To the OP - have you taken a look at the FR Campaign Setting.. they have stats and information to play a drow, and I'm sure it's elsewhere as well.
All 3.*
To the OP - have you taken a look at the FR Campaign Setting.. they have stats and information to play a drow, and I'm sure it's elsewhere as well.
All 3.*
They're in the SRD!
d20srd.org (Scroll down; drow traits are in addition to elf traits, so you'll have to apply both).
And, of course, the same information can be found in the monster manual. You don't need any forgotten realms book.
Considering that Lamashtu is more on the level of Loth^3, Drow could easily be very nasty in Golarion. Eating infants would be the least .... déjà vu, I've posted this before?.... of what they do. Driders would have a home in a Lamashtu worshiping Drow civilization.
Let's wait for Golarion drow, then. They'll be coming in Second Darkness. I don't know whether they'll be into bondage and all that, but from what I remember, they will be demon-worshipping underworld-dwellers who are nasty.
I don't know whether it's just Lamashtu, but I can see her play a role.
In fact, I can see Golarion Driders being driders from birth, not the "you failed the drow test and will be transformed" thing Lolth pulls off.
Lamashtu is the Goddess of Monstrous Births, after all. I can see Drow women that give birth to driders gain a lot of prestige (maybe even more than those who spawn half-demon drow)
And with people like Richard Pett and Nick Logue on board, we can rest assured that there's people around who can make sure that the drow will be very nasty.
Think Firefly Reavers!
Merisiel: "If they overrun the camp, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh and sew our skins into their clothing and if we're very very lucky, they'll do it in that order."
To me the Drow are always too methodical and calculating for a comparison to the Reavers. For a race with a tendency for Chaotic Evil (though the bulk are now designated Neutral Evil), the drow seldom do anything without a plan and a reason, even if it is simply a plan to make themselves feel good.
When I look for a race to equate with Reavers in D&D i think of Githyanki. More tactical and organized than Reavers, but no less brutal gievn their penchant for slavery, their preference for eating sapient beings while they are still alive and such. Easy to see adventurers horrified as a Githyanki warband devestates a village. Or worse yet, they cries of despair and terror when a Githyanki astral ship breaches between planes and attacks a sailing vessel.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
To me the Drow are always too methodical and calculating for a comparison to the Reavers.
Wait until Paizo had a go at demon-worshipping drow.
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To me the Drow are always too methodical and calculating for a comparison to the Reavers. For a race with a tendency for Chaotic Evil (though the bulk are now designated Neutral Evil), the drow seldom do anything without a plan and a reason, even if it is simply a plan to make themselves feel good.
When I look for a race to equate with Reavers in D&D i think of Githyanki. More tactical and organized than Reavers, but no less brutal gievn their penchant for slavery, their preference for eating sapient beings while they are still alive and such. Easy to see adventurers horrified as a Githyanki warband devestates a village. Or worse yet, they cries of despair and terror when a Githyanki astral ship breaches between planes and attacks a sailing vessel.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
I agree, Githyanki have always had a special place in my heart, as they outshine Drow (in my eyes). With how well Paizo did the "Incursion" arc years ago, I would be excited to see what the Githyanki may become in their hands. However, I presume that they are WOTC property, as Beholder and Illithid. Perhaps we'll have to see what wild and vicious enemies that Golarion has available ... the Denizens of Leng seem to be a handy replacement for Mind Flayers.
I agree, Githyanki have always had a special place in my heart, as they outshine Drow (in my eyes). With how well Paizo did the "Incursion" arc years ago, I would be excited to see what the Githyanki may become in their hands. However, I presume that they are WOTC property, as Beholder and Illithid. Perhaps we'll have to see what wild and vicious enemies that Golarion has available ... the Denizens of Leng seem to be a handy replacement for Mind Flayers.
Well, the Githyanki are listed in the OGL monster section so I am not sure how proprietary they are. Also the term Githyanki is taken from a George R. R. Martin story. So that further muddles it.
Personally, I would love to see a setting that included the Githyanki as a primary race.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
They're in the SRD!Huh. So they are OGL.
I would love to see Paizo's take on the drow in its next Monster book.
They're said to be big villains in Second Darkness, so we will definetly get to know what Paizo thinks drow should be like
Well, the Githyanki are listed in the OGL monster section so I am not sure how proprietary they are. Also the term Githyanki is taken from a George R. R. Martin story. So that further muddles it.
In Martin's novel, the githyanki were called "soulsucks" because of their dangerous psychic powers. They were slaves of another alien race called the hrangans, and were used by them in their long space wars with humanity. Unlike the D&D race, they were barely sentient. No githyanki actually appear in Dying of the Light, as the book takes place after the war between the humans and the hrangans is long over, and the soulsucks are nearly extinct. There is also passing reference to them in Martin's short-story collection Tuf Voyaging.
That could totally work: Some alien race that uses psychic assassins. I don't think that wizards could complain if Paizo borrowed from Martin. After all, part of their IP is borrowed from there as well.
That could totally work: Some alien race that uses psychic assassins. I don't think that wizards could complain if Paizo borrowed from Martin. After all, part of their IP is borrowed from there as well.
Given how many of the creatures in monster manual are borrowed from other sources there isnt much they can do about most of them. As much as I like many of the newer monsters, I have a weak spot for reworking mythical creatures or just translating them directly into a game. the arabic ghul is far more revolting than the D&D ghouls and the legendary cockatrice is far more deadly.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
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Drizzt clones gloriously lampooned here: OOTS comic #65
OOTS is funny, but I prefer Goblins on so many levels...check out the THREE Drizzt clones in this party...Hehehe.
http://goblinscomic.com/d/20050819.html
*Developped in The Inclusion Of A New Core Race... What would it be? thread.
-Uriel
OOTS is funny, but I prefer Goblins on so many levels...check out the THREE Drizzt clones in this party...Hehehe.http://goblinscomic.com/d/20050819.html
Those aren't Drizzt clones. Drow doesn't equal Drizzt clone. They have to worship non-drow deities, be non-evil, fight with two weapons (preferrably scimitars) and it doesn't hurt if they're rangers and have figurines of wondrous power.
Powerful abilities i hear mentioned again and again?Which ones?I think the drow special abilities are a complete joke.They do get alot of stat boosts however.
I think not letting your players play one because it is derivative of some popular fictional character is really lame.I mean,lots of people want to play the GAME as one of their fave characters.I think some prestige classes were actually created that aped characters from popular fantasy fiction.But really,get over it people it's DnD not the freakin fantasy history channel.
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OOTS is funny, but I prefer Goblins on so many levels...check out the THREE Drizzt clones in this party...Hehehe.http://goblinscomic.com/d/20050819.html
Those aren't Drizzt clones. Drow doesn't equal Drizzt clone. They have to worship non-drow deities, be non-evil, fight with two weapons (preferrably scimitars) and it doesn't hurt if they're rangers and have figurines of wondrous power.
Not to sidetrack us here, but...
Read the comic. The female is just a knock on guys playing female characters. The other 2 Drow are scimitar wielding Drizzt clones. The other characters even mention comparisons to 'Good aligned Drow wielding scimitars' further into the strip. In the 2005 Nov 11th comic, the little one says 'That's it little Goblin, come to Drasst...' Drizzt,Drasst. :D
-Uriel
On Topic: I don't think all Drow are Drizzt clones myself. Back ion 1st ed, (Before Drizzt made his appearance on the scene), a bunch of my players wanted to play Drow, when the original Unearthed Arcana came out. I allowed it, and they made some original characters, some outcasts, some loyalist to Eclavdra, one a spy for Graz'zt. All great character, none Good aligned.
Now, granted, I left D&D in 1987(Returned with 3rd ed...) for Rolemaster, WHFRP, Stormbringer (Actually, anything BUT D&D, as I had grown really dissatisfied with the system), so when Drizzt came along, I didn't know or have the phenomenon inflicted on my games.
My condolences to all the DMs who suffered through the experience. If it makes you feel any better, I was swamped by 'Aragorn clones' in my Middle Earth game, as every Dunedain was some noble forced to live as an outcast, following the fall of Arnor. Weird how these things transcend genres/games.
-Uriel
Compared to Pathfinder elves, drow just get +2Cha (and I'd give that to all elves, because a con penalty really hurts).
The most powerful ability they have is probably spell resistance.
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I have two drows in my Underdark campaign now - a sorcerer and a warlock. That is, drow warlock and one ex-drow sorcerer - he died and got reincarnated as an minotaur. Underdark campaign can be a lot of fun for both players and GM's, mostly because you can try out things not done before in another campaign.
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To me the Drow are always too methodical and calculating for a comparison to the Reavers. For a race with a tendency for Chaotic Evil (though the bulk are now designated Neutral Evil), the drow seldom do anything without a plan and a reason, even if it is simply a plan to make themselves feel good.
When I look for a race to equate with Reavers in D&D i think of Githyanki. More tactical and organized than Reavers, but no less brutal gievn their penchant for slavery, their preference for eating sapient beings while they are still alive and such. Easy to see adventurers horrified as a Githyanki warband devestates a village. Or worse yet, they cries of despair and terror when a Githyanki astral ship breaches between planes and attacks a sailing vessel.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
Huh? Where did you get the idea that the Githyanki ate people? Did I miss some huge revision somewhere...?
-Uriel
It's obvious none of you have seen the Eberron drow.:-p They kick the ever loving crap out of Drizzt wanna be emo drow without having to be "rebels" if they are good.
That said I have never minded good drow as long as they are not Drizzt clones. I'm more of a Zaknafein and Jarlaxle fan myself. But neither of them were good alingment. If I play a "good" drow I more imagine Gerrick from Deep Space Nine as a drow. The whole sardonic politeness and amusement at people's hostile reactions. That actor would make a decent "good" drow without being some whiny emo guy.
I admit my first good drow was somewhat of a Drizzt clone. He wasn't a ranger but he had heard of Drizzt and idolized him. That PC came to a bad end. :-p But the next good drow I had was ages later and wasn't even good alinged. He was more CN and was helping the other PCs vs the drow more out of petty revenge and a need to show them up than of any whiny morality.
Though my favorite non-human race is Tiefling. I find the demonic bad-boy hero to be very cool. So here's one person who likes Tiefling more than drow.
I had a lot of good experiences with PC drow, both from a DM's perspective and as a player. My favorite (still running) drow char is an assassin who stumbled per unfortunate happenstance into the role of a hero and wasn't all too thrilled about it. Traveling with the party and bound to their fate he began using the situation to his advantage and is slowly, slowly understanding what it means to be "good", without actually noticing it.
I had player groups playing evil drow. I had groups playing good drow. And I most certainly have at least one drow in every FR adventure I run.
Sure, I had a lot of bad experiences with drow characters too - but that is true for every race/class in the game.
Considering how popular they are as player characters (which is true, no matter how much this angers some people, for reasons I cannot fathom), it seems to be about time to add them permanently to the core races.
Of course, they would need to lose some of their powers to bring them around a LA+0. Racial Feats or Levels seem to be a good way of saving some of their abilities.
But then again - they are not truly "core". I disagree that they should always be portrayed as evil, evil, evil villains who are born thoroughly evil without any hope of redemption (what kind of depressing message is that?), but they seem somehow misplaced without a strong story connecting them to the setting. Everyone thinks about the Realms when it comes to drow, but Eberron, for example, has a very interesting take on them, that differs from their default version without making them any less drow. Yet they make hardly good standard PCs (intriguing ones, yes, but not basic).
Still, although drow are probably my favorite characters and villains and I have lots of fond memories of Underdark-based adventures, they are part of the setting. If Pathfinder has a strong role for drow that is beyond the eternal villain, then they should be core PCs by all means. If not, they're better off as optional characters.
Basically, you can play anything you want, if your DM allows it and thinks it appropriate for the campaign. But core races should be something that's always OK, no matter what kind of adventure you're planning to run (exotic exceptions aside). No matter how you look at it - that is not exactly a role where the drow excel.
I can think of *many* problems that arise from playing a drow, and plot-relevant reasons are on the end of that list.
No beginner, for example, could play a drow. You'd have to understand the elves first and the special role the drow play in the setting. That's a really bad start for a *core* race.
So, I think they should be a playable race, but I don't think they should be part of the core races.
[rant]
Does it drive anyone else nuts to daily be scrolling through the thread titles and keep seeing this thread? The "Player Classes -- Must Add The Drow" is so annoying to me.
[/rant]
Sorry, I had to say something.
You just have to take it easy. He probably just made a small error. There's other things I can get worked up about.
[rant]
Does it drive anyone else nuts to daily be scrolling through the thread titles and keep seeing this thread? The "Player Classes -- Must Add The Drow" is so annoying to me.
[/rant]
Sorry, I had to say something.
I know. This isn't Basic Boxed Set D&D! I remember Elves, Dwarves and Halflings were a class. Elves were the best though. They were fighter/mages.
I know. This isn't Basic Boxed Set D&D! I remember Elves, Dwarves and Halflings were a class.
Yes. Luckily, those dark times are past and we learned to tell apart things you are and things you do.
I see no reason why a PC couldn't play a Drow. If you're concerned about role-playing there are various type of players out there, some who role play and some who don’t. Please don't let that be the deciding factor. There are those who breathe personality to their character and then there are those who play them as nothing more than a sheet of paper.
I will be honest what drew me to Dnd was reading about "Aragorn and the fellowship". Did I play him as a clone, nope I could only play him with my own capabilities and he was only Aragorn in image only. We all hero worship and it is only natural to become like your hero. That what make Dnd some much fun, you can become like your favorite mythical hero and do it your way.
I had a lot of good experiences with PC drow, both from a DM's perspective and as a player. My favorite (still running) drow char is an assassin who stumbled per unfortunate happenstance into the role of a hero and wasn't all too thrilled about it. Traveling with the party and bound to their fate he began using the situation to his advantage and is slowly, slowly understanding what it means to be "good", without actually noticing it.
Change Drow Assassin to Drow Psychic Warrior/Elocator, and that's eerily similar to my character's experience...
Considering how popular they are as player characters (which is true, no matter how much this angers some people, for reasons I cannot fathom), it seems to be about time to add them permanently to the core races.
I think the problem that angers so many is the unimaginative players who read the Drizzt novels and blindly imitated the worst of Drizzt's angsty-excesses, without bothering to come up with an original character of their own. During 2nd Edition, especially, this was true. Drow Of The Underdark was a great supplement and book of source material, but it enabled *SO* many copycats it dazes even me.
I want to change my vote: I want drow to be a standard player race - for no other reason than to piss off those who want them gone for good. And while we're at it, I want 27 more elf subraces, and katanas that do 2d8, 17-20/x4 and are finessable.
:)
Sincerely, I'm a bit tired of the tides of drizzt clones and good-hearted rebel drow outcasts who must find a way to fit in the surface...
It's fun once, maybe twice, but it grows old quickly enough... Good-aligned drow should be almost as rare as good-aligned demons, and as such I have problems seeing them as a player character race (much less core: core races should have ECL 0, as has been said before).
I'm not against the ocasional drow PC (or kobold, or lizardfolk) but IMHO they should be treated as exceptions, as truly unique individuals.
My criteria for a core race*:
1. Easy to characterize and easy to role-play
2. Not too advantaged in standard adventuring situations
3. Not too disadvantaged in standard adventuring environments
4. Civilised, sociable and not essentially evilDrow as a race fail the 4th criterion, being evil to the bone. We can of course play with the technical aspects of nerfing them down to +0 level adjustement and letting them "regrow" their SR and other abilities, but drow as a race are not nice people.
I agree whole heartedly... I feel Drow have been over played by the people who want to play the evil race turned good.. I'm one who would like to see them not allowed as a player character race.. they are the bad guys and one good one was wnough for me.. heck even Salvatore is tired of him.. that speaks volumes to me...
[rant]
Oh yeah.. the next one I see in a game, and I'm playing an elf... I'm gonna kill him.. because he's the big bad evil and they can't be trusted...
[/rant]
I agree whole heartedly... I feel Drow have been over played by the people who want to play the evil race turned good.. I'm one who would like to see them not allowed as a player character race.. they are the bad guys and one good one was wnough for me.. heck even Salvatore is tired of him.. that speaks volumes to me...
[rant]
Oh yeah.. the next one I see in a game, and I'm playing an elf... I'm gonna kill him.. because he's the big bad evil and they can't be trusted...
[/rant]
And I'm hereby glad I don't game in your gaming group.
[rant]
Oh yeah.. the next one I see in a game, and I'm playing an elf... I'm gonna kill him.. because he's the big bad evil and they can't be trusted...
[/rant]
He'll probably just cut you to pieces.
If it's any condolence to you: He'll feel bad about it afterwards. :P
Keldarth's post above fits my feeling perfectly.
Drow are evil. Really evil. That what made Drizzt special. He was a freak of nature. He is a drow that isnt evil to the core.
Making them a PC race IMHO does a huge disservice to what drow are.
QFT
Drizzt was an enigma, nothing more - great for a story, lousy for a PC race. You want somethiing like him? Run a Wild Elf with a VERY dark complexion: end of story.
If I used one (and its a mighty BIG 'if'), it would be an exceptional NPC, or a player would have to come up with a freakin' amazing back story.
At their VERY BEST, Drow should be true neutral - the ultimate in selfish, self-centered egoists that will ALWAYS ask "What's in it for me?"
And thats the cream of the crop, there.
There was a time I enjoyed a little Drizzt Wine with a hunk of Cattie-Brie... now, not so much.
Plus, if you want REAL Realms Drow, then you should go with Ed's - they were Albinos. I'd love to see a cross of Ed's Drow with Gary Gygax's - All pale and sickly looking, wearing enough black leather and spikes to make an Emo cry. They should be all about pain....
Drow shouldn't be core. But, I like the idea of the occasional PC-Drow.
I actually, just helped my sister put together a Drow Cleric for my game.
She's been playing for about a year now but still isn't that great with character creation or playing outside her idea box.
Thus far she's been small races and a rouge.
Her drow is LN - Using my suggestion I told her to think up something "like the 10 commandments... but not the 10 commandments" to lay out her characters general way of thinking/life.
Not the most original - but for someone who hasn't been smothered with 'good drow' or Drizzt (she doesn't even know the name) propaganda... we worked out something that I thought was pretty cool.
100+ years ago, Crona was a small child. Her home in the underdark was stormed by a group of adventurers seeking fame and glory. One of them was a ______ (some race or someone who for their entire life was looked down upon simply because of their race...) found the child and took it to a group of monks in the mountains.. etc etc... the monks taught the drow elf their ways (she worships the sun) and explained the legends of why drow are different from other elves.
They hide in darkness and are generally evil. So, she worships the sun and her goal is to teach people that evil cannot be discerned by race, and she wants to bring her ancestors and distant 'cousins' to the light - literally - or dispatch them. Drow are evil because they hide from the one true god - the Sun. She isn't cursed because she's spent her life above ground receieving warmth and life from the sun.
Ofcourse, some drow have learned of her, and seek to kill her - because that's what they do.
She's also not going to be the groups 'medic' as I explained to her a cleric idea I've been wanting to play;
Real churches can and will turn you away for services if you're not of the same faith. Not just charge you extra for that raise dead.
People that beleieve that the sun is the god - don't acknowledge any other gods. Sort of a Sun is all powerful believe and live forever in light - deny the sun and be destroyed in darkness etc...
She's going to try and convert people and withhold frivolent healing otherwise.. Sure.. life or death she'll heal you.. but only to perhaps have another day to convert you.
All in all, I'm slightly envious of the character. I know how I would play it.. but oh well. :D
At their VERY BEST, Drow should be true neutral - the ultimate in selfish, self-centered egoists that will ALWAYS ask "What's in it for me?"
That's not TN.