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I guess I had a different interpretation of the rules listed under "Adding Spells to a Sorcerer's or Bard's Repertoire" in the Magic section:

"A sorcerer or bard gains spells each time she attains a new level in her class and never gains spells any other way. When your sorcerer or bard gains a new level, consult Table: Bard Spells Known or Table: Sorcerer Spells Known to learn how many spells from the appropriate spell list she now knows. With permission from the GM, sorcerers and bards can also select the spells they gain from new and unusual spells that they come across while adventuring."

The PRD specifically stated under the wizard that he could perform spell research, as well as under the divine casters section. Not so under the Sorcerer and Bard. Unless there were errata listed somewhere I was not aware. It's good to know how other people see it because if the bard and sorcerer can research then they're not as pinned down as I thought.

Thanks for the replies Tyki11 and LazarX. I wanted to know how other people interpreted the rule about research because generally spontaneous casters, like the bard and sorcerer, could not. The oracle is a spontaneous caster too, albeit a divine one. Why the bard and sorcerer cannot I don't fully understand game mechanic wise, but if the oracle can then that makes the class that much more . . . versatile.

I wanted to pose a question to paizonians out there: Can Oracles perform spell research?

Do you think they fall more in line with sorcerers (no) or clerics (yes)? I couldn't find a rule in the books one way or another and wanted to know what other people think.

No action points, please. I don't like them.

gameboydb wrote:

Once you go below 0, you make a Fortitude save. If you fail, you're dead. If you save, you stabilize but you're still below 0 and unconscious. You make a save every round until you die or stabilize.

But you die or stabilize after the first save. So further saves would never occur.

I see. I was thinking "make a save every round you would take additional damage to die or stabilize." Of course at stage you would have to save vs. a coup de grace.

>>sneaked in another comment at work

As far as dying goes, how about this:

Once you go below 0, you make a Fortitude save. If you fail, you're dead. If you save, you stabilize but you're still below 0 and unconscious. You make a save every round until you die or stabilize.

Is that too simple? Basically getting rid of some negative hit point range. This also brings up the scenario that someone could be "left for dead" but stabilize and heal naturally and come back later in a campaign.

Any one can coment his/her experiences with the final combat with Karzoug? It seems to me VERY difficult, but perhaps i don't see something.

Are you asking to see how different groups tackled Karzoug for a gestalt final plan of operation? If so ...

That's just an idea.

Long story short: Our party needs at least 60 days to craft magic items and we only have 6 available to us. Using the Great Wheel cosmology, are there any planes where times moves faster there than it does on the Material Plane (ie: 5 days there equal 1 Material Plane day)?

I would say it's up to the GM. With as many infinite planes out there, who's to say there isn't? Do a knowledge: planes check 35 or 40. Success means you find a plane that time flows more quickly. Off the top of my head, time does not flow regularly on the Astral plane but I'm not sure how that works with crafting magic items.

...granted, #5 takes place in a demiplane, but I can easily make that underground, etc...

(One who hasn't seen Pathfinder #5 yet) Really? Demiplane? Hmmm....

St. Louis, MO (just outside of St. Peters).

So basically this translates into kill anything that breathes. Toss this at a really old dragon and the beast is still pretty much dead. On average it will spend the next 13 rounds coughing and doing nothing else - no save.

I figured that I'd screw my players over on the delivery method but they are wily and saw it coming. The fighter just ran forward and threw the stuff up in the air - sure he was effected too but that just meant that he and the dragon where both out of the picture - that left the rest of the party to see if they could manage to take it out with more then 10 rounds of attacks while the Dragon was incapable of taking any actions whatsoever.

At the risk of offering an overly simplistic solution, what would happen if one held one's breath? I don't have the rulebooks to look up the details of the powder or the rules of holding breath, but I believe holding one's breath is based on constitution. In the above-mentioned senario the dragon would be unable to use his breath weapon, but a dragon could easily hold his breath longer than a PC and still use his claws, wings, tail, etc.

The Istivin trilogy was another one...

Thanks, guys, for the replies. I wasn't sure if there were more than two or not.

My collection is currently in storage, can someone post how many 3-part adventure arcs there have been in Dungeon so far? I know Seeds of Sehan is the current one.

There is also a feat in the Unearthed Arcana book called "Skill Knowledge" that allows you to take a cross-class skill and make it a class skill. No requirements necessary.

Sounds like "Red Arrow/Black Shield" for v3.5.

1. Warforged Monk (from Alhaster)

2. Elf Scout (from Alhaster)

3. Human Cleric <me> (domains Strength/Destruction to contact temple of Cuthbert upon entry to Sasserine.)

4. Human Sorcerer (Native of Sasserine, met others as they got off the boat on behalf of Mrs. Vanderboren).

Sorry, no pirates in our group. Or ninjas, for that matter.

So far, in every account of the dragotha fight that I've read, the players have easily bested the undead dragon. I'm wondering if he's really as tough as some people think he is. On paper he looks ridiculously powerful, but perhaps people underestimate the power of high level PCs?

I think he is tough, if given the standard combat scenario. When I saw his stats I imagined he would beat down a party if they tried to whack him with a big stick. My adventuring party anticipated this so we tried an alternative solution, thinking outside the box for something not normally considered. Also we got lucky and beat Dragotha on initiative, when coupled with the fact that a high level party wins initiative that could make a world of difference against anybody. When PCs get to be high level (I consider 17+), writing challenging encounters may be tough, because the resources available to high-power characters with gool ol' creativity means you cannot conceive of every possible scenario; the Mother Worm thread touched a similar basis. I'm sure Dragotha thrashed someone, though.

Just wanted to say "thanks" for the reply, Lilith, it was helpful. It may have taken a little time for me to say thanks but I was recently on honeymoon. (A little yay for me!)

First off, congrats! I assume that would lead to a job promotion, which is always good.

I also noticed in an earlier post you mentioned art commisions; I then take it you produce artwork. Just wondering: exactly how you managed to get started with that. I have a bachelor's degree in illustration myself, but I was never a salesman so I couldn't/didn't know how to promote myself and am always curious how others have done. I realize this is really off topic for a D&D forum but I figured I could at least try to ask.

Again, well done with the certification.

Does anyone remember a published adventure-in-a-box where a teleporting mountain contained tribes of kobolds guarding a red dragon hoard? I wish I could remember the name of that one (I'll do a search later) but the kobolds in that were just evil little snootches! I distinctly remember poisoned arrows. Lot's of 'em. That was the best I've ever seen kobolds.

I remember an old adventure in Dungeon magazine I think was called "The Mud-sorcerer's Tomb". In it was a corridor filled with columns. When the party was halfway down the corridor the columns transformed into rust monsters. The first round of initiative every party member fled!

First, I like games: board games, card games, video games ... generally anything but head games, they suck.

Second, I constantly get comments on how young I look (boyish).

Third, "db" are my initials.

I just selected a monkey because monkeys are funny.

require no external

My pc's are gonna die.. They don't plan ahead or anything. They just smash down the door and roll inititave..

That sounds like it's going to be an entertaining tale! Hope you can retell it later.

Personally I like to solve puzzles and that has worked into my playing/fighting style. I currently play a wizard and I habitually talk my adventuring group into going MacGuyver in our sessions. The more out of left field, the better! Although, a couple times our plans were more complicated than they needed to be but our DM gets a kick out of it.

One time at 1st level our party was ambushed be piercers so, to prevent them from attacking us on the way out, I picked them up. On our next monster encounter I declared "I throw a piercer at it." He still ribs me about that even today.

I just love hearing (reading) things like this! The way the game mechanics work, crazy things can happen from time to time.
Throw in a kender and you can have classic comedy gold.

*Aw, snap!*

I just checked the description in the PH. You're right, JDillard. Major fau paux on my part. I'm surprised our DM didn't catch that, as well. I can bring that to the attention of our DM, but I don't know if he will want to replay the whole session or not. Also, the idea of the Grease spell was to aid in the bull rush attempt, not to actually cause Dragotha to fall. Our DM likes it when we utilize teamwork. But like you said, we all had fun.

That's a good point, I've Got Reach. Having the scene ala Balrog would have been cinematic! There's always the fight with Kyuss, I guess.

But the DM let us have it with Dragotha's buddies (the avolakias led by the derro, backed up with the nightcrawlers). It still wasn't easy.

Greetings, all. I'm new to the forums, but not to D&D (been playing since the red Basic box). First, wanted to say I'm loving the AoW adventure path. Good job, Paizo. But mostly I'm wondering how other players have handled taking down Dragotha. IMO, one of the best aspects of publishing adventures with "classic" characters and places is sharing how one dealt with them with other players. AoW has included such things as the Rod of Seven Parts, the Hand of Vecna, and now Dragotha. What was it like for others facing that undead monstrosity?

Our party's solution seemed to be oversimplified, but our DM allowed it. Below is what happened (scroll down due to spoilers):

Since Dragotha is like a legendary undead, we figured he would have all sorts of resistances and powers; a standard fight would be suicidal. We decided it would be best if we could get him in an environment that would be detrimental to him. After powering up with the standard Bless, Greater Magic Weapons, Aligned Weapons, etc. we had a description of the inner sanctum by Balakarde so we Greater Teleported in. Immediately rolling for initiative (Dragotha rolled a "1"!) the cleric cast Gate, creating a portal behind and below the perched Dragotha leading to the Positive Material Plane. I, the wizard, cast Polymorph Any Object on the fighter to turn him into a Titan (for high strength). The thief cast Grease from a Minor Spell Storing ring on top of the zigguraut, and the fighter then flew up and initiated a bull rush to shove Dragotha through the gate. The undead got off one bite in the rush (63 pts of damage) but lost the strength check and was pushed through. The cleric ceased concentration on the gate, closing it, and then we waited. We were hoping that a couple rounds in the Positive Material Plane would weaken him enough to make the fight easier before he returned, but he never came back. Our DM said, after double checking Dragotha's stats, that he didn't have anything that allowed extra-planar travel. Also, he didn't have anything to help protect from the effects of the Positive Material Plane, so he ruled that Dragotha perished in the positive energy furnaces.

I find it hard to believe that Dragotha couldn't travel between planes, but I glanced at a copy of the magazine in a store and I couldn't spot anything, either. Well, that was our showdown. Hope you enjoyed it. How did others do?