I know this might come off as blasphemous for some, but I was curious as to whether anyone has tried to place the Rise of the Runelords adventure path in the Greyhawk setting?
I DM a group of gamers that has spent many many years learning that campaign setting by heart and this has given a fantastic sense of verisimilitude because they know the countries, the races, the gods, etc., etc. and can roleplay accordingly.
Don't misunderstand -- I'm no newcomer to drastically altering adventures as written (in fact, I just about always alter things to fit my vision and my particular campaign and homebrew), but I am curious if anyone else has already done this and if so, if you have any tips for me? What changes did you find necessary (besides the obvious Gods and geography)? Did you find an existing country that really worked for you (offered the least amount of geographic or cultural changes to the storyline as written)?
Thanks in advance for any help.
This ties in to something I've been wondering -- when did Paizo find out that Dungeon and Dragon were being cancelled, and had you already started work on the next AP at that point? In other words, was RotRL ever intended to be set in Greyhawk in the first place?
Creative Director
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This ties in to something I've been wondering -- when did Paizo find out that Dungeon and Dragon were being cancelled, and had you already started work on the next AP at that point? In other words, was RotRL ever intended to be set in Greyhawk in the first place?
We more or less found out that the magazines were going away about around Gen Con 2006, which was also about the point where we were getting ready to brainstorm ideas for a new Adventure Path. SO: as it worked out, Rise of the Runelords was developed more or less from the ground up for Golarion, and we never did any work really at all about a Dungeon adventure path to follow up Savage Tide (apart from something along the lines of "Maybe some sort of genie incursion from the Sea of Dust?" idle chatter AT Gen Con, I suppose).
and we never did any work really at all about a Dungeon adventure path to follow up Savage Tide (apart from something along the lines of "Maybe some sort of genie incursion from the Sea of Dust?" idle chatter AT Gen Con, I suppose).
You have no idea how much it pains me to hear you say this was even a wisp of an idea for an adventure path! I've been fooling around w/ some ideas of my own for the Sea of Dust, and this would have provided unimagined delights and inspiration. If only I had a Ring of 3 Wishes...
To answer your question, Dark: Ratik, Ratik, Ratik...IMC not only has that area (the whole Corusk Mtns. region in fact)been a favorite of my players for years, but there are also many parallels worth noting-closely connected mountain and coastal settings, prevalence of humanoids and giants (and rangers), a lost city (Skrellingshald is mentioned in the 1st Ed. GH Adventures HC, Xin-Shalast in RotRL), and the frontier feel of the established human domains. When I will run RotRL I don't know (Recently started Savage Tide), but I have three of the PF issues and am eager to set it in Ratik and/or Bone March.
To answer your question, Dark: Ratik, Ratik, Ratik...IMC not only has that area (the whole Corusk Mtns. region in fact)been a favorite of my players for years, but there are also many parallels worth noting-closely connected mountain and coastal settings, prevalence of humanoids and giants (and rangers), a lost city (Skrellingshald is mentioned in the 1st Ed. GH Adventures HC, Xin-Shalast in RotRL), and the frontier feel of the established human domains. When I will run RotRL I don't know (Recently started Savage Tide), but I have three of the PF issues and am eager to set it in Ratik and/or Bone March.
Thanks Ring of Five! I will take a look at Ratik and the Bone March and look for the parallels you mentioned. Much appreciated.
I've thought long and hard about how to fit this campaign into Greyhawk and here is the best I could come up with.
In my campaign Iuz has been pushed further north to the land of black ice. He has left behind much of the northern Flaness. As his minions retreat humans and demi humans (mostly from the Bandit Kingdoms, Blackmoor, the Shield Lands, and Perrenland) have moved in to settle the land that was once called Iuz.
I replaced the Runelords with the Horned Sociey and adjusted the society to be devil worshippers that used infernal favors to enslave/dupe the stone giant population and use them to quickly (over 200 years) build a vast empire. The relics of this empire still exist in some part to the present day (CY 600 in my campaign). Each of the Horned society members worshipped a devil with a different aspect of sin.
So far this has worked seemlessly into my campaign. In fact my players had no idea that the adventures were actually part of the Pathfinder series until they reached the fourth installment.
I've thought long and hard about how to fit this campaign into Greyhawk and here is the best I could come up with.
In my campaign Iuz has been pushed further north to the land of black ice. He has left behind much of the northern Flaness. As his minions retreat humans and demi humans (mostly from the Bandit Kingdoms, Blackmoor, the Shield Lands, and Perrenland) have moved in to settle the land that was once called Iuz.
I replaced the Runelords with the Horned Sociey and adjusted the society to be devil worshippers that used infernal favors to enslave/dupe the stone giant population and use them to quickly (over 200 years) build a vast empire. The relics of this empire still exist in some part to the present day (CY 600 in my campaign). Each of the Horned society members worshipped a devil with a different aspect of sin.
So far this has worked seemlessly into my campaign. In fact my players had no idea that the adventures were actually part of the Pathfinder series until they reached the fourth installment.
Nice work Real Troll! Thanks for the reply. That has some distinct possibilities for my campaign as well. In particular, I like what you had to say about how you incorporated the Horned Society. My campaign is a few years behind you (CY 595) but I think I used more of the standard Greyhawk wars timeline of events so I'd have to go a slightly different path than you used, but you've given me plenty to think about. Thanks again.
That's two great possibilities for me from the awesome folks inhabiting the Paizo universe!
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Well my first inclination would be to place the campaign in Sterich. This might require a little bit of retrofitting but nothing too major I think. Sandpoint could become Istivin Crossing,Magnimar- Istivin city.The Goblins from "Burnt Offerings are based at the Davish Headwaters and their goblin leader is known as the Azure Prince. The Skinsaw murders would work well as is introducing haunted Istivin. The Hook Mountain Massacre could be run almost as is with Fort Rannick being one of the recovered border forts that was awarded to Order of the Black Arrow during the liberation war.The only problem arising with how to handle the flooding of the town of Turtleback Ferry. The Fortress of the Stone Giants could be located in either the Crystalmists or the Jotens. I dont have Pathfinder 5 or 6 yet but I imagine that they also wouldnt be that hard to adapt.
The only problem that Im not sure how to handle is the deitys. Lamashtu in particular plays an important role and Im not sure what would be a good replacment for her.
I had also considered replacing the Runelords with the Horned Society. But in the end it might just be better and easier to leave them as is. After all they fell like 10 000 years ago so having them come back isnt that big of a deal.
Also if you dont mind having to boost the encounters in later adventures you could insert the Istivin Trilogy from Dungeon magazine just after or before the Hook Mountain Massacre. This might bring you players closer to 18th-20th level by the end of the campaign.
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Another good location could be the Wild Coast region. Every time I read Lost Coast whatever I kinda get the idea that was what James was thinking of. Sandpoint could become Safeton or you could just slip Sandpoint as is somewher on the coast.Verbobonc,Dyvers or Greyhawk city could become Magnimar. The Nyr Dyv the Storval Deep and the Kron Hills and Lortmil Mountians work as the Iron Peaks. Karzoug could be replaced by Iuz who has decided to tap the ancient power of greed in order that he may crush his multitude of enemies starting with the Free City of Greyhawk.
Sterich sounds like an interesting possibility--SSM. I'd further add that it should be easy to connect the Runelords to the ancient Suel mages, and some of the Thassilonian ruins could easily be placed in remote parts of the Crystalmists or the Sea of Dust and converted into Suloise ruins that somehow survived the Rain of Colorless Fire. Karzoug could be a Suloise mage who went into suspended animation. (The chronology here is a little less ancient, but it doesn't matter that much--2,000 years or 10,000, it's still a long time ago.) As for Lamashtu, I'd keep her as is and find a spot for her as a demon-lord in the abyss, or put her in Pandemonium and give her a divine portfolio. Maybe she's been asleep in a cave in Pandemonium for aeons, since her secret worshippers in the ancient Suel empire died in the Rain of Colorless Fire. Now the events in the AP have conspired to reawaken her. No need to swap her out for Tharizdun or something. Alternatively, she could be an entirely new goddess--maybe the witch-queen Iggwilv has finally achieved divine status and taken on a new guise.
The Ratik option might be cool too, and it sets up the second Pathfinder AP nicely--Korvosa and Cheliax sound very Great Kingdom-ish to me--so the second AP could be set in the capital of Ahlissa or the North Kingdom, or maybe in Rel Astra. That section of Greyhawk is underdeveloped, so it should be easy to insert stuff--the Griff Mts. are vast and undoubtedly have many ancient ruins and such, so it makes perfect sense that there might be the remains of a 10,000 year old civilization there that is virtually unknown to the present inhabitants of the lowlands around it.
Another good location could be the Wild Coast region. Every time I read Lost Coast whatever I kinda get the idea that was what James was thinking of. Sandpoint could become Safeton or you could just slip Sandpoint as is somewher on the coast.Verbobonc,Dyvers or Greyhawk city could become Magnimar. The Nyr Dyv the Storval Deep and the Kron Hills and Lortmil Mountians work as the Iron Peaks. Karzoug could be replaced by Iuz who has decided to tap the ancient power of greed in order that he may crush his multitude of enemies starting with the Free City of Greyhawk.
Savage_ScreenMonkey -- thanks for both the Sterich and Wild Coast suggestions. I have had my campaign on the Coast for years now (spending time in Greyhawk, the various Ulek states, and all wilds in-between) and it has been a helluva lot of fun for me as a DM and my players. It is so easy to have almost anything go down there. Honestly, this was my first idea when considering this whole notion. Part of me wants to do that to continue to build upon my players' collective knowledge and experience with the area but part of me feels like I've already tapped out enough ancient secrets in the Suss and strange new monsters, etc. and that I should be doing something entirely new. Hmmmmmm....decisions decisions. I have a few good possibilities now so I just have to start researching and tweaking (a favorite DM pastime no?)
Thank you to everyone that shared thoughts and opinions on this matter.
Whoa! Peruhain of Brithondy - just missed your post before I sent mine.
I agree with you that the Ratik option is intriguing and that the underdeveloped "east side" of the map is undiscovered country that a lot could be done with. It is wide open.
Then again ... I've been messin' with my players heads with various revivals of ancient Suel cultures and outposts for years now so doing the Sterich and Crystalmists connection might be the easiest for me. I dabbled in the area a few years ago and had a good time watching my players freak out fighting giants.
Finally, I really appreciate you taking time to focus in on Lamashtu and give some thoughts on how to handle her as a goddess. That, in particular, has been bothering me. You gave some good suggestions. Thanks!
Another thought--Perrenland might work pretty well--you've got the Yatils to the West and the open expanses of the nomads to the north (sub for Shoanti!), and the country has a loose enough political structure to account for the relationship between Magnimar and Korvosa.
As for Lamashtu, I'd keep her as is and find a spot for her as a demon-lord in the abyss, or put her in Pandemonium and give her a divine portfolio.Lamashtu doesn't need to be imported. Someone, probably James, put a couple mentions of her in FCI :)
Tessius ... I know I'm a bit slow in the head but what is "FCI?"
No problem :) it's the first Fiendish Codex. I was rereading it a month or two before RotRL started and was surprised to see a couple references to Lamashtu.
Tessius ... I know I'm a bit slow in the head but what is "FCI?"
Ahhhh .... thanks! Haven't read that but good to know she is referenced elsewhere should I decide to use her.
Another thought--Perrenland might work pretty well--you've got the Yatils to the West and the open expanses of the nomads to the north (sub for Shoanti!), and the country has a loose enough political structure to account for the relationship between Magnimar and Korvosa.
No doubt. Good idea. I had a Highfolk/Vesve campaign a few years ago that went well and I dabbled with the idea of moving it into Perrenland but never got there. Maybe now is the time?
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As for Lamashtu, I'd keep her as is and find a spot for her as a demon-lord in the abyss, or put her in Pandemonium and give her a divine portfolio.Lamashtu doesn't need to be imported. Someone, probably James, put a couple mentions of her in FCI :)
Wow!
Youve got a freakin sharp eye Tessius!There it is page 155 FCI:HotA
Lamashtu:She who erases, concerned with monsterous birth,deformity rules over Torremor the 503rd layer of the abyss.
Well that solves that problem very neatly.
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Sterich sounds like an interesting possibility--SSM. I'd further add that it should be easy to connect the Runelords to the ancient Suel mages, and some of the Thassilonian ruins could easily be placed in remote parts of the Crystalmists or the Sea of Dust and converted into Suloise ruins that somehow survived the Rain of Colorless Fire. Karzoug could be a Suloise mage who went into suspended animation. (The chronology here is a little less ancient, but it doesn't matter that much--2,000 years or 10,000, it's still a long time ago.)
As always PoB your ideas rock. The Suloise archmage angle would be a perfect fit.
It seems clear to me that the World of Greyhawk has a near limitless potential for running a pathfinder AP. When it comes down to it its just a matter of personal taste as to where to place the campaign, and what you as a DM seek to explore in the world.Or maybe its just that Golarion has that World of Greyhawk feel.
I actually have most of the campaign integrated into Shackled city, and I'm running them as ONE campaign.
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I actually have most of the campaign integrated into Shackled city, and I'm running them as ONE campaign.
Wow, thats pretty nifty. Hows it going so far? How have you intergrated the two exactly? Did you basically pick and choose which adventures you liked or did you just take chunks from each and mash it all togther.
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Wow! Youve got a freakin sharp eye Tessius! There it is page 155 FCI:HotA
Lamashtu:She who erases, concerned with monsterous birth,deformity rules over Torremor the 503rd layer of the abyss.
Well that solves that problem very neatly.
I couldn't find the book before I went to work this afternoon. She's mentioned in passing as an old foe of Pazazu (I think it's him)and then mention in the table in the back of the book.
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So I was re-reading the PF modules and Im up to PF#4 now.Looking at the map of the Istivin Hinterlands from Dungeon #117, I was thinking that Sandpoint would fit nicely between Fitela and the the island in the middle of the Davish and Javan Rivers. That island could be a good spot for Thistle Top.Foxglove manor would be relativly close to Sandpoint. Istivin would double as Magnimar, even though its a port city in PF I dont recall that being all that important.Turtleback Ferry could be replaced with Mittleberg or maybe just moved a little closer to the Davish Headwaters. Fort Rannick could be the first non ruined border fort close to the Jotens. Hook mountian and the clan hold could be in the Jotens nearby and Skull Crossing could be a dam built by the dwarves, that holds back the Storval Deep under the Crystalmists back and was used to aid in the mining and smelting operations.The Storval Deep is fed by water run off from the mountians so the hag covey would still be needed to help it flood its banks. Black Magga is a Dwarven Legend that lives in this water. Many of these dwarves are now forced to mine and make weapons and armor for the war effort.Jorgenfist is located in the Crystalmists not all that far from the Hook mountian hold in the Jotens. Without having read the last two adventures I cant really say but I would think Xin-Shalast would be located deep within the Crystalmists.Once Ive read those it would be easier to say. Though Karzougs runewell sounds very much like the Deadgate from James Jacobs adventure "Headless" in Dungeon #89. Since this minor artifact was used by the Sueloise in ancient times it fits well. It would also be interesting if it was in fact Karzoug and the other Runelords who had called down the Invoked Devastation on the Baklunish, and thus caused them to retaliate with the Rain of Colorless Fire.Perhaps both sides had Runelords. Maybe the Runelords where the most powerful of the Suel Archmages.
Lots of excellent ideas!
Wow, I could now be tempted to run this AP in GH after all. Thanks to SSM and the others for this thread. (Wishes there were more than 24 hours to the day...or that I no longer required sleep...)