How about this...
Instead of basing it on Character Level or Base Attack Bonus...base it on hit die. Where X= Class Hit Die type...A Cure Light Wounds restores 1dX + 1/caster level to 10...Cure Moderate Wounds restores 2dX 1/caster level to 10 and Cure Critical WOunds restores 3dX 1/caster level to 10. A cleric casts Mass Cure Light Wounds on her party. The Fighter gets back 1d10+10 while the Wizard gets back 1d6+10 etc etc.
-Weylin Stormcrowe
Back in 1st ed, I used a similar houserule, that Cure spells would at minimum heal a set percentage of the recipient's hit points (CLW 10%, CMW 25%, CCW 50%, etc). That seemed to work well, and helped the spell names from becoming bad jokes at high-level play. ("How bad are you hurt?" "Only down about 30, I could use a Cure Critical Wounds, but I'm fine without it.")
Your BAB idea is elegant (I may steal it), but doesn't take the recipient's CON into account. Perhaps SpellLevel * (BestHitDie + CONBonus)? Hmm, a little ugly, that. I think I prefer the percentages.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Stormcrowe
OK, using Class Hit Die is potentially problematic for multiclassed characters (maybe just use best hit die?).
It also occurs to me that mundane daily healing rates share the same problem as Mikeynerd's complaint. How about this:
Healing Factor = BAB + CON bonus.
Resting for 24 hours heals hp equal to your Healing Factor, doubled for long-term care.
Cure spells heal Spell Level * Healing Factor.
|
Forgive me if my question is not appropriate... but why does healing have to be fixed? What if I don't think it's broken? :) The easily available (and sometimes even unnecessary due to personal abilities) healing was something that turned me off of 4e. The point of Pathfinder is to keep the 3.5 feel of D&D, if I recall correctly.
Perhaps you should define the problem you're trying to solve, first, then perhaps your solution would be clearer to me. :)
We should make the best healing tool in the game even better.
*Sighs.*
Hitpoints are always going to be a metagame concept. You can't change that without breaking backwards compatibility.
I see the point why healing MIGHT need an overhaul.
But I will just remind you to use AS SIMPLE Mechanics as possible.
Let's take a look at the mechanics now:
The cure spells (although they are called light/moderate/...) heal a very fixed and narrow amount of HP.
So the light/moderate/.. descriptor is refering to a what-so-ever (and you're right, a somewhat strange) objective point of view.
This results in a CLW healing a much greater part of HP at lower levels then in the higher ones. And the higher level PCs need higher level spells to heal their "wounds".
If the spells would be revised, so that a CLW would cure a certain amount of HP regardless of level (like 10% or so), the danger would be, that PCs could use their relative unimportant low-level spells for healing large amounts of HP without the real need to use the higher level healing spells.
I am running out of time so I just quit here.
I have a friend who felt that magical healing just wasn't very magical so he houseruled that every die of healing heals 25% of the recipents hit points. He has done this in both 2nd and 3rd editions (and maybe first, but I wasn't around then).
It scales very nicely with level and allows PCs to get back to adventuring instead of hiding in the broom closet for a night.
It's not overpowering as A) evil clerics use the rule too and B) magical healing *is* weak.
Also, as an added benefit, if you are playing the cleric, (or any other healing class) casting a low level spell to heal the fighter 20-25 points doesn't feel like a waste of an action.
I see the point why healing MIGHT need an overhaul.
But I will just remind you to use AS SIMPLE Mechanics as possible.Let's take a look at the mechanics now:
The cure spells (although they are called light/moderate/...) heal a very fixed and narrow amount of HP.
So the light/moderate/.. descriptor is refering to a what-so-ever (and you're right, a somewhat strange) objective point of view.This results in a CLW healing a much greater part of HP at lower levels then in the higher ones. And the higher level PCs need higher level spells to heal their "wounds".
If the spells would be revised, so that a CLW would cure a certain amount of HP regardless of level (like 10% or so), the danger would be, that PCs could use their relative unimportant low-level spells for healing large amounts of HP without the real need to use the higher level healing spells.
You're right in that at 25% per die rolled, Cure Critical Wounds will heal a PC of 100% of hit points. But that is a 4th level spell that could have been used for Freedom of Movement, Restoration, Summon Monster IV, or Greater Magic Weapon. Also, that just healed 1 person. What about the other 4 or 5 (more if you include animal companions, cohorts, dying villagers, and the rogue's personal valet.
Futhermore, there aren't that many higher level healing spells, just mass versions of the lower versions and heal.
The mass versions can be treated just like the lower versions (25% per die rolled) but apply to more targets.
Heal takes care of a lot more than just hp damage. Go reread the spell description, if you are so inclined. It takes care of ability damage, feeblemind, stunned, poison, disease and a lot of other stuff - all at once.
Heal is not a spell that is going to go away just because the lower level versions work better now.
Double post.
|
|
I see the point why healing MIGHT need an overhaul.
But I will just remind you to use AS SIMPLE Mechanics as possible.<snip>
If the spells would be revised, so that a CLW would cure a certain amount of HP regardless of level (like 10% or so), the danger would be, that PCs could use their relative unimportant low-level spells for healing large amounts of HP without the real need to use the higher level healing spells.
OK, I can see what is being perceived as needing to be tweaked. I'm not sure I'd like to see it as part of the core rules, but definitely an optional ruling on how healing works would be in order for those who want a less dangerous / higher fantasy version of healing.
Something I might suggest (so as not to have minor healing spells overtake higher level spells) would be the following:
CLW - heals a character to 25% of maximum
CMW - heals a character to 50% of maximum
CSW - heals a character to 75% of maximum
Leaving heal to bring people back to full HP. Or you could even create the 4d version, which heals the character back to full without all of the added benefits of the Heal spell.
That means, of course, that higher level spells have LESS of an effect on lower level characters... so the problem has just been inverted. That could be mitigated by adding the following on to the end of the above descriptions: ", or [20/40/60] HP, whichever is greater."
Then, of course, you're working with fixed healing amounts... which I like. I hate randomly rolled healing. It's a controlled environment with a willing subject... there's no reason that randomness should come into play (as a related sideline, we've always house ruled that a cleric's healing works as "maximized" when cast on himself or if he actually spends a slot on it, rather than swapping it into his spells for the day).
The numbers, of course, would likely need to be tweaked with more thought put into them, but I make the suggestion to be played with if anyone wishes to do so. :)
|
CLW healing 25% might be a fine idea when you have 50 hit points.
But when it's the only heal you can cast and you're trying to heal someone with a maximum of 10 hitpoints at level 1, getting 2-3 hitpoints back is a TERRIBLE idea.
If all I'm getting back is 2 hitpoints I would have prefered the cleric to waste the casting on Bless, Bane, or Shield of Faith during the fight, because those probably would have helped KEEP 2 hitpoints more then getting them back.
In order to avoid falling back into the 15 minute day hole, healing needs to be more effective so that clerics cast LESS spells, not more. Wizards have gotten out of that problem, the new turn healing keeps the clerics out of it. Any tinkering with heal spells risks forcing them to rest more often again.
|
|
CLW healing 25% might be a fine idea when you have 50 hit points.
But when it's the only heal you can cast and you're trying to heal someone with a maximum of 10 hitpoints at level 1, getting 2-3 hitpoints back is a TERRIBLE idea.
If all I'm getting back is 2 hitpoints I would have prefered the cleric to waste the casting on Bless, Bane, or Shield of Faith during the fight, because those probably would have helped KEEP 2 hitpoints more then getting them back.
In order to avoid falling back into the 15 minute day hole, healing needs to be more effective so that clerics cast LESS spells, not more. Wizards have gotten out of that problem, the new turn healing keeps the clerics out of it. Any tinkering with heal spells risks forcing them to rest more often again.
I don't think you finished reading my post once you got to the 25% line... :)
While I suggested something to counteract it (it would also heal up to a static number, if it were greater than the %age), it does ring of having one's cake and eating it too. You can't complain that the healing falls behind and is useless at higher levels based on percentages, then complain that it's consistent at low levels when it heals the same percentage.... Well, actually it can be argued.. it's just not sensible. :) However, we're not recreating reality here, we're suggesting things that solve perceived problems.
I really would be interested to see if you have a different thought on my post when you finish reading it. I have no idea if it's a good idea, or not, but it's what came to me at the time. :) I think it would work, and would mitigate the "falling behind" of healing spells at higher levels (regardless of how we try to rationalize *what* hp really are).
After some more thought on this regarding natural healing. I would like to see an optional system similar to starting hit points options and the three different advancement charts. One that allowed for quicker natural healing, one that used the current system and one that made healing slower. Different types of campaigns should have different healing rates...a very high heroic campaign would likely have character's healing much quicker while a grittier setting might have them healing slower.
-Weylin STormcrowe