|
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Personally, I felt that this encounter was a little bleh, so I spiced it up a bit by showing off the Faceless Stalker's abilities to greater effect, and creating an interesting "fake-out" encounter. I figured I would share it in case anyone else was looking for ideas. I also added an aditional faceless stalker, to make the "assassination attempt" more beleivable
When the PCs enter Alderns townhouse, allow them DC 25 Listen checks. Those who suceed hear, from upstairs a voice say quietly "they're here. Be ready."
On the second floor, they can make another DC 15 listen check to hear the clink of glass bottles and a soft feminine giggle. When they reach the top floor, they see what look like three young humans in affluent clothes lounging about in the empty house. One is relaxing on the couch, drinking from a glass wine bottle. the other two, a young man and woman, are sitting close together on the bed, making out. when they see the PCs, they yell in surprise, and the young woman hides on the other side of the bed. Obviously, they're just a bunch of bored rich kids hanging out in an empty house. They can explain to the PCs that the place has been empty for weeks, and that workmen boarded it up some time ago. The three act very impressed by the PCs, and ask them all sorts of enthusuastic questions about their investigations.
The young woman actually comes up the handsomest-looking Male PC and shyly says her name is Andrea Karlov, and offers to show him around Magnimar, since he's new in town. Allow the PCs Spot checks versus her Sleight of Hand check to notice that She has palmed a long knife from inside her sleve. Those who make the check get to act in the surprise round as she abruptly Sneak Attacks the PC she was talking to, a sweet smile on her face. At this point, the other two stalkers Draw their weapons and Assume their natural forms, Sneak attacking PCs who still have not acted yet.
The young man stands and draws his filigree'd lowgsword, an odd expression crossing is face, as though he was having intestinal trouble. The expression clears into one of sudden releif as, with an abrupt suddenness, his features puff up and bulge out, his arms extend, and all previous evidence of humanity is erased in an instant. (show them the Picture of a faceless stalker). He rotates his shoulders bonelessly and gives a sigh of contentment. "damn, that felt good."
The Stalkers then follow the listed tactics, fleeing once the first one dies.
The encounter went very well last night, and was a good way to finish up the session (with the sawmill and Xanesha saved for the next one). One player said, upon seeing the picture
"wow. they're as flexible and strong as gumby and herculies combined"
to which another PC replied "Gumberculies? I love that guy!" They got nice and pissed off after the fake-out and all the combat feinting, and so when the last surviving Stalker slithered out the window and onto the street below, the wizard ran up to the broken window and Fireballed her spongey ass as she tried to escape.
Very nice way to add some additional depth to the written encounter. I also thought there was something to be added, but considering I using adapt everything anyway...
A very well played example.
Excellent encoutner!
Consider it yoinked. ;)
Damn it, I dont see an edit button anywhere. I didnt think of that...shoot. Maybe a moderator can do it, or am I missing something obvious?
Thanks for the praise, btw. It is like crack to me.
You, the poster only have a finite amount of time to edit your own post, then it's stuck.
He was asking for a moderator to do it for you, probably realizing that at this point you couldn't do it yourself.
No hard feelings, I'm sure it will occur to you next time.
And it was a good idea!
I was curious, Jodah, did the PCs make either of the Listen checks? I assume the DC 25 check is meant to give them a chance to be slightly more suspicious of anyone they encounter on the second floor.
|
You, the poster only have a finite amount of time to edit your own post, then it's stuck.
He was asking for a moderator to do it for you, probably realizing that at this point you couldn't do it yourself.
No hard feelings, I'm sure it will occur to you next time.
And it was a good idea!
yes
yesi concur
by crikey, do i concur?! It is a very good encounter. I think I'm going to go for a slight adaptation.
Pretending to be Aldern will be the default behaviour for the stalkers, but if they have any opportunity to figure out who is entering the house before meeting them, then the FSs will realise the Aldren ruse isn't an option and go for your approach.
So, stolen.
cheers :D
|
|
Yep, they had a druid with max ranks in listen that made both checks, but for some reason, the group didnt really think it was all that suspicious, or pay that much attention. Maybe my group is more passive than others, and just sort of ambles through their encounters sometimes, especialy when it's 10:00 at night.
The point about he stalker's story is that it doesnt make sense, when you think about it. the place is boarded up, there's no broken windows or forced doors, and none of them have a key. The place is a pigstye; hardly the sort of place a bunch of rich kids would want to hang out in any case, and why would stey want to hang out in a place that's been ransacked. they could be accused of doing it, or get mixed up in something. even rich brats arent that stupid. Also, if anyone has scent, massive ranks in sense motive, or some other extraseneory ability, they would notice something odd about the two stalkers making out on the bed. There's no pheromones or hormones in the air, the two dont look very flushed, all sorts of little details.
Their story only needs to make sense for a minute or two, anyway, but this should make the PCs even more suspicious.
|
The point about he stalker's story is that it doesnt make sense, when you think about it. the place is boarded up, there's no broken windows or forced doors, and none of them have a key. The place is a pigstye; hardly the sort of place a bunch of rich kids would want to hang out in any case, and why would stey want to hang out in a place that's been ransacked
It's been boarded up so they can be undisturbed... if they know the lore of the area then they know no one would be extra suspicious about strange lights coming from the house. Sounds like a good place to have an underage drinking party (in the real world I've heard stories of high schoolers breaking into similarly boarded buildings in the woods in high school to drink and smoke)
(in the real world I've heard stories of high schoolers breaking into similarly boarded buildings in the woods in high school to drink and smoke)
Just heard stories, eh? ;^)
How's this for geek cred:
When I was in high school, they were building a new house on the vacant lot next door to my house. My friends and I didn't have to break in, because they never locked it, even when it was 95% done, paint, carpet, windows, doors. Just no locks. We would sneak in and...
Have disc gun battles.
We must have lost hundreds of the little plastic things in there. Some of them probably are still there behind the sheetrock or under the carpet. We always figured the discs would probably come shooting out of the heater vents the first time the new owners turned it on.
At least we didn't bring our paint pistols there. We saved those for the golf courses.
And we didn't start any huge forest fires, which some other kids in the area managed to do. They had dragged a few old mattresses into the woods and let their little camp fire get out of control.
|
At least we didn't bring our paint pistols there. We saved those for the golf courses.
Golf courses are no fun for paintballing. Me and my friends used to play in the three big abandoned buildings at Greystone Psychiatric Hospital. We did it about 12 times until we got caught (of course we told the cop that was our first time =p) and he let us go since their little police force had 3 guys on a busy day and it'd be too much of a pain in the arse to try and round up all 20 of us.
We must have lost hundreds of the little plastic things in there. Some of them probably are still there behind the sheetrock or under the carpet. We always figured the discs would probably come shooting out of the heater vents the first time the new owners turned it on.
My parents were renovating our vacation house in Melbourne (The Floridian one, not the Aussie one) in preparation to sell it and we found an emtpy glass coke bottle that must have been over 25 years old inside the wall.
Curses! If I'd have only seen this before this past Sunday... Nice job on spicing it up.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I just ran this encounter last night and tried a variant of your twist.
Thank you both for the ideas ! I was getting prepaired for this encounter and was totaly disappointed with it (using anniversary edition).
I think ill go with the youth make-out thing as my party is on the paranoid side but loves being flirted, admired etc by the common folk of the world :P .
I was also going to add a chainshirt to the stalkers as I have 3 melee PCs in the party.. but I think ill leave them as is and add a 3rd stalker to assist with flanking and help with action economy.
thanks again for the great ideas !
-edit: I think I will also let the stalkers use their two slam attacks at +7/+7 (1d6+4) instead of the longsword and one slam. I did the same thing with Aldern .. I find it that using a weapon actually reduces the effectiveness of creatures with natural attacks..
What I don't like about how it's written is how little sense it makes. Why would they disguise themselves as someone who has been turned into a ghast and another person who is dead? Surely they know the PCs are aware of these details? Anyway I'm thinking of having them transform into old enemies of the PCs that have gotten away from them, specifically Lyrie Akenja, Orik Vancaskerkin and a home brewed evil ranger named Relgan Snigg. It should really confuse them when the invisible stalkers turn back to normal after they die. Were they always invisible stalkers, or is someone trying to screw with their heads?
Because the Stalkers have no idea the PCs know Aldern was a ghast. And if someone who knew Aldern was visiting, then they'd have a reason to be there.
The whole point of the stalkers is to explain why no one seems to have noticed Aldern's disappearance. (Since he's obviously not making social calls as a ghast.) They're also useful if the party decides "Hey, we haven't seen Foxglove in awhile. Didn't he say he's from Maginimar? We should go check on him." prior to figuring out he's the Skinsaw Man and visiting the Misgivings.
That said, as a satisfying encounter after the party has dealt with Aldern, having them disguise themselves as someone innocuous is a good idea.
(also at Tangent101)I don't think these reasons are correct. For one its clearly stated that the house has been taken over by the Skinsaw cult and was boarded up--so why would anyone in town assume that Aldern is living there? Also it's stated clearly that the only reason the stalkers are there is because of Ironbriar. He specifically ordered them to take the shapes of people who could not possibly be there; and the reason he set up the ambush in the first is because he knew that the PC's next logical stop after Aldern would be the town house. So yes, the information concerning the fates of Aldern and Iesha were available to the stalkers through Ironbriar, who didn't seem to think that having them take on these shapes would be a dead give-a-way to a trap. This is extremely poor decision making skills on the part of Ironbriar. I'm going to make him a little more intelligent than that.
Backfromthedeadguy, the Skinsaw cult is aware of the doings of the Sandpoint heroes (as written) because it's assumed that celebrations happen in Sandpoint and word gets around. Some time is assumed to have passed between Aldern's final rest and the start of this module.
So, Xanesha sends the faceless stalkers to watch over the house to see if the heroes happen to show up. The choice of disguise isn't made to literally fool the PCs. It's made to unbalance them. Random strangers in a boarded-up house would at best come off as squatters. Aldern and his wife throw the party for a loop.
"What the heck is going ON here? Have we made a mistake somehow?!?"
That's exactly what happened with my group. They were immediately on guard but they were confused. It didn't take more than a couple rounds to figure things out - it isn't meant to - but the faceless stalkers used that time to get in and amongst the party, for positioning.
Remember that a good part of this game is about "the rule of cool." If it's cool, you've got to do it. Having Aldern return - if in appearance only - one more time is cool. Having the faceless stalkers appear as anyone random is Just Another Encounter.
Finally, having the faceless stalkers mimic the Foxgloves sends a pretty confusing message to the PCs. Do their enemies in Magnamar know they're coming or not? Such a strange greeting. Again, this is done to imbalance the party and make them unsure of their situation.
Backfromthedeadguy, the Skinsaw cult is aware of the doings of the Sandpoint heroes (as written) because it's assumed that celebrations happen in Sandpoint and word gets around. Some time is assumed to have passed between Aldern's final rest and the start of this module.
So, Xanesha sends the faceless stalkers to watch over the house to see if the heroes happen to show up. The choice of disguise isn't made to literally fool the PCs. It's made to unbalance them. Random strangers in a boarded-up house would at best come off as squatters. Aldern and his wife throw the party for a loop.
"What the heck is going ON here? Have we made a mistake somehow?!?"
That's exactly what happened with my group. They were immediately on guard but they were confused. It didn't take more than a couple rounds to figure things out - it isn't meant to - but the faceless stalkers used that time to get in and amongst the party, for positioning.
Remember that a good part of this game is about "the rule of cool." If it's cool, you've got to do it. Having Aldern return - if in appearance only - one more time is cool. Having the faceless stalkers appear as anyone random is Just Another Encounter.
Finally, having the faceless stalkers mimic the Foxgloves sends a pretty confusing message to the PCs. Do their enemies in Magnamar know they're coming or not? Such a strange greeting. Again, this is done to imbalance the party and make them unsure of their situation.
As written Xanesha did not send the stalkers to watch over the house. It says specifically that Ironbriar borrowed the stalkers to ambush the PCs. So if the aim was to "ambush" the PCs it just seems pretty stupid to send up an obvious red flag. Don't get me wrong, if you want to spin it a certain way in your game (which I will be doing) that's great, but I'm talking about as it's written in the module.
While that may be true, it doesn't change anything I said about justification and purpose, does it? Especially considering where Ironbriar gets his orders from.
And yet Aldern was Ironbriar's idea. Charm Person and Charm Monster doesn't change who you are. It didn't turn Ironbriar into a murderer or encourage him to do horrific acts. So his decision to use the Stalkers in that situation? It was totally him. And there was another reason for this of course: to distract people who show up.
After all, Aldern's there! As is his wife! If you'd not fought him at the Manor, wouldn't you just accept the story of the Stalkers? I mean, if one of my PCs hadn't been immediately ready to kill Aldern ('face-stealer!') then I'd have had "Aldern" and his two men-at-arms admit tearfully that his wife had killed herself in "that house" and that he'd fled rather than admit by living there with her... he in essence killed her.
And if it was anyone else, say someone who knows of Aldern or the like? All the Stalkers have to do is say "we'd been away on business. We just got back a day ago."
And yet Aldern was Ironbriar's idea. Charm Person and Charm Monster doesn't change who you are. It didn't turn Ironbriar into a murderer or encourage him to do horrific acts. So his decision to use the Stalkers in that situation? It was totally him. And there was another reason for this of course: to distract people who show up.
After all, Aldern's there! As is his wife! If you'd not fought him at the Manor, wouldn't you just accept the story of the Stalkers? I mean, if one of my PCs hadn't been immediately ready to kill Aldern ('face-stealer!') then I'd have had "Aldern" and his two men-at-arms admit tearfully that his wife had killed herself in "that house" and that he'd fled rather than admit by living there with her... he in essence killed her.
And if it was anyone else, say someone who knows of Aldern or the like? All the Stalkers have to do is say "we'd been away on business. We just got back a day ago."
Your scenario doesn't work because the only way for the PCs to even know about the town house is from the letter written by Xanesha, and that would mean that Aldern is dead. Another problem is that if the stalkers were there to fool others, why is the place boarded up? So once again the ONLY reason for the stalkers to be there is to ambush the PCs. Let's chalk it up to a poorly thought out scenario and just fix it in house.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It actually played really well in my table!^^
I actually believe your ideas are great and I understand why you changed things but I just have to add that in my table the players were totally confused when they saw Aldern in the abandoned house. I roleplayed some guards around the area to be suspicious (just looking for the murderers actually) and my players thought that those guards were involved and they were keeping the house safe from intruders( I never understood why they would believe such a thing actually!). Anyway for half an hour we got a great session, totally confusing for them..I even made aldern's wife ask one of them to dance while she was cooking a meal and Aldern was playing the piano!
In conclusion, I just want to add that for new players who dont know each and every spell out there, this encounter, as it is(almost), may unfold in creepy and strange ways!:D
So Aldern mentions that he has a place when he first meets the PCs but that doesn't change the fact that until they kill Aldern and find clues at the manor they had no reason to go. But let's say that they decide to go visit Aldern on a whim without any catalyst for the action: All they would find is an empty house. Aldern won't be there and Ironbriar would have zero reason at this point to station two stalkers on a wild hunch that maybe the PCs might show up one day for tea. Remember that Ironbriar is going on the assumption that if the PCs show up it is because they killed Aldern and found clues that led them to the town house. Also remember that the Skinsaw cult boarded the house up so saying that the stalkers have been living there for any real length of time to supposedly fool local authorities isn't feasible. A question that isn't really answered is how does Ironbriar even know that Aldern is dead? At what point does Ironbriar think, "Oh, they just killed Aldern and found clues so I better get ready for them"? If the plan was to fool everyone then it's not a very good plan. If they had been smart the two stalkers would have immediately taken the form of Aldern and Iesha from day 1 and simply lived their lives like two 5th columnist ready to strike when the time comes. The way it's written it's simply a plot hole that needs filling.
No, Ironbriar planted the Stalkers there after they cleared out all evidence (that they knew of) linking Aldern to the Cult. The Stalkers are meant to distract anyone who came afterward looking for Aldern. Rather than a boarded-up house, they find two people who recently returned home.
In addition, depending on how the GM played up the Skinsaw Man, they might not realize the ghast was Aldern. If Channel Energy was used on the Haunts, then the Aldern-specific haunts might not have been seen.
You're busy poking holes into the Stalkers. The truth is, however, that this is an encounter meant to allow a good GM to build the tension. I mean, think about it:
So feel free to claim "it's stupid!" but there are logical reasons for this, and one very important aspect is atmosphere. A GM could easily just play this up as Yet Another Monster. But given the theme of Book 2? It could also be played up as horror. As it should.
No, Ironbriar planted the Stalkers there after they cleared out all evidence (that they knew of) linking Aldern to the Cult. The Stalkers are meant to distract anyone who came afterward looking for Aldern. Rather than a boarded-up house, they find two people who recently returned home.
In addition, depending on how the GM played up the Skinsaw Man, they might not realize the ghast was Aldern. If Channel Energy was used on the Haunts, then the Aldern-specific haunts might not have been seen.
You're busy poking holes into the Stalkers. The truth is, however, that this is an encounter meant to allow a good GM to build the tension. I mean, think about it: ** spoiler omitted **
So feel free to claim "it's stupid!" but there are logical reasons for this, and one very important aspect is atmosphere. A GM could easily just play this up as Yet Another Monster. But given the theme of Book 2? It could also be played up as horror. As it should.
This is what the book says:
"Justice Ironbriar is no fool. He suspectsthat after the PCs finished with Aldern, they’d follow
up on any clues they found at the manor by visiting this
building. As a result, he’s prepared an ambush using two
faceless stalkers, swamp-dwelling aberrations capable
of assuming humanoid form. Ironbriar ordered the two
creatures, on “loan” from his new mistress Xanesha,
to take the shapes of Aldern and Iesha Foxglove, and to
await the PCs’ arrival here. Both bide their time on the
ground f loor, but once they realize their “home” has
visitors, they call out to the PCs and track them down,
apparently eager to treat their guests to a home-cooked
meal in the kitchen. Of course, this is a ruse; the faceless
stalkers are merely trying to size up the PCs. Once they’re
ready, the monsters assume their true forms and attack."
Seems pretty clear to me what was intended and what Ironbriar was trying to accomplish.
Ah. Been a little bit since I read that.
The problem is that this text makes assumptions. It assumes that Ironbriar knows Aldern is dead.
How?
He has no one in the house. We have no evidence of any spies in Sandpoint who'd send a Message spell or the like to him. So what mystical method does he know Aldern is dead?
The module is a guideline. Develop it as you wish. I developed it so that Ironbriar was prepared for any contingency.
And ultimately, what I said in the Spoiler remains true. This is just another horrific aspect being played up - ghouls, the Skinsaw Man... and now Pod People. A good GM would have fun ratcheting up how disturbing this is.
Ah. Been a little bit since I read that.
The problem is that this text makes assumptions. It assumes that Ironbriar knows Aldern is dead.
How?
He has no one in the house. We have no evidence of any spies in Sandpoint who'd send a Message spell or the like to him. So what mystical method does he know Aldern is dead?
The module is a guideline. Develop it as you wish. I developed it so that Ironbriar was prepared for any contingency.
And ultimately, what I said in the Spoiler remains true. This is just another horrific aspect being played up - ghouls, the Skinsaw Man... and now Pod People. A good GM would have fun ratcheting up how disturbing this is.
This is what I've been saying the whole time--that you have to fill in this plot hole on your own, because as written in the book, it doesn't make sense. I actually played it out earlier today. Due to a happy accident on my part and that of a player it got pretty interesting.
Yeeeees... and this is a problem why?
The AP is only ever meant to be a guideline that you adjust to suit your players. If you have five or six players, you're expected to increase the number of foes and the like. If you only have two, then reduce it.
You may very well find some element you dislike or want to do something different. Perhaps you want Aldern to survive alive... and thus have his mentioned-but-not-seen sister having gone insane and corrupted into undeath and the PCs find Aldern chained to the wall under the manor, being fed raw rotting flesh and fungus in an effort to transform him as well. Or maybe you chose to switch Lucrecia and Xanesha to have the more lethal foe show up later.
I've long modified the game. And it's better for it.
Yeeeees... and this is a problem why?
The AP is only ever meant to be a guideline that you adjust to suit your players. If you have five or six players, you're expected to increase the number of foes and the like. If you only have two, then reduce it.
You may very well find some element you dislike or want to do something different. Perhaps you want Aldern to survive alive... and thus have his mentioned-but-not-seen sister having gone insane and corrupted into undeath and the PCs find Aldern chained to the wall under the manor, being fed raw rotting flesh and fungus in an effort to transform him as well. Or maybe you chose to switch Lucrecia and Xanesha to have the more lethal foe show up later.
I've long modified the game. And it's better for it.
Are you not reading my posts? I've said countless times that "changing it" is what I did. But I don't appreciate sloppy writing and being that this is a "forum" I'm going to exorcise my right to point it out and discuss how to fix it. So please stop trying to "prove me wrong" because I'm clearly not. Now if you want to discuss what you did in your game then great. Otherwise case closed (at least as far as I'm concerned).
This is what I've been saying the whole time--that you have to fill in this plot hole on your own, because as written in the book, it doesn't make sense. I actually played it out earlier today. Due to a happy accident on my part and that of a player it got pretty interesting.
Strangely Nick Logue took care of this for you.
Anniversary edition, page 109. "And just as fast as news of the Sandpoint murders travels to Magnimar, so too does news of heroes standing against and defeating Foxglove. By the time the PCs come to Magnimar and begin their investigations there, Ironbriar is ready for them."
Done.
Oh, but how? Simple. If the DM has done his job right, the PCs have an attachment to Sandpoint. It is the most natural inclination to return from Foxglove Manor to report to the sheriff and mayor what has been found. That stands a very high chance of resulting in public celebrations. These are the Sandpoint Heroes, right? And even if there aren't, those in charge are going to make sure the populace knows the murders are over with. From there you're one traveling NPC bard away from news making it to Magnimar.
In Magnimar, we've got Lord Ironbriar with limited resources; he's got his men (who evidently spend the days actually working), and he's got two faceless stalkers. Those get assigned to the townhouse and their choice of guises works just fine for what it is; distraction.
That encounter is CR6, with the PCs expected to be at 6th. It's not meant to be a hardship for fresh, rested PCs.
I remain unable to see a problem with this encounter or any of the logic behind it.
This is what I've been saying the whole time--that you have to fill in this plot hole on your own, because as written in the book, it doesn't make sense. I actually played it out earlier today. Due to a happy accident on my part and that of a player it got pretty interesting.Strangely Nick Logue took care of this for you.
Anniversary edition, page 109. "And just as fast as news of the Sandpoint murders travels to Magnimar, so too does news of heroes standing against and defeating Foxglove. By the time the PCs come to Magnimar and begin their investigations there, Ironbriar is ready for them."
Done.
Oh, but how? Simple. If the DM has done his job right, the PCs have an attachment to Sandpoint. It is the most natural inclination to return from Foxglove Manor to report to the sheriff and mayor what has been found. That stands a very high chance of resulting in public celebrations. These are the Sandpoint Heroes, right? And even if there aren't, those in charge are going to make sure the populace knows the murders are over with. From there you're one traveling NPC bard away from news making it to Magnimar.
In Magnimar, we've got Lord Ironbriar with limited resources; he's got his men (who evidently spend the days actually working), and he's got two faceless stalkers. Those get assigned to the townhouse and their choice of guises works just fine for what it is; distraction.
That encounter is CR6, with the PCs expected to be at 6th. It's not meant to be a hardship for fresh, rested PCs.
I remain unable to see a problem with this encounter or any of the logic behind it.
Sorry, but this so-called solution relies on the characters being railroaded. First off what's to stop the characters from going straight to Magnimar after Foxglove Manor? Or what if they go out of their way to be secretive about their movements to avoid such a scenario as you describe? Or even if they do go back and for some reason there's an ewoke like celebration in the streets, how would Ironbriar know that the PCs found some obscure clue at the manor that would automatically lead them to the townhouse in Magnimar? And if Ironbriar could truly predict the exact movements the PCs make based on such flimsy speculation, why not strike at the PCs before they ever reach Magimar? After all the PCs have revealed themselves to be a major threat; so thinking that some poorly thought out ambush is the solution is ridiculous. But, hey, you don't need to be logical to have fun, so more power to ya.
Does it honestly matter? Please, how many APs would be ended if the Big Bad decided at some point to just do an all-out overkill assault to kill the PCs before they're powerful enough to stop the Big Bad? These chaps aren't walking around with the Evil Overlord's Guide after all.
Though that might make for an interesting AP - the PCs are attacked at some point by overwhelming force with every method of escape denied them, killed, disintegrated, their dust blown across the wind... and an enemy of the Big Bad was watching and used True Resurrection to bring them back.
Could even be a means of depowering the PCs by eliminating all their magic items and the like.
And I bet the players would absolutely hate it and feel it was railroady and that it was completely unfair. But hey, realism.
Does it honestly matter? Please, how many APs would be ended if the Big Bad decided at some point to just do an all-out overkill assault to kill the PCs before they're powerful enough to stop the Big Bad? These chaps aren't walking around with the Evil Overlord's Guide after all.
Though that might make for an interesting AP - the PCs are attacked at some point by overwhelming force with every method of escape denied them, killed, disintegrated, their dust blown across the wind... and an enemy of the Big Bad was watching and used True Resurrection to bring them back.
Could even be a means of depowering the PCs by eliminating all their magic items and the like.
And I bet the players would absolutely hate it and feel it was railroady and that it was completely unfair. But hey, realism.
It truly amazes me how some people waste so much energy trying to defend something that obviously doesn't need or deserve defending. I come to forums for solutions to problems not excuses or devil advocacy. Anyway, I've already fixed it to my satisfaction.
P.S. RotRL is an excellent product overall (I'm about to run my 19th session) but that doesn't mean it's perfect. If it were then there would be little need of discussion.
Um... the 19th game of the first run-through? Or you've run it all the way through 18 times already and this is campaign #19? oO
Because I barely could handle running Night Below twice (the third time was starting to bore me even with my plans to massively deviate from it once more). I'm not sure I could handle running Runelords more than twice! ^^;;
Um... the 19th game of the first run-through? Or you've run it all the way through 18 times already and this is campaign #19? oO
Because I barely could handle running Night Below twice (the third time was starting to bore me even with my plans to massively deviate from it once more). I'm not sure I could handle running Runelords more than twice! ^^;;
I'm 19 sessions into RotRL (1st time). The group just agreed to Ironbriar's deal of a "12 hour head start" in exchange for spilling the beans on Xanesha (there was a big debate about doing this). The next session should be the finale of Skinsaw Murders (unless they get sidetracked of course).
My party agreed to the deal as well. What they did not tell Ironbriar was that the town guard were in the next room over, listening to him confess everything to them, and thus the guard were not a part of the deal. Fortunately, his being at single hit points meant that after he hit the guards with Channel Negative Energy, the head of the guard could take him out (and then the cleric did Channel Positive Energy to keep the guards alive).
Mind you, it was the NG cleric who has a Paladin cohort who did the negotiating, not the CN ranger/wizard or any of the other non-lawful types. ;)
My party agreed to the deal as well. What they did not tell Ironbriar was that the town guard were in the next room over, listening to him confess everything to them, and thus the guard were not a part of the deal. Fortunately, his being at single hit points meant that after he hit the guards with Channel Negative Energy, the head of the guard could take him out (and then the cleric did Channel Positive Energy to keep the guards alive).
Mind you, it was the NG cleric who has a Paladin cohort who did the negotiating, not the CN ranger/wizard or any of the other non-lawful types. ;)
One of my players is an elven cleric of Abadar (this character actually knew Ironbriar) so he wanted to do everything by the book and turn Ironbrair in. The elven wizard wanted to accept the deal to expedite them confronting Xanesha. The half orc ranger and human druid were caught in the middle of this back and forth. Finally it was decided that Ironbriar had to sign a full confession to his deeds (not to be handed to the authorities until after the 12 hours) and a formal resignation letter as a justice. They then escorted Ironbrair to the outskirts of the city and let him go. The half orc ranger has indicated that he is planning on tracking him and taking him out but I've tried to emphasize a time crunch to better focus them on the task at hand. We'll see what happens.
Sorry, but this so-called solution relies on the characters being railroaded. First off what's to stop the characters from going straight to Magnimar after Foxglove Manor?
Psychology. Other that that, nothing. Of course, what's to stop the PCs from ignoring Magnimar entirely and pursuing the goblin Lamashtu cultist issue that's much closer to home? Or what's to stop them from ignoring Aldern's letter and focusing on why the heck there's evidently a temple to Alaznist under Sandpoint? Or what's to stop them from doing any of a dozen other random things? Right. Psychology.
Or what if they go out of their way to be secretive about their movements to avoid such a scenario as you describe?
When - and if - players deviate from the expected behaviour that a module or adventure path is designed for, that's when you earn your keep as a DM and adapt. No particular need to assert that an encounter is broken as written when it's part of a whole.
Or even if they do go back and for some reason there's an ewoke like celebration in the streets, how would Ironbriar know that the PCs found some obscure clue at the manor that would automatically lead them to the townhouse in Magnimar?
The circumstances of the PCs' rescue of Aldern in the first book are public. Aldern's return and the hog-hunting expedition were also public. It's a known that the PCs have been on friendly terms with Aldern before his transformation. He'd be silly to expect that they won't have any conversation of interrogation afterward.
Not good enough? How about that as a high-ranking member of the Brothers of Seven, he knows darned well what the terms of the deed on Foxglove manor say, and that the terms are unusual to say the least. He'd be silly to expect that there are no additional records regarding the recent investment in repairs. It's inevitable that there's a trail leading to Magnimar, and once there, finding another Foxglove-owned property is trivial.
And if Ironbriar could truly predict the exact movements the PCs make based on such flimsy speculation, why not strike at the PCs before they ever reach Magimar?
Exact? Flimsy? Friend, you're reading this very, very differently from the way I am. Ironbriar's read of the situation seems very obvious to me, and in fact follows both RotRL campaigns I've been involved with. One as a player and one as a DM.
As for why not strike the PCs, two reasons... resources and effort. He obviously doesn't have the manpower to do more than he does. He's got his skinsaw men who have day jobs (as mentioned and ignored from my last post) and two borrowed faceless stalkers. That's it. That's what he's got. Not much to send out to conduct a roadside raid. Worse, what's the point in ambushing the PCs on the road instead of in Foxglove manor?
After all the PCs have revealed themselves to be a major threat; so thinking that some poorly thought out ambush is the solution is ridiculous.
Put the labels on it that you will. The PCs have proven themselves able to put to permanent death one deranged pseudo-ghast. Ironbriar doesn't have the gauge of their capabilities, really. Maybe dropping a couple mooks somewhere to see about killing one or two... maybe that might deal with the problem, buy information, or at least slow them down. Interesting thought.
But, hey, you don't need to be logical to have fun, so more power to ya.
No need to be personally insulting to post on these forums either.
Anyways.... it went awsome for my group !! Thanks again for the youths and beggar ideas !!
.. I chose the youth-make out party and my PCs fell right into the trap. It went even worse for them than I expected.
The only real-world female player was away for that session, so there was none to object when the young female aristocrat youth started complementing the magus for his looks and exotic katana :)
My PCs, being always on the paranoid side, stayed out of the room (living room place with the lion fireplace) while questioning the three youths, but they were quickly convinced that they were just some random young nobles having fun.. I am pretty sure they werent 100% sure that it was nothing (metagaming kicks in, people always think that if the gm spend time on this, it must mean something :p).
Even so, the wizard and talker of the party, which is probably the most paranoid of all, gave me the biggest surprise. Having being convinced and wanting to once-more appear 'awsome and powerfull' he ordered the youths to get out of the house fast and never tell anyone about them or they will tell their noble parents.
Since my PCs have positioned themselves on a single file line, with a square in between them each... the ambush went perfectly well.. while the youths were going out of the living room and past the PCs...
... the female youth commented on the magus' katana and moved closer to have a look.. and everyone rolled initiative... and the stalkers had a surprise round -and- the initiative -and- a square between each PC to move into and practically flank everyone :p
..the magus went down before the PCs had to act, yet he stabilised at -4 or smth, fun times !
Sorry, but this so-called solution relies on the characters being railroaded. First off what's to stop the characters from going straight to Magnimar after Foxglove Manor?Psychology. Other that that, nothing. Of course, what's to stop the PCs from ignoring Magnimar entirely and pursuing the goblin Lamashtu cultist issue that's much closer to home? Or what's to stop them from ignoring Aldern's letter and focusing on why the heck there's evidently a temple to Alaznist under Sandpoint? Or what's to stop them from doing any of a dozen other random things? Right. Psychology.
Or what if they go out of their way to be secretive about their movements to avoid such a scenario as you describe?When - and if - players deviate from the expected behaviour that a module or adventure path is designed for, that's when you earn your keep as a DM and adapt. No particular need to assert that an encounter is broken as written when it's part of a whole.
Or even if they do go back and for some reason there's an ewoke like celebration in the streets, how would Ironbriar know that the PCs found some obscure clue at the manor that would automatically lead them to the townhouse in Magnimar?The circumstances of the PCs' rescue of Aldern in the first book are public. Aldern's return and the hog-hunting expedition were also public. It's a known that the PCs have been on friendly terms with Aldern before his transformation. He'd be silly to expect that they won't have any conversation of interrogation afterward.
Not good enough? How about that as a high-ranking member of the Brothers of Seven, he knows darned well what the terms of the deed on Foxglove manor say, and that the terms are unusual to say the least. He'd be silly to expect that there are no additional records regarding the recent investment in repairs. It's inevitable that there's a trail leading to Magnimar, and once there, finding another Foxglove-owned property is
...
Sorry, but the only thing I'm seeing is spin doctoring. And I'm already past this point and fixed it how I wanted, so I don't need any more convincing. Thanks though.