Ok, but if you want the piercers as antagonists, instead of as dungeon hazard, and give them some agenda on their own (you know, to f with minds of players that have seen everything already) you would have to make them something more.
That's why I put up the link to http://chaudronchromatique.blogspot.de/
RISE, THREAD!
or, more aptly, climb back up the wall...
Because I love the piercer, and because of this, I will take these and adapt them a little. First, they are aberrations (or maybe magical beasts?), and a little intelligent, like 4 or 5 and 6 or 7 for the elder ones. And something like 10-12 for the king, the "stone wizards", and the control piercers.
I think piercing should be a little more damage. Just because. And the AC will be higher (via natural armor). DR maybe. No slam attack on the gorund. So that you could really easy kill them - if you can damage them at all. Yes, high DR! But no Acid. Maybe a weak spot if thrown down, but not very easy to be done (massive bonus to CMD against it, because of snail foot).
Hm, quite a few changes. Someone interested in piercers?
Hi, I just searched this thread but I didn't find it, though I'm quite sure I read something about it...
How about transferring custom monsters from one installement to the other? Because I just realized, that the monster I'm looking for is still on my old harddrive... ;)
EDIT: Facepalm <_<°
I never used the menu... but now I know what it is for.
Oh, and Kyle: Great program. I use it all the time! Thank you so very much!
Great thing.
I'll have to wait and see the details, but as an original pre-orderer, I will probably go for the get even more swag kickstarter option. Quite excited :)
Even though I'm still kinda pissed at Nic and how he handled the situation back in the day! :(
Just logging in to say: Thank you for this cool tool.
And as the saving issue is adressed already, just one short observation: If you let your creation stay "onboard" before exiting, it will be loaded again.
Billzabub wrote: Hmmmm . . . . this is sounding more like an "Intro Set" than a "Basic Set." By that I mean everything needed to play in one box, but not necessarily a lighter or more basic version of the rules. Still, I hope that they make it less intimidating w/ limited classes, class options and feats, and maybe leaving out the combat maneuver stuff. We need to keep younger gamers coming into the hobby. Well, a lot of feats and options etc. would be unnecessary for level reasons alone (look at the core feats - this alone will be quite a cut). The four base classes only could work, though. But Combat maneuver could be handled easy enough,imo.
I'm looking forward for this. Even though I'm probably have to wait for the german translation... damn you, nephew. Learn english already. ;)
Hm, I was a little... upset, too, but since Nick apologized how he underestimated the whole business of being a publisher in his forums, I'll just wait and be happy when it finally arrives.
*re-reads the red box's player's manual, whistling slightly out of tone*
I like Tefillin Binding. A lot. If I ever come around to use binders in my pathfinder campaign...
Even though i haven't read the spell, I would like to see this as a class ability - else it sounds too much as a must-have-spell.
EDIT: Ok, that's sounds a little different. Still not sure.
I like the idea of the trance mechanic for flavour reasons alone. Mechanically, I don't think all of the oracles's curses should just work only in a trance. It works for the tongues curse, yes. But it would mean a lot of the other curses are no longer curses but minor inconvieniences...
A Man In Black wrote: It's not hard. It even targets its weak save. I just imagined the tarreasque appearing in Asmodeus palace...
o_Ô
Turin the Mad wrote: Presuming that the "new and improved" GSL would permit them to dip their toes in the 4e pond, I can guesstimate a few potential difficulties that would have to be dealt with.
- Hiring a 4e specific editor - which would have to be some one that could interface very well with Jacobs and all the rest without distracting the primary focus on (now) PRPG Adventure Paths and supplementary materials from the rest of the staff. In effect, an isolated or semi-isolated position, which seems rather contrary to what Lisa and Vic and the rest have fashioned into Paizo.
- Tapping freelance authors who are willing to work with 4e and that don't drive the editor into the local asylum. Or one in Timbuktu...
...
Thank you, I'll dm some CoC in the not-to-near future and now I have my adventure. Well, it won't be 4e, but an asylum in Timbuktu... ^_^
There's no entry specifying the energy drain of the Astradaemon. Like, one level or two (or more) and what DC (It is 20) to get rid of it.
NOOOO! Not the Children!
Ah, wait, they are NPC's, aren't they?
Who cares? ;^P
As a member of the Most Honorous Guild of Doormakers, Windowcarpenters and Gatecrafters I have to stress that use of this item in the boundaries of the city is punishable by guild-law with at least 12 lashes and/or a fine of up to 2000 GM.
;-P
Nice one! I will use this to annoy my players soon... ^_^
Lathiira wrote: I'm trying to find stats for the Statistically Significant Dragon. Where were they at, exactly? Isn't this a 4e one?
Heck, it's ADAMANTINE. It cuts through a diamond with ease (and it's real expensive). By the way, how many hitpoints does a 10' diameter boulder have? 900 RAW (maybe 600 if you adjust for it being a round object and not a 10' by 10' section... Ignoring hardness is only half of the process...
Doug's Workshop wrote: Witness: Chicken is high on my list, as is salmon. Polar bear, not so much. Hmm, tastes like chicken nomnomnom ;)
Kudos. That's heap funny. :D
Kaisoku wrote: While Knowledge skills are nice flavor choices, most of them lack any real mechanical benefit. Meaning, the +2 doesn't really help all that much for most of them. Hmmm, the mechanical benefit is not the only aspect. Knowledge skills help (and lack of them hinders) the PCs in a variety of ways, that can be (and probably should be) more effective than the +2 against getting lost in saving important resources (Sage's fees, or choosing the correct path in a dungeon, for example). In my campaign there is not one evening at the gaming table without a use of knowledge skills... because knowledge is power! ;P Of course, this is not very easy to express in numbers, as it depends on gaming style, but IMHO knowledge skills should be treated as powerful as disable device or at least handle animal... ;)
Quandary wrote: It seems an un-necessary waste of space to list all these separately.
Requiring a thematic link is easy enough. I'd rather have other cool Feats in the space these ones take up...
Well, the way Kaisoku has written it, the list would not take more place than a single feat. I say this would be an acceptable loss of space for the convienience of easier conversion. Better than calling for DM abjucation in a standard feat; this would come up probably every second time someone chooses this feat... and that would suck. ;)
McPoyo wrote: ... but just keep in mind there's a lot of creatures out there with ridiculous CMBs that could easily end encounters by throwing PCs everywhere in return. That's going to be the balance issue.
Also, what point does something like this serve in combat except to deal damage? Seriously?
Well, I would absolutely like to see my PCs being flung around by an enraged hill giant (*makes mental note with an evil DM grin*), but, yeah, this is a balance issue.
To your question, are you serious? I mean, seriously? Getting someone out of the way fast in a spectacular manner is not only useful but fun as heck. I mean, come on. Darth Vader throwing the Emperor into the open core of the reactor. Throwing someone over the bar into the bottle rack. A guards getting thrown down a flight of stairs into the reinforcements. Heck, Yeah! That's what I want to do when I play/I want to see when I DM. Seriously!
What I really would like to see and am much too lazy to make myself:
Change the bardic performance to something like this
Class abilities / Level*
Fascinate / 1
Inspire Courage / 1
Inspire Competence / 3
Suggestion / 6
Inspire Greatness / 9
Inspire Heroics / 15
Mass Suggestion / 18
Deadly Performance / 20
* without minimum rank or maybe half
and for ranks in different perform skills additional abilities…
Perform abilities (Act) Rank
Distraction 1
Sudden Change of Personality* 8
Two Faces* 12
Good Cop, Bad Cop* 14
Perform abilities (Comedy) Rank
Laughing Friend* 1
Etc..
*(I don’t have the slightest Idea)
This would be a giant load of work, of course, as 28 new abilities would be needed (36 (4 per 9 perform skills) – 8 that could be reused for specific perform skills (countersong for 1 rank in Perform (Sing), for example, or distraction as above)). But that are also a tremendous load of options for bard players to explore. Well. You are free to post your suggestions for abillities that are tied to specific perform skills, but, as I have said, I don't see that happen... ;)
Keep the 3.5 bard abilities open for all perform skills (countersong with dance? Why not, you perform an arythmic dance against the mesmerizing song of a harpy or something...) and just add some stylisch and usefull songs/abilities for different perform skills. As the player can only use one perform ability at the time, this would mean options, but should not be too overpowering. *shrugs*
A short table witch ability works with a specific perform skill would be useful, anyway.
EDIT: Just realized, there are only two groups of performance as is... silly me. Still, additional performance related abilities would be nifty and would make the cost for a second (or even third) performance skill worthwhile.
-Archangel- wrote: Something about fighting a druid on a flat tundra A little OT:
This sounds like an interesting encouter. ;)
The first seven threads are all about the monk.
I really would like to see a system like the rogue talents for the abillities of the monk. Instead of Slow fall, Purity of Body (etc.), and Ki Abillities just make it something to choose from. So every level you could choose a new, well, let's call it just "talent" as well. They need to be taken in order (so slow fall 20 before slow fall 30 etc or purity of body before diamond body) and some may need a minimum level as well, but this way every monk would be a little more unique. And it would be relatively easy to give the monk some new options, without hurting backwards compatibility too much (as long as it would be possible to build an exact 3.5 monk + x abilities).
How about make it a Ki mechanic? Like, spending one Ki-point to get a +2 or even +4 bonus to cmb? And/or make one additional maneuver per round? This would make the monk more "maneuverable" and wouldn't take too much place in the monk description.
But this wouldn't be good for low level monks. So... don't know.
Tholas wrote: A very good compilation. Would you mind if I would use your findings on my Wiki Page? No problem, use it.
The abbilities list is not complete, whatsoever, as there were some abilities like dimension hop that were
a) allready discussed to be potentially too powerful or even broken
and
b) just too unique to be made into a general guideline
I think this problem will be adressed when prestige classes are discussed. Not sure if I would prefer a more restrictive approach or not.
selios wrote: So in beta, are these bonus spells or spell like abilities ?
As written, they are spell like abilities. The abilities, that are usable three times a day, are lower level spells all of the time, as far as I know. This would make for a clumsy bonus spell mechanic, IMO.
This is a rough draft of a template to port domains outside the SRD over to PFRPG (beta, as is). As an example, I tried my hand at the void domain, wich can be found here.
Your comments are welcome and sorry me engrissh. ;P
Domain Template:
Usable to ease the transformation of domains outside the SRD into Pathfinder beta rule compatible domains.
1st Level Power: Use a supernatural ability at will as a standard action. These are all examples based on the domains in the Pathfinder beta rules:
a) The spell like ability has a reach of 30 ft., is a ranged touch attack and damages the target for 1d6 Damage +1 per two levels as a cleric. The damage can be any energy, or any physical as a weapon (bashing, cutting, piercing) or even non-lethal. A non lethal damage can have another minor effect on the target for 1 round.
b) Summons a creature as a summon I spell (natures allies or monster, but others from other sources are thinkable as well (summon undead from spell compendium?)). The creature remains until you dismiss it, and you can never have more than one such creature in your service at one time. Once the creature dies or is dismissed, you must wait 1 hour before summoning another. At 6th level, and every four levels thereafter, you may summon a more powerful companion, increasing the summon spell by 1 (II at 6th level, III at 10th, IV at 14th, and V at 18th).
c) You can make a touch attack that damages the target for 1d6 Damage +1 per two levels as a cleric. The damage can be any energy, or any physical as a weapon (bashing, cutting, piercing). If it damages a specific type of monsters (Like constructs or undead) only, the damage is 1d8 +1 per two levels as a cleric.
d) You can make a touch attack that conveys a specific condition to a creature of not more than your hd for one round per caster level, three rounds, or just one round, depending on power. Examples include dazed, sickened, or fatigued. Once a creature has been affected by the touch, it is immune to its effects for 1 day.
e) You can make a touch attack that gives a creature a negative modifier of -2 on a specific roll or lets it bleed for 1d6 damage for one round per caster level. Touching a creature affected by this ability causes the duration to reset but does not stack.
f) You touch a creature and affect him in a positive way. Examples include healing of 1d4 hp + 1 hp per two caster levels, a +2 bonus to some rolls for one round per caster level, an addition to specific roll of half caster level for three rounds or just one round, depending on power. Some weaker powers negate adverse conditions as well. Once a creature has been affected by the touch, it can gain no further benefit from it for 1 day.
g) You can touch a weapon tied to your deity or the domain in a specified way and give it the ability to deal smite damage. For the next 3 rounds, anyone wielding the weapon may add an enhancement bonus on one damage roll equal to 1/2 your caster level for one attack roll. The target must decide to use this ability before rolling to attack. This effect fades after 3 rounds or when the smite attempt is used. Once a wielder has used such a smite attempt, he can gain no further benefit from it for 1 day.
h) The spell-like ability mimics a low-level, personal reach spell and can be sustained for a number of rounds equal to your character level.
i) You can touch a creature and give it the ability to add ½ your caster level for the next 3 rounds to one roll tied to your deity or the domain in a specified way. The target must decide to use this ability before rolling the check. This effect fades after 3 rounds or when the attempt is used. Once a wielder has used such an attempt, he can gain no further benefit from it for 1 day.
j) You gain a +1 specified bonus on a certain type of rolls. This bonus increases by +1 for every 5 levels you possess. As a standard action, you can touch an ally and grant them your bonus for 1 minute. When you use this ability, you lose your bonus granted by this ability for 1 minute.
2nd Level Power:
a) Choose a thematically appropriate first grade spell, even off a spell list other than the cleric’s. The character can use this as a spell like ability once per two caster levels per day.
b) Alternatively, a detect spell of level zero can be used at will.
Used Spells: animate rope, bless, burning hands, cause fear, charm person, comprehend languages, cure light wounds, deathwatch, disguise self, divine favor, enlarge person, entangle, erase, expeditious retreat, inflict light wounds, lesser confusion, magic weapon, magic stone, obscuring mist, produce flame, protection from chaos/evil/good/law*, remove fear, sanctuary, shield of faith, speak with animals, touch of idiocy, true strike
Used Detect Spells: detect magic
4th Level Power: Choose a thematically appropriate second level spell of higher power, even off a spell list other than the cleric’s. The character can use this as a spell like ability once per day.
Used Spells: align weapon*, barkskin, bless weapon, blindness, blur, bull’s strength, calm emotions, death knell, detect thoughts, enthrall, fog cloud, gentle repose, gust of wind, heat metal, hold animal, invisibility, lesser restoration, levitate, magic mouth, remove paralysis, resist energy*, secret page, shatter, shield other, soften earth and stone, spiritual weapon, status, wood shape
8th Level Power: Use a supernatural ability at will as a standard action. These are all examples based on the domains in the Pathfinder beta rules:
a) Aura: You can emit a 30ft diameter aura of a power equal to a low-level level spell (or even a mid-level spell, whose duration is measured in hours normally). It can be sustained for a number of rounds equal to your character level, and these must not be taken consecutive. The effects end normally as soon as a target leaves the area.
b) You are somehow protected, and every creature that attacks you in melee (not with a reach weapon) is affected by 1d6 points of damage +1 per two caster levels. This ability works for a number of rounds equal to your caster level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive. The damage can be any energy, or any physical as a weapon (bashing, cutting, piercing).
c) You can call down a number of bolts of specified energy, or any physical as a weapon (bashing, cutting, piercing) or even non-lethal, per day equal to your caster level. You can call down as many bolts as you want with a single standard action, but no creature can be the target of more than one bolt and no two targets can be more than 30 feet apart. This ability otherwise functions as call lightning. A non lethal damage can have another minor effect on the target for 1 round.
d) You can gain the use of a specific type of feat (combat, meta-magic etc.) for a number of rounds equal to your character level per day, and these must not be taken consecutive. You must meet the prerequisites normally.
e) You can use a targeted spell or even an area effect spell of third or fourth level as a melee touch attack. If you hit, the target (and only the target) is affected by the spell. You can use this ability once per day for every two caster levels you possess for spells with duration immediate; else it’s duration is limited to 1 round per caster level, these rounds do not need to be consecutive, and each attempt to use this ability consumes 1 round of its duration, whether or not the creature succeeds at its save to resist the effect.
f) You can use a specified non-combat spell of mid-level for a number of rounds per day equal to your caster level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
g) You can gain a DR of 5 against a specific material, like adamantine, silver or mithral, for 1 a number of rounds per day equal to your caster level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive.
h) You can cause one melee weapon you possess to gain a specified weapon property for a number of rounds equal to your caster level. These rounds do not need to be consecutive. If the weapon leaves your possession, it loses this ability.
12th Level Power:
a) Choose a thematically appropriate fourth level spell of higher power, even from a spell list other than the clerics. The character can use this as a spell like ability three times per day.
b) Choose a thematically appropriate fifth or even sixth level spell, even from a spell list other than the clerics. The character can use this as a spell like ability once per day.
Used Spells 1/day: break enchantment, chain lightning, commune with nature, control winds, fabricate, flame strike, geas/quest, greater dispel magic, greater glyph of warding, heroes’ feast, ice storm, mass cure light wounds, shadow walk, slay living, spell resistance, true seeing, undeath to death, wall of stone, wall of thorns
Used Spells 3/day: chaos hammer, cone of cold, confusion, dimension door, holy smite, inflict critical wound, order’s wrath, phantasmal killer, unholy blights, wall of fire
16th Level Power:
a) Choose a thematically appropriate sixth level spell, even from a spell list other than the clerics. The character can use this as a spell like ability three times per day.
b) Choose a thematically appropriate seventh level spell, even from a spell list other than the clerics. The character can use this as a spell like ability once per day.
Used Spells 1/day: animate plants, blasphemy, control weather, dictum, destruction, disintegrate, earthquake, fire storm, greater restoration, greater teleport, holy word, insanity, legend lore, power word blind, refuge, repulsion, resurrection, spell turning, sunbeam, symbol of stunning, word of chaos,
Used Spells 3/day: animate objects, antilife shell, blade barrier, create undead, mass bull’s strength, mass invisibility, righteous might
20th Level Power:
a) Choose a thematically appropriate eighth level spell, even from a spell list other than the clerics. The character can use this as a spell like ability three times per day.
b) Choose a thematically appropriate ninth level spell of higher power, even from a spell list other than the clerics. The character can use this as a spell like ability once per day.
Used Spells 1/day: astral projection, crushing hand, disjunction, dominate monster, elemental swarm*, foresight, freedom, gate*, implosion, imprisonment, mass heal, miracle, power word kill, prismatic sphere, shambler, shapechange, storm of vengeance, summon monster IX*, time stop, wail of the banshee, weird
Used Spells 3/day: symbol of death
*These spells are normally restricted to a certain type of creatures, energy, or concept
Created as an example:
VOID Domain (from the Paizo blog)
1st Level Power: Shaking Touch (Su): As a melee touch attack, you can cause a creature to become shaken by fear of the great nothingness between the stars, causing them to take a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks. This effect is a mind influencing fear effect and persists for three rounds. Once a creature has been affected by the touch, it is immune to its effects for 1 day.
2nd Level Power: Feather Fall (Sp): The character can use feather fall as an immediate action once per two caster levels per day.
4th Level Power: Levitate (Sp): The character can use levitate as a spell like ability once per day.
8th Level Power: Aura of Emptiness (Su): You can emit a 30ft diameter aura of diminished reality. Everyone but you must make a will save (DC = 10 +1/2 your class level + your wisdom modifier) or is only able to make a move action as long as inside the aura. This effect ends immediately when the creature leaves the area or the aura expires. The aura can be sustained for a number of rounds equal to your character level, and these must not be taken consecutive.
12th Level Power: Lesser Planar Binding (Sp): The character can use lesser planar binding as a spell like ability once per day.
16th Level Power: Reverse Gravity (Sp): The character can use reverse gravity as a spell like ability once per day.
20th Level Power: Gate (Sp): The character can use gate as a spell like ability once per day.
The concept of the new domains is sound. What I really would like to see would be a template to port over old domains. This would make it a tiny little bit easier to do this. And, yes, it is the worst new thing regarding the backwards compatibility... but still, this is not such a big thing. Just strap the domain spells and abilities from NPCs and add the new domains. Are there really so many written sources where cleric NPCs are not working at all without their old domain spells and abilities? I doubt it.
Quandary wrote: Sure, and I think each class should still include it's own Chart.
You only have to worry about this stuff if you're multi-classing,
and the Classes would just have a short blurb "F:Good/R:Poor/W:Good"
which the Multi-Classing section explains how to combine. Otherwise, you never need to worry about it.
I like that. The short blurb could just stand in the header of the chart under the saving throw... in extra fine print, even, as it is obvious for experienced players by the progression itself.
Snorter wrote: Further thoughts on Cattie-brie...
Puma Gouda
Ocelot Manchego
...
Well, Ocelot Manchego sounds fine as a name for me.Swashbuckling type of character, in the lines of: "My name is Ocelot Manchego. You killed my father. Prepare to die!" ;P
tergiver wrote: For darts, the wizard would have to put a dart into the 'hand' each round as a move action. Couldn't the HotA take the darts from the mages posession as a free action? I think it could, RAW.
A lot of the universities were founded in the high or late middle ages. So, in my opinion, regarding the more open and a little renaissance-like style of PathfinderRPG (or D&D 3.5), it's absolutely necessary to have universities and doctors, magisters and students.
I always thought it would be cool to have monsters like hags more customizable, so instead of having green and night hag and the other one *blushes* (Oh, sea hag, right?), give the hag entry a list of powers to choose from, and get differnet hags this way (Like the ghost template). On second thought, this wouldn't be backwards compatible at all, so... hm...
Jal Dorak wrote: I've used a Matrix several times to my player's enjoyment blablabla... I just tried that, with 4d6 drop lowest, and had this first row:
13 14 12 17 14 14
o_O
I didn't roll any further...
hallucitor wrote: ... and it would be nice to have a few otherwise overlooked ones, including a standard hill giant like cyclops. I always liked the one in "The 7th Voyage of Sinbad". Not really hill giant like... ;)
But, yeah, can't wait, too...
crosswiredmind wrote: The more things change the more they stay the same:
Eric Hansen on a really old thread wrote: WOTC is the Disney of RPG companies ...blablabla... wizards and rogues now. What? Game balance has been destroyed? ...blablablabla... been with us for twenty years+ feel alienated? This sounds SO familiar.
I think no-one ever said that about 4e...
4e feels more like: "Balance, Balance über alles"... ;)
thefishcometh wrote: ka-bump.
Please, a little input? Anybody?
Ok, you asked for it: Sounds a little complicated. ^_^
There's a variant rule on sean's homepage. Check it out.
Pax Veritas wrote: ..., and according to many of us, 4e could be known as 4i - the illegitimate edition.
Teehee. That made me giggle like a little girl.
As a reader of Monte's Journal, I see slim chances of him doing something more substantial to support pathfinder than giving good advice to Jason. He's moved on from game designer to other pursuits (writing fiction and non-fiction books). But maybe... sometime in the future... well, hope dies last.
Samnell wrote: I see later on that racial bonuses are added to the list of bonuses that usually stack, but I'm at a loss as to why. Do we foresee lots of PCs with multiple races? Or is there a plan that templates will be granting racial bonuses now? Well, they do already, look at the vampire template under skills, for example.
IMO, there's a flaw in this comparison. Of course, dwarves get the better fighting boni, but the skill focus and the free choice of the favored class is better for a more skill oriented character like a rogue or bard. And immunity to sleep and +2 vs. enchantment is something that's not too bad, too.
Papa-DRB wrote: Argh... The one chapter per file only has the back cover, but the other one is fine, including the web-enhancement.
-- david
papa.DRB
Yeah, I noticed the small file size and switched... 89% AAAND Done, bye
b j wrote: As for the challenge rating thing, a third level Kobold warrior should knock the snot out of a 1st level fighter.
Well, warrior isn't really the best choice for a kobold to begin with... And if you look at a 1st level fighter with 20 STR - I don't think a 3rd level kobold warrior would be able to stand up against him one on one.
I don't know... maybe it really shouldn't, but on the other hand, wouldn't that make the mystic theurge suck? In 3.5 I always found this prestige class to be somewhat in the middle of power (aka as balanced), but without the domain powers and school powers in PFRPG...
The swashbuckler needs some more love! Really, he is just like an ordinary (3.5) fighter with ... with almost no interesting class features but the one were you get the int bonus to hit. Almost everything else could be emulated with fighter feats and sometimes you could even do better that way... that's a really underpowered class, all in all. IMHO.
edit: or was it int bonus to damage? Even worse that way...
Dragonchess Player wrote: Fighter 2/Evoker 5/Eldritch Knight 7 would make more sense, IMO (BAB +11, CL 11). Weapon Specialization isn't worth losing 6th level spells! Evoker 6/Eldritch Knight 6 will have slightly better saves, but that's just a mechanical artifact of the 3.x level progression (i.e., rules instead of flavor). Um, +9 +3 +6 (F2E5EK7) or +7 +4 +7 (E6EK6)? There is one set of saving throws better? Different, ok, but better?
|