The key to constructive criticism is to start with the positive, go to what needs work, then end with the positive. And we've been deluging with the negative.
So! Let's stop advocating and arguing and whinging! (You can do that to your heart's content on other threads.)
What went right with Alpha 3?
The Bard gets some powerful offensive abilities, allowing him to contribute even in smaller, less melee-heavy teams!
Monks get to make combat maneuvers work at all!
Sorcerers get depserately-needed extra spells!
Energy drain. I like the energy drain.
Barbarian rage. I like the expanded options.
New bard performances. I like giving him more options.
Spell-like and supernatural abilities in place of domain spells. Opens up the possibility to take feats to modify them too like Quicken Spell-like Ability.
Spell-like abilities for wizards based on school. I like the concept. Not sure if I like them being already defined. I think I might prefer it if the PC got to choose a similarly-leveled spell of the particular school, and periodically got the chance to swap them out.
Size bonuses/penalties for combat maneuvers reeled in, significantly. While, in principle, I think the 3.5 bonuses are good ones from a reality stand-point (grappling a giant SHOULD be very hard for a medium creature), I think the ones in PF and based on the standard attack/AC scale will be better for gameplay.
I also really like that Paizo had the sheer balls to take on this project and run with it in the face of the WotC 4e juggernaut.
But of course that's not really the point of this thread. I just had to say it.
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I love barbarian rage abilities. One Snorri Bloodtongue of the Land of the Linnorm Kings has already made an appearance in my game. Can you guess which ability he had? ;)
I also love the sorcerer bloodlines. The moment I read them, I had an image in my head of an all sorcerer group, each with a different bloodline. They haven't shown up yet, but they will, oh yes.
I also like that hitpoints were standardized with BAB progression, and CMB has worked out to be a fairly simple and elegant mechanic, as well. There was even, dare I say it, grappling last night, and it didn't end in real life tears and teeth gnashing.
So good job, Mr. Buhlman, and thanks for the hard work! I'm really looking forward to August.
The Core Classes are actually all worth something. Prestige Classes aren't an automatic choice for PCs, but an option that they have to debate carefully.
This, right here, sums it up quite nicely for me.
I like how every class has something big to look forward to at every level. I've never understood why some classes have "Dead" levels.
My group is loving R3 so far--and our new PF game will feature the new bard and possibly the ranger. The "Running Pathfinder" section is superb. On the same night that I ran Keep on the Shadowfell (did NOT feel like D&D at all to me!), I thank the gods of Golarion for R3.
I'll be glad to post our results with the R3 classes.
There just to much done right to point it all out.
Ummm........Races and Druid are nice. Thats about it really.
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The final (Alpha) version of sorcerer and bard make me happy in my pants. Perhaps that was too much information.
Jason, you're going to be at GenCon, right? My gaming club is coming up this year, and we'd really like to take you out for a round or eight. Pathfinder saved d20 for a lot of us, and if nothing else, we'd like a chance to thank you in person.
Jeremy Puckett
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I'm updating a 3.5 Orc Ranger to Pathfinder right now, and I just realized that Jason changed it so that when a Ranger gains a new Favored Enemy, the can choose any of their previous favored enemies or the new one to increase. That's awesome! No more picking Dragon at 1st level and having to wait ten to twelve levels before you actually see it pay off! Finally a reason to blow the first FE on Humanoid (orc)!
Other stuff I dig:
1. Bravery as a automatic Fighter ability. Very sensible. In fact, as a lifelong fan of the fighter, I can say that I absolutely love every single thing Jason did to the old warhorse. Though in my campaign we'll be experimenting with having weapon training grant +1d6 damage rather than +1 damage.
2. Sorcerer no longer being a vast hole of suck. Someone might eventually play on in my group! It'd be a first!
3. Channel Positive Energy replacing Turn Undead. Now one of the cleric's key abilities isn't Utterly Useless in many adventures...and might be all spent by the time an undead critter shows up!
4. Replacing Animal Companions, Special Mounts and Familiars with alternate abilities that don't require you to keep track of a pet in combat. Thank you!
5. Alter Self is no longer hideously broken (I have one player who has caused me to HATE this spell with his gross abuse of it, all because of some obscure stupid race of crab men in some book that had a +9 natural armor bonus).
6. XP System no longer punishes the DM for having a Player who misses enough sessions to drop behind the rest of the party in level (That the old system forced the DM to do more work because of a player's inconsiderate behavior was a major sore point for me).
7. Combat Maneuvers. Finally, a system that won't force us to pull out the book every single time someone says "I grab him."
8. The Domains are far less confusing an awkward to use than the old system.
I'm just glad you keep your cool, stand your ground on the things that you believe are right, but are willing to give when you see a really good idea.
The new fighter is turning out to be great.
Several other things as well... thank you for your efforts Jason and inviting us to participate.
All the classes are moving in the right direction. More balanced but each with a district flavor to it.
As a player I'm very interest in the new bard, it really surprised me.
Likewise races also feel more balanced, two favored classes and two ability bonuses means each race has far more options available when it comes to race/class combos. Half-orc/sorcerer is now a viable combination.
The new combat feats are interesting, I'd like to see them expanded further.
Jason and everyone over at Paizo's should be proud, their doing a great job.
Most SoDs toned down in power to being massive damage effects. Its good for the game.
Everything except this ^^^ Trip, and the nuclear bard.
(sorry I couldn't pass up fighing the propaganda)1. Giving a reason to love the half-orc again!
2. Soreror's ... Sir, it really is a brilliant design.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 4
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- Backwards-Compatibility is achieved.
- Races are interesting and balanced.
- Poison and Disease changes are genius.
- CMB is a very clean system
- Sorcerer bloodlines are quite good.
- I'm very happy with the ranger.
- The whole fact that the user community has access to the ongoing design. That all by itself is worthy of praise.
- giving people who want to play lower-magic, slower advancement, etc. the tools to do so.
Seriously, Jason and crew are doing right by me. I'm thrilled to be ABLE to offer input.
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Things that have thrilled me
- Racial attributes
- Favored class bonus
- Fighter and Ranger re-writes
- Unlimited Orisons and Cantrips
- 'X' Bond abilities for classes
- CMB
- Grapple!
- Magic Item Creation while adventuring
- Flat XP system
- Remove Disease and Neutralize Poison spells
There are some real diamonds in the Alpha ... I look forward to future polishing...
I really loved all the new bardic knowledge-based abilities, which really bring bards into their own, not just as singers and performers, but also as skilled jacks of all trades (with a class ability to match)!
Well done Jason.
With the exception of Damage Reduction, which I'm not sure about yet, I like what I saw.
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Incorporating the Shining Blade of Heironeous into the base Paladin class, thus reducing multi-classing, and saving DMs everywhere from being pestered with queries of "Can I have a Shining Mace of Pelor?", "Can I have a Shining Cudgel of Cuthbert?", "Can I have a Shining Nun-Chuks of Zuoken?"....etc....
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There are a number of things I like A LOT.
First, is the added playbility for the core races and classes. I can't even begin to describe how frustrating it was in 3.5 that we had reached a point that noone took a base race anymore and base classes were only kept long enough to spring into a Prestige Class or just cherry picked along the way to a 5 class/3 prestige class build.
Second, I love what you have done with spells like Polymorph. The one thing we haven't seen yet that I am very anxious for in the beta is how you have modified the Summon Monster spells as well as the Planar Ally/Binding and Gate spells. IMHO the Summon Monster tree of spells are too underpowered at high levels, and the Planar Ally/Binding Spells are probably overpowered. I hope there is a decent compromise between the two.
Third, the Bard is freaking awesome. I've had very few players who liked playing a Bard because ALL of their abilities were support abilities. Now they actually have some offense. Very nice.
Fourth, the Ranger is just great. Love the changes here.
Fifth, I love the variation on the point buy system for Ability Score generation. I've always used point buy over dice rolling, but this point purchase system is much easier to explain how to do to new players.
Sixth, the complete product is finally coming together and it is AWESOME. I am seriously considering buying copies of the beta for all my friends to get them hooked in. When the hardcover releases next summer, I almost guarantee I will be buying multiple copies.
Seventh, just to say it again, you guys ROCK!!!!! Thank you so much for having the guts to run with this thing. What you have done with PFRPG is what 4e should have been. That is to say a natural evolution of the 3.5 rule set instead of a complete overhaul accompanied by the worst PR campaign in the history of the gaming industry.
You and the rest of the guys at Paizo doing that rendition of the "Sexual Chocolate" scene from the movie Comming to America was downright brilliant.
...wait. That might have not been you guys.
Well besides that the Alpha looks pretty good thusfar, and all the changes (minus the skills, but I'm mostly alone on that) have been in the right direction.
For clarification on the Sexual Chocolate thing...Put your hands together for Mr Randy Watson. YeaYAW!
I really like the Backwards compatabilty and the classes and races are great
My only major flaw is that it seems that the game is going "soft" on the players examples
Alot of extra healing (Channel Enegery)
SOD have been nerfed
Mages Disjunction Nerfed
Easier on the raise deads and reserection (i like this one)
I am struggling to find something I don't like.
That either means it is all good work or I am easily pleased :-)
Especially happy with the improvements to the Sorcerer since Alpha 2.
I'm liking the Fighter Bravery too, Rage points, Sorcerer bloodlines, Cleric Domains and pretty much all the little "tweaks" on classes and pc races that have been long overdue...
The setting rocks too!
Loving the sorcerer bonus spells, AND the monk maneuvre training. Their really really good moves.
In general I love most of what Paizo and Jason have done with the rules. I literally have two complaints and a stream of kudos.
Big fan of the skill system and CMB.
I like the fact that just reading this thread showed me something cool that I missed - fighter bravery. I skipped over fighter on my way to monk and ranger and was too busy having nerdgasms to go back and look for other changes.
The monk's maneuver training is the greatest thing since pizza.
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- Barbarian, fighter, monk, ranger, rogue, sorcerer & wizard are now more customizable right in the base rules. (I'd like to see this extended to bard, cleric, druid & paladin.)
- Unlimited orisons and cantrips per day. (I'd like to see a feat that extends this to 1st level spells.)
- More hit points and feats for everyone.
- Simplified skill system.
- No more 100 gp pearls for identify.
- Turn Undead Changes
- CMB
- Death at -Constitution instead of -10
- Skill system
- Most class changes
- Barbarian, fighter, monk, ranger, rogue, sorcerer & wizard are now more customizable right in the base rules. (I'd like to see this extended to bard, cleric, druid & paladin.)
- Unlimited orisons and cantrips per day. (I'd like to see a feat that extends this to 1st level spells.)
- More hit points and feats for everyone.
- Simplified skill system.
- No more 100 gp pearls for identify.
Cleric are still customizable with their domains.
For bards a good fix for this is to give different performance styles he can specialize, so each can give a slightly different bonus to his various songs/performances.With druid a greater connection to a particular type of animal my have some influence on his ablities (Druid who like polar bears could shape change into one, get a better bonus with dealing with them, has a small amount of cold resistance etc.)
I'm not sure how to help the Paladin though, perhaps different auras of protection.
Still so far the classes look good, both more interesting and better balanced, although there is still some issues with balance.
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*Jason B-man got into writing for RPGS.
*Paizo trusted him to undertake this project.
Enough with the brown-nosing here...
*The respect given to feedback that the community gives is amazing.
*The way the classes were handled and beefed up to make them more than a stepping stone to prestige.
*The beautifully laid out and well put together look of an Alpha release is just bloody amazing. Most companies can't put together a final product that looks as good.
*The ability Paizo has to draw the biggest names in the industry to them even in their status as a 3rd party publisher says alot about the company in particular (So what? I brown-nosed so more. They deserve it!).
Thank you, JB!
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Cleric are still customizable with their domains.
Yes, they're just not that much more customizable over 3.5.
For bards a good fix for this is to give different performance styles he can specialize, so each can give a slightly different bonus to his various songs/performances.
With druid a greater connection to a particular type of animal my have some influence on his ablities (Druid who like polar bears could shape change into one, get a better bonus with dealing with them, has a small amount of cold resistance etc.)
I'm not sure how to help the Paladin though, perhaps different auras of protection.
The easiest thing for all of these classes, is to do what was done with several of the customizable classes I listed -- give them some kind of "bonus feat" / "class talent" slots at certain levels, and give each of them a list of good class-specific bonus feats/talents to let them choose from.
If you have to "take away" some of the current class abilities and move them into the bonus feat / class talent list, so be it.
The only advantage to having the class abilities be fixed ("on rails") throughout the career of the character is those classes are easier for new players (most of their choices are already made). Of course, this is where "class packages" at for each class come in handy.
Oops I'm a little off topic for this thread.