'm still trying to clarify how that works within a skill challenge, because there is a distinction between a skill challenge in which all the group participate and and skill challenge where the person who is best at a particular skill tries to use it and can be aided by other group members. If they take that option, that is their turn., they don't also roll for themselves.
My gut feeling is that for a skill challenge like the one you've just done, I would rule against using aid another. The whole point is that you all participate with your own rolls and it reflects the various skills of the party.
I'm prepared to bet good money as well that if the situation was desperate enough, most of the rpg-ers I've met and played with would come up with inventive suggestions very fast indeed.
Aid another is the same mechanic as 3.5 - any roll over 10 adds a +2 to the main roll. There's an upper limit of +8 that can be added in this way though.
I'm glad they published the errata, but blimey, it's making life tricky as I merrily write all over the new books.
Ok, thanks for the explanation. I didn't realize all PCs had to participate. It sounds like you are doing it right, and I suppose I agree that initiative does help. Otherwise, I'm not sure how you would decide who's action counts in a round that starts when we are sitting at 5 successes and 2 failures.
I like the idea that you can have non-combat encounters that use skills rather than making a single diplomacy roll. I don't really like the feeling that the more highly skilled PCs are competing against other PCs for who gets to roll first. My live group tends to metagame and I'm sure they will leave the low-charisma PC behind when they go into a negotiation so that they don't have to roll. This seems like a negative aspect to me.
Does anyone know if you can Aid Another in 4E? How would that effect a skill challenge? Would it use up your turn and replace having to roll?
If your group does this remind them of two things:
1. Even in a negotiation, you have your skill gamut to use, not just Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate. So, that character with no social skills might use History or Relgion to recall something that aids. The DMG examples show this well.
2. It's an encounter. You get XP for them. If you don't go to the negotiation, you don't get that XP.
As for Aid Another in a Skill Challenge, that depends a lot on the challenge and how it was used, I think it's a case by case thing.
1. Even in a negotiation, you have your skill gamut to use, not just Diplomacy, Bluff, and Intimidate. So, that character with no social skills might use History or Relgion to recall something that aids. The DMG examples show this well.
2. It's an encounter. You get XP for them. If you don't go to the negotiation, you don't get that XP.
Good points. Thanks! The second one, at least, will definitely work.
Rituals are another test drive area.
If I am reading it correctly, as long as Vel isn't disturbed, she will cast this successfully.
Where matters become a little cloudier is the Arcana check. In order to speak as well as understand the language, Vel needs to rustle up an Arcana check of 35 - not possible by herself at 1st level.
However, it seems that up to 4 allies (or others) can contribute to a ritual check and they don't have to be trained in Arcana or have the Ritual Casting feat. They do have to be within 5 squares of the caster.
The phrasing is not entirely clear here, but I think another four of you could make an Aid Another roll to help push Vel to that magic figure of 35. For now I'm going to rule that you can try this. It's a very long shot anyway, but give it a go if you'd like.
Everyone can try every skill, remember, so no, they don't need to be trained, you're right. I like the idea of other people 'aiding' the check by participating in the ritual. Good image.
The thing that's really surfacing for me with 4E is how much more cooperative a game it can be. Specialists are needed (i.e. no rituals at all unless someone has Ritual Casting), but everyone can help pull off the trickier stunts.
I like that - it feels the right way to play this.
The thing that's really surfacing for me with 4E is how much more cooperative a game it can be. Specialists are needed (i.e. no rituals at all unless someone has Ritual Casting), but everyone can help pull off the trickier stunts.
I like that - it feels the right way to play this.
I haven't read up on rituals, but one thing I definitely like about skill checks is that your chance of succeeding feels more appropriate. In 3.5, it always seemed like specialist PCs would always succeed and non-specialist PCs would fail. Especially at mid to high level, where there could easily be a 10 to 15 point difference in bonuses to various skills. The +5 training and half-level modifier feels a lot better.
Just a quick note to inform you all that I will be away and without access to the internet for the coming week (from now until the evening of August 4). I apologize for the inconvenience. DM, please NPC my character as you see fit.
Thanks!
Just a quick note to inform you all that I will be away and without access to the internet for the coming week (from now until the evening of August 4). I apologize for the inconvenience. DM, please NPC my character as you see fit.
Thanks!
Thank you for letting us know. I promise not to turn Baldrech into a Carebear in your absence :D
Also - a general thanks to all the players. Your rp has made it easy for me to get a sense of how your characters would respond if I do need to DMPC any of them. I'm grateful as well for your patience with my faffing about with testing things.
Squishy types to the middle!