Like the title says. Spoilers spoilers spoilers. I'm just trying to fill up the mouseover text...
OK. It's the first of the listed assignments, really, that doesn't make much sense to me. The PCs are sent to the alley to confirm rumors that lazy corpse-wagoneers are dumping corpses there. So they go to the alley and see a big ol' pile of corpses.
...then what?
Where's the motivation to check things out in any detail, to discover the vampires? Why wouldn't PCs just go "okay, there's some plague-ridden bodies here. I ain't touching them. Better call 'round for one of those corpse wagons. Find out who's responsible and make them carry these south, then see if they can't be fired for incompetence. So! What's next?"
|
Well, I think the way it works is that;
When the vampires see the PCs snooping around they think "live, hot blood!" and go for the throat. The PCs are meant to think it's just a random encounter; the vampires have been using the fresh bodies as a steady, if unpalatable, food source. It's only later that they find out that those vampires really were part of the main plot, after all.
When a vampire jumps down on you from a rooftop and attacks, then three more run out and try to kill you, them when you defeat them, turn to mist, what do you do?
the cleric or wizard makes a Knowledge (religion) roll to remember that defeated vampires return to their coffin once beaten, and you have to stake them there in order to kill them for good. Do they really want vampires in old korvosa?
Well, I think the way it works is that;
When the vampires see the PCs snooping around they think "live, hot blood!" and go for the throat. The PCs are meant to think it's just a random encounter; the vampires have been using the fresh bodies as a steady, if unpalatable, food source. It's only later that they find out that those vampires really were part of the main plot, after all.
Yeah, but that's if they come to the alley at night. If they visit during the day, all four spawn are asleep. It does mention that the alley is shaded enough to allow the vampires to kick around during the day, but the rest of the text makes it seem as if they'd all be asleep during the day anyway--this info is just so the rest can fight to defend themselves if they stake one and wake up the others.
And the PCs go get the guy with the corpse wagon, who starts loaded the bodies, and - as the PCs stand there watching - is set upon by the one vampire always guarding the food.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
|
Well you are supposed to have the PC's roll Spot checks once they get into the alley. This right off the bat should make them aware that something might not be right, then you can let them roll Search checks to find bodies that aren't plague ridden and have puncture marks on the necks (Heal or Knowledge (Religion) DC 10-15) will also grant them knowledge somethings up.
That's when you determine encounter distance and roll Spots for the Spawn on the building and the PC's. Remember this alley is normally a dangerous place anyway because it's so out of the way and perpetually dark. The spawn can rest but don't have to.
|
Well you are supposed to have the PC's roll Spot checks once they get into the alley. This right off the bat should make them aware that something might not be right
That only works if you have PCs roll for latent skills I do spot/listen/knowledge checks myself,and only tell them the results if they see/know something, to avoid just this type of giveaway.
I like the idea of the vamp attacking the body carrier the PCs call. If the PCs start walking away after summoning him then maybe have him ask where they're going - and explain that his helper contracted the plague from one of the bodies, and he needs help loading these.
Why wouldn't PCs just go "okay, there's some plague-ridden bodies here. I ain't touching them. Better call 'round for one of those corpse wagons. Find out who's responsible and make them carry these south, then see if they can't be fired for incompetence. So! What's next?"
Actually, that might be kind of cool. I rather like the idea of the PCs showing up, seeing the bodies as merely some break down of civil duties not worth their time, then wandering off to more profitable pastures. Now, three or four days later when plague victims start showing up with bite marks on their necks or stories start to spread that Death is actually, physically walking the streets and stalking the rooftops, the PCs might realize that something more is going on around Racker's Alley.
At the end of the day, though, nothing forces the PCs to be heroic. If they see the bodies and deem them not worth their time, people die. It's not cruel, it's just the way things are. The PCs might not even hear about the corpses that keep piling up after their initial visit—gods known there plenty of other tragedies ready to keep their attentions. Not every party is going to be able to save everybody, in fact, I suspect most won't.
At the end of the day, though, nothing forces the PCs to be heroic. If they see the bodies and deem them not worth their time, people die. It's not cruel, it's just the way things are. The PCs might not even hear about the corpses that keep piling up after their initial visit—gods known there plenty of other tragedies ready to keep their attentions. Not every party is going to be able to save everybody, in fact, I suspect most won't.
I like the way you think; in the end, I suspect that I'm not going to change the presentation of Racker's Alley to motivate my PCs to be heroes and find the vampires.
(I am going to change the presentation by having this and the Lavender's Liniment discussed at the meeting with Cressida Kroft and Dr. Davaulus if they attend, but that's besides the point).
If my PCs don't want to do the right thing, they'll have to live with the consequences. Although, since one of my future Crimson Throne players has already rolled up a paladin, if they don't want to do the right thing, they'll be doing it wrong.
Now, three or four days later when plague victims start showing up with bite marks on their necks or stories start to spread that Death is actually, physically walking the streets and stalking the rooftops, the PCs might realize that something more is going on around Racker's Alley.
What a great idea! You could also identify one of the corpses as having very recognizable features -- i.e. a tattoo of a rat that covers their entire torso -- and then that corpse turn up somewhere else that encourages further investigation...
Or they tell the corpse wagon guy to take care of it and three days later Cressida calls them in and wants to know why the corpses are still in racker alley? Going to the alley, the find the wagon sitting there and the remains of the guy.
Another way to get the PCs to investigate further is to have them notice that the dead bodies have been bitten and are drained of blood. Of course this may make them leave the alley even quicker.
A vampire that sucks on plague-ridden bodies has got to be a nasty bastard.
|
And the PCs go get the guy with the corpse wagon, who starts loaded the bodies, and - as the PCs stand there watching - is set upon by the one vampire always guarding the food.
If you find the need to be truely heavy-handed, a convenient sense motive roll to detect domination on said wagoneer would hopefully do the trick.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Why wouldn't PCs just go "okay, there's some plague-ridden bodies here. I ain't touching them. Better call 'round for one of those corpse wagons. So! What's next?"
Actually, that might be kind of cool. I rather like the idea of the PCs showing up, seeing the bodies as merely some break down of civil duties not worth their time, then wandering off to more profitable pastures. ... At the end of the day, though, nothing forces the PCs to be heroic. If they see the bodies and deem them not worth their time, people die. It's not cruel, it's just the way things are.
Wesley, I wouldn't characature investigating dead bodies piled in an alley as "heroic". Maybe as "idly curious", or, if they were planning on looting them, as "avaricious".
"Heroic" I reserve for things like turning the tramp freighter around and joining the hopeless rebel battle against a battle station the size of a moon.
Wesley, I wouldn't characature investigating dead bodies piled in an alley as "heroic". Maybe as "idly curious", or, if they were planning on looting them, as "avaricious".
How you characterize the events of your weekend and how I describe the events of mine are obviously worlds apart then. I'll have you know, though, that in my world, I'm a Big Damn Hero.
Wesley, I wouldn't characature investigating dead bodies piled in an alley as "heroic". Maybe as "idly curious", or, if they were planning on looting them, as "avaricious".How you characterize the events of your weekend and how I describe the events of mine are obviously worlds apart then. I'll have you know, though, that in my world, I'm a Big Damn Hero.
It's not normal to do that kind of thing then?
How you characterize the events of your weekend and how I describe the events of mine are obviously worlds apart then. I'll have you know, though, that in my world, I'm a Big Damn Hero.
Don't forget that in some places, "hero" is a grave insult. ;-)
All this reminds me of the Dilbert animated series, where Dogbert becomes the Ambassador to Elbonia - completely with diplomatic immunity, which he of course abuses to the hilt.
One scene has him walking up to the ceremonial burial lumps.
Guard: "The Ceremonial Burial Lumps are closed."
Dogbert: "I'm not here for the tour. I'm looting. Diplomatic immunity. Now get those shovels and help me."
I think it's pretty easy to tweak the setup slightly to ensure the PCs will get involved. I expect I'll have Cressida ask them not just to see if the body dump exists, but if they are, to figure out who is dumping the bodies there so that we can put an end to this public health hazard.
This should encourage the PCs either to investigate the bodies in an attempt to figure out what part of town they're coming from, or to set up a watch on the bodies and wait for those lazy corpse collectors to come drop off a new load. In the first case, they most likely notice the condition of the bodies. In the latter, come nightfall they'll get witness a little vampiric activity.
My preference is to run the encounter and let the PC decisions stand and not force a fight at that point.
At that point.
If they leave, well now you have 4 free roaming vampires on the loose! That's fun. Have them move from that spot and start up a new feeding grounds amongst the dead elsewhere. After enough delay for Kroft to hear the new information, filter it to the PCs.
Eventually, they'll start to ask WHY these corpse fields keep popping up. If they look for more details, they'll eventually find the vampires even if it's not the first one.
I had a significantly hard time with this encounter as well... My party decided to search through the toy store around dusk after deciding it wasn't worth digging around in plague-filled bodies looking for anything (I figured the vampires would be asleep still, but they rolled well enough on their listen checks while asleep to awaken as the PCs broke into the store).
The resulting combat (with still LEVEL 4 PCs, as per the adventure path up to this point) resulted in a half-party kill. I don't understand how this was scaled well at all, it's CR 4 PER VAMPIRE, resulting in an 8 for the four of them. This is a severely challenging encounter for 4th level PCs and I recommend easing up on the difficulty for other parties. The cleric successfully turned two of them, but with one of the remaining vamps dominating (and holding) one of the PCs while the other two grapple and life-suck the only other melee-centric PC, the party was doomed as soon as they entered the room. The last two escaped (by my merit) to keep their characters.
This encounter shouldn't ever be run all at once, as the adventure would have you believe, I would definitely at least split the spawn into (at least) two groups of two if I were to do it again.
There are only four vampire spawn in the alley. The encounter A1 lists one that keeps guard at night and indicates that the other three arrive in 1d3 rounds after the alarm.
The listed four vampire spawns in encounter A2 are if they are encountered asleep in the workshop during the day. It is somewhat confusing.
It should have been split one then three in 1d3 rounds during the night; or all four during the day, but asleep. The first one found asleep would be helpless, the others awakening from the noise of the first one getting destroyed.
When my group ran this, they came at night. The first vampire screeched the alarm and attacked. The four players (4th level) blasted it immediately. When the others arrived, the cleric turned two, which is still pretty tough with 4 HD and +2 turn resistance. The other three blasted the last one. Very little damage taken.
How many PCs were in your group? Were you using alternate turning rules? It sucks that one PC got... well sucked, but it takes a couple of rounds to pin and then bite an opponent, even if he's dominated. What were the others doing while all the vampires were on the one guy? were there just the two? Did the cleric try a second turn attempt? Were the players way unlucky on rolls?
This is a tough fight and no mistake, but a near TPK would indicate another factor. Only one melee guy is hard luck. Its hard for rogues too since they can't sneak attack the undead, and the DR is bad unless you,ve got silver. The cleric would be effective, as would an arcanist who could blast them. What was the composition of the group?
The EL for four CR4 against four 4th levels calculates to EL8, which is "very difficult". If fought one then three it is EL4 "challenging" then EL7 also "very difficult". Five CR4 at once against 4 4th levels is EL9 which is "overpowering". Which you proved! The system works.
-Jack
|
|
My PCs went through it in the day, thinking they could get a few hits off before the vampires woke up. Sadly though, even though I mentioned they needed silver to hurt (wizard made a good knowledge roll), they only had two silver daggers split between them. The fighter got mind-controlled, the others got surrounded, and they fled.
The nice thing about attacking in the day is it's often only a single move action to get back out into the sun, where the vampires can't do much other than try to dominate again.
After the first near TPK and failure, they went out and bought silver arrows, some silver short swords, a silver spear, and went back. The vampires were ready for them, but even though the Fighter got dominated again, the party still had a much easier time.
Preparation is key. If the party jumps in without research, of course they'll have a high chance of getting trounced. Korvosa is big though, and vampires aren't exactly an unknown thing. Researching them should be pretty easy.
Why would you need to? Vampire Spawn have the same vulnerabilities as Vampires, including the good ole fashioned staking.
The SRD doesn't say anything about stakes under vampire weaknesses.
It does mention property ownership though.Aquiring the property and revoking their permission to be there would eject them from the building; possibly into the sunlight.
Also garlic odor, running water, and mirrors will keep them at bay.
-Jack
|
|
My party went during the day and successfully identified the bites on the bodies as from vampires. So they went and bought a bottle of silversheen for the falchion-wielding fighter and tagged her and the archer with prot evil (the wizard and favoured soul didn't really need it as they had strong will saves, little damage-dealing capability and weren't obvious dominate targets, so not too much risk there). First spawn was dusted in his coffin with a falchion and max power attack. The rest gave the party a bit of a run for the money but the net result was that the favoured soul and fighter were a bit battered and had a couple of negative levels apiece, so the only adjustment I made was that the neg levels went after 24 hours since I think they're really harsh at level 4.
So yes, all in all I found it a nice, challenging fight to run, unlike the Leukodaemon *shudders*, which could easily have been a TPK if it weren't for a couple of environmental issues I threw in plus a lucky nat 1 on a reflex save vs grease. I can see the vampire spawn being really deadly if the party don't prepare though...