See Dick buy 4e.
See Dick love 4e.
See Dick tell everyone who doesn't like 4e that he's an irrational jackass.
Don't be a Dick.
Sorry, couldn't resist :)
See Dick buy 4e.
See Dick love 4e.
See Dick tell everyone who doesn't like 4e that he's an irrational jackass.Don't be a Dick.
Sorry, couldn't resist :)
I was waiting for the comeback... :P
I was waiting for the comeback... :P
Always there to help :P
And sorry about the double post -- stupid computer!!
Man, Vomit Guy used to be all about the fans...and the vomit.
He's getting way too political.I guess having a mortgage and a kid on the way can really change a man.
As Mr. Guy's legal counsel I can clearly state that he will NOT be making an appearance in this thread. Mr. Guy has a unique form of humorous dialogue which has proven too much for the delicate constitutions of some of the residents of these message boards, hereinafter referred to as The Complaintiffs. In the interest of The Complaintiffs safety, as well as the well-being of their mental faculties, Mr. Guy will remain in exile in the Off Topic section of the aforementioned boards.Dead Horse has already appeared.
Can Vomit Guy be far behind?
Heeeereee I comeeee to save the Dayyyyyyyyy!!!!!
Edit: Whoops, I slipped on something as I was saying that. Personal hazard, I guess.
Man, Vomit Guy used to be all about the fans...and the vomit.
He's getting way too political.I guess having a mortgage and a kid on the way can really change a man.
As Mr. Guy's legal counsel I can clearly state that he will NOT be making an appearance in this thread. Mr. Guy has a unique form of humorous dialogue which has proven too much for the delicate constitutions of some of the residents of these message boards, hereinafter referred to as The Complaintiffs. In the interest of The Complaintiffs safety, as well as the well-being of their mental faculties, Mr. Guy will remain in exile in the Off Topic section of the aforementioned boards.Dead Horse has already appeared.
Can Vomit Guy be far behind?
Heeeereee I comeeee to save the Dayyyyyyyyy!!!!!
Edit: Whoops, I slipped on something as I was saying that. Personal hazard, I guess.
As Mr. Guy's legal counsel, please be aware that he is in no way liable for any injuries which may or may not be sustained as a result of your own willful interaction with something that may or may not have come from his stomach.
Honestly, I don't really care if some people want to stick with the clunkier system of 3.5 Just look at the thread on Pathfinder Skills, those skills are a mess compared to the 4E list.
What bothers me is that there may be some people who might have an interest in 4E who look at all of the whining about it here on the Paizo forums and end up not checking it out for themselves.
And if Paizo continues to expend their resources and products on 3.5, then that's just less product I will purchase from them. I said time and time again that the anti-4E camp was just a vocal minority and the fact that the 4E set has been on Amazons best seller list for a while now has proven me right. I'm going to be signing up for Goodman Game's 4th Edition Dungeon Crawl Classics and as they are being released very soon. We are also playing Keep on the Shadowfell and will continue with the other WotC modules. If Paizo doesn't want to focus on it, that doesn't affect me.
Here we have an excellent example of how to not win over converts.
Honestly, I don't really care if some people want to stick with the clunkier system of 3.5 Just look at the thread on Pathfinder Skills, those skills are a mess compared to the 4E list.
What bothers me is that there may be some people who might have an interest in 4E who look at all of the whining about it here on the Paizo forums and end up not checking it out for themselves.
And if Paizo continues to expend their resources and products on 3.5, then that's just less product I will purchase from them. I said time and time again that the anti-4E camp was just a vocal minority and the fact that the 4E set has been on Amazons best seller list for a while now has proven me right. I'm going to be signing up for Goodman Game's 4th Edition Dungeon Crawl Classics and as they are being released very soon. We are also playing Keep on the Shadowfell and will continue with the other WotC modules. If Paizo doesn't want to focus on it, that doesn't affect me.
Here we have an excellent example of how to not win over converts.
Yeah, that kind of makes me want to not play 4e or even suggest to anyone new to the game to play 4e.
Yeah, that kind of makes me want to not play 4e or even suggest to anyone new to the game to play 4e.Honestly, I don't really care if some people want to stick with the clunkier system of 3.5 Just look at the thread on Pathfinder Skills, those skills are a mess compared to the 4E list.
What bothers me is that there may be some people who might have an interest in 4E who look at all of the whining about it here on the Paizo forums and end up not checking it out for themselves.
And if Paizo continues to expend their resources and products on 3.5, then that's just less product I will purchase from them. I said time and time again that the anti-4E camp was just a vocal minority and the fact that the 4E set has been on Amazons best seller list for a while now has proven me right. I'm going to be signing up for Goodman Game's 4th Edition Dungeon Crawl Classics and as they are being released very soon. We are also playing Keep on the Shadowfell and will continue with the other WotC modules. If Paizo doesn't want to focus on it, that doesn't affect me.
Here we have an excellent example of how to not win over converts.
Well... he's right.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Not really. Whether or not 4e is on the "best seller lists" or not is no reflection of how well the Pathfinder RPG will do. Paizo is not Wizards of the Coast, and can thrive on a much smaller piece of the pie.
We are focusing on a version of the game we can keep in print at our own pace and serving a cohort of the customer base who are interested in keeping up with the old edition.
By necessity, there will be customers who wish to convert exclusively to fourth edition, and who will as a result purchase fewer Paizo products than they previously did.
I'm sorry about that and I wish it wasn't the case, but Wizards of the Coast has decided that we cannot support both systems within the same product line.
Given that we have to choose, we're picking the one that allows us to build on our professional experience, on many traditions of the game that we personally value, and that can't be yanked out from under us.
That said, if generating monsters is as simple as it is made out to be for 4e, we expect that a large number of people will keep following Pathfinder and our other adventures, converting stuff on the fly, or simply plundering our products for ideas to use in their games of any edition.
We'd love to be able to do that officially, but we're pleased to offer a place for 4e Pathfinder fans to share ideas.
It's not about "beating" fourth editon. It's about offering continued support for people who don't feel like changing, and who might be open to small improvements while we go to the trouble of reprinting the rules.
YMMV on what constitutes a "small improvement," but that's in part what the open playtest is for.
The sniping is getting worse. Misinformation, disinformation, 4evil, kewl, munckin, creatively-challenged, MMORPG, sheeple, yada, yada, yada.
The signal to noise ratio is dropping rapidly. Any civil dialogue is drowned out quickly.
It seems that this board in unwanted by the Paizo community so why not just shut it down?
Hey CWM, I think you do an excellent job of supporting the 4e banner here at Paizo's boards. I think if you were less interested you would have left for other boards long ago. I know I did when I got a few slams on other boards, I just don't have a lot of argumentitiveness in me :)
I personally think that even if they shut down the 4e boards you would still want to share your 4e opinions, and I think that is healthy for the community at large, no matter what standard they fight under. It is the nature of humans to argue amongst ourselves, and the Internet gives people a tool to do so with little danger of the dialoge escalating into physical violence. Thus, jackanapery escalates at a ridiculous pace.
Hang in there, don't give up the good fight. I value your opinions, and although I have no plans of buying 4e until I can get my grubby hands on a cheap second-hand edition, that doesn't mean that I don't want to explore the threads discussing the new mechanics and hear other people's informed opinions about it. Remember that the people fliging vitriol are a vocal minority, and that once the furor of the 'slaying' of 3.5 dies down and its proponents remember that there is a viable offshoot being nurtured at this very company your input on 4e will be highly valued.
OK ...rant over ..off to check the PbPs
Given that we have to choose, we're picking the one that allows us to build on our professional experience, on many traditions of the game that we personally value, and that can't be yanked out from under us. That said, if generating monsters is as simple as it is made out to be for 4e, we expect that a large number of people will keep following Pathfinder and our other adventures, converting stuff on the fly, or simply plundering our products for ideas to use in their games of any edition.
Well I gotta' tell you I think you guys are doing exactly what you should. I'm super excited about 4e and all, but am in my heart a pure Pathfinder fan. You guys tell the kind of stories that really deserve telling and do a great service to the literary traditions you pay homage to. That's what I buy into. That and the fact that here we are talking with one of the head guys making this stuff when he should be getting his four hours of sleep. You guys are the best.
Looking forward to buying most of the stuff that's coming out, which is by far a much better succession of hits with me than I've seen from most other companies out there. You do good work.
I'm sorry about that and I wish it wasn't the case, but Wizards of the Coast has decided that we cannot support both systems within the same product line.
This makes a lot of sense to me. The public at large has not even seen the GSL yet, but it's clear that Wizards is playing hardball.
That said, if generating monsters is as simple as it is made out to be for 4e, we expect that a large number of people will keep following Pathfinder and our other adventures, converting stuff on the fly, or simply plundering our products for ideas to use in their games of any edition.
I certainly think it's that easy. I opted out of Pathfinder for Curse of the Crimson Throne because I didn't need more 3.5 stuff, but I'm contemplating getting back in for Second Darkness because I have loved every AP you've ever published and converting to 4e does not seem that hard.
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The sniping is getting worse. Misinformation, disinformation, 4evil, kewl, munckin, creatively-challenged, MMORPG, sheeple, yada, yada, yada.
The signal to noise ratio is dropping rapidly. Any civil dialogue is drowned out quickly.
It seems that this board in unwanted by the Paizo community so why not just shut it down?
With all due respect crosswiredmind, responding the sniping is actually reinforcing to the snipers. They snipe, you complain, and then they smile since they "got you". The best thing is to simply ignore it. When people stop responding their posts, stop "quoting" them, refuting them, etc. They'll soon be bored and go away.
The game is released.
People don't need you to convince them 4e is good. Nor do you need to hear them convince you 4e is bad. Ignore it.
This sub-board is now for 4E. period.
So...anyone else find the cleaving adjacent to target rather than adjacent to attacker a bit wonky? I'll think that will be changed in my games at least.
Respectfully, in context the cleave power makes perfect sense. The description of the power indicates that you are cleaving THROUGH the target and hitting something else. I think it makes a lot of sense that the something else you hit should be adjacent to the target given that description of the power.
- Ashavan
It's welcome to me, because I'd like to have a place to discuss 4E and the posters at the WotC forums are increasingly becoming a bunch of jackasses.
I'm brand new to Paizo. Thinking about downloading the Alpha because I am interested in Pathfinder. I'm also going to be playing 4E now and again I suspect.
My initial impression is that the posters here may be close (but not quite) as bad as the WotC posters when it comes to 3.5E v. 4E. If that bears true, my stay here will be short indeed.
I'll hang around for a few days and see how it goes. Surely there's got to be some place on the web where you've got people mature enough to discuss 3.X and 4E without sniping.
Anyway, I hope to learn what I can about Pathfinder in the meantime.
It's welcome to me, because I'd like to have a place to discuss 4E and the posters at the WotC forums are increasingly becoming a bunch of jackasses.
I'm brand new to Paizo. Thinking about downloading the Alpha because I am interested in Pathfinder. I'm also going to be playing 4E now and again I suspect.
My initial impression is that the posters here may be close (but not quite) as bad as the WotC posters when it comes to 3.5E v. 4E. If that bears true, my stay here will be short indeed.
I'll hang around for a few days and see how it goes. Surely there's got to be some place on the web where you've got people mature enough to discuss 3.X and 4E without sniping.
Anyway, I hope to learn what I can about Pathfinder in the meantime.
Welcome Steerpike! There is a lot of angry posting right now, but I think if you can tough it out it will probably have spent itself by July. Before the 4e release everyone was pretty well playing nicely amongst themselves, but the official 'death' of WotC-supported 3.5V has stirred up a lot of the old hard feelings. Don't worry, there are plenty of nice folks about, and there is a lot of ongoing discussion about all the rules sets.
It's welcome to me, because I'd like to have a place to discuss 4E and the posters at the WotC forums are increasingly becoming a bunch of jackasses.
I'm brand new to Paizo. Thinking about downloading the Alpha because I am interested in Pathfinder. I'm also going to be playing 4E now and again I suspect.
My initial impression is that the posters here may be close (but not quite) as bad as the WotC posters when it comes to 3.5E v. 4E. If that bears true, my stay here will be short indeed.
I'll hang around for a few days and see how it goes. Surely there's got to be some place on the web where you've got people mature enough to discuss 3.X and 4E without sniping.
Anyway, I hope to learn what I can about Pathfinder in the meantime.
When you find that place, please let me know. These forums were, at one time, the most friendly gaming forums on the interwebs. It's only the great 3.5 vs 4e (one side must win!) debate that has turned them into an unpleasant place.
For those of us who like both systems, it can be difficult at times. Sadly EnWorld is just as bad, or was last I checked. I too am hoping for a return of civility and there are some posters here who make an effort to keep the discussions from crossing the line too often.
I'm giving it another chance and I hope you do the same. Maybe together we can help keep the civil conversations going!
- Ashavan
Thank you, Patrick. I'm really looking forward to it. I thumbed through some Pathfinder products at my local gaming store the other day, and I was quite impressed with the quality and content. Looks to me like Paizo may be the place to be!
I'm giving it another chance and I hope you do the same. Maybe together we can help keep the civil conversations going!
- Ashavan
Thanks, Ashavan. I'm definitely going to give it a shot.
Respectfully, in context the cleave power makes perfect sense. The description of the power indicates that you are cleaving THROUGH the target and hitting something else. I think it makes a lot of sense that the something else you hit should be adjacent to the target given that description of the power.
- Ashavan
Yeah I think if you wanted it to be as realistic as possible it would have to be cleave through the target to anther target adjacent to both the target and the attacker. But that would limit it's tactical usability and it's cool factor (in addition to the built in limit of not being a full damage attack on the second target) so I think they made a compromise that favored some playability with some realism mixed in.
Contributor
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Ashavan, Steerpike, I'm with you guys. It's been a lot harder lately to enjoy these boards as a person who likes both 4E and Pathfinder. I've been sticking it out because I believe that things will calm down and improve. And actually, I think it's already starting to get better. I'm sure there will still be edition wars until the end of time, but I haven't felt insulted as often in the last two days as I did the two days before that. Maybe it's just because people are at work or I've gotten better at avoiding the threads that are most inflamed, but I'm holding out hope.
I recommend checking out the Pathfinder Iconic 4E conversion thread, that one made me feel better that there is room for us all here.
I want to convert an AP to 4E and run it... I may start with Savage Tide, since I've wanted to run it for a long time, but we'll see. Once I get going (which may be a little while) I'll post conversion notes here. Part of what I want to test is, can I convert it almost on the fly, with say, less than 2 hours of prep time per session.
But first we need to finish the Age of Worms...
Ashavan, Steerpike, I'm with you guys. It's been a lot harder lately to enjoy these boards as a person who likes both 4E and Pathfinder.You could try my solution - nervous breakdown every other Thursday followed by a night of drunken debauchery.
This is my solution, too. I just don't know to what problem. Whatever it is, I make sure that it's solved regularly.
Well... he's right.
Maybe I'll agree on some of the stuff. He said it in a real jack-ass way. So I would rather not play 4e on the off chance I have to interact with people like him.
For me he is worse than the 3.5 "whiners" for getting me to play 4e.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Maybe I'll agree on some of the stuff. He said it in a real jack-ass way. So I would rather not play 4e on the off chance I have to interact with people like him.
That's how I tend to feel about the people that are not converting to 4e - but then I have enough perspective to think of all the cool people that I like and respect that are sticking with 3.5/PFRPG and that makes it easier to tolerate the occassional a!#$$$@ who refers to me as a "dipshit" because they don't like 4e.
Smurf.
(Double posted.)
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Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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That's how I tend to feel about the people that are not converting to 4e - but then I have enough perspective to think of all the cool people that I like and respect that are sticking with 3.5/PFRPG and that makes it easier to tolerate the occassional a&&#@!% who refers to me as a "dipshit" because they don't like 4e.I think that thread's been locked now, Sebastian.
I think you're right, Charles. Postmonster has good timing, too.
You know, I reacted to the "dipsh*t" comment with some sarcastic remarks that probably didn't help things, so for that I apologize. I've said what I needed to say, and now I'm going to look forward to a LOT of gaming this summer. This, alone, makes me happy.
I also retract my first post in this thread...I look forward to a 4e posts on this subboard that discuss 4e in an intelligent and thought-provoking way, as I have come to expect from many, many members of this community.
That's how I tend to feel about the people that are not converting to 4e - but then I have enough perspective to think of all the cool people that I like and respect that are sticking with 3.5/PFRPG and that makes it easier to tolerate the occassional a!##%!# who refers to me as a "dipshit" because they don't like 4e.
Maybe I'll agree on some of the stuff. He said it in a real jack-ass way. So I would rather not play 4e on the off chance I have to interact with people like him.
Yeah, I'm just bouncing side from side, trying to remind people that if you say something badly people are less likely to agree with you and are in fact more likely to just go in the opposite direction of what that poster was advocating.
I did say the same thing to pro-3.5 posters a few months back, although that had mixed results.
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Ashavan, Steerpike, I'm with you guys. It's been a lot harder lately to enjoy these boards as a person who likes both 4E and Pathfinder.You could try my solution - nervous breakdown every other Thursday followed by a night of drunken debauchery.Alright, I'll admit the 'drunken debauchery' does sound good ...
But I might be too old for a regular, every-other-weekly bout of it!!
Would it be alright if I just indulged, say, once a month or two??
Seriously, I still expect (hope) that the unpleasantness will die down here faster than it will elsewhere.
Hang in.
You could try non-drunken debauchery, but that takes much more effort and skill (or so I've been told).
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I do admit that I find it a little odd that there's even still a 4e board here at all. 4e is, quite simply, a competitor to Paizo's products. There's no specific True20 or Hackmaster or Castles & Crusades boards, for example, just an "Other Games" one.
I suppose it's still here out of hope that the GSL won't be too draconian in what it will allow the company to do, but other than that, honestly, what reason do they have, from a business POV, to keep the board around? I suppose it's a balancing act between potential sales to 4e players vs. cost of keeping the board active, both in terms of server issues and PR issues with all the hatred being slung around from all sides.
Just because someone becomes a lawyer instead of a doctor doesn't mean their parents stop supporting them. Paizo still loves their 4e children and this board is just another example of that.
On that note, remind Papa Jacobs that I need the car this Friday night.
I just want to make sure I understand the accepted definition of ‘dick’.
dick: (noun) an individual who does not share your personal opinion
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I do admit that I find it a little odd that there's even still a 4e board here at all. 4e is, quite simply, a competitor to Paizo's products. There's no specific True20 or Hackmaster or Castles & Crusades boards, for example, just an "Other Games" one.
When Blue Rose / True 20 grows to be as large as 4th Edition, it will probably get its own board, too.
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I just want to make sure I understand the accepted definition of ‘dick’.
dick: (noun) an individual who does not share your personal opinion
That's not my definition, CF. You need to add "arrogant" or "disrespectful" in there somewhere. Otherwise, "Don't be a dick" would translate to "Don't ever disagree with one another." Which isn't the intent at all.
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Just because someone becomes a lawyer instead of a doctor doesn't mean their parents stop supporting them. Paizo still loves their 4e children and this board is just another example of that.
Bah, you're talking disownment there.
No child of mine's going to become a money grubbing lawyer...grumble grumble, you kids get off my lawn...
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I just want to make sure I understand the accepted definition of ‘dick’.
dick: (noun) an individual who does not share your personal opinion
I think it's more a person who is purposefully verbally abusive toward you because you don't share their opinion.
Those to whom this definition usually applies also tend to be antagonistic in most regards (as can typically be verified by a quick search of their recent posts, all of which are usually argumentative and caustic, no matter the subject).
Furthermore, their general disregard toward the feelings or passions of others often translates into an objectively-observable enjoyment in another's discomfort, accompanied with the recruitment of others to their cause or anticause.
That's not my definition, CF. You need to add "arrogant" or "disrespectful" in there somewhere.
I think it's more a person who is purposefully verbally abusive toward you because you don't share their opinion.
Are you sure? It seems to me there are a lot of pots and kettles arguing over which is blacker.
I do admit that I find it a little odd that there's even still a 4e board here at all. 4e is, quite simply, a competitor to Paizo's products.
Except that Paizo will sell every product WotC puts out and would love to have as much market share of those products as possible.
Furthermore they can possibly increase their sales of things like Pathfinder if some good fan supported conversions come about**).
**Though Gary working on the 'more co-operative elements of the website' Vic hinted at would really help in this department - we need some way to better organize our ideas if really good full fledged conversions are to bare fruit.
Just because someone becomes a lawyer instead of a doctor doesn't mean their parents stop supporting them.I'm not so sure about that. I once told my parents I was thinking of going to law school. After they tried to change the locks without telling me, I dropped it.
Are you sure they didn't try to change the locks because of your being undead?
I think someone broke one of MisterSlanky's windows! Scat!