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Some of the discussion in the thread on Aasimar here got me to thinking about rough mechanical ideas for all of the various options for Planetouched races, and this is what resulted. Critique away.
All of them are (at first guess) ECL 0 when compared to the other Pathfinder races, and of the Outsider (native) type
Aasimar
+2 Str, +2 Wis, -2 Con
Darkvision 60'
+2 racial bonus to auditory and visual Perception checks
Daylight 1/day, CL = HD
Resistance 5 to Acid, Cold, and Electricity
Automatic Languages: Common, Celestial. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elvish, Gnomish, Halfling, Sylvan
Favored Class: Cleric or Paladin, chosen at character creation
Tiefling
+2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha
Darkvision 60'
+2 racial bonus to Bluff and Stealth checks
Darkness 1/day, CL = HD
Resistance 5 to Cold, Electricity, and Fire
Automatic Languages: Common and either Infernal or Abyssal. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Goblin, Halfling, Orcish, Undercommon, and the other of Infernal or Abyssal not chosen as an automatic language
Favored Class: Rogue or Wizard, chosen at character creation
Windling
+2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Str
Darkvision 60'
+2 racial bonus to Acrobatics and Escape Artist checks
Resistance 10 to Electricity
Gust of Wind 1/day, CL = HD
Automatic Languages: Common and Elemental. Bonus Languages: ???
Favored Class: Ranger or Rogue, chosen at character creation
Stoneborn
+2 Str, +2 Wis, -2 Dex
Darkvision 60'
+2 racial bonus to Survival checks
Resistance 10 to Acid
Soften Earth and Stone 1/day, CL = HD
Automatic Languages: Common and Elemental. Bonus Languages: ???
Favored Class: Druid or Fighter, chosen at character creation
Flamekissed
+2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Wis
Darkvision 60'
+2 racial bonus to Acrobatics and Intimidate checks
Resistance 10 to Fire
Produce Flame 1/day, CL = HD
Automatic Languages: Common and Elemental. Bonus Languages: ???
Favored Class: Barbarian or Sorcerer, chosen at character creation
Waveschild
+2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha
Darkvision 60'
+4 racial bonus to Swim checks, Swim is always a class skill
Resistance 10 to Cold
Water Breathing 1/day, CL = HD
Automatic Languages: Common and Elemental. Bonus Languages: ???
Favored Class: Cleric or Fighter, chosen at character creation
Stromsblöd (as Pathfinder's CN Outer Plane is "The Maelstrom")
Roll 1d3: 1 = +2 Str, 2 = +2 Dex, 3 = +2 Con
Roll 1d3: 1 = +2 Int, 2 = +2 Wis, 3 = +2 Cha
Roll 1d6: 1 = -2 Str, 2 = -2 Dex, 3 = -2 Con, 4 = -2 Int, 5 = -2 Wis, 6 = -2 Cha
(Yes, these bonuses and penalties can cancel out to just a +2 to one score - they're the Chaos-touched, after all.)
Darkvision 60'
+2 racial bonus to Disable Device and Escape Artist checks
Resistance 5 to Sonic and Resistance 5 to (roll 1d4: 1 = Acid, 2 = Cold, 3 = Electricity, 4 = Fire)
Shatter 1/day, CL = HD
Automatic Languages: Common and Elven. Bonus Languages: ???
Favored Class: Barbarian or Rogue, chosen at character creation
Axian (And the new LN plane is Axis)
+2 Str, +2 Wis, -2 Cha
Darkvision 60'
+2 racial bonus to Sense Motive and Perception
Resistance 5 to Cold and Fire
Calm Emotions 1/day, CL = HD
Automatic Languages: Common and Dwarven. Bonus Languages: ???
Favored Class: Fighter or Monk, chosen at character creation
IMO, resistance 10 is too much, give them resistance 5, and let Aasimar and Thiefling choose one. Make a racial feat in the lines of:
Enhanced Planetouched Resistance
Prerequisite: Planetouched
Benefit: Your racial resistance is 5 points higher than usual. As an Aasimar or Thiefling you can choose to have another of your racial resistances at 5 points.
and... well... "Stromsblöd" sounds really stupid, at least for a german... because "blöd" means literally "stupid" in german. ;)
EDIT: Axians and Stromsblöd (*giggles*) should have only one resistance as well. I like the randomness of the latter...
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IMO, resistance 10 is too much, give them resistance 5, and let Aasimar and Thiefling choose one. Make a racial feat in the lines of:
Enhanced Planetouched Resistance
Prerequisite: Planetouched
Benefit: Your racial resistance is 5 points higher than usual. As an Aasimar or Thiefling you can choose to have another of your racial resistances at 5 points.and... well... "Stromsblöd" sounds really stupid, at least for a german... because "blöd" means literally "stupid" in german. ;)
EDIT: Axians and Stromsblöd (*giggles*) should have only one resistance as well. I like the randomness of the latter...
*Reads what I wrote a few hours ago, then chuckles* Shows how much I remember from high school German.
I was trying to go for a different suffix to each one rather than just reusing -kin or -born over and over again. Maybe just drop the superfluous umlaut and go straight "Stromsblood".
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Also, I suppose you could blame it on carryover from my having just gone through and updated my MP3s from the Metalocalypse album from "Dethklok" to "Dëthkløk".
I love Metalocalypse! Ironically, that's the best selling death metal album ever and it's not even a "real" band.
Back on topic: I would change the tiefling's penalty from -2 Cha to -2 Wis. I always thought that penalty never made sense mechanically or flavorfully. It means that Tieflings make bad Warlocks and bad Sorcerers. What? The -2 Wisdom seperates them from divine casters, and considering that they're descended from demons, that makes sense. Also, I bet they have poor judgement and are easily influenced by bribery and such. I mean, they're descended from demons. DEMONS!
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Back on topic: I would change the tiefling's penalty from -2 Cha to -2 Wis. I always thought that penalty never made sense mechanically or flavorfully. It means that Tieflings make bad Warlocks and bad Sorcerers. What? The -2 Wisdom seperates them from divine casters, and considering that they're descended from demons, that makes sense. Also, I bet they have poor judgement and are easily influenced by bribery and such. I mean, they're descended from demons. DEMONS!
I can certainly see that point. In 2e they had a bonus to Charisma, not a penalty. +1 Int and Cha, -1 to Str and Wis. Maybe now in Pathfinder shift it to +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Wis.
Then I might want to shift the Flamekissed to a penalty to Charisma (not so sure I like that name now in retrospect - too close to something belonging in a burger commercial) just so no race has all the same ability score adjustments.
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Back on topic: I would change the tiefling's penalty from -2 Cha to -2 Wis. I always thought that penalty never made sense mechanically or flavorfully. It means that Tieflings make bad Warlocks and bad Sorcerers. What? The -2 Wisdom seperates them from divine casters, and considering that they're descended from demons, that makes sense. Also, I bet they have poor judgement and are easily influenced by bribery and such. I mean, they're descended from demons. DEMONS!I can certainly see that point. In 2e they had a bonus to Charisma, not a penalty. +1 Int and Cha, -1 to Str and Wis. Maybe now in Pathfinder shift it to +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Wis.
Then I might want to shift the Flamekissed to a penalty to Charisma (not so sure I like that name now in retrospect - too close to something belonging in a burger commercial) just so no race has all the same ability score adjustments.
Did you see the tiefling in th 2e Planescape MM?! Wowser! definite cha. bonus...
...just sayin'
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Back on topic: I would change the tiefling's penalty from -2 Cha to -2 Wis. I always thought that penalty never made sense mechanically or flavorfully. It means that Tieflings make bad Warlocks and bad Sorcerers. What? The -2 Wisdom seperates them from divine casters, and considering that they're descended from demons, that makes sense. Also, I bet they have poor judgement and are easily influenced by bribery and such. I mean, they're descended from demons. DEMONS!
The Half-Fiend template has bonuses to every attribute *but* Wisdom, so it would best fit the precedent for Tieflings to not be penalized in anything but Wisdom.
The Wisdom penalty could even be role-played as their fiendish heritage distracting them. While a human might have a figurative angel on one shoulder and a figurative devil on the other, the Tiefling has a *literal* devil whispering in her ear, and sometimes it's just plain distracting, causing her to not make Spot or Listen checks that anyone else would have made, or to succumb to temptations that anyone else would have resisted more readily.
I love these templates! They seem balanced and the adjustments to the OP in the thread are sensible. I've nothing really to offer by way of technical adjustments but I do add my enthusiasm.
Nice work, Kvantum. I've always loved the elemental planetouched races! I fondly remember the para-genasi from Dragon #297: dust, ice, magma, ooze, smoke, and steam. One of my favorite characters I ever played was an air genasi rogue named Amara.
Do you guys think adding their "breathless" immunity to drowning, suffocation, and attacks that require inhalation make the windling overpowered? And if not, what could we then give the other races listed above to balance things out?
I would change the tiefling's penalty from -2 Cha to -2 Wis. I always thought that penalty never made sense mechanically or flavorfully. It means that Tieflings make bad Warlocks and bad Sorcerers. What? The -2 Wisdom seperates them from divine casters, and considering that they're descended from demons, that makes sense. Also, I bet they have poor judgement and are easily influenced by bribery and such. I mean, they're descended from demons. DEMONS!
I agree whole heartedly! The "unsettling" thing to try and validate the CHA penalty never made any sense to me, especially when even WotC would publish NPC Tiefling Sorcs. If we do change -2 Cha to -2 Wis then I suggest changing favored wizard to sorc. Heck, even change the +2 Int to +2 Cha. Their unusual heritage could make them exotically aluring. I don't understand, thematically, why they even get the +2 Int.
As for the other races, I think they are close. Resist 10 to one may be too much, its debatebly as good or even better then Resist 5 to three. I also looked at all the Angels/Archons in the MM and Str is consistantly their highest stat with Dex being the lowest, with Wis being slightly higher than Cha, so I'd give Aasimar +2 STR, +2 WIS, -2 DEX. This also compliments their favored classes which are normaly heavily armored.
Nice work, Kvantum. I've always loved the elemental planetouched races! I fondly remember the para-genasi from Dragon #297: dust, ice, magma, ooze, smoke, and steam. One of my favorite characters I ever played was an air genasi rogue named Amara.
Do you guys think adding their "breathless" immunity to drowning, suffocation, and attacks that require inhalation make the windling overpowered? And if not, what could we then give the other races listed above to balance things out?
I think something along that line actually helps out the possibility of resist 10 being too powerful. I'd vote for resist 5 and maybe something like:
Breathless (Su)- A Windling is mmune to inhaled poisons and drowning effects caused by something other than total submersion. They still take penalties from stagnant or smoke-filled air. Windlings don’t breathe like normal races, but they still need air to sustain them.
Water Breathing (Su)- A Wavechald can breath water as though it were air. A Wavechild’s magical nature allows it to pull oxygen from water.
Fire in the Blood (Su)- Whenever a Flamekissed takes melee damage from a slashing or piercing damage, that attacker takes 1d6 fire damage if they are in an adjacent square. A Flamekissed’s blood doesn’t just turn red in oxygen, it combusts.
Gravely Constitution (Su)- A Stoneborn is immune to bleed effects. A Stoneborn’s blood runs thick and hardens quickly to staunch any wound.
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I'm not exactly in love with the idea of earth elemental based creatures being associated with Acid resistance. (Sure, I can rationalize it, that Earth critters are associated with solidity, and acid generally breaks down solids, but I feel like I am stretching to justify a fairly arbitrary decision.)
Flame planetouched (sunwrought?) having Fire Resistance makes sense. A bonus to saving throws vs. fire (and fort saves vs. heat) would work just as well, 'though, versus spells that have saving throws (but leave them more vulnerable to spells like Scorching Ray).
Water planetouched (seachanged?) having the ability to survive underwater, resist pressure effects, move unhindered underwater, whatever also fits. But a plus to saves vs Cold (and pressure effects) fits better, IMO, than blanket Cold Resistance.
Air planetouched (skyborne?) having Electrical Resistance doesn't work at all for me. Sonic Resistance would make more sense, but even then, I don't think it fits unless one is deliberately trying to kludge an Energy Resist into every planetouched. Instead they should have some bonus to avoid falling damage (perhaps even getting a Reflex Save or Acrobatics roll to avoid all damage) and a bonus to Jump checks. All wind effects (from the DMG) would affect them as if they were one size class larger *or* smaller, as they wish (they can choose as a reaction whether to resist the wind or allow it to carry them away).
Earth planetouched (sandshaped?) would make more sense to have DR that would apply to metal and stone weapons (and be overcome by attacks from natural weapons or wooden weapons) than any sort of Energy Resistance. Even DR/Piercing would fit (making a Pick the ideal weapon to chip away at a person whose skin shares traits with stone).
I'm not exactly in love with the idea of earth elemental based creatures being associated with Acid resistance. (Sure, I can rationalize it, that Earth critters are associated with solidity, and acid generally breaks down solids, but I feel like I am stretching to justify a fairly arbitrary decision.)
Flame planetouched (sunwrought?) having Fire Resistance makes sense. A bonus to saving throws vs. fire (and fort saves vs. heat) would work just as well, 'though, versus spells that have saving throws (but leave them more vulnerable to spells like Scorching Ray).
Water planetouched (seachanged?) having the ability to survive underwater, resist pressure effects, move unhindered underwater, whatever also fits. But a plus to saves vs Cold (and pressure effects) fits better, IMO, than blanket Cold Resistance.
Air planetouched (skyborne?) having Electrical Resistance doesn't work at all for me. Sonic Resistance would make more sense, but even then, I don't think it fits unless one is deliberately trying to kludge an Energy Resist into every planetouched. Instead they should have some bonus to avoid falling damage (perhaps even getting a Reflex Save or Acrobatics roll to avoid all damage) and a bonus to Jump checks. All wind effects (from the DMG) would affect them as if they were one size class larger *or* smaller, as they wish (they can choose as a reaction whether to resist the wind or allow it to carry them away).
Earth planetouched (sandshaped?) would make more sense to have DR that would apply to metal and stone weapons (and be overcome by attacks from natural weapons or wooden weapons) than any sort of Energy Resistance. Even DR/Piercing would fit (making a Pick the ideal weapon to chip away at a person whose skin shares traits with stone).
The energy resitance associations I think are fairly standard DnD. The Elemental Savant from Complete arcane specifically associates them as air=electricity, earth=acid, fire=fire, water=cold. The sugestion of save bonuses is also a good idea. The genasi from the Forgotten Realms Campain Setting all get ratial bonuses on saves versus their associated element (note its spells of that element description, not energy type). I could see a minor ability along the line that either of us has suggested with some sort of scaling save bonus replacing energy resistances so that all the planetouched races aren't the same. Also, I really like Sunwrought and Skyborne as names.
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The energy resistance associations I think are fairly standard DnD. The Elemental Savant from Complete arcane specifically associates them as air=electricity, earth=acid, fire=fire, water=cold. The suggestion of save bonuses is also a good idea. The genasi from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting all get racial bonuses on saves versus their associated element (note its spells of that element description, not energy type).
Exactly my point. I was trying to avoid as much direct comparison of genasi as possible, since they aren't OGC, and yet still get something of the feel of a humanoid/elemental crossbreed. Saving throw bonuses are just too close to the genasi idea for my tastes.
I think something along that line actually helps out the possibility of resist 10 being too powerful. I'd vote for resist 5 and maybe something like:
Breathless (Su)- A Windling is immune to inhaled poisons and drowning effects caused by something other than total submersion. They still take penalties from stagnant or smoke-filled air. Windlings don’t breathe like normal races, but they still need air to sustain them.
Water Breathing (Su)- A Wavechild can breath water as though it were air. A Wavechild’s magical nature allows it to pull oxygen from water.
Fire in the Blood (Su)- Whenever a Flamekissed takes melee damage from a slashing or piercing damage, that attacker takes 1d6 fire damage if they are in an adjacent square. A Flamekissed’s blood doesn’t just turn red in oxygen, it combusts.
Gravely Constitution (Su)- A Stoneborn is immune to bleed effects. A Stoneborn’s blood runs thick and hardens quickly to staunch any wound.
And see, I like the general idea of something else, but I think even with Resist 5 these are too much. I specifically did not give Wavechildren continuous water breathing for a reason - I want them to have it be something they can do part of a day, at least at any lower level, but they're not [Water] subtype elemental beings, they're humanoids with a touch of elemental heritage. Now advanced Wavechildren, yes, that's fair and in keeping with what I had in mind, but with this system the way it is, they get water breathing 2 hours per day per level. After level 12, they can essentially breathe water at will.
Hmm. Looked at it all again, and I think your original take for your concept is closer than my suggestions. I'm still not entirely sold on resist 10. Maybe reduce it to 5, or even let it scale with HD, so it starts at 5 and and can be increased by 5 points per 4HD once per day as an immediate action.
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Hmm. Looked at it all again, and I think your original take for your concept is closer than my suggestions. I'm still not entirely sold on resist 10. Maybe reduce it to 5, or even let it scale with HD, so it starts at 5 and and can be increased by 5 points per 4HD once per day as an immediate action.
You might do it as Resist 5, Resist 10 at 5th level... but none of the existing Pathfinder races have abilities that improve like that. Maybe split the difference and use OGL rounding and go Resist 7? Still, the idea I'm going for is to distinguish the elemental planetouched from the outer planes planetouched with one really good energy resistance instead of 2 or 3 decent ones.
With this, and any of the stuff I'm throwing up here, I do have to admit that I'm looking more at balance for ECL 10+, where I'm more comfortable both running and playing. I don't really run or play a lot of games at level 1 or 2, and even the ones I run at 3-9 I tend to play fairly fast and loose with "balance" issues. It's why I never entered the RPG Superstar competition - I'm so used to hearing "It's too overpowered! Don't care if it's good or not, it's just too overpowered!"
I specifically did not give Wavechildren continuous water breathing for a reason - I want them to have it be something they can do part of a day
I like that idea. It negates my concerns we might be making these too powerful. As for the windling/skyborne, maybe we could go along those same lines--they can hold their breath for a really long time but not indefinitely.
Allow me to pose another question. I know we're trying to get away from WotC concepts and start fresh, but do you think clerics of these races should be required to take their element as a domain?
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Allow me to pose another question. I know we're trying to get away from WotC concepts and start fresh, but do you think clerics of these races should be required to take their element as a domain?
No, any more than we should require tieflings to take the Evil domain or aasimar to take Good. They're born with a predisposition towards their planar heritage, but they're mostly mortal, and thus can choose to follow it or ignore it.
Most elemental planetouched (we need a general name for the whole type to replace genasi) would tend to follow gods that grant their elemental ancestor's respective domains, but by no mean s would they be restricted to those gods only.
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Allow me to pose another question. I know we're trying to get away from WotC concepts and start fresh, but do you think clerics of these races should be required to take their element as a domain?
I awlays disliked that rule. Don't put it in. Now, I don't see anything wrong with giving water "genasi" the ability to breathe water. A low-level PC can get an item that does the same, and it doesn't seem imbalanced. Giving air "genasi" the ability to not breathe at all never seemed flavorful to me. If anything, they would breathe incredibly much. Maybe they could have a huge lung capacity and give them the Lizardfolk's Hold Breath.
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Now, I don't see anything wrong with giving water "genasi" the ability to breathe water. A low-level PC can get an item that does the same, and it doesn't seem imbalanced. Giving air "genasi" the ability to not breathe at all never seemed flavorful to me. If anything, they would breathe incredibly much. Maybe they could have a huge lung capacity and give them the Lizardfolk's Hold Breath.
The problem with giving windlings/air-based planetouched the ability to survive without breath is that it gives them the wavechild's ability plus more on top of it. Now maybe if the air-kin's stat bonuses and spell-like ability were vastly inferior, but that's certainly not what I was going for. I want the four types to all average out over all, certainly some will be better at some tasks/classes/general character types than others, but that's just the same as the core races.
Hold Breath at (4x Con score) in rounds for Windlings sounds like an idea that I could see working, though.
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EDIT: Err...I really should learn to read a bit more carefully :P
Annnnyhow....
Windling: Add a bonus to the Fly skill. Consider Levitation as a spell-like ability instead?Stoneborn: Add stonecunning?
Levitation is the air genasi's spell-like ability, so I tried to find something else appropriate for the theme. A +2 to Fly might work, if/when a windling finally gets a reliable form of magical flight.
Stonecunning would work. I hadn't really intended to add on the various little racial powers to the planetouched but I can easily see it working. Though I'd drop the energy resistance back to 5 if we're adding on stuff beyond the spell-like and the skill bonuses... which I just realized Stoneborn don't have enough of. So maybe Stonecunning and Survival +2 is enough.
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Now, I don't see anything wrong with giving water "genasi" the ability to breathe water.
Water Breathing, like 'decking' in Cyberpunk games, merely serves as a way to seperate the party and have one character doing something in an area that the rest of of the characters can't access.
Unless *everyone* has Water Breathing, the power is either going to be useless (because the adventure doesn't accomodate the power) or risky (because the adventure is meant for a team, and overly dangerous to a single character who wanders off on his own).
From a meta-game perspective, it's a dangerous power to have.
Air Genasi *not* breathing also never really made sense to me. It would be thematic even to have them more susceptible to airborne toxins or whatever because they 'breathe' through their entire bodies or something, and have their diaphanous clothing ripple and billow as their pores respire.
We still need a name for "genasi" - the only thing that comes to mind is the nonsensical "aefwikith". Sounds weird, obscure, and rather a bit obvious, when you look at it.
Somebody please come up with something better.
Actually, isn't the FRCS an OGC source? If so, than the Genasi ARE OGC.
I could be wrong though, as I don't have the book in front of me.