Never mind all that.
What's the missing ingredient for their magic potion?
Thank you, Snorter.
May I draw everybody's attention to this little bit of awesomeness?:
|
I'd like to hear your thoughts on the character and whether or not you would allow him to be in your campaign, whether you think the concept of the character is thought-provoking and interesting, and how well you'd imagine the character might be portrayed, especially by a heterosexual male or even a female (someone who might not be of the characters assumed 'playerhood').
Have you read the 'Slaine' comic series, by Pat Mills and various artists?
For some of the stories, after his predetermined time as High King, and his ritual sacrifice, the hero had to serve his Goddess, in other ages, being reborn through time, often having to stand in for other heroes who had come to a premature death.In these other times, he often met analogues of people he knew from his original life, including his on/off lover/wife Niamh.
Sometimes she remembered him, sometimes not, even being appalled by him. And for one series, he finds her soul reborn as Simon de Montfort, and fighting against the Cathars. He awakens de Montfort's memories, but both are left confused what they should do about the situation.
|
|
I'd like to hear your thoughts on the character and whether or not you would allow him to be in your campaign, whether you think the concept of the character is thought-provoking and interesting, and how well you'd imagine the character might be portrayed, especially by a heterosexual male or even a female (someone who might not be of the characters assumed 'playerhood').
It's an interesting background, and could make a good story.
However, 'stories' don't make good games.The player will have a definite (happy? tragic?) ending in mind, the GM likely has another (must constantly keep them apart for dramatic tension!), and hurt feelings will ensue, when the player's expectations aren't met, with the 'right' outcome.
Unless the player and GM get their heads together and agree how it plays out from beginning to end, in which case, why play it out?
I imagine many groups would shy away from allowing such a character, but not necessarily for reasons of prejudice.
What you've described is a character who would demand a lot of spotlight time, on a solo romantic subplot.
Many groups avoid romance in general, except in the most general terms ("We've saved the princess, now what do we do with her? Can we stick her back home in the castle and forget about her, till we need some expository dialogue?") or it gets played for laughs ("You're on shore leave, cross off 5gp and roll on the STD table".).
Even in groups that treat the subject with respect, letting one player dominate the session time, or railroad the rest of the party along their search, would be a dealbreaker for many, seeing their characters relegated to sidekicks.
This would only be avoided by giving every player a similarly-sized subplot, upon which, the game becomes all about the subplots, and the GM forgets about trying to herd the PCs toward an actual adventure.
Could work for some groups, if they aren't bothered by watching other people playing romance, don't have overwhelming urges for traditional dungeonbashing ("It's been five minutes and I haven't HIT anything! Get on with it!), have proactive ideas for their own subplots, and want a sandbox environment to play them out in.
In my experience, very few players are actually pro-active. They make a lot of noise about wanting the freedom to do whatever they want, but put a map in front of them, and ask them "Where do you want to go?", and they stare at you blankly. "Haven't you prepared an adventure?".
Most players want and expect to be led by the nose, no matter how much they pretend otherwise.
Never mind all that.
What's the missing ingredient for their magic potion?
Thank you, Snorter.
May I draw everybody's attention to this little bit of awesomeness?:
OMG, my score on that quiz was awful! You heard it here first kids, don't drink and click. :P
|
@Azaelas Fayth: Probably just bumped up one notch.
** spoiler omitted **
Man I sure hope turian babies don't grow their face bones out until after moving on from those then, because ouch.
Also, does anyone remember the implied couple from Crown of the Kobold King?
I think I remember that one being confirmed here on the boards at some point. Well after the brief "Stupid Sexy Flanders" reaction that sorcerer got.
@Azaelas Fayth: Probably just bumped up one notch.
What do you mean?
Ah. Say a CR +1 Template that gives them 2 Arms?
Wait... Do Naga get a Shapeshifting Ability?
If not we might could tack on a single Humanoid Shapeshifting Ability akin to the Kitsune's.
Wait... Do Naga get a Shapeshifting Ability?
If not we might could tack on a single Humanoid Shapeshifting Ability akin to the Kitsune's.
No, you're thinking of a lamia matriarch. Which admittedly, lamias are what I think of when I think "upper body woman, lower body snake."
Oh, well, that's easy enough then. Just let us know when you can the titles of the encyclopedia and the specific article. I'm sure I can access it through the university.
I am interested as well.... Because if AF is right I have to screw up my degree and flush it....
He may be confusing the Tutones and Cimbri....with the Gauls. As there is some conjecture over their origin, because the names of their chiefs were Gallicised.... But then it was in Gaul that those two tribes of Germans spent a lot of time...
Gaul, Gael, Byrthon, Manx, Belgaeic, Breton, Kernow, Cymry so on are "Celtic" in that they shared a common culture and languages that were most assuredly not Germanic.
Don't worry Dwarf, I have a feeling those citations will never arrive....
Also, as interesting as the many and varied conversations that are meandering along here are, what does any of this have to do with homosexuality in Golarion?
I was enjoying all the bitter recriminations and general hair-pulling that was going on ten or so pages ago.
Don't worry Dwarf, I have a feeling those citations will never arrive....
Also, as interesting as the many and varied conversations that are meandering along here are, what does any of this have to do with homosexuality in Golarion?
I was enjoying all the bitter recriminations and general hair-pulling that was going on ten or so pages ago.
I am all for it...Homosexuality in Golarion that is, not the bitter recriminations bit.
Not that it maters... I am a straight dude, and I am more than happy to share this world with my GLTB brothers and sisters... So I am just as happy to share fantasy worlds with them as well.
OMG, my score on that quiz was awful! You heard it here first kids, don't drink and click. :PNever mind all that.
What's the missing ingredient for their magic potion?
Thank you, Snorter.
May I draw everybody's attention to this little bit of awesomeness?:
My score was also terrible. Even when I knew where it was, I'd click near it and get 0 points and when I'd randomly guess and get something close (within the same present-day country) I'd get points.
Whatevs, it's still neat-o.
Don't worry Dwarf, I have a feeling those citations will never arrive....
Also, as interesting as the many and varied conversations that are meandering along here are, what does any of this have to do with homosexuality in Golarion?
I was enjoying all the bitter recriminations and general hair-pulling that was going on ten or so pages ago.
That would be why I temporarily hid the thread after my last post. Think I'll let it run a page or two more before checking in again.
As much as I favor this thread, and its general tone and direction, I still find myself more deliberating of if the more typified source of marginalization and/or acrimonious discrimination would be cross-racial intimacy, rather than same-gendered. Tying into that, however, is the notion of races who are typified or typecast as having a fondness for such dalliances, something that might not be fact in any way but falls into the groupthink of 'everybody knows'. After all, if the real world can have such foolishness as people believing that people of certain ethnicities had sideways genitalia, or the whole continuation of the vagina dentata meme, there's bound to be occasion for ludicrous belief in pervy halfling fanciers, gnomish size queens, or the vast dwarven homosexual agenda that specializes in recruiting the most burly and manly of men to set aside their wives and join the crafting brotherhood with other similarly burly, sweaty, masculine peers who share a love for the heat of the forge and the scent of musk, metal, and leather.
Besides, it's obvious that followers of Inari are all sapphic snake-molestors. They are just following their goddess's example! :D
Woo, tangent - there's no Sappho in Golarion, as of yet, nor an actual isle of Lesbos. By extension, lesbianism would be an in-universe misnomer. This only is relevant because I was flipping through the Shelzar - City of Sin book for the Scarred Lands setting, and there was a house of ill repute that was named after a neighboring nation, more specifically "Love, Calastian Style". It was more to tweak the sensibilities of Calastians who felt the appellation was slanderous, but the term was used among male homosexuals as a descriptive euphemism, without malice (or how certain members of certain countercultures and fandoms might advertise on certain sites as being 'Greek-friendly', as opposed to 'English-oriented' in regards to the spanking thing, and so on and so forth). I'm curious to see if any others have had similar sorts of euphemistic analogizing in their campaigns, and to hear the backstories behind same.
Seems Kajehase and me are both right and wrong...
They are currently overhauling the way they categorizing Cultures...
Now to figure out what the Frak the Celtic Cultural Archetype means.
@Odraude: I was thinking: Naga are known to be both Male & Female. And this way makes the Nagaji a bit easier to understand. As I can see a Human going for the traditional Mythological Naga over Pathfinder's Naga...
Derail, but:
Fayth, this is an honest question, not snark. Who is this "they" you keep talking about? Who has it within their purview to categorize cultures?
The ones who decide standards for this. I am just posting what i have access to. I honestly am not sure which of the 5 organizations are agreeing on this change. Seems that 2013 will be a year of a lot of changes.
The ones who decide standards for this. I am just posting what i have access to. I honestly am not sure which of the 5 organizations are agreeing on this change.
And the five organizations are called...?
I just know most of them are Educational Institutes...
AF can I ask what country you are from?
America. I can tell you that the largest 3 are based in Europe.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Woo, tangent - there's no Sappho in Golarion, as of yet, nor an actual isle of Lesbos. By extension, lesbianism would be an in-universe misnomer.
This has been scratching at my brain for a while too. While I'm not sure we need a Golarion-analogue term, just "woman-lover" feels like something meant to be derogatory, or that could be taken that way. Or at least it's seemed to be in most instances I've read it in fantasy novels.
Hmm...maybe something that derives from the Sarenrae/Shelyn/Desna relationship that might be well known throughout the Inner Sea Region and possibly romanticized there?
Something besides "sasheldes" or other combinations of their names, probably? Even if dezshelian rolls out nicely.(then again...Desna and Shelyn are both "easy" gods for those of other faiths to pay lip service to naturally and to hold as a part of their personal cosmology of gods they keep close...)
But it still feels a bit too...I don't know. Shippy? Not saying that worshippers on Golarion don't do that in some way, but still.
Maybe it would be best to find some sort of shared holiday between two or three of them and run off of that?
America. I can tell you that the largest 3 are based in Europe.
And you can't tell us any more because this shadowy league of History Academics will assassinate you if you do...?
Pffft.
Sorry to be blunt, but you made a dud call about a historical culture, were confronted with it, and have since presented a series of ambiguous posts about how you're actually right but can't, for some unknown reason, tell us how or why you are right (and who you're getting your info from) and Kajehase is wrong.
Oh, you did mention you couldn't post citations because your computer was updating.... Is it finished yet? Or are those citations more super-classified data that the Evil Axis of Ancient Cultural Classification would kill you for revealing?
I'd love it if you were to completely shoot me down and shut me up with something concrete.
Like a citation. Or anything.
Or, you could get back on topic.
Or I could just not give a damn about how they are changing things that are altering the information I am using for building my campaign.
I actually did post something relating to the topic:
"Ironically, Caesar called the Gauls and such Barbarians but these so called "Barbarians" viewed the Romans as the savages. I think there are records of a Chief commenting on how the Romans "mated" in the open like Animals." I was expecting most people to know that Gauls were also noted as being very open people, but they kept certain things hidden.
Sorry AF that has nothing to do with the existence of the Celts as a people and culture other than an un-cited document talking about the Celtic opinion of the Romans.
Start with Wikipedia it is not ideal but it is better than what ever source you are using.
Decide if you are looking at ancient or modern Celts or a combination of both.
If you want existing RPG resources covering ancient Celts - Slaine, or the Cimerians from Conan or the 2nd Ed source book Celts will help you.
I am not talking about that Dwarf. I was posting that dealing with the actual topic of this thread!
Oh and the source for the quote. Is a Roman Scribes transcript of the Gaul Chief who visited Rome during the Time when some Gauls served as Mercenaries for the Roman Legion.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
So... uhhh... besides the above conversation which I cannot follow at all...
I read Pathfinder #5 today. :)
It feels really good to have the topic treated the way it has been. Not sexualised or sensationalised. Just as normal as Valeros' time a few pages before.
Good job Paizo, and of course Jim Zub and the artist crew too!
|
|
Woo, tangent - there's no Sappho in Golarion, as of yet, nor an actual isle of Lesbos. By extension, lesbianism would be an in-universe misnomer.This has been scratching at my brain for a while too. While I'm not sure we need a Golarion-analogue term, just "woman-lover" feels like something meant to be derogatory, or that could be taken that way. Or at least it's seemed to be in most instances I've read it in fantasy novels.
Hmm...maybe something that derives from the Sarenrae/Shelyn/Desna relationship that might be well known throughout the Inner Sea Region and possibly romanticized there?
Something besides "sasheldes" or other combinations of their names, probably? Even if dezshelian rolls out nicely.(then again...Desna and Shelyn are both "easy" gods for those of other faiths to pay lip service to naturally and to hold as a part of their personal cosmology of gods they keep close...)
But it still feels a bit too...I don't know. Shippy? Not saying that worshippers on Golarion don't do that in some way, but still.
Maybe it would be best to find some sort of shared holiday between two or three of them and run off of that?
I find there is always a challenge with concepts and things that have names derived from real-world places. I once debated with myself (for far too long) as to whether I could refer to "Spanish moss" in Golarion. There is no Spain. Does that mean Spanish moss does not exist? If it does, what do they call it?
Ultimately, I think we use names for things in the game that mean something to everyone at the table, be it "lesbian" or "Spanish moss" because everyone will know what it means without having to reinvent a vocabulary.
That does not mean that a Lesbos analogue in Golarion wouldn't be cool. It would. I just don't think that it should be driven by linguistic concerns.
Contributor
|
Woo, tangent - there's no Sappho in Golarion, as of yet, nor an actual isle of Lesbos. By extension, lesbianism would be an in-universe misnomer.This has been scratching at my brain for a while too. While I'm not sure we need a Golarion-analogue term, just "woman-lover" feels like something meant to be derogatory, or that could be taken that way. Or at least it's seemed to be in most instances I've read it in fantasy novels.
Hmm...maybe something that derives from the Sarenrae/Shelyn/Desna relationship that might be well known throughout the Inner Sea Region and possibly romanticized there?
Something besides "sasheldes" or other combinations of their names, probably? Even if dezshelian rolls out nicely.(then again...Desna and Shelyn are both "easy" gods for those of other faiths to pay lip service to naturally and to hold as a part of their personal cosmology of gods they keep close...)
But it still feels a bit too...I don't know. Shippy? Not saying that worshippers on Golarion don't do that in some way, but still.
Maybe it would be best to find some sort of shared holiday between two or three of them and run off of that?
Perhaps there's a woman-loving island off Iblydos? The actual non-geographical Classical term was tribas (Anglicized as tribade), but that acquired or implied a perforative meaning and refers to a specific activity. I'm not sure if that connotation carries to the present day. Perhaps we ought to ask a Queer Studies expert. I know the word has been used by modern lesbians as a synonym.
I ran into kind of a similar issue in my own home games. Should I make up new names for the days of the week, I mean there is no Tyr, Woden, Thor, Frigg, or Saturn. Ultimately I just decided to stick with the standard days, just because the names came about based on certain deities in our world, doesn't mean the same names couldn't have come about some other way on a different world. Likewise Spanish moss might not be based on a country Spain, but instead an explorer named Span who first found it. Thus it is Span's Moss or Spanish Moss.
I'd rather not head down the slippery slope of inventing new words for things because they reference something Earth specific. I suspect that if you head down that road, you are going to find a ton of every day words and phrases that make no sense existing in Golarion.
I just assume Common doesn't equal English, and words and phrases used in Golarion centric material are just translated over to the nearest English analogues
Perhaps there's a woman-loving island off Iblydos? The actual non-geographical Classical term was tribas (Anglicized as tribade), but that acquired or implied a perforative meaning and refers to a specific activity. I'm not sure if that connotation carries to the present day. Perhaps we ought to ask a Queer Studies expert. I know the word has been used by modern lesbians as a synonym.Woo, tangent - there's no Sappho in Golarion, as of yet, nor an actual isle of Lesbos. By extension, lesbianism would be an in-universe misnomer.This has been scratching at my brain for a while too. While I'm not sure we need a Golarion-analogue term, just "woman-lover" feels like something meant to be derogatory, or that could be taken that way. Or at least it's seemed to be in most instances I've read it in fantasy novels.
Hmm...maybe something that derives from the Sarenrae/Shelyn/Desna relationship that might be well known throughout the Inner Sea Region and possibly romanticized there?
Something besides "sasheldes" or other combinations of their names, probably? Even if dezshelian rolls out nicely.(then again...Desna and Shelyn are both "easy" gods for those of other faiths to pay lip service to naturally and to hold as a part of their personal cosmology of gods they keep close...)
But it still feels a bit too...I don't know. Shippy? Not saying that worshippers on Golarion don't do that in some way, but still.
Maybe it would be best to find some sort of shared holiday between two or three of them and run off of that?
I rather like the non-geographical term of reference, even if it infers a specific physical act that is only one component in the possible relationship - after all, while frottage is a gender-neutral term that works for the acts akin to tribadism, the latter is far more specific in its implication, and to my modern mind is not as pejorative.
Then again, I'm not of a gender or orientation to be offended, so my opinion can be taken with a grain of salt the size of a Buick. The closest comparison I get to give is that I personally would not take offense at denizens of Mwangi being described as 'colored', if said by Taldans or Chelaxians, especially when said turn of phrase applies as much to gnomes as well.
Back on topic, I know it is a nit-pick of the most pedantic variety to desire an in-universe phrase or word to describe something, and I greatly appreciate the idea of Taldan being effectively translated into English for our discussion purposes, yet I find that having a term for something stemming from the world itself to hold a great amount of weight and verisimilitude. Just as the lack of an Isle of Lesbos makes the derived lesbian feel like a wash, I don't see that those who deride physical intimacy between men would use a term derived from a region on Earth that they would have never heard of to describe the offending deed. Insults and slang hold setting significance, after all, and while this thread has focused (rightfully so) on the positive attitude expressed by the company regarding Homosexuality in Golarion, my curiosity extends as much to the in-game differences of opinions and terms, both adoring and offending, that add to the world without having to completely go con-lang and full-on neologism.
Even if making up words is fun. :D
Plus, we encounter this in English already with boots and trunks, hoods and bonnets, elevators and lifts, and apartments and flats. And as a slight polyglot, it makes certain words even more fascinating. English muffins versus crumpets, Southern-style sweet tea versus Thai iced tea, and all sorts of foods and drinks where the base materials are the same but the region of their preparation become the shorthand by which the end product is named...
Also, because the Spanish moss question made me curious...Spanish-moss, also called Florida moss, long moss, or graybeard, is not a true moss. It is an epiphytic plant, which grows on another plant, but does not rely on the host plant for nutrients; epiphytes make their own food.
Long moss. I rather like the sound of that...
Greybeard... Sounds fitting for Dwarven Surface Trading/Logging Outpost...
Greybeard... Sounds fitting for Dwarven Surface Trading/Logging Outpost...
Or, to shamelessly crib from a certain MMO, perfect for an herb used in alchemy that would otherwise be named for the 'whiskers' of a famous spellcaster.
Would also make for great treant decoration, possibly seen as a bit of silly vanity by others.
I was gonna drop the girdle hooks, but then I saw The Sovereign's (Bowie's) new music video. Ooo, Tilda and Andrej?! {contented sigh}
I imagine there's scores of girdle-related hooks -- female small business owner needs access to all-male socio-political club to recommend "his sister's" business for contracts, male adventures need to search/hide in all-female guildhouse, ordinary law-abiding citizen with remove curse on their spell list uses uses the girdle to become notorious crime boss/assassin/elite cat-burglar alter-ego, etc. -- that anyone can come up with (and already have). But trying to think outside the box:
1) Does swapping physical sex carry over physical infertility issues, especially when all that plumbing is changed so drastically? An infertile couple could visit a cleric of pro-family Erastil who suggests husband and wife both use the girdle and retry to conceive.
Cleric: "I know you've been a devout follower, loyal husband, and good provider to your wife. But, with Erastil's blessings, are you 'man enough' to conceive, carry, and birth your child?"
2) Does the girdle only work on humanoids? Could a rancher/farmer raising horses or cattle use it to swap sexes of select specimens of his herd to maintain a proper breeding ratio? (Do steer/bulls command more/less money at market than cows?) A dairy farmer could keep an all cow lot to maximize production, then swap over the choicest cows into bulls when it's time to breed. Or, when attempting to breed them, the rancher/farmer could pair up to best specimens -- regardless of their birth sex -- to conceive the best possible offspring.
3) What if a modified/custom girdle converts the wearer into a "clone" of a specific ideal individual? It could be used to create a cult (see Varley's The Barbie Murders), a variation of a "Faceless Men" guild where all the assassins look and sound identical, or even just an elite tavern/club with all-identical staff. Or clerics of Arshea (and probably a few other powers) could all use one for specific religious ceremonies; they'd get remove curse on hitting 5th level, so they'd just need to prepare it and rest to return to their regular sex the next morning.
homosexual treant
[Insert hard wood joke here]
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
homosexual treant[Insert hard wood joke here]
It was only a matter of time...
I imagine there's scores of girdle-related hooks -- female small business owner needs access to all-male socio-political club to recommend "his sister's" business for contracts, male adventures need to search/hide in all-female guildhouse, ordinary law-abiding citizen with remove curse on their spell list uses uses the girdle to become notorious crime boss/assassin/elite cat-burglar alter-ego, etc. -- that anyone can come up with (and already have). But trying to think outside the box:
1) Does swapping physical sex carry over physical infertility issues, especially when all that plumbing is changed so drastically? An infertile couple could visit a cleric of pro-family Erastil who suggests husband and wife both use the girdle and retry to conceive.
Cleric: "I know you've been a devout follower, loyal husband, and good provider to your wife. But, with Erastil's blessings, are you 'man enough' to conceive, carry, and birth your child?"
The one thing about this notion that jumps out at me, rather than sticking in the proverbial craw, is that I could see Erastil being incredibly pragmatic about it, even if it is not the optimal choice of situations - it accomplishes the whole family thing, and community-building, so do what one must. What I DO see arising as a counterpoint to this are druids, not necessarily of the Green Faith, but of a less-deity-driven, more-'nature-inspired' bent who may or may not have a problem with homosexuality or most related issues, but would disapprove emphatically of transgenderism purely on the basis of going against/changing how one was designed by nature, and thus seeking to keep the would-be sex-swappers from attempting the proffered solution. "You were not meant to continue your line - nature decrees it. Do not let this lessen your love, but do not attempt to defy your natural destiny." They need not be villainous either; it may simply be a conflict of vantage points, and while antagonists they would not necessarily have to be evil. Even more interestingly, the view could be seen as more 'traditionalist' (and to many, 'backwards') than Erastil's take on the matter.
2) Does the girdle only work on humanoids? Could a rancher/farmer raising horses or cattle use it to swap sexes of select specimens of his herd to maintain a proper breeding ratio? (Do steer/bulls command more/less money at market than cows?) A dairy farmer could keep an all cow lot to maximize production, then swap over the choicest cows into bulls when it's time to breed. Or, when attempting to breed them, the rancher/farmer could pair up to best specimens -- regardless of their birth sex -- to conceive the best possible offspring.
See prior response, but then throw in a heaping helping of Lamashtu cultists wanting to take this obvious twisting of the working of nature and turning it to the glorious depravity of their demonic Mother. What starts as a metaphorical arms race to produce the highest quality mounts, milk, and meat gives way to figuring out why there's a sudden rash of abyssaly tainted quasi-centauroids, mutant minotaurs, and other unspeakable beings spawned from an attempt to make progress in animal husbandry through clever implementation of magic? Alternately, such might not happen, but there could be fears and/or rumors of such from competitors who lack access to such wondrous programs themselves...only for such to come to pass when those who want to run with the Big Names find themselves approached by individuals claiming the ability to provide similar services...and THEY prove to be the Lamashtu worshipers, exploiting an opportunity to unleash all manners of magics related to reproduction under the guise of providing valuable service.
3) What if a modified/custom girdle converts the wearer into a "clone" of a specific ideal individual? It could be used to create a cult (see Varley's The Barbie Murders), a variation of a "Faceless Men" guild where all the assassins look and sound identical, or even just an elite tavern/club with all-identical staff. Or clerics of Arshea (and probably a few other powers) could all use one for specific religious ceremonies; they'd get remove curse on hitting 5th level, so they'd just need to prepare it and rest to return to their regular sex the next morning.
I could see much potential in this one particularly, particularly as part of a cult of narcissistic nature. Especially for some manner of extra-heretical Nocticula cult.
The one thing about this notion that jumps out at me, rather than sticking in the proverbial craw, is that I could see Erastil being incredibly pragmatic about it, even if it is not the optimal choice of situations - it accomplishes the whole family thing, and community-building, so do what one must. What I DO see arising as a counterpoint to this are druids, not necessarily of the Green Faith, but of a less-deity-driven, more-'nature-inspired' bent who may or may not have a problem with homosexuality or most related issues, but would disapprove emphatically of transgenderism purely on the basis of going against/changing how one was designed by nature, and thus seeking to keep the would-be sex-swappers from attempting the proffered solution. "You were not meant to continue your line - nature decrees it. Do not let this lessen your love, but do not attempt to defy your natural destiny." They need not be villainous either; it may simply be a conflict of vantage points, and while antagonists they would not necessarily have to be evil. Even more interestingly, the view could be seen as more 'traditionalist' (and to many, 'backwards') than Erastil's take on the matter.Does swapping physical sex carry over physical infertility issues, especially when all that plumbing is changed so drastically? An infertile couple could visit a cleric of pro-family Erastil who suggests husband and wife both use the girdle and retry to conceive.
Cleric: "I know you've been a devout follower, loyal husband, and good provider to your wife. But, with Erastil's blessings, are you 'man enough' to conceive, carry, and birth your child?"
Ah, but druids, of all humanoids, should already roll favorably on their Knowledge (Nature) checks and be aware of sequential hermaphrodism, protandry & protogyny, and opposite-sex mimicry for mating (garter snakes and cuttlefish, off the top of my head).
The druids/clerics and lay followers may not like the phenomena in humanoids and may use their religion as cudgel, but they can't argue it doesn't already exist in nature and serves some reproductive benefit.
Ah, but druids, of all humanoids, should already roll favorably on their Knowledge (Nature) checks and be aware of sequential hermaphrodism, protandry & protogyny, and opposite-sex mimicry for mating (garter snakes and cuttlefish, off the top of my head).
The druids/clerics and lay followers may not like the phenomena in humanoids and may use their religion as cudgel, but they can't argue it doesn't already exist in nature and serves some reproductive benefit.
First, don't get me wrong - I agree wholeheartedly with you on the point of order, from a modern and enlightened point of view.
However, on the gaming level, I am more inclined to believe, given my take on druids (an admittedly biased view at that), that Nature™ does not spill more information than is necessary, and as such such information might be known to druids of a specialization appropriate to said species (namely, aquatic druids being exceptionally open and tolerant compared to one from, say, a forest or a desert?), but outside of those environs it may or may not be knowledge, and certainly not common - much as in the real world. Corresponding to this, such qualities are certainly appropriate to the respective invertebrates or lower-order creatures, from such a vantage point, but the key point and conceit is that, to such believers, that's fine for THEM, but not for humans. Or, to put it more cheekily...
Neighboring Island Tribe Cleric: Hey! You people! Stop forcing yourself on that man!
Local Island Tribesman: Why should we listen to you? The druid says it's okay.
Local Island Druid: Hey, the dolphins practice rough sex on other males of their kin, it's all in good fun, leave them be.
Neighboring Island Tribe Cleric: There's NO CONSENT INVOLVED.
Local Island Druid: The dolphins don't ask either.
(And by no means am I intending to conflate homosexuality with rape - FAR from it. My point is that just because a druid knows of an occurrence of something in nature, doesn't mean that such applies to people, whatever the person's race. Dolphins do sometimes form rather indiscriminate roving bands of sexual aggressors, and while it can be referenced facetiously, like any other subject matter it would require that extra delicate hand if applied in any way other than a 'Family Guy Dolphin Rape Episode' way.)
|
2) Does the girdle only work on humanoids? Could a rancher/farmer raising horses or cattle use it to swap sexes of select specimens of his herd to maintain a proper breeding ratio? (Do steer/bulls command more/less money at market than cows?) A dairy farmer could keep an all cow lot to maximize production, then swap over the choicest cows into bulls when it's time to breed. Or, when attempting to breed them, the rancher/farmer could pair up to best specimens -- regardless of their birth sex -- to conceive the best possible offspring.
Everything but turtles and frogs can wear belts, according to Animal Archives, including horses and cattle.
On the other hand, some people might freak at the notion of eating meat from thaumaturgically altered animals, saying that it might affect their children's sexuality or even physical gender, or have other magical side-effects, like turning people into grimlocks or whatever...
Sort of a fantasy equivablent to 'too much hormones in the meat, feminizing our boys!' and the 'say no to geneetically modified franken-foods!' issue.