Cure minor wounds - at will


Combat & Magic


One house rule that I currently have in my 3.5 game is the option to allow all spellcasters to choose a 0th level spell that can be cast at-will at 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter.

Paizo's intention to allow this by default is a bold move, and one that I like.

But I also allow clerics to pick CMW as one of their at-will choices.

Solution? I modified CMW to only cure someone up to *half* their total hit points. So, if a PC is at 15/40 hit points, CMW can cure them to 20 hp, but not to 21.

The intention was to let them continue to foray into the dungeon, but not at full strength. It also makes the cleric really think about where and when he wants to use his other cure spells - "waste" one one in the middle of battle when someone gets close to zero, or hope they pull through so that it can be used to take them to 51% and beyond?

Thoughts?

Sovereign Court Contributor

I mentioned this somewhere else, but I currently already use at will 0-level spells. I, like Paizo, switched CmW to Stabilize (although mine brings the character to 0, stable, but still unconscious).

Lately I have been thinking about reinstating CmW and just letting the PCs heal themselves. they can only heal 10 hp/minute this way, so I can still interrupt them with an encounter if I want to keep them on their toes, but I wouldn't have to worry as much about them pushing one encounter too far and TPKing themselves. I could build all my encounters on the assumption that they are more or less at full power, and that would usually be true.

The other (potentially worse, or at least more annoying) problem this would overcome is it would make them less likely to retreat from the dungeon after an encounter when the only thing left in the dungeon is the room full of prisoners that need to be rescued, or whatever. That has happened in my games way more often than TPKs from pushing too far, but they have both happened and are both symptoms of the same issue.


die_kluge wrote:

One house rule that I currently have in my 3.5 game is the option to allow all spellcasters to choose a 0th level spell that can be cast at-will at 3rd level and every 3 levels thereafter.

Paizo's intention to allow this by default is a bold move, and one that I like.

Actually Paizo's gone you a step further - every cantrip or orison you prepare has infinite castings per day. It is the shiznat.

However, I would point out that cure minor wounds is gone, replaced by stabilize. You can't use orisons to heal anymore, but the fundamental effect of cure minor (stabilize the dying) is now a codified orison that does only that.

I also like what they've done with some of the buff/heal Domain/School abilities, where they can be used as often as desired but only once per day on a given target.


There is already an existing game mechanic that would really help with the limited clerical healing- Lay on Hands. If a cleric had a finite pool of healing like this, it would keep the balance and not have to boost turning undead into a healing ability.

Dark Archive

I'm using the infinite 0-level spell allowance, but instead of eliminating CMW, I say that a casting of it actually uses up the spell slot (like in 3.5), in the interests of backwards compatability.

Allowing CMW to heal up to half hit points takes a lot of the edge off of danger, or cumulative encounters draining resources. Now, we might be talking the elimination of needing so many Cure Light Wounds wands, and maybe it's a good thing, but I know that it would have ripples on the game.

One of our current groups plays with a character who has an aura of healing to take everyone to half hit points, and I think it causes our current DM to throw bigger encounters at us, because it's easy to bounce back between encounters.


Archade wrote:


One of our current groups plays with a character who has an aura of healing to take everyone to half hit points, and I think it causes our current DM to throw bigger encounters at us, because it's easy to bounce back between encounters.

...and that's a problem because??


Rambling Scribe wrote:
Lately I have been thinking about reinstating CmW and just letting the PCs heal themselves. they can only heal 10 hp/minute this way, so I can still interrupt them with an encounter if I want to keep them on their toes, but I wouldn't have to worry as much about them pushing one encounter too far and TPKing themselves. I could build all my encounters on the assumption that they are more or less at full power, and that would usually be true.

I agree with you 100%. 10 HP/minute is not going to break the bank. And if the party wants to sit around for a couple of hours, you can always spring a wandering monster into their midst. :)

Liberty's Edge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Companion, Lost Omens, Pawns, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Infinite Cure Minor is broken, even half HP is broken.

With a half HP rule, suddenly Cure Minor is better then all the other spells. Sure it can't heal you to full, but it can heal a lot more then Cure Light and Cure Moderate in most cases.

Cure Moderate can heal 16 + whatever (max 26)... Cure Minor can heal 16 + whatever (no max). Doesn't seem right, it's good it's gone.

Also, the concept of creature encounters in the middle of "Cure Minor Break" is ridiculous. How do the characters get any sleep if they're always being attacked?

Sovereign Court Contributor

SirUrza wrote:
Also, the concept of creature encounters in the middle of "Cure Minor Break" is ridiculous. How do the characters get any sleep if they're always being attacked?

Just because there is time for an encounter if you want to put one in, doesn't mean you have to put one in every time.

As for the rest, Cure Moderate can heal 2d8+CL in a single action in combat, where cure minor can heal only 1 hp in that same action. That sounds like a decent advantage for cure moderate.

The question is, is it more or less useful from a balance and planning perspective to have the opportunity for the PCs to heal up between encounters, with limitations when appropriate? Limitations meaning that the DM can have an encounter interrupt them if appropriate to the situation

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

I much prefer the "Stabilize" solution. If you are bet up badly, you should have to nurse those wounds a while, not be perfectly fine after 10 minutes

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Card Game, Rulebook Subscriber

I thought the stabilize spell was a much better idea myself.

Sovereign Court Contributor

Well as I said earlier, that was my initial idea, and it works well from my experience. I'm just starting to wonder how it would go with CmW back in the mix, and mostly I'm thinking it would make adventure design easier.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Well, maybe it would make adventure design easier, but it would also rip quite a few holes into the already-ailing logic of the world ;) I mean, if you can't poison kings anymore... ;)

But seriously, it may be easy to allow the party to "rest to full resources". But the break in continuity remains (it takes a while to restore the 100 HP fighter), it even gets worse, because many groups won't want to use "expensive" healing anymore.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

SirUrza wrote:
With a half HP rule, suddenly Cure Minor is better then all the other spells.

If you allowed it to heal up to full hp, but added a costly material component - say, healing salve worth 1 gp - infinite cure minor would be about the same as a cure light wand: no more and no less broken. (Plus, it would mean that clerics carry jars of healing salve instead of bundles of healing sticks, which makes infinitely more sense.)


In my play test, especially at first level, I find that the clerics' healing spells are used more quickly with the increased hit point options. They have a hard time healing everyone back up to full and keeping them going. I think the heal to 1/2 is a good solution. I also think I will try heal to full in a playtest.


One thing I would suggest, to bring Stabilize up to being "good" rather than "vaguely useful"... let it be a close-range spell, don't make the cleric have to run around to heal everyone.

If the cleric can quickly stabilize someone with a prayer, then continue defending himself against the ravaging demon, rather than having to fall back- it keeps them useful. Touch range, I can understand, is necessary and balancing for healing, but for just stabilizing, it seems a little bit unnecessary.

Sovereign Court

Wicht wrote:
I thought the stabilize spell was a much better idea myself.

Let me vote for stabilize as well.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Blue_eyed_paladin wrote:
One thing I would suggest, to bring Stabilize up to being "good" rather than "vaguely useful"... let it be a close-range spell, don't make the cleric have to run around to heal everyone.

I like this idea very much. It could also work for the bleed (anti-stabilize) spell proposed elsewhere on this forum.


Epic Meepo wrote:
Blue_eyed_paladin wrote:
One thing I would suggest, to bring Stabilize up to being "good" rather than "vaguely useful"... let it be a close-range spell, don't make the cleric have to run around to heal everyone.
I like this idea very much. It could also work for the bleed (anti-stabilize) spell proposed elsewhere on this forum.

Well I didn't read the bleed spell but didn't the rogue have a similar ability? Seems like that would make it a great counter for that.

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