RACES - Dwarves


Races & Classes


Change the racial traits to:
+2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Dexterity: dwarves are tough and wise, but their stubby fingers, short legs, and stout frames make them less dexterous and agile.

Gruff: Dwarves receive a -2 modifier to any Diplomacy checks because they can be a bit stubborn when trying to negotiate.

Here's my logic:

The SRD states: "Charisma measures a character’s force of personality, persuasiveness, personal magnetism, ability to lead, and physical attractiveness. This ability represents actual strength of personality, not merely how one is perceived by others in a social setting."

I always felt that dwarves have a very strong force of personality, have an ability to lead, etc. Sure they might be hard to deal with but this shouldn't mean that dwarven clerics, sorcerers, and paladins are at a loss for their Charisma. Have them be poor negotiators, not necessarily less charismatic. A negative Diplomacy modifier makes sense.

It also makes more sense to give them a negative modifier to Dexterity. They have stubby fingers and they are not as agile. This is why dwarves typically rely on sturdy (and usually restrictive) plate mail instead of light chain.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

I like this change. The question is how much better is this compared to how less backward compatible is it? Overall, I say give the dwarves the negative to dex. This also opens the door to dwarven battle bards.

Sovereign Court

Used this for years but as +2 Con -2 Dex. Not sure why they get two bonuses vs. one penalty.

Sovereign Court

I like this one as well. And it complements the new elven Unnatural Beauty. That doesn't give them a bonus to Cha, just a bonus to a Cha skill.

But then we have someone wihout a Cha penalty. Maybe this should be a new thread (and I think I've seen others posting about this), but now the half-orc could get the Cha penalty instead of Int, which makes more sense, I think.

The Exchange

Timault Azal-Darkwarren wrote:

Change the racial traits to:

+2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Dexterity: dwarves are tough and wise, but their stubby fingers, short legs, and stout frames make them less dexterous and agile.

Gruff: Dwarves receive a -2 modifier to any Diplomacy checks because they can be a bit stubborn when trying to negotiate.

I like this. I always thought the deduction to CHA to be a bit off. I have never seen dwarves as weak leaders or poor at intimidation.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

A similar idea was approached in the DMG, in chapter 6 where it discussed subraces. It gave an example subrace of dwarves with a +2 Con and -2 Dex.


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SargonX wrote:
Maybe this should be a new thread (and I think I've seen others posting about this), but now the half-orc could get the Cha penalty instead of Int, which makes more sense, I think.

If half-orcs get the Cha penalty, then they should get a +2 to Intimidate checks, IMO. I usually house-rule that way in 3.5 games.


In 3.5, I have replaced the -2 to charisma for half-orcs and Dwarves with a -2 to charisma skills. this seems like a good way to punish them for their social limitations without limiting their spellcasting.


It's good to see that I'm not the only one who felt this way.


If the dwarf is to take a penalty to dex, give it a bonus to disable device. I don't want to see the dwarven thiefcatcher/trapfinder build using rogue as the base class to be hurt.

Sovereign Court

I support this change; my favorite subrace are the gold dwarves of Forgotten Realms (+2 Con, -2 Dex).


Narthon wrote:
If the dwarf is to take a penalty to dex, give it a bonus to disable device. I don't want to see the dwarven thiefcatcher/trapfinder build using rogue as the base class to be hurt.

But dwarves always have excellent tools which make up for their Dexterity loss. A "thiefcatcher" or "trapfinder" will be able to use their skills and stonecunning to find the traps and their masterfully crafted tools to deal with them.

If you're speaking about a particular prestige class then that can be handled in the prestige class description.


My houseruls is +2 Con, -2 Dex, -2 Cha. A constitution bonus can easily take on both dex and charisma - both aren't useful to most dwarves (fighters with heavy armour), anyway.

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