|
Am I reading into it too closely to spot a couple in "The Snows of Summer" as well?
** spoiler omitted **
Yep, there's lots of "just there" folks like that scattered all over the setting. The couple working at the museum in the Magnimar book come to mind. (the same book that introduced Ayavah, who we really need to learn more about!)
Wait, I think there's a possible couple and dark parallel to the one in Shackled Hut in the Irrisen book itself. I remember something about one of them running na opera house...
@Mikaze: My IRL Gaming Group had a Setting's-African-Equavalent-Ethnicity Human Ranger(Guide) who was our first Casualty in a Horror Movie Style Game. He was played by the GM's Gay Brother. It was funny simply for the Trope Jokes that came up...
Actually that was it exactly... Only he almost made it back to us before he was killed.
It should be noted we were using A LOT of Variant Rules and using Facing with Shields only applying against attacks coming through or originating in certain Squares. Changing Facing was a Swift or Free Action depending.
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
I found this post because once in a blue moon I will go find out what the creators of the game I so enjoy, favorite, think and appreciate themselves. It helps me understand more about this game. Where its been and where its going. Today it happened to be SKR
I am ashamed by a lot of what I read. I am a believer in Jesus Christ. I have been raised to believe in a doctrine that says certain things are not right. Does that give me holy right to hate and to judge people? No, it doesn't. At the end of my life, and I go before my maker, I will find out then. I won't be upset to find that we got it wrong.
But these people who call themselves Christians, (whom I am one) makes me so much more upset. How can you be so vehemently hateful when you claim to espouse the teachings of a man who only proclaimed Love.
I would like to add my approval to paizo for making it plain that they accept all people of all walks of life. I am currently bringing my sun (11 years old) into PFS and am happy to know that it will be a safe environment for him even if he is or isnt different from "normal ".
Speaking about trope...I don't regularly check them out so I don't know if this was a official one(or even that true anymore). It seems there was a time in movies and TV show where only white straight men got to be villains. Which I kinda always hated. Don't get be started on the depiction of handicap people in movies and TV.
One of thing I like about Pazio's depiction of homosexuals is that they can be bad, good, or indifferent. It as important in judging the NPC as their hair color.
@John_Kretzer: I have a CG Lesbian Human Cleric Lich. It was priceless dealing with my characters interacting with her.
@Celestial_Healer: I agree.
Ahem.
And besides, "he" has some pretty blue eyes. Too pretty for a guy, I'd say.
I'd say those eyes are more creepy than pretty...
Only if you look at his face and not just his eyes...
I still can't get over the fact that the whole Cigar reference lines up so well.
|
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
I have no idea what to think of this 'transsexual iconic' thing, but my vote's for Sajan. Perhaps his missing 'twin' sister was in fact his identical twin sister.
It would make an odd sort of sense for the most scantily-clad male iconic to have been born a girl. Beefcake, with a dash of cheese.
Belt of Gender Changing HO!
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I have no idea what to think of this 'transsexual iconic' thing, but my vote's for Sajan. Perhaps his missing 'twin' sister was in fact his identical twin sister.
It would make an odd sort of sense for the most scantily-clad male iconic to have been born a girl. Beefcake, with a dash of cheese.
So, in essence, you're saying the 'cake' is a lie?
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
No, the "cake" is not a lie. :)
It's just a question of whether it's beefcake or cheesecake (whichever is more applicable).
No, the "cake" is not a lie. :)
It's just a question of whether it's beefcake or cheesecake (whichever is more applicable).
I should be more technical. :D
The *cake is a lie, where * is the variable being applies in the moment of observation - to wit, it is still cake, but not *cake.
Xcake?
Solve for X?
XXcake? XYcake? XXXcake? X²cake? X³cake?
...I was told there would be no math.
polymorph cake? transmutation cake?
|
|
I have no idea what to think of this 'transsexual iconic' thing, but my vote's for Sajan. Perhaps his missing 'twin' sister was in fact his identical twin sister.
It would make an odd sort of sense for the most scantily-clad male iconic to have been born a girl. Beefcake, with a dash of cheese.
Oh man. That general possibility was scratching at my brain too, but this makes so much more sense than the "wait, what if Sajan is Sajni!" theory bouncing around my head.
(that and I wholeheartedly support the idea of Sajni looking like a Rule 63'ed Sajan, though the sleeves might need just a bit more material around the chest area...)
Y'know...Damiel on page 2 of Broken Chains has a bit of "could be played by Tilda Swinton" thing going on.
Y'know...Damiel on page 2 of Broken Chains has a bit of "could be played by Tilda Swinton" thing going on.
Technically, that should be said about every Male Elf ever...
Contributor
|
I have no idea what to think of this 'transsexual iconic' thing, but my vote's for Sajan. Perhaps his missing 'twin' sister was in fact his identical twin sister.
It would make an odd sort of sense for the most scantily-clad male iconic to have been born a girl. Beefcake, with a dash of cheese.
Oh man. That general possibility was scratching at my brain too, but this makes so much more sense than the "wait, what if Sajan is Sajni!" theory bouncing around my head.
(that and I wholeheartedly support the idea of Sajni looking like a Rule 63'ed Sajan, though the sleeves might need just a bit more material around the chest area...)
Y'know...Damiel on page 2 of Broken Chains has a bit of "could be played by Tilda Swinton" thing going on.
I like the Saj[a]n/i idea...
It's Guanyin in reverse.
I have no idea what to think of this 'transsexual iconic' thing, but my vote's for Sajan. Perhaps his missing 'twin' sister was in fact his identical twin sister.
It would make an odd sort of sense for the most scantily-clad male iconic to have been born a girl. Beefcake, with a dash of cheese.
I was thinking about this one, too.
|
|
I was thinking about this one, too.I have no idea what to think of this 'transsexual iconic' thing, but my vote's for Sajan. Perhaps his missing 'twin' sister was in fact his identical twin sister.
It would make an odd sort of sense for the most scantily-clad male iconic to have been born a girl. Beefcake, with a dash of cheese.
Given Vudra's association with reincarnation, it does make a bit of sense, to me. More so than many of the others.
That said, there's room in their backstories for Lini, Seoni, Seltyiel, Damiel or Feiya to have undergone some sort of magical gender change, I suspect.
Lini, capriciously, of her own volition. Seoni as part of her magical awakening (particularly if it fits with her bloodline, a fecund Abyssal bloodline, or a Destined bloodline stemming from a prominent female ancestor, or a Verdant bloodline, etc.). Seltyiel as something that was done to him, maliciously (or, protectively, given their bandit company?), perhaps by his elven parent. Damiel, drank the wrong mutagen (and, perhaps, when 'he' uses his mutagen class ability, transforms into a large *female* 'mutant?'). Feiya, a 'gift' from her hag captors, who had no desire to have a boy child scampering about.
Magical classes probably have an advantage at this sort of thing, particularly those already in some way altering their form, such as druids or alchemists.
The only one whose background seems less flexible on such matters would be Amiri, as her gender was relevant to her backstory.
What of them being a Eunuch?
How did I not know of this earlier?
EDIT: Well... Seems yet another post from my account that I didn't make... Though it does make an interesting thought...
LOL, in an Eberron game several years back, I played a Changeling. I got into the group simply because that was something I wanted to play. I did not know any of the others, save a quasi-gay friend, but they all turned out to be gay, bi, or lesbian. I was the hopelessly straight player and the only character with the ability to fulfill the fantasy of EVERY party member. And I was the Transmuter. Really though, after the first session or three, gender faded hard into the background and 'sex' rarely came up in game. Schedules killed the group. Damn work!
Both pure gays have now contracted AIDS and one of the lesbians 'went straight' and got married to a total jerk. The rest drifted, but I still get Stonewall party invites and get introduced as the hopelessly straight friend. Last I heard, most are deep into a WoD group.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Homosexuality + Pathfinder, in the news:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/levi-a-miles/my-fathers-unexpected-response-t o-my-coming-out_b_3072636.html
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Homosexuality + Pathfinder, in the news:
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Oh no, something got in my eyes in the middle of class!
What of them being a Eunuch?
Strictly speaking, being a eunuch wouldn't have any direct effect on your gender identity or orientation -- unless the society you live in regards eunuchs as a sort of 3rd gender and has a distinct social niche for them separate from male or female niches. On the other hand, just because society tries to force you into that niche doesn't mean your identity has to cooperate.
Ok so that wasn't my post but it does bring up an interesting circumstance.
Eunuch was the term used for the Men who had been cut whether as punishment or willingly. Two forms existed of the technique. The first was basically a version of the modern vasectomy. The Second was the traditional idea of what a Eunuch was. If taken willingly it could be considered a analogue to the modern sex-change operation for that time period.
Odd what you learn by dealing with Monks.
That would technically fall under the Willing given how they were usually submitted to it by their Guardians.
|
What of them being a Eunuch?Strictly speaking, being a eunuch wouldn't have any direct effect on your gender identity or orientation -- unless the society you live in regards eunuchs as a sort of 3rd gender and has a distinct social niche for them separate from male or female niches. On the other hand, just because society tries to force you into that niche doesn't mean your identity has to cooperate.
Unles it happened early enough that you never developed many trait of normal hormones for your gender.
And my Oriental Nations now have yet another Facet in their culture.
|
|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Likewise the social contexts vary with some interesting nuances e.g. eunochs being trusted as advisors because they could not start a dynasty.
Mameluke slaves were regarded the same way, having been raised with no family other than their fellow slave-soldiers, and therefore being considered above the sort of corruption that leads to nepotism and securing advantage for family and heirs.
There's a strange logic in putting power into the hands of people who are socially or culturally unable to use it to benefit themselves or serve their own interests, and yet, also the downside of putting the welfare of your own people into the hands of people who have zero empathy with your situation, since they are outside your 'group'...
But really, every culture has done that, one way or another, often dividing their military / soldiers into a different group, with different laws and rights and regulations (living communally, sharing resources, being told that even their bodies are property of the government, having their own very different legal system, etc.), creating the surreal situation where a society or nations way of life is being defended by people who aren't living it and end up regarding the 'soft' civilians as far removed from 'the real world' and sometimes with a measure of contempt.
In that light, military coups seem almost an inevitable development.
Informative post, Set.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In that light, military coups seem almost an inevitable development.Didn't this actually get some play in the last days of Thassilon(courtesy of the Shoanti) and the overthrow of Qadiran occupation of Osirion?
Yup. Dragging this back to Golarion (if not necessarily sexuality), the Chelish tendency to label some sections of their population as 'not-people' or 'less equal than others,' such as Halflings and tieflings and people with elven blood, seems likely to similarly breed an eventual uprising. Similarly, the Chelish descended citizens of Korvosa don't think much of the more Varisian-blooded citizens, and even less of the Shoanti, and yet, so long as they have use for them, and, over time, become intertwined with and interdependent upon the goods and services these 'savages' provide, the more tenuous their social snobbery becomes.
Golarion doesn't have as many clear cut sexual (or sexuality) driven underclasses, but it's got plenty of cultural / race / species based ones, from the Shoanti in Korvosa to the Halflings in Cheliax to the Goblins in Thornkeep.
Erastil, for instance, can be *interpreted* as misogynist, but it's not like there's an Erastili nation (or even *village*) that's been portrayed in the setting where women are second-class citizens, or there's an underground railroad smuggling them out of the place.
On the other hand, certain 'medieval fantasy' rules do seem to apply. Powerful wizards (Geb, Nex, Razmir, old-mage-what-his-name/Jatembe?) are dudes. Women only rule if the male ruler died and left them in charge (Ileosa) or they are Eeevil (Elvanna, and Ileosa, again) or they are not human (elf-queens), all pandering to the old trope that, since women aren't *supposed* to be 'above' men, a female ruler must be evil or unnatural or whatever. Same sex couples are in hiding, even if, by the strict text of the setting, they shouldn't necessarily have to be (such as the couple in Sandpoint, said to be an open secret to the townsfolk, and the only one who really seems to disapprove is the local sleazebag crimelord!).
The only (possibly!) homosexual couples that walk around on the streets are the Iridian Fold, which were stated to be found in various cosmopolitan communities in the 2008 Campaign Setting, but then didn't appear in the list of groups in the Inner Sea World Guide (much like the Darklight Sisterhood, who, as I understand it, were deliberately excluded), suggesting that they are now only to be found in Kaer Maga (per City of Strangers), a city that has thriving populations of trolls, goblins, naga, centaurs, gargoyles and undead.
I suppose in Kaer Maga, two dudes that *might* be lovers walking around is probably blissfully normal. At least nothing nine foot tall and green is ripping it's guts out and waving them to you, telling you that you are doomed...
Also kind of to be expected that the most inclusive and least prejudiced city in the Inner Sea would indeed be the most inclusive and least prejudiced, not just to trolls and undead, but also to non-traditional relationships.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
This gives us two facts: Chelish traditions, in fact, do ostracize homosexuals. And those traditions are nowadays frowned upon by the majority of the common people living far from Chelish holds, but political reasons might make secrecy a necessity for some people.
Ooh, interesting, thanks for the correction! I'm such a racist for assuming that the local shady Varisian family was indeed Sczarni! :)
I wonder how old these Chelish traditions are? Asmodean tradition, misogynistic or not, is relatively new. (And, the way I see Asmodeus, he's less concerned with who you're having the sex with than whether or not it's a proper domineering / submissive sort of relationship with clear boundaries, all the paperwork filled out and people in their proper places.)
I wonder if Aroden was not a fan of same-sex relationships, being god of humanity, and somewhat invested in humanity *breeding?* On the one hand, lawful god of history, which suggests stuffy stodgy close-minded hidebound traditionalism. On the other hand, god of prophecy and *innovation,* which suggests a more open mind and some encouragement of new and, potentially, applecart-upsetting, things.
Alternately, in addition to Aroden, Iomedae was (and is) hot stuff in Cheliax. Although, being herself somewhat 'non-traditional' by medieval standards (a female knight), I'm not sure whether it makes more or less sense for her to have an opinion one way or the other on same-sex relationships. On the one hand, she could be quietly supportive of non-traditional relationships, for no other reason than Asmodeans are going all misogynistic, the two faiths pushing each other to extremes on a subject, that, before their faiths came into conflict, literally mattered not a whit to either of them, but now they find themselves increasingly being pushed further away from 'don't ask, don't care' to 'women should know their place!' and 'sisters are doing it in your face!' On the other hand, if fantasy life is anything like real life, some of the nastier oppressors are those who are hiding their own membership in the club. Iomedae's 'non-traditional' woman in platemail thing could be causing her to swing in the other direction, and discourage *other* sorts of non-traditional roles, to draw attention away from her own convention-flouting, in a 'good for me, not for thee' sort of way.
It's kind of cool that the various deities involved are so fleshed out that one could find arguments to support either viewpoint, for any of them. Few of them are so totally made of cardboard that they can't be justified for a PC, NPC or encounter that leans in either direction.