The domain & school abilities are for the most part considered Spell Like Abilities, which function off of Charisma.
I've seen alot of complaints about this here on the boards,
because it means the Saving Throws for these are not benefiting from the "Primary Stat" (except for Sorcerors),
but as of Alpha, these are supposed to be Charisma-based.
There ARE benefits from them being considered SLAs, though:
no components for spells
no spellcraft check/ interruption from combat
Int/Wis damage/de-buffs don't reduce their effectiveness
I can see why it isn't liked by caster-players, but since all the non-caster classes have multiple stat dependency,
and Intelligence is so usefull anyways (for skill ranks), I don't think it's too unfair on the casters...
Wish I could credit the OP with this one, but I forget which thread it was on and what his name was. Anyway, someone said something in response to a similar thread, it was a little harsh, but accurate. Something to the effect of:
They have to use Charisma because they are spell-like abilities... you know... just like *everybody else* who uses spell-like abilities.
Then it was pointed out that Rogue's (sp) for minor/major magic go off of int. Counter arguement: Well... they damn well should go off charisma (seriously!). But it's not like you expect the rogue to be owning everyone with the DCs on 0 and 1st level spell-likes.
I think they should keep it charisma. Yes it is a secondary stat. But so what? It's only a few spell-likes that you can use a couple of times per day, many of the spell-likes aren't even things that require a save, so what do you care if they're based off charisma?
I don't have the Alpha in front of me here, so I don't know how exactly the Rogue's Minor Magic is categorized...
But I think the Rogue's Minor Magic abilities lets them CAST spells, which means they need to make Spellcraft/ Concentration checks, whereas SLAs are just standard actions that aren't interruptable (like Monster abilities).
If Paizo was going for consistency in all this, I personally would nominate ALL the Sorceror's spells to be categorized as SLAs, which cannot be interrupted/ do not trigger Spellcraft/ Concentration checks... I like the 'difference' that introduces for Sorcerors... It would also go along with the Bloodlines with claws, etc, which suggest the Sorceror being in melee more. (Though we'll see how those go once Beta is public)
...It's saying they're treated like other spells in terms of duration and other variables based on level. It's not saying they're treated like other spells in general. It's re-stated how Charisma bonus applies to SLAs, to clarify that these are treated as SLAs, and how they work.
I don't really think that line is strictly NECESSARY, since the spells have level-based variables described internal to themselves, not based on a generic spell system. It's just like how a Monster's SLA's variable effects are based on the Monster HD (but PC class levels in this case.)
Shisumo:
Oh well, I was wrong. I think it would be more flavorful to go that way, with Minor Magic Rogues "casting" (I would make Spellcraft rank prereq's for the Magic Rogue Talents), and Sorcerors using SLAs. Rogues could multiclass as Sorcerors if they want 'inherent' SLAs. (and a 1-level dip in Sorceror is a great option for a Rogue, with natural/ranged touch attacks they can Sneak Attack with)
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Just to clarify
[b[Using a spell-like ability while threatened provokes attacks of opportunity. It is possible to make a Concentration check to use a spell-like ability defensively and avoid provoking an attack of opportunity. A spell-like ability can be disrupted just as a spell can be.[/b] Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and to being dispelled by dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated.
They have to use Charisma because they are spell-like abilities... you know... just like *everybody else* who uses spell-like abilities.
Yeah, just like every other classes SLAs are based on Charisma like the wizard or the sorcerer... *Gasp* wait, the sorcerer's SLAs are CON based.
Making the SLAs CHA based was to add a touch of attribute dependence to the classes outside their primary attribute. The SLAs are deliberately tied to charisma. In the case of the sorcerer they are tied to CON which IMO is good because their primary attribute isn't good for very much of anything while the wizard and the clerics primary attributes are quite useful of themselves.
Clerics probably want a high charisma in any case because their channeling abilities are based on charisma. Kind of turns a lot of the common class builds on their head.
Just to clarify
[b[Using a spell-like ability while threatened provokes attacks of opportunity. It is possible to make a Concentration check to use a spell-like ability defensively and avoid provoking an attack of opportunity. A spell-like ability can be disrupted just as a spell can be.[/b] Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and to being dispelled by dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated.
That's cool to know. I never allowed my PCs AoOs when fighting Monsters with SLAs
(or rolled the Monster's Concentration check to see if they do). Cool beans.
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Once again, and something I've asked for in all of the threads that have come up about this - it would be nice if Jason actually commented. It would be nice if *SOMEONE* commented that actually knows why this is how it is. However, previous calls have gotten nowhere.. perhaps they are waiting for me to ask a certain number of times (like the villain in Austin Powers... :)
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Hey there everybody,
As for the Alpha 3, these spells are based of Charisma, along with all other spell-like abilities. Of course, we have seen this as a problem and there might be a change coming in the Beta.
Hope that helps,
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
By the way, welcome back, Jason.
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Hey there everybody,
As for the Alpha 3, these spells are based of Charisma, along with all other spell-like abilities. Of course, we have seen this as a problem and there might be a change coming in the Beta.
Hope that helps,
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
... all other spell-like abilities... except the rogue's, you mean?
Anyway, I hope that your statement means there actually has been some change, whatever it is, in the beta. It's obviously far too top-secret to reveal here without hunting is all down and killing us, I guess. ;)
And yes, welcome back.