Grompf the 10th level Fighter has a Constitution of 16
He has 130 potential hitpoints and rolled for a maximum of 90 hitpoints.
He would be disabled between 0 and -3 hitpoints
He would be unconscious between -4 and -16 hitpoints
He would be dying between -17 and -56
I think the -56 is way out. I makes dying very unlikely. I don't say turn PF into insta-gib, but as I said already (in another thread): Without danger, there can be no heroism.
I'm not against changing the boundries.
If said fighter is staggered/disabled between 0 and -3, dying between -4 and -15, and dead at -16, that's okay. I don't like absolute numbers like "10% of stabilisation" or "die at -10", but -55 HP before you die? Someone was beat down by some big critter, but then easily survives two fireballs he can't dodge before he croaks? Sorry, but nope.
Personally, I don't think D&D wouldn't be D&D if you didn't roll for stats or HP - I used point buy and fixed HP for quite some time now, and if you want to tell me I'm not playing D&D, you better tell that to wizards, so I get my money back for all the rulebooks I've been using - I think D&D wouldn't be D&D without options.
So what I'm for:
For ability scores, keep the standard as 4d6 drop lowest, any order, but let the book have a number of options like point buy (with several values so, from low-powered to powerhouse), different rolling methods, alternate point buy (where an 18 costs 18 points), even using a deck of cards (harrow, tarot, your standard 32 or 55 card deck).
For HP, keep rolling as standard, maybe with con score as a one-time bonus, but offer options both for starting HP and all hp, like the options for starting HP in Alpha 1, and things like fixed half, half+1, 3/4 or even full for further rolls.
For the thresholds, I can go with the con method I described above as standard (or keep the 0 -10 numbers of 3.5), but offer options like (whatever you didn't go with as standard), dying at 0, a threshold having to do with total (or even potential total) hp, like -halfTotal or -total, or even half or full potential total.
All the choices should have a short note about how it affects the game: "This makes characters a bit stronger", "this makes death highly unlikely", "this turns your campaign into a meatgrinder".
Rolling for ability scores and hit points is fun. I've got other RPGs that you don't. If I want to play that way, I'll play them. I like the rolling aspect of D&D character generation (and hit points at level).
I ain't gonna be doing dead at -56. That's crazy. I like characters dying every once in a while. Makes me feel all tingly when the situation gets drastic.
Tieing the death number to the Con seems okay. Even Con + Level. So a dude with 13 Con needs to die at -13 hp. But if he is level one he dies at -14, and -33 at level 20 (which isn't exactly a crazy number to hit in them levels).
I've got other RPGs that you don't.
So? Well *I* have a pretty horsey!
;-P
I think that a choice should be allowed between rolling and point buy for ability scores. Obviously the DM has the final word on what method is allowed in his campaign.
I also think there should be a choice between rolling and fixed hit points, also at DM discretion. In a campaign I'm going to dm I'm going to allow people to either alternate between half and half+1 or roll at each level. That will let characters choose to take the risk or just go with average.
The HP thing can easily be house ruled though. I'd like to see a point buy OPTION actually in the PRPG handbook.
**Edit: Also I'd really like if the dying rules were kept atleast somewhat the way they are. I certainly don't think we need to get deep into the negatives to die, at ANY level.
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I think that's too confusing to adjucate into the rules. I have some playtest to help this though. My game tonight started off with me adding in some of the Paizo stuff. The first order was to give the PC's a HP boost so I decided to give them 10 HP that they would have got if they were at first level. This gave me some numbers to work with. The party consist of a Human Duskblade, a Human Binder, a Halfelf Warmage, and a Gnome Rogue. These 10 HP, didn't really affect the game in any way except up the survivability of the Warmage by one round. They were up against an Ankheg tonight which does 2d6+7+1d4 points of damage a hit. So the Warmage was lucky to have those extra points and they help with keeping characters around a little longer. As for death and dying, I use the variant rule from Unearthed Arcana. Also found here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/deathAndDying.htm
This has also helped survivability. It doesn't take away character death like 4e does but it makes it so that the players never know when their or another character will die.
I have been uing the following rules for a few years now, death is fairly rare because of them (Which is good because Raise Dead and co are very difficult to come by in my campaigns):
Death and dying rules
0HP to -4HP
You are fatigued, you can do a single move or standard action with out penalty. If you do a full round action you take a point of damage.
-5HP to -9HP
You are exhausted, You can not take a full round action, If you take a no action or a none strenuous single action such as moving or retrieving a stowed item (which takes 2 rounds) you get no worse. Take a strenuous action and you lose another HP at the end of the action.
-10Hp and beyond
You are Exhausted, Unconscious and Dying. You must make a Fortitude saving throw each round at the start of your go, the DC is equal to the minus Hit points you are on as a positive figure, e.g. -15HP is equal to a DC15 Fort save.
Make the save and you stabilise as just unconscious (still exhausted)
Fail the saving throw by 5 points or less, you lose another HP but do not get any worse.
Fail the saving throw by more than 5 points and you lose 5HP and die at the start of your next go (this allows you one round for another character to save you, hard core rules are you die a soon as you fail the save)
Heal Skill, every time the dying character makes a saving throw to avoid death you make a Heal check. The dying character uses your check result or his or her saving throw, whichever is higher.
Feats:
Modify the following feats as follows:
Die Hard Feat.
This feat changes the Death and dying rules as follows.
0HP to -4HP
You are fatigued, You can otherwise act as normal.
-5HP to -9HP
You are exhausted, you can do a single move or standard action with out penalty. If you do a full round action you take a point of damage.
-10Hp and beyond
You are Exhausted and Dying. You can take only single actions each round, If you take a none strenuous single action such as moving or retrieving a stowed item (which takes 2 rounds) you get no worse. Take a strenuous action and you lose another HP at the end of the action.
You get a +4 bonus to you the Fortitude saving throw you make each round at the start of your go, the DC is equal to the minus Hit points you are on as a positive figure, e.g. -15HP is equal to a DC15 Fort save.
Make the save and you remain exhausted and dying (and unconscious and stable if you have already fallen unconscious).
Fail the saving throw by 5 points or less, you lose another HP and fall unconscious.
Fail the saving throw by more than 5 points and you lose 5HP, fall unconscious and die at the start of your next go (this allows you one round for another character to save you)
Lone Wolf
You get a +4 bonus onto any fortitude save to stabilise as detailed in the death and dying rules. This stacks with the +1 bonus to all fortitude saves granted bt the feat.
1. There should be minimum amount of hitpoints, regardless of die rolls.
Best of both worlds, eh? I've seen it, but I don't advocate it as the standard. I say if you want a shot at good HP rolls, you have to take the rist of bad HP rolls.
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A lot of folks do the 'roll twice, take the better of the two' for HP, either all the way through the campaign or at least through the levels where you are more likely to get squished by something(maybe up til 5 or something.)
As for the 'minimum amount of HP' then that could be done like the iron heroes system. Basically every class rolls a d4+<amount to reach the max score on their normal hit dice, assuming you roll a 4>. So in example, a barbarian would roll 1d4+8(since their normal max is 12) and a fighter would roll 1d4+6. It takes away some of the wild variances you can have in levels between characters who have the same sort of hit dice, but it also makes that one less painful.
Obviously depends on DM and player preference on grittiness.
-Tarlane
As far as dying goes, how about this:
Once you go below 0, you make a Fortitude save. If you fail, you're dead. If you save, you stabilize but you're still below 0 and unconscious. You make a save every round until you die or stabilize.
Is that too simple? Basically getting rid of some negative hit point range. This also brings up the scenario that someone could be "left for dead" but stabilize and heal naturally and come back later in a campaign.
No action points, please. I don't like them.
Once you go below 0, you make a Fortitude save. If you fail, you're dead. If you save, you stabilize but you're still below 0 and unconscious. You make a save every round until you die or stabilize.
But you die or stabilize after the first save. So further saves would never occur.
No action points, please. I don't like them.
But you die or stabilize after the first save. So further saves would never occur.
Once you go below 0, you make a Fortitude save. If you fail, you're dead. If you save, you stabilize but you're still below 0 and unconscious. You make a save every round until you die or stabilize.
I see. I was thinking "make a save every round you would take additional damage to die or stabilize." Of course at stage you would have to save vs. a coup de grace.
>>sneaked in another comment at work
For hit points I let my players roll and if they get below half maximum they get half maximum. (ie if you are rolling a d8 on a 1, 2, 3 or 4 you get 4hp.) then you add con. The average is about 0.5 to 1.25 hp per dice higher so not that big a deal but it avoids the fighter rolling a couple of dud hp rolls and becoming too weak.
Also it stops any whinging.