I agree that taking identify as a 2nd level cleric spell instead of a 1st level arcane spell is something the ferret from the Bud commercials would do.... :-)
but seriously, that's really not even close to being abusive for 3.5...
i don't think the loss of identify from the magic domain in alpha is going to break the cleric class either.
Personally, the loss of deity's favored weapon as a free feat for war domain will be missed as i usually prefer the warlike deities.
Personally, the loss of deity's favored weapon as a free feat for war domain will be missed as i usually prefer the warlike deities.
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Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Clerics are proficient
with all simple weapons, with all types of armor, and with
shields (except tower shields). Clerics are also proficient
with the favored weapon of their deities.
viola!
Personally, the loss of deity's favored weapon as a free feat for war domain will be missed as i usually prefer the warlike deities.&
viola!Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Clerics are proficient
with all simple weapons, with all types of armor, and with
shields (except tower shields). Clerics are also proficient
with the favored weapon of their deities.
Finally! The viola gets some respect! Down with the violin autocracy!
Seriously though, I think you're looking for the thread on bards. Did you know they're getting nerfed?
Regardless, why should a divine spell of great utility be taken away and replaced with a (dubious?) arcane spell?
Because Identify no longer works as presented in the 3.5 SRD?
Check out pages 24 and 60 of the most recent version of the Alpha doc. Magic items are now id'd by casting Detect Magic and making a skill check (Appraise) and DC = 15 + the item's caster level. This does require that the identifying character has Appraise as a trained skill.
Identify just adds a +10 enhancement bonus to that check. Since the check is Int based, anything that enhances your Int bonus will enhance that check as well.
The main reason for identify being added to the Magic domain was that it allowed parties to identify items for free. Identify only has an Arcane material component; non-arcane versions require no material components. Now that any spellcaster can identify with a detect magic and a Take 20, there's not really any need.
PS. Yes, I know you can't technically Take 20 on an Appraise check to ID a magic item. You can just re-cast detect magic over and over until you do beat the DC, though, as long as you have the time to do so. It might take you a couple days, but there's zero risk to it. Eternal Wands of identify are now dramatically cheaper as well.
The main reason for identify being added to the Magic domain was that it allowed parties to identify items for free. Identify only has an Arcane material component; non-arcane versions require no material components. Now that any spellcaster can identify with a detect magic and a Take 20, there's not really any need.
PS. Yes, I know you can't technically Take 20 on an Appraise check to ID a magic item. You can just re-cast detect magic over and over until you do beat the DC, though, as long as you have the time to do so. It might take you a couple days, but there's zero risk to it. Eternal Wands of identify are now dramatically cheaper as well.
If that was the reason for doing it, why not simply remove the cost for the wizards? I mean, the fact that the clerics can class feature into a Wizard spell and do it for free (better then a wizard ever could, even) to me...just...reeks.
If it was important enough to be done so it was possible without a cost, why not just change the dang spell in the first place.
The version of the spell in the Alpha release has been changed to remove the cost. However, that doesn't change the fact that what was possible in the 3.5 SRD is now no longer possible for clerics with the Magic domain.
Regardless of the cost of the spell or the changes in how the Appraise skill works, not all groups will have an arcane caster in a party for whatever reason, be it thematic or preference.
This just reminds me of discussions in 2nd Ed that asked why clerics did not have access to Permanency when they made magic items. I'd rather not go down that road.
Instead, suffice it to say that "Just use an arcane caster" may not be the solution that actually works for some groups.
My "group" is in this exact situation. I am playing a solo campaign with my wife using the Pathfinder rules and the duo is composed of a cleric of Osprem and a rogue. No arcane spellcaster in sight! ;)
The version of the spell in the Alpha release has been changed to remove the cost. However, that doesn't change the fact that what was possible in the 3.5 SRD is now no longer possible for clerics with the Magic domain.
I don't quite see what the problem is. The spell Identify is fairly useless (since the DC to identify an item with Appraise is so low), so any cleric is almost as good at identifying magic items as a wizard. Even a 1st-level cleric with 8 Int can identify items of caster level 8 or less, and a simple Guidance orison increases that to level 9 or less.
If you really plan on having your cleric identify items, you probably should think of investing in a wand of detect magic. Or all of your 0/1 levels slots to detect magic and make a day of it.
In Pathfinder, you can cast a 0-level spell as often as you want. The "slots" only indicate which 0-level spells you can use that day.
So "taking 20" is easy enough (as long as you're not in combat).
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In Pathfinder, you can cast a 0-level spell as often as you want. The "slots" only indicate which 0-level spells you can use that day.So "taking 20" is easy enough (as long as you're not in combat).
Even that won't be necessary as 2nd level clerics with the magic domain are able to use detect magic at will (which is kind of weak, imho, since any cleric could do so by using one of his orison slots for detect magic). If he had gotten identify he would be able to use it CL/2 times per day (which I would have prefered, since considering every cleric could do so the detect magic at will is rather weak).
Even that won't be necessary as 2nd level clerics with the magic domain are able to use detect magic at will (which is kind of weak, imho, since any cleric could do so by using one of his orison slots for detect magic). If he had gotten identify he would be able to use it CL/2 times per day (which I would have prefered, since considering every cleric could do so the detect magic at will is rather weak).
I agree the level 2 Magic domain ability is pretty weak. I think identify level/2 times per day would be pretty weak, too. Maybe Mage Hand at will? Or Unseen Servant level/2 per day?