RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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One of my biggest pet peeves with 3.5 is the structure of armor. I like the theoretical concept of light, medium, and heavy, but I'm not thrilled that in each category, once you hit 3rd level or so and can afford it, all PCs wear either the chain shirt, breastplate, or full plate (except druids).
It's even worse with mithril. I think one change that's needed is simply removing the quality of mithril that makes armor count as one category lighter. Keep the armor check and arcane failure reductions and the lower weight though.
I don't have an idea about how to fix the "best in the category" issue, but hopefully smarter people than me can come up with a good solution.
better defining armor would be nice maybe give diff benefits or something.
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I don’t know if there is a way to fix that in the rules. It seems to me that the only way to shake things up is through the flavor of the game, and what the DM wants to allow based on a character’s background.
I would like to see if it is possible to include new armor in the PRPG though. Like Scaled Leather or Brigandine (Did I spell that right?) and Ring Mail. The last two were in the 2nd edition PHB and I regularly use all three in my games. They are from the 3.0 Arms and Equipment Guide. I’m not sure if it is OGC or not though.
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I don't really have a fix in mind, per se.
The main problem with the armor is that the most AC bonus you're gonna have is +9 (not including magic mods)
chain shirt gives +4 ac, but has a max dex of +4.
breastplate +5 with max dex of +3. You're better off having bracers of armor.
I often wondered why they don't have an "armor focus" feat.
Say it gives +1 to your ac. And if you take "armor specialization" you get DR/2-
Or maybe at least eliminate the max dex for light armor...
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What I've found in my games is two factors change how what the characters use for armour:
1. Availability: If they can't find the armour that they want, they take the best that they can wear. Thus, if one is using a +4 breastplate (+4 Dex, +9 Armour) and they find +4 Mountain Plate (+14 Armour, +0 Dex), and they have no dexterity score, then they'll take Mountain Plate (as long as they have the feat, and don't mind losing the speed). This leads into the second thing,
2. Maximum Dex/Armour AC total
Found armour always has a better rating at lower levels than built armour, because of the trade in rules. Now, if the players have the ability to buy whatever they want, then they'll always buy mithril chain or whatever else works with a +5 Dexterity.
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Its an interesting point that if you have the dex you really always go for the best armor in your chosen category.
one thing I hadn't considered before but that became an interesting consideration through reading this thread was to rework the armor based on their potential merits beyond AC.
but to do this armor needs to be streamlined to a closer AC category...
Light armors
Padded and leather should be +2 AC
Studded leather and chain shirt should be +3 AC
ACP -2
Max Dex of all light armors is +5
10% arcane spell failure
Medium armors
Chainmail, and hide should be +4 AC
Breastplate and scale mail should be +5 AC
ACP -4
Max Dex of all Medium armors is +3
Stealth and movement based skills suffer a -5 penalty
20% arcane spell failure
medium armors do not reduce movement
Medium armors provide DR 2/-
Heavy Armors
Splint mail and Banded mail should be +7 AC
Half and Full plate should be +8 AC
ACP -6
Max Dex of all Heavy Armors is + 1
Stealth and movement based skills suffer a -10 penalty (you cannot tumble, jump, or swim).
50% arcane spell failure
Heavy armors do not reduce movement.
Heavy armors provide DR 5/-
Masterwork reduces the stealth and movement based penalties by 1
Mithril makes armor lighter by one category reducing the effect on all stealth and movement based skills by an additional -2 (for a total of -3 for being masterwork) and reducing arcane spell failure by 5%
Each armor would then have a specialist feat (armor focus) that could provide unique benefits to that armor showing your extra knowledge of that armors strengths.
for example; padded armor focus would provide a +2 bonus to stealth skills and DR 2/slashing, chainmail focus would provide DR 5/bludgeoning. full plate would provide DR 10/piercing.
I often wondered why they don't have an "armor focus" feat.
The Star Wars Saga rules have a nice selection of armor modifying abilities. They are talents (of the Soldier class) in that system, but could easily be feats. It might be a good example for the designers if they decide to add some armor-improving bits.
As an aside, in my own D&D game, we've modified the armor tables somewhat to make the other armor types a bit more attractive. As mentioned above, its usually a matter of changing the max dex and AC a little.
As long as the subject of armor has come up, I, for one, would really like to see Armor converted to a DR modifier. First off, its more realistic. Secondly, it tends to make "best of breed" a much less clearcut issue.
AC becomes based of DEX, limited by Armor Worn, and enhanced by feats and some magic. So, heavier armor, you are more likely to get hit, but also more likely to shrug off most of the damage. Light armor you are less likely to get hit, but take more of the damage when you do. Armor also helps against magic this way, which tends to help moderate some of the power disparities at mid to high levels. Figureing out what works best will be highly dependent of exactly which feats are taken and your actual DEX, meaning "best in breed" is no longer a fixed issue.
Add in a fixed modifer by class (yes, I like the Bab5 System) and this cleans up a lot of the problems with armor, IMHO.
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forgot to add to my rundown that heavy armors do not allow you to run either.
Also heavy armors should provide a -2 penalty to attack rolls with light weapons and ranged weapons since their design is very restrictive on movement of the arms, locked shoulder plates would make it very hard to draw a bow properly and plated gauntlets would make holding a rapier difficult. Masterwork would reduce this by 1.
I been thinking some more over what benefits each armor would provide. the following is a list of benefits characters would gain by having armor focus (focus) in the armor of choice.
Light Armors
Padded: +2 to stealth skills, DR 2/slashing.
Leather: +2 to movement skills, DR 2/slashing.
Studded leather: +1 to stealth skills DR 2/slashing.
Chain shirt: +1 to movement skills DR 2/bludgeoning.
Medium Armors
Hide: +2 to movement and stealth skills, DR 5/slashing
Chainmail: +1 to movement and stealth skills, DR 5/bludgeoning
Breastplate: DR 5/piercing
Scale mail: DR 5/bludgeoning
Heavy Armors
Banded mail: +2 movement and stealth skills, DR 10/bludgeoning
Splint mail: attack rolls with light weapons and ranged weapons -1 instead of -2, DR 10/bludgeoning
Half Plate: DR 10/piercing
Full Plate: DR 10/-
Additional strengths and weaknesses of armor
Armors could provide a penalty to initiative checks based on their weight. say -1, -2 and -3 respectively, Mithril and/or masterwork could easily reduce this. As an additional benefit to the armor focus feat this penalty could be further reduced (or removed entirely).
Analysis: the idea behind these is to provide benefits to the martial classes most likely to wear the armors.
light armor would obviously be favored by rogues due to its ability to offer bonuses to the skills (which actually equate to no penalty) they rely on.
medium armors favor more combat orientated classes, especially those who favor missile weapons such as bows and crossbows or weapons requiring a degree of manual dexterity.
Heavy armors provide a greater degree of physical resistance to damage at the expense of maneuverability.
DR being a part of armor is a very important issue. I will support builds that adds DR to standard armors
From what I understand, AC reflects that your armor turns blows on a regular basis. Your number of attacks in a 6 second round are not the only attacks that you do on your opponent, just the ones that have the greatest chance of hitting.
I for one whould not like to see AC changed into DR. That would lead to the individual with the most HP most likely winning the fight, especially at high levels when hitting AC 10 is so easy.
I would have no object to having armor tweaked a bit, say adding in a low DR/- to heavy armor, to make them more attractive.
I prefer to keep the rules simple. In DnD 1, each armor had variables depending on which weapon was used to attack. It was more realistic, but not nearly as much fun to play.
Can of worms - check, can opener - check.
Changing AC to DR would not be backwards compatible, agreed.
But if say DR 1/- was added for banded mail, DR 2/- for half-plate and DR 3/- for full plate, it would make them more attractive and mostly stay backwards compatible.
Actually, I felt that 3.x cleaned this up a bit, by adding the Dex max. But, I can see where there is still a problem. Although my characters, honest engine... tend to stick with either studded leather, leather, or scale mail.
Just a flavor preference....
I always hated the old concept of 2nd and 1st edition... if you are a fighter, even a Dex fighter, you automatically strive for +5 platemail.
Can of worms - check, can opener - check.
Hot sauce- check.
Changing AC to DR would not be backwards compatible, agreed.
But if say DR 1/- was added for banded mail, DR 2/- for half-plate and DR 3/- for full plate, it would make them more attractive and mostly stay backwards compatible.
Unearthed Arcana already provides an option for this, so it isn't totally outside existing rules. Up until about the last 6 months, AC entries usually included a breakout of what made up the AC, so conversions wouldn't be that bad.
As for the large chart on effects of armor, DR's v particular types aren't a bad idea, but should look more like:
Organic Armor: X/Slashing or Ballistic*
Flexible Inorganics: X/Piercing or Ballistic*
Rigids: X/Bludgening or Ballistic*
* Mideval Armors do not protect against even D&D primitive firearms, which of course gave rise to the DEX fighter in the first place.
The comment on "if AC is DR, then the person with the most HP wins" is interesting. This means that fighters in heavy armor tend to become combat machines, while lighter armored types become skirmishers and non-fighters shouldn't really try to get in straight up fights with fighters. Yep, that sounds like a terrible idea. :)
Like msot of you seem to have been, I've been around for all the additions too and am not going to be totally bummed by not changing AC, but I do think the Optional Rules for it in Unearthed Arcana tend to be 1) More realistic and 2) help eliminate best of breed armors both of which I consider good things. At a minimum, including a DR Option/Sidebar and then writting adventures so that AC is broken down to make it easy to use would b great, IMHO.
The comment on "if AC is DR, then the person with the most HP wins" is interesting. This means that fighters in heavy armor tend to become combat machines, while lighter armored types become skirmishers and non-fighters shouldn't really try to get in straight up fights with fighters. Yep, that sounds like a terrible idea. :)
Tis more a question of balance for me. An individual in heavy armor should not automatically win against a more lightly armored foe. They should have an edge, due to their armor, but not an overwhelming advantage.
Full plate armor has a heavy helmet, with a narrow vision slit, but for ease of play, they have the same all-around sight as a helmetless individual. That helmetless individual has the opportunity to easily get into the blindsides of the plate guy, gaining advantages and the possibility of doing something like hamstringing.
Personally, I prefer the more streamlined rules, rather than the more realistic ones.
I think I throw my alternate armor stats into the ring, too.
Changes highlighted
Chain Armor: 200 gp, AC +5; max. Dex +3; penalty -4, spell failure 30%, weight 35 lb.
Breastplate: 500 gp, AC +6; max. Dex +2; penalty -5, spell failure 25%, weight 35 lb.
Splint Armor: 150 gp, AC +5; max. Dex +2; penalty -5, spell failure 30%, weight 40 lb.
Half-Plate Armor: 600 gp, AC +7; max. Dex +1; penalty -6, spell failure 40%, weight 45 lb.
Chain Armor, Splint Armor, and Half-plate are still not state of the art armor, but you would wear them if the stores don't have the top notch stuff available or you're short on monney. You're no longer having only penalties for buying a more expensive armor.
Breastplate was changed to create a roughly even balance.