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Disclaimer: this is NOT intended to be flamebait! I figure enough time has passed where this can be discussed somewhat rationally.
My reaction to the 4E announcement when I saw it was a mix of shock and disappointment. It's not that I would have always minded a 4th edition, I just felt (and still do; I'm going with Pathfinder) that 3rd edition had a lot more life in it, and I would have liked to have seen WotC "finish" a few of its sub-lines before moving on. For example: 3 final "complete" books, one for incarnum, a second one for warrior types, and a guide to multiclassing (since it's such a popular option in 3e), a Fiendish Codex III on Yugoloths, and similar books on celestials, fey, constructs, and giants, a "races of" book for orcs and goblinoids, environment books for forests(including swamps and jungles in this one would have been fine with me) and mountains, BoVD/BoED book or books for Law & Chaos (combine the two or do one for each; either way I'd have been happy), and a "Heroes of Intrigue" book (similar to the Horror & War books) on running espionage/political games. In other words, about another year's worth of product. If they'd put all of that out I would have had an easier time accepting that the current edition was tapped and it was a logical time to move on. I still might not have, but at least the shock would have been diminished. As it turned out, I wound up feeling something like one feels when you find out a good friend is moving halfway across the country on short notice; it's not like you'll never see them again, but it's jarring and the relationship is altered.
This feeling was a large part of why I was so excited about the Pathfinder RPG release. I'm just now, at a level of approximately one bookcase of material, getting really, truly comfortable with the current rules. I have more than I strictly need, but the excess allows me greater creative freedom than I'd have otherwise, and I'd be loath to go from over 200 books to draw on back down to 3.
I was not opposed to a new edition in principle and was even somewhat excited, even though I suspected it would not be exactly to my taste, but the more I learned about 4E, the more I began to dislike the direction it was taking both in terms of rules and in terms of flavor.
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I was not opposed to a new edition in principle and was even somewhat excited, even though I suspected it would not be exactly to my taste, but the more I learned about 4E, the more I began to dislike the direction it was taking both in terms of rules and in terms of flavor.
Roman hit it dead on the head for me. Originally I was "Cool! I love 3d..." but as I started to take a look I started to feel bad. The changes in the conceptual parts make it NOT feel like D&D to me, regardless of what others may say. The overall flavor of the core system campaign setting, the rules and everything distinctly feel 'not-D&D'. I've heard others say "You still kill monsters, loot treasure, and level up...", but isn't that truth for almost any other RPG out there? They can't ALL be D&D based upon that definition.
I will say this though, I haven't been this excited about gaming in AGES. I've dusted off all my notes, subscribed to everything Paizo I could find, and we've been playing. Regularly. I haven't played Regularly since 1995! Wheee!
For me, its a GREAT time to be gaming! Lots of excitement (some negative) but it's really kicking me off my butt and getting back into the trenches - and that is a very good thing, regardless of the rules set.
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At the time 4e was announced, I had no idea what the changes would be made. But, nevertheless, I didn't like the idea of a new edition so soon, as a new set of books isn't really in the budget. Plus I am comfortable with 3.5 as it is.
But finding out more about 4.0 only convinced me that I was making the right decision. That is to wait until something better comes along.
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I was not opposed to a new edition in principle and was even somewhat excited, even though I suspected it would not be exactly to my taste, but the more I learned about 4E, the more I began to dislike the direction it was taking both in terms of rules and in terms of flavor.Roman hit it dead on the head for me. Originally I was "Cool! I love 3d..." but as I started to take a look I started to feel bad. The changes in the conceptual parts make it NOT feel like D&D to me, regardless of what others may say. The overall flavor of the core system campaign setting, the rules and everything distinctly feel 'not-D&D'. I've heard others say "You still kill monsters, loot treasure, and level up...", but isn't that truth for almost any other RPG out there? They can't ALL be D&D based upon that definition.
I will say this though, I haven't been this excited about gaming in AGES. I've dusted off all my notes, subscribed to everything Paizo I could find, and we've been playing. Regularly. I haven't played Regularly since 1995! Wheee!
For me, its a GREAT time to be gaming! Lots of excitement (some negative) but it's really kicking me off my butt and getting back into the trenches - and that is a very good thing, regardless of the rules set.
What they said !
What they said !I was not opposed to a new edition in principle and was even somewhat excited, even though I suspected it would not be exactly to my taste, but the more I learned about 4E, the more I began to dislike the direction it was taking both in terms of rules and in terms of flavor.Roman hit it dead on the head for me. Originally I was "Cool! I love 3d..." but as I started to take a look I started to feel bad. The changes in the conceptual parts make it NOT feel like D&D to me, regardless of what others may say. The overall flavor of the core system campaign setting, the rules and everything distinctly feel 'not-D&D'. I've heard others say "You still kill monsters, loot treasure, and level up...", but isn't that truth for almost any other RPG out there? They can't ALL be D&D based upon that definition.
I will say this though, I haven't been this excited about gaming in AGES. I've dusted off all my notes, subscribed to everything Paizo I could find, and we've been playing. Regularly. I haven't played Regularly since 1995! Wheee!
For me, its a GREAT time to be gaming! Lots of excitement (some negative) but it's really kicking me off my butt and getting back into the trenches - and that is a very good thing, regardless of the rules set.
well said I feel the same way.
I vacillated between indifference and mild interest. What interested me was the reaction of other people.
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But seriously, what's the likelihood that WotC may actually have pulled off something that is really cool and different in the P&P RPG market?
I still don't have an answer to that one. No one really will until June, as near as I can tell. Honestly, I'm pensive about it. I'd really like to know what the actual game is going to look like, but the promotional material is filled to brimming with "but this may change before release" disclaimers. Sitting here saying "I love it" or "It's going to suck" seems about as random as making snap judgments about what Pathfinder RPG was going to look like based on the 1.1 Alpha Release.
Oh...wait. People have actually done that. ^_^
First off, I think the chance that 4E is going to be a good game is high. I think it is going to be popular, and its going to be enjoyed by a lot of people.
However, this thread isn't about prognosticating how well the game is going to be received, but rather - How did YOU react? That throws the discussion completely outside the bounds of rational debate and into the chaotic, ever-churning waters of snap decisions and other assorted emotionally-charged thought processes. How did I feel? Here's how ...
I am willing to wait to see what the final product is going to be (indeed, I've actually pre-purchased my books), but there are some distinct elements that are out there that are final enough for me to say "I don't particularly care for them":
- Initial book races
- Defined character "roles" in the group
- Initial book classes
- Poor management of the DDI materials up to now (specifically the magazine content and the continually espoused '3.5 is crap' attitude by some members of the staff)
- The concept that yes, there are cool 3d virtual minis for the forthcoming DDI virtual table, but you will be restricted to using 2d "punch-out" counters unless you buy the minis. You are supposed to get some sort of sampler pack, but you're going to have to pay more than just the DDI subscription charge (currently $14.95 a month, or less in bulk month purchases) to fully enjoy the DDI tools. I'm still waiting to see if there are more "hidden costs"
- The odd concept that it is okay to "demonic-fy" almost EVERYTHING from race to class to powers to soul-crushing dieties and monsters, but the potential dubious background of how the half-orc comes into existance is too morally sensitive a subject matter? (I'm still more than a tad confused about that one ...)
Always understand - you may LOVE all the things I don't. That's the joy of personal preference, and I won't begrudge your choice, or even argue it with you! Instead, I'll pat you on the back and ask nicely if you can pass the salsa - our game is going great over here, can't wait to hear you tell me about yours over there!
Ooops - got to make a Perception roll ... I'll get back to you ...
Ever since they pulled the plug on the Dungeon and Dragon magazines and took them on-line, I have fell out of love with Wizards. I do a lot of my reading on the toilet, I kid you not, it is the only place I can get some peace. I do not want to have to take a lap top into the lavatory every time I want to read an article or adventure.
I hear good things from people who have played 4th edition in the play tests, but for me I can't seem to shake off the feeling that it is heading in a direction that I don't like. I polled my group of 7 players and all of them are more than happy to stay with Pathfinder and be part of its development and play test. One of the casual players surprised me by saying that we might as well buy the beta books when they are released, so the switch is not a money issue.
It's been a geological speed roller coaster for me. I was expecting another patch to 3.5, not an entirely new game system. It reminded me of the 'mock' headline in the TORG forums - "TORG Timeline Ends. Three hundred dollars of gaming books now useless." But I still use flavor and background text from 2nd edition books, so why not?
Then I was thrilled by what I learned of 4th Ed. Look at the versatility, the elegant mechanics, the re-envisioning of formerly cardboard races.
Right now, I'm lurking on what I DON'T know about 4Ed. There's enough room between the shiny facets to have something boneheaded that I'll burn before I let it on my shelf.
The bottom line is I'll probably buy 4 Ed, but I'm going to read it well and thoroughly before I run a game, and I'll understand chargen and combat before I play it.
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My initial reaction was: Cool, what are they going to change?
Then they released the new cleric/wizard "spell slots" and I thought: Neat, that makes casting different depending on what the spell is like.
Then I saw the "fighter powers": Man, I hated Book of Nine Swords.
Then I saw the monster changes: Wha? Why bother?
But the biggest point that made me realize I love 3rd Edition was the first marketing video, where they basically called anyone who used 3rd Edition mechanics a Troglodyte (playing an outdated game with broken mechanics).
And I thought: What? Wait, didn't you SELL me those mechanics? Then I started looking at what "they" wanted to change in 4th Edition, and I realized:
- I don't find the grapple rules confusing
- I enjoy the timid early levels where death lurks around any corner
- I love getting to the upper levels, where you realize you are nearly a god, and compared to 1st level you are
- I like swinging a sword every round
- I like planning what spells I will use, and when to use them, and when I run out, I join the fray just like everyone else in the party
- I like rolling my own saving throws
- I like tactical combat. Problems with duration, get an egg-timer.
- Numerous other complaints of 3rd Edition are negligable
I'm happy for those that are excited for 4E and for Wizards themselves. Beyond that, I don't care.
I bailed on 3x years ago and moved to another system entirely. I was somewhat excited at the prospect of a new D&D edition that supposedly was going to be more balanced, less rules heavy and complex (those being our main complaints about 3rd edition). However, the more I've read about 4th Edition, the less and less it sounds like a game that I'd be interested in running or playing.
Disclaimer: this is NOT intended to be flamebait! I figure enough time has passed where this can be discussed somewhat rationally.
My reaction to the 4E announcement when I saw it was a mix of shock and disappointment. It's not that I would have always minded a 4th edition, I just felt (and still do; I'm going with Pathfinder) that 3rd edition had a lot more life in it, and I would have liked to have seen WotC "finish" a few of its sub-lines before moving on.
I am assuming you are talking about the 17 April announcement from WotC about the GSL. I felt this was poor damage control on WotC's part. All they really did is release dates for future milestones. They gave nothing really concrete to the 3rd Party Publishers.
I felt the 3.5 line was pretty complete and I did not need more books. I like that 3.5 is ending. This allows me to complete my 3.5 collection since WotC is done. I would not have minded the books Timespike mentioned. However, when I look at my bookshelf I see enough and no gaps in subject matter.
I just want to get PRPG so I can feel my collection is useful, harmonious and evolving. I do not want my collection to get bigger, just better.
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At first, I thought, "Cool, I wonder what it's going to be like? What will they change?." Then they started letting out flavor and mechanics tidbits. Every single one made me more and more dissatisfied with what I was hearing. I wanted to like it, but all the distatseful changes I heard about made that next to impossible. To be honest, I was still ticked about them killing the magazines (I'm still ticked about what they did to the mags, and I don't see that changing anytime soon), so that might have colored my opinion a bit. Now that we know enough about the rules to the point where people are actually playing 4E games, I know that my worst fears about the system are realized. They have eliminated thirty years of tradition and lore. They have destroyed the Forgotten Realms, and killed Greyhawk to pillage it for gods and famous dungeons. They have taken a wonderful RPG and turned in into a miniatures wargame where everyone has roles to play in their warband, everyone shifts squares all over the battlemat, and everything revolves around squares (reach, speed, ranges,etc.) I truly believe that the desingers no longer like D&D, so they made a game they would like. It may be a decent game. I may play it every now and then for a break in between campaigns, but this new game will never be and can never replace D&D. Long live Pathfinder!
My first thought was "those lying bastards!" since I was under the (apparently false) impression that WotC had reportedly stated at the 2007 D&D Experience that there was no 4E through 2008.
Upon hearing Scott Rouse say that that no, they didn't actually say that, but that he knew it was misinterpreted, my thought was "those deceptive bastards!"
It's gone downhill from there. :)
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My first reaction? Pretty darn pissed that there would not be a Fiendish Codex III: Hidden Lords of Gehenna (or at least FC3: Fiends, Fiends, Fiends! - a book of all the rest), a Complete Warrior II with a 3.5 update for the Marshall as well as support for Tome of Battle, a Races of the Horde (for Orcs and Goblinoids), or a Forest and Jungle counterpart to the other environment books (Frostburn, Sandstorm, etc.). There also could have been a Fey counterpart to Draconomicon, Libtris Mortis, etc. without really upsetting me.
Then I started to read about where they were taking the game and what they were doing with it, mechanically. Immediately turned me off 4e. I still thought I might find some things in the core books worth looting for a 3.X game... but eventually as more and more details leaked out, I just got totally disgusted with the RPG WotC was calling 4e. It wasn't even D&D anymore. Had the brand name, but none of the more or less consistent worldview that had largely been kept the same since 1979. The planes were gone, and in their place was this junky mess of Astral domains and an Elemental Chaos and whatnot.
After the D&D XP previews, I had had enough with what I had seen of the mechanics, even if the setting wasn't off-putting enough as it was. I canceled my pre-order from Amazon since it seemed like there wasn't even going to be enough in the books to be worth $30 for the whole set, let alone $65, and moved on with my own attempts at a 3.5 fix. Then Paizo announced Pathfinder with pretty much the same ideas I was toying around with, so now all I'm doing is sitting back and waiting for the various alpha releases of Pathfinder to come out.
I will admit that the last week of WotC's previews have made me at least rethink my position on 4e as a total waste of my time and money. Still nothing I'd remotely want to run or play in, but maybe it'll be worth picking up used sometime.
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What a great thread. I was sitting in the announcement hall at GenCon last August with my wife, our two daughters and 4 gamers who share my game table. We were all buttered up with D&D t-shirts and D&D jump drives. I was telling everyone “I keep seeing the number 4 all around, but, it’s impossible. James Wyatt himself at a seminar just last year said that R&D would be just as happy if 3.5 outlived all other editions’ timelines put together and that no work was being done on a new edition”. They then made the 4e announcement and showed the stupid video. Someone in the room clapped, someone coughed, and a lot of heads looked around confused.
The four players at my table said they’d meet us at the local brewery, and they literally walked out right then and there. My wife’s eyes were huge as she shook her head with disbelief. Me? I had the same reaction as others on here – “3e has just begun to shine! It’s so…young! There's still so much to explore and do, and…” and then after another few minutes of hearing WotC folks deliver some of the poorest, stammering spoken words since my 3rd grade verbal report day, my family packed up and we left.
A quicker, easier decision has never been made for me or my players…and the best part? My opinion has never once changed even slightly, specifically because everything WotC’s said and released since then has just hammered home the point that 4e is pointless to me. Good luck boys! 3.5 Alive.
-DM Jeff
I wasn't surprised at the announcement, but some of the changes I didn't like too much.
But I should note that I wasn't that crazy about 2nd edition to start with; my experience with D&D versions is "one edition of famine, followed by one edition of feast":
Basic D&D - famine (fighter, thief, cleric, MUser, and demi-humans)
AD&D - feast! (illusionist! druid! ranger! monk! paladin! barbarian! assassin! lots of races! psionics!)
2nd Ed. - famine (no druid, monk, barbarian, assassin, psionics...until the appropriate "kit" comes out in a splatbook)
3/3.5rd Ed. - feast! (druid...again! monk...again! barbarian...again! sorcerer! prestige classes! tons and tons of splatbooks! psionics...like you've never seen them before!)
4th Ed. - famine (no druid, monk, barbarian, assassin, psionics, prestige classes...maybe later)
So according to this pattern, I'll LOVE the 5th Edition! I suspect I'll warm up to 4th Edition eventually though; maybe after a year or so, when they've had time to put out some splatbooks.
For me? Zero change.
I was fence-sitting, basically with the opinion that 4th ed had to impress me enough to make the switch. I did however get excited about new material...I always do.
When the D&DXP came out, I was disheartened when looking at the whole system preview. There are just some things I don't like and probably never will about it (but that's another thread). I decided not to buy it and at the same time kind of felt left out of the excitement of the changes by not liking many of them enough not to want to switch.
Then Paizo announced it's Alpha. I looked at those changes and at the 4th ed changes, then thought about the products I've bought from both companies over the past 2 years.
The decision was then made easy, and as long as Paizo hasn't cancelled their plans, nothing really changes for me or for most I guess.
I was sooo disappointed about the Dragon/Dungeon mags going "online only". But then Pathfinder was announced and I was excited. I love RotRL! Archmages do make the awesome BBEGs.
Then they announce 4e, about 2 years too early in my opinion.
My group had switched from the RCR Star Wars to Saga Star Wars with a lot of anticipation earlier last year. We ate up every morsel of info before the release, bought the oddly shaped book as soon as it was out. Well. Then we played that system, and while so far we are sticking with it in theory (haven't played it in months), I for one really don't care for the changes.
I miss VP/WP. I miss the skill-heavy Force powers. I miss having my library of feats, ships, weapons available for use as-is. I miss adding some skill points to random skills, instead of having a narrow selection available. My ARC used to have a smattering of skills, now he's solid at only a handful.
So 4e to me sounded like Saga was coming to D&D. So my gut reaction was a big fat DO NOT WANT!!!
Then I read about it, and it sounds pretty meh overall to me. Meanwhile Paizo is rocking out with new product, great customer service, etc. The flavor changes in 4e REALLY annoyed me, again at a gut level, and with Pathfinder's flavor remaining unchanged AND sticking with 3.x, my decision was made.
I will probably buy the 4e DMG, to complete my Basic>1e>2e>3.0>3.5 DMG collection. But I have been sending Paizo my gaming dollars month over month for a while now, and plan on keeping that up. The Pathfinder RPG has me giddy in the way I haven't been in a long, long time.
Director of Brand Strategy
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I was super excited last August when 4e was announced. I had just begun a short-lived homebrew campaign, and was already trying to plan some cataclysmic cosmic event that would enable me to justify retconning every character and the whole world in June when I converted everything over. Then I started seeing the 4e previews and feel that I've got a better grasp on it than most non-WotC staff (read into that what you will...) Now that I recognize that the system is well designed but just not at all the type of system I want to play, and certainly not that kind that I believe will support story-format gaming (such as that which Paizo so excels at producing) I have moved from enthusiasm to downright disdain for 4e. Part of this is based on WotC's complete disregard for the traditions of the game, and the opinions or concerns of their customer base, and part of it is because I don't think they system is/will be particularly fun for me. Sure, combats will be faster and there will be less theoretical bookkeeping (especially for the DM), I find that I can't support or back a system founded on the back of a 30 year tradition being washed down the drain, and a transparent desire to draw in a younger crowd motivate a company to push away its already established customer base. I am currently debating not even buying the core books in June, since I am fairly certain I'll never use them, and won't really even read them. I want to be able to continue to say that I "play D&D," but at this point I am of the mind that 4e is going to lower what that means and tarnish it in the eyes of others (the same way right-wing Christian nutjobs give more moderate Christians a bad name, or GWB lowers my standing as an American in the eyes of people all over the world).
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So according to this pattern, I'll LOVE the 5th Edition! (D&D, not the musical group)
Ha! Beautiful!
I was very verbally outspoken against it and my opinion hasn't swayed in the slightest. My trust and anticipation for 4E is a complete flatline. I expect it to be bad for gaming overall, but that's just my opinion and expectations.
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I've gone though many "stages" since the announcment.
Interested, disappointed, angry, disappointed again, bored, bothered by useless flames, taken by something else.
Now, I'm in the "couldn't care less" nirvana, in which anything 4E is examined for interesting tidbits to pilfer for house-rules, but mostly is ignored or forgotten after a very quick read.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I was at the big announcement at Gen Con 2007, and I was actually pretty excited. I continued to get excited with the first teases of information about 4E (races meaning more, weapons working differently based on type i.e. sword vs. axe vs. spear). However as more information started coming out about the core mechanics and changes, I rapidly became more and more dissolusioned, and eventually decided that 4E isn't going to be the game for me. Before Pathfinder RPG was announced, I had already decided I wasn't going to convert (though I do plan on playing in the D&D Open at Gen Con 2008 to try it out with the full rules instead of just a demo).
After seeing Pathfinder Alpha part 1, I feel that this is much more what I wanted in a new edition. My biggest dissapointment with 4E is that most of the new design philosophies used for it are 100% opposite of the way I want a game designed.
I was not opposed to a new edition in principle and was even somewhat excited, even though I suspected it would not be exactly to my taste, but the more I learned about 4E, the more I began to dislike the direction it was taking both in terms of rules and in terms of flavor.
^This.
The flavor thing was the biggest kick in the arse for me. Too much splat taking places of the classics.
The more I heard about the rules changes, the more I found this game going somewhere I wasnt following.
The 4E flavor issue was a dealbreaker, then the rules just took the broken pieces and disintegrated them completely.
My initial reaction was "Oh no!" - and only because I thought that my 3.5e game would lose support. I had just moved over from 3e to 3.5e and was glad to be back in the "supported" camp, after seeing so much 3.5e stuff on the shelf I couldn't use.
But then realisation hit (and this was before Pathfinder RPG was announced). I have so much stuff (3 full APs plus lots of extra stuff) lying around for 3.5e that I can play it, with pregen adventures, for many years and not have to worry about it.
That's when I started getting interested in seeing what 4e was about.
Greg
My impressions echo much of what TieflimarBard said. Initially, I had a gut-reaction of negativity. Then I rationalized to myself; "It shouldn't be that bad...think about 3E. You were dead-set against it until you saw the previews of changes in Dragon. The more you read, the more you liked. Give it a chance."
So I did. Dragon and Dungeon become incorporated into the Wizards website, so off to the website I went, checking various sneak peeks as they were released. Then I started to notice how...vague they were. I felt like they had nothing to tell me and that they were filling space with general outlines. It felt like one of my students trying to b.s. me with an "idea" for a paper due in two days that they haven't even started yet. Still, I held out hope.
Eventually, the crunch started being released. Much of it had me scratching my head. The few shiny new rules that impressed me were very small mechanics; they were the type of thing you used as updates to current rules, not the types of things that you scrap an entire game and build a new version for (i.e. hit points and dying rules). I noticed that the video commentary from the designers sounded...smug, and at times condescending. They were telling me they knew what they were doing and to trust them. I hear this from the government all the time. Let me tell you fellas, that line doesn't make me feel comfortable.
Now, I'm beyond caring. 4E will come out and I'll be oblivious to it. I have shelves of books that allow me to continue to immerse my players in worlds of adventure on a weekly basis. Once Pathfinder is released, that will join the rest and do its job. I'll be proud to own it, due in no small part to the fact that Paizo and its people are putting it out for people like me, people who love Dungeons & Dragons.
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Then I started looking at what "they" wanted to change in 4th Edition, and I realized:
- I don't find the grapple rules confusing
- I enjoy the timid early levels where death lurks around any corner
- I love getting to the upper levels, where you realize you are nearly a god, and compared to 1st level you are
- I like swinging a sword every round
- I like planning what spells I will use, and when to use them, and when I run out, I join the fray just like everyone else in the party
- I like rolling my own saving throws
- I like tactical combat. Problems with duration, get an egg-timer.
- Numerous other complaints of 3rd Edition are negligable
This is where I'm at too. I looked at the list of complaints, decided that I had no problem with most of them and just moved on. I haven't been to the 4E threads, Gleemax or any of the other 4E websites - I just couldn't care less.
My first reaction was that it was too soon for a new edition. I didn't really become opposed to 4e until the specific rule changes started coming out and I realized that I hated them without exception.
The trashing of the Forgotten Realms was the final straw that closed my mind entirely to the idea of 4e.
I thought why can't they continue to produce products for 3.5 and 4.0? There will be a market for both.
We have too much invested in 3.5 to make a switch - we are happy with 3.5 the way it is, and have enough to keep us busy for the rest of our gaming lives.
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I thought why can't they continue to produce products for 3.5 and 4.0? There will be a market for both.
We have too much invested in 3.5 to make a switch - we are happy with 3.5 the way it is, and have enough to keep us busy for the rest of our gaming lives.
I agree, from the discussions I have seen, there are more than enough people willing to buy 4th Edition no matter what. And then there are some who will never switch.
So why didn't Wizards just make both? Keep everyone happy! Even if they toned down on splatbooks for 3.X, and just made adventures and the occasional fluff book, I would keep buying from them.
Ah well, at least I discovered Pathfinder as a result.
The funny thing is, after looking at many of the later 3.5 supplements, you can almost play a 4E-style game with 3.5 rules. No new edition needed.
Traps as encounters? See Dungeonscape
Lots of At Will Martial Powers? See Bo9S
Lots of Special Powers using skills? See Complete Scoundrel
The same 4E explaination regarding the use of Raise Dead? See Complete Divine
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Not so confusing when you consider the WotC overreaction to Book of Erotic Fantasy in light of BoVD's Lich Loved feat. ^_^
Don't bring me into this sordid affair :)
"Sex is bad, boys and girls. It doesn't belong in roleplaying games...unless you're having it with dead people. If you are having sex with dead people, you can pick up your nifty benefits package over there."
And has the added benefit of never being told "I am not in the mood". One must look on the bright side, that is my view.
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Now, I'm beyond caring. 4E will come out and I'll be oblivious to it. I have shelves of books that allow me to continue to immerse my players in worlds of adventure on a weekly basis. Once Pathfinder is released, that will join the rest and do its job. I'll be proud to own it, due in no small part to the fact that Paizo and its people are putting it out for people like me, people who love Dungeons & Dragons.
Wow, QFT. Truer words have never been spoken, Shadowborn.
-DM Jeff
My reaction.
"Well that's nice of 'em. I wonder when Alpha 2 will be released? Anything interesting on the message Boards? Oh! shiny!"
I was fine, and very interested, until I heard "No backwards conversions or compatability".
Then I looked at my shelf full of 3.x books.
Then I was ticked off.
Whoa. A deja vu headrushing time warp back to 1999. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
As for how I felt when the announcement came, something along the lines of: "Already?" and "Again?"
Then, they drove the stake into its heart by murderating the Realms with yet another RSE, butchering the pantheon, and let's see, oh yeah, let's just move it forward 100 years for the heck of it.
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I admit it. I'm a newgeek.
When I hear about new editions of game systems I like, I almost immediately start obssessing about what's coming. What did they change? What cool new toys will I have to play with? How are they making this game better, in ways I would never think to try? I start haunting spoiler threads on various forums, trade gossip with the guys are my FLGS, and so on.
Which is why my complete lack of interest in 4E really surprised the hell out of me.
I finally got into D&D (after almost a decade of other games, most of them from White Wolf) with 3rd Edition, so I didn't - and don't - really have any strong philosophical objections to the changes 4E is doing, although I do admit they have the air of change for change's sake. I really loved Book of Nine Swords, and still think it's possibly the best sourcebook WotC released for 3.5. I adore reserve feats too, and I think characters should have at-will powers that reinforce the class they want to play, rather than having to fall back on non-character-based actions like "I shoot it with my crossbow."
And yet, 4E left me completely cold.
I really don't know why, but nothing I have heard, none of the spoilers I have picked up, nonme of that has had the slightest impact on my utter disinterest in 4E. The situation is, if anything, more perplexing because I reacted exactly the way I would have thought I would to 4E when I heard about Pathfinder - it's so bad that I'm not even hovering over the forums in hopes of seeing the new Alpha 2 release, I'm actually twitchy because Jason hasn't posted his promised teaser for today (or if he has, I haven't spotted it yet). Pathetic, no?
So, yeah. No idea why 4E didn't and doesn't grab me. All I can say is, Pathfinder did, and that's good enough for me.
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Disclaimer: this is NOT intended to be flamebait! I figure enough time has passed where this can be discussed somewhat rationally.
My reaction to the 4E announcement when I saw it was a mix of shock and disappointment. It's not that I would have always minded a 4th edition, I just felt (and still do; I'm going with Pathfinder) that 3rd edition had a lot more life in it, and I would have liked to have seen WotC "finish" a few of its sub-lines before moving on.
I am assuming you are talking about the 17 April announcement from WotC about the GSL. I felt this was poor damage control on WotC's part. All they really did is release dates for future milestones. They gave nothing really concrete to the 3rd Party Publishers.
I felt the 3.5 line was pretty complete and I did not need more books. I like that 3.5 is ending. This allows me to complete my 3.5 collection since WotC is done. I would not have minded the books Timespike mentioned. However, when I look at my bookshelf I see enough and no gaps in subject matter.
I just want to get PRPG so I can feel my collection is useful, harmonious and evolving. I do not want my collection to get bigger, just better.
No, I'm talking about the original "We're making a new edition!" announcement back when (really, no sarcasm). I know, I know, it's unusual to discuss things more than a week in the past on the internet.
Initially I welcomed the concept of a 4th edition. I had abandonded D&D after becoming very disatisfied with 2nd Edition...a process that took literally years. Wizards reworking into 3rd editioon brought me back to D&D. More so with the fixes of 3.5. I loved D&D again instead of trotting out the old horse for a nostalgic ride every once in a while. I figured if they could fix the main problems I had with 2nd edition then I would love 4th edition...thinking it would be a simple step on the same path of 2nd --> 3rd --> 3.5. Initially peaks at changes had some hope to me. But the more I saw the less and less i liked it. The mentioned of a dragon with 1000 hp, class abilites that seemed closer to "magic for all" than extensions of training and the "rest for six hours and recover all your hit points" were the final straw for me. While I like video games, if i want to play one i would boot up Guild Wars or throw a game in the Playstation. The more I have seen of 4th edition the more and more it looks like like an massively mutliplayer online game (I refuse to call them rpgs since i dont see any roleplaying in them..pet peeve of mine.). That pretty much killed 4th edition for me.
Then one day, awaiting me in my e-mail was a glorious news...Paizo was reworking 3.5 into the Pathfinder RPG. While I had not ever played any of the Pathfinder paths or modules I had heard great things about them. So i took a peak...and behold! Here was what I was expecting from 4th edition. Not what amounted to a new system but a refininf of the existing system. And here I am now, drooling like a rabid fanboy for the Pathfinder RPG, Gazetteer and Setting.
-Weylin Stormcrowe