They did. Look at your download again, under the "Arcane Bond" class feature.
Yes, it's under the "Arcane Bond" feature for the Wizard.
EDIT: Curses... someone beat me to it... :op
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Yep. They did. I don't know if it's balanced well against a familiar though. Thoughts?
Try it? It seems, if anything, a better choice to me. If you make it spell-storing or somesuch I can see it being a very good trade indeed. Unfortunately, I don't have a regular group right now because schedules don't permit(isn't adult life with all of its many and varied time-eating responsibilities grand?), but I'd like to playtest some of this stuff with a group of veteran gamers. In eight hour chunks. For several weeks.
If you make it spell-storing or somesuch I can see it being a very good trade indeed.
It doesn't even need to be spell-storing... read the description- it holds one spell of any level you can cast, and you can enchant it at one-half cost (which I guess means one-quarter market price) as if you had ANY FEATS NECESSARY to do so...
So you can enchant it as a staff, a rod, an amulet, even a weapon. Heck, since there's already a precedent for it (Staff of Power), you can probably enchant it as a staff and a weapon!
Yep. They did. I don't know if it's balanced well against a familiar though. Thoughts?
Familiars are sufficiently terrible that they make a lousy benchmark for things replacing them.
With the 50% discount and emulation of all item creation feats, the Bonded Item is very, very powerful:
- You can have a Staff at low levels - imagine throwing 10+ Fireballs in a day at 5th level. You'll have to recharge it, sure, but it's an immense boost to your combat potential.
- You can create Rings at an early level. Most rings in Core are a bit sucky or require cleric spells (Spell Storing, Protection), but it may still be interesting, depending on what books you use.
- You can put each and every enchantment in one Ring/Amulet. Even with the +50% penalty for wrong slot and +50% penalty for multiple abilities, you still are at the cost level of a regular item - but they all use only one slot!
So, basically, a Bonded Item gives you
a.) additional spell reserves (Staff),
b.) almost unlimited slots (Ring/Amulet) or
c.) a little combination of both if you add powers (e. g. Armor AC, Deflection AC, Energy Resistance, Strength) to a Staff.
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Because you still need to cast the spells necessary for enchanting, it's not really good as a one level dip unless you want to spend a lot of money on scrolls.
There might however be a loophole with cooperative creation, as IIRC only one of several characters cooperating to create item needs to have all the prerequisites. Gets a little exploity in that area, though.
It gets a bit weird when you add a level of Wizard to a Cleric. Weapons/Rings for half price is really, really good for Clerics, and nothing in the rules stops him from using his cleric spells / caster level to enchant his bonded item.
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It gets a bit weird when you add a level of Wizard to a Cleric. Weapons/Rings for half price is really, really good for Clerics, and nothing in the rules stops him from using his cleric spells / caster level to enchant his bonded item.
Man I hadn't even thought of that and I bet neither has Jason, that sounds more like oversight than intention.
Yeah, the Bonded Item is extremely powerful. Let me put it to you with an example. I have a 7th level Gnome Wizard bonded to a staff who is a little obsessed with fey, so many of his spells use illusion or echantment. So, with his bonded item, he gets:
- 1 free 4th-level or lower spell per day (way better than a feat [Extra Slot])
- 10 charges, to be used between:
- Greater Invisibility (1 charge)
- Faerie Shape I [a polymorph spell I made to truen into fey] (1 charge)
- Extended Charm Person (1 charge)
- Ventriloquism (1 charge)
Guess how much said staff cost? 7(4(400) + 3(300) + 2(200) + 1(200))/2 = 10850 gp. That's approximately 10K gp for 10 free spell slots of spells I oftne use. To increase the caster level to my own next level, all I have to do is pay 8(1085o)/7 - 10850 gp = 1550 gp. Do realise how cheap this is?
Why would I ever waht a familiar again?
I too would tone them down:
1) instead of casting any one spell, let the wizard prepare one additional spell into his bonded object.
2) instead of letting the wizard improve his BO without feats AND at half the normal cost, instead let him enchant it at half the cost and half the time but WITH the need for the appropriate feats.
I too would tone them down:
1) instead of casting any one spell, let the wizard prepare one additional spell into his bonded object.
2) instead of letting the wizard improve his BO without feats AND at half the normal cost, instead let him enchant it at half the cost and half the time but WITH the need for the appropriate feats.
I'd suggest:
1) Make it like a free Pearl of Power for the highest level you can cast. Therefore, not just any spell you know, ut any you have prepared and already cast.2) Making the need for the feat is really bad for staff users, so I say just half the cost and half the time. However, by "half the cost," I mean half the full price, as if you were making it normally. If you also take the feat, then a total of a quarter of the cost.
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Yeah, the Bonded Item is extremely powerful. Let me put it to you with an example. I have a 7th level Gnome Wizard bonded to a staff who is a little obsessed with fey, so many of his spells use illusion or echantment. So, with his bonded item, he gets:
- 1 free 4th-level or lower spell per day (way better than a feat [Extra Slot])
- 10 charges, to be used between:
- Greater Invisibility (1 charge)
- Faerie Shape I [a polymorph spell I made to truen into fey] (1 charge)
- Extended Charm Person (1 charge)
- Ventriloquism (1 charge)Guess how much said staff cost? 7(4(400) + 3(300) + 2(200) + 1(200))/2 = 10850 gp. That's approximately 10K gp for 10 free spell slots of spells I oftne use. To increase the caster level to my own next level, all I have to do is pay 8(1085o)/7 - 10850 gp = 1550 gp. Do realise how cheap this is?
Why would I ever waht a familiar again?
I'm not sure that just doesn't sound right, are you recharging it on a one charge basis and using an average price for each charge? or racharging when its used up so that its a all at once fee, also I'm not used to staves having such varied levels of spells and each only using 1 charge.
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1) Make it like a free Pearl of Power for the highest level you can cast. Therefore, not just any spell you know, ut any you have prepared and already cast.
2) Making the need for the feat is really bad for staff users, so I say just half the cost and half the time. However, by "half the cost," I mean half the full price, as if you were making it normally. If you also take the feat, then a total of a quarter of the cost.
Yes.
I'd add the appropriate item creation feat as a prerequisite for further enhancing the bonded item. Pathfinder characters get plenty of feats anyway, and wizards even more so.
I think it's pretty much okay right now.
A little fixing for the multiclassing aspect might be wise, altough taking even a single level of another to get better items is tough for a primary caster. The Mystic Theurg really profits, but on the other hand, he doesn't get all the Domain and Schools powers in PRPG, so a little boost in power isn't unbalanced.
I especially like that it gives Wizards the opportunity to craft Staffs. Staffs are the traditional "weapon" for wizards in D&D and fiction, but in D&D3.5, you can't craft them until very high levels - and those don't get played too often, anyhow.
Even now, I don't know any PC wizard who uses a (magic or non-magic) staff, and with the free MWP humans get in Pathfinder, the situation will swing even more to swords and other "fighter stuff" in wizards' hands.
Of course, this could also be fixed by just lowering the really weird CL requirements for Craft Staff and Forge Ring (compare to Craft Wondrous Item, which can pretty much emulate both).
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Looking at Gnome Ninja's price calculation, I wonder: A Staff cannot be created with a Caster Level below 8. Normally, that's not a problem, as the feat requires a CL >> 8. But what CL does a Bonded Item Staff have?
Can a 1st level wizard give it a CL of...
a.) 1, circumventing the CL minimum, or
b.) 8, due to the feat emulation?
Both, I think, are pretty weird, as option a.) allows the creation or really cheap Staffs with a CL of 1 (it uses the user's own CL, anyhow) and b.) gives quite boost in CL at low levels (at the price of increased cost, of course).
A little fixing for the multiclassing aspect might be wise, altough taking even a single level of another to get better items is tough for a primary caster. The Mystic Theurg really profits, but on the other hand, he doesn't get all the Domain and Schools powers in PRPG, so a little boost in power isn't unbalanced.I especially like that it gives Wizards the opportunity to craft Staffs. Staffs are the traditional "weapon" for wizards in D&D and fiction, but in D&D3.5, you can't craft them until very high levels - and those don't get played too often, anyhow.
I respectfully disagree. The pre-reqs for Craft Staff is Caster Level 12. I do not feel that level 12 is very high level, but I can understand that some campaigns may rarely break level 10 or so.
In any event, the staff could still be enchanted as a weapon by Caster Level 5.
In my opinion, the best fix for multi-classing is to require the Wizard to meet the caster level requirements for emulated crafting feats.
The Practiced Spellcaster feat, while not OGL, helps prevent multiclass casters from being unduly penalized.
Unfortunately, the bonded item raises a number of questions... and we've gotten no official responses on anything (I've started 2 threads on this subject, once in the Alpha 1 forum, and then in Alpha 2).
The lack of guidance on things like requirements other than creation feats is a little troublesome. Another issue that pops up is "spells known" - a wizard knows any spell in his spellbook... and can put spells into his spellbook of a higher level than he can cast (assuming he can find them and make the spellcraft check). So, can a wizard use his bonded object to cast those spells? As written, it seems yes.
But, even with the unanswered questions, the bonded item seems to me to be a great choice. A defending staff or spellstriking staff (or better yet, one end defending, one end spellstriking) is certainly helpful... then turn that into a staff or maybe later a staff of power for all sorts of AC benefits, extra spells. Throw in spellstoring for another free spell.
I built a level 20 wizard for a short game, I had a 64,700 gp staff as a bonded item. +3 Defending Staff of power. Very nice, and very affordable!
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Actually, the cohort of my current character has an Imp as an Improved Familiar. The Imp is so powerful in scouting that the party rogue complained about being overshadowed by the sidekick's sidekick.
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The ability to acquire animal familiars is... dubious. But it enables you to get one of the greatest feats in the game: improved Familiar.
There are many hidden qualities in Familiar Imps:
- Imps get a really respectable AC. They start out at 20, and funnily, the AC boni for regular familiars apply to them, too. Mage Armor, Amulet of Natural Armor, Ring of Protection, Mithral Buckler/Shield Spell, Dex booster and you'll easily hit 30. They don't have armor proficiency, but if you really want to spend some money, give him a mithral chain shirt+x.
- Share Spell allows to cast "Target: You" on your familiar. False Life, Shield, True Strike, Contigengcy, Blink, Fire Shield, Mirror Image, Shapechange you get the picture.
Share Spell also allows to cast spells on him that work on you, but not on outsiders. I think that's only useful for Enlarge Person in Core, but I'd bet there are other uses.
- Imps, as outsiders, have MWP and hands. Thus, they can use shortbows, which makes them flying, hart-to-hit, fast-healing and possibly invisble. Pretty much the miniature stealth combat drone of the medieval age.
- Familiars can use your skills. Not very useful for something without hands, but... think of what good can be done with Use Magic Device. Give your familiar a wand, and he gets an even better combat drone.
- They have a Dex-dmg-poison with a respectable DC. For calculating the Save DC, you use the creature's Hit Dice. A familiar can use the wizard's HD for any purpose, which apparently includes the Save DC. Also, a Con booster is nice here. In the end, the poison will have a Save DC similar to your spells, and does damage to an attribute that's often very weak in monsters (e. g. dragons, giants). Hitting is a problem, but flanking, invisibility and the Wizard's BAB can help with that.
- They can cast Commune. Okay, that's not hard to notice, but the sheer adventure-corrupting power of an xp-cost-free commune just deserves mentioning.
- Imps, as outsiders, don't have to sleep. As they're completely loyal and can make themselves invisible, they are near perfect sentries.
- Imps are reaaaaally strong. Although being only two feet tall and weighing eight pounds, they can arm-wrestle with an average human. Okay, more of a curiousity but a hidden power.
If you pump some money into your imp, he can be a competent combatant. He won't outdamage the rogue or outtank the fighter, but hey, he's only a class feature. ;-)
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Yep. They did. I don't know if it's balanced well against a familiar though. Thoughts?Try it? It seems, if anything, a better choice to me. If you make it spell-storing or somesuch I can see it being a very good trade indeed. Unfortunately, I don't have a regular group right now because schedules don't permit(isn't adult life with all of its many and varied time-eating responsibilities grand?), but I'd like to playtest some of this stuff with a group of veteran gamers. In eight hour chunks. For several weeks.Timespike, If you can't get a game in RL, what about a PBP? seekerofshadowlight and me are running/playing a gladiatorial PBP as a means of playtesting the PRPG. We're desperately short of players and would like you, or anyone else whos interested in playtesting to join us here.
/shameless plug
I'm actually going to be in an RotRL PbP pretty soon, here. I may still throw something together for yours this weekend. If I can't get a face-to-face game, I may as well PbP as much as I can to keep my skills sharp!
I'm not sure that just doesn't sound right, are you recharging it on a one charge basis and using an average price for each charge? or racharging when its used up so that its a all at once fee, also I'm not used to staves having such varied levels of spells and each only using 1 charge.
I think you're confusing new and old rules for recharging. He recharges it with his spells between adventures. Also, I have one spell each of 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th levels on. Everytime he learns a new spell level or gains a level, he improves it accordingly with a new spell or CL increase.
Actually, the cohort of my current character has an Imp as an Improved Familiar. The Imp is so powerful in scouting that the party rogue complained about being overshadowed by the sidekick's sidekick.
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The ability to acquire animal familiars is... dubious. But it enables you to get one of the greatest feats in the game: improved Familiar.
There are many hidden qualities in Familiar Imps:
- Imps get a really respectable AC. They start out at 20, and funnily, the AC boni for regular familiars apply to them, too. Mage Armor, Amulet of Natural Armor, Ring of Protection, Mithral Buckler/Shield Spell, Dex booster and you'll easily hit 30. They don't have armor proficiency, but if you really want to spend some money, give him a mithral chain shirt+x.
- Share Spell allows to cast "Target: You" on your familiar. False Life, Shield, True Strike, Contigengcy, Blink, Fire Shield, Mirror Image, Shapechange you get the picture.
Share Spell also allows to cast spells on him that work on you, but not on outsiders. I think that's only useful for Enlarge Person in Core, but I'd bet there are other uses.<snip>
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Imps and Coure Eladrins and some dragon familiars are extremely powerful. Tongues, Invisibility, Polymorph, incorporeality at will; mix these two you spell B-R-O-K-E.
The Share Spell point is a good one. I think the Bonded Item and Familiars are actually on par for power, both having a lot of it. I mean, think of Body of War: you casting spells alongside your now-warforged-titaned familar...Also, don't forget talking familiars can use wands. Yay for ravens.
Imps and Coure Eladrins and some dragon familiars are extremely powerful. Tongues, Invisibility, Polymorph, incorporeality at will; mix these two you spell B-R-O-K-E.
The Share Spell point is a good one. I think the Bonded Item and Familiars are actually on par for power, both having a lot of it. I mean, think of Body of War: you casting spells alongside your now-warforged-titaned familar...
Also, don't forget talking familiars can use wands. Yay for ravens.
While far less optimized, the deliver touch spell feature, when combined with a Mystic Theurge and a Tiny or smaller familiar, can be quite useful, as they can occupy the space square as their target.
This is my first post on these boards, so be gentle.
I've been running a campaign and one of the pcs is an abjurer/red wizard [i've made the prohibitions real and kept the bonus spell per level and tied in the sla & su as class abilities]. My understanding of the rules (which is how I've been using them) is that with a bonded item one must still meet all requirements save item creation requirements (similar to monks qualifying for stunning fist at first level); therefore, a wand is the only thing usable before third level if you want to enchant it [staves wouldn't be useful until 8L (just ditch the old one once you hit 8)].
Now, the abilities of a familiar are tied to the class level of the wizard or sorcerer. To allow someone to cercumvent this by choosing a bonded item didn't seem to make much sense; therefore, I require that the "caster level" used to enchant an item is the class level in wizard or anyother class that gives the arcane bond ability. Example: the above mentioned pc is an abjurer 5/redwizard 2. He is able to enchant his focus (a ring) as a ring of protection +1 [there is no need for the CL 12 for forge ring since he is assumed to have it; the minimum CL is 3 times the bonus; since he is only considered to have CL 5, he is unable to make a +2 ring of protection].
The exception that I have come up with is that if the caster actually takes the item creation feat, then all casting levels stack to determine the benefit [similar to the acquire familiar feat in Complete Arcane].
