Chronicles subscription will include what?


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Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

To me it looks like greed. The items cards in the subscription is just a means to taking away the free PDFs. Since they've set the president of free PDFs, they're looking for a way to recoup that money from people that would buy them even if they weren't free. So they've thrown in overpriced cards. Yes they're overpriced, look how much your average CCG starter pack costs.

If it wasn't greed they'd have created a Pathfinder Accessories subscription or a Chronicles subscription without the cards.

Liberty's Edge

I don't see this as "greed". They just want to keep it simple. Too many options - too many headaches to deal with.

I have thought about this a lot. If Paizo would prefer that folks like me (who don't want item cards) simply don't subscribe to begin with - I will accept that and cancel my subscription before it ever starts. I am not going to play games with starting and stopping a subscription. That is a pain for both parties.

I will continue to hope for a different option to appear before February. But at the same time, I respect Paizo's current decision.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

We're not trying to be "greedy," Sir Urza, we are trying to provide a complete subscription. Clearly, some customers would like a way to opt out of some of the subscription products, and we're looking into whether or not that's feasible. For the time being, that's not an option we can entertain, for reasons I've already explained.

None of those reasons have anything to do with "greed," though, so while I respect your opinion and thank you for sharing it, you're off base in this case.

I tried to compare a $9.99 deck of item cards to the price of a starter deck of Magic cards, but the damn WotC site doesn't have that basic information anywhere on it, near as I can tell. We feel like ten bucks is a fair price for what you get, and it's based in our cost to produce the cards in the first place.


M:tG starter decks generally go for $7.99, but they also print about a billion more cards than we do and can get their prices lower because of it. $9.99 for a deck of Item Cards is not "greedy" -- its a good price decided upon just like everything else: our priced is based on the printer's price and we use a fair margin of profit. (And, no, I can't and won't give details on that.)


Ac:12
Prone +4
HP: -9

Dark Archive Contributor

Dead Horse wrote:

Ac:12

Prone +4
HP: -9

*rolls a 1 on attack roll*

Dammit!

Liberty's Edge

Erik Mona wrote:

We're not trying to be "greedy," Sir Urza, we are trying to provide a complete subscription. Clearly, some customers would like a way to opt out of some of the subscription products, and we're looking into whether or not that's feasible. For the time being, that's not an option we can entertain, for reasons I've already explained.

None of those reasons have anything to do with "greed," though, so while I respect your opinion and thank you for sharing it, you're off base in this case.

I tried to compare a $9.99 deck of item cards to the price of a starter deck of Magic cards, but the damn WotC site doesn't have that basic information anywhere on it, near as I can tell. We feel like ten bucks is a fair price for what you get, and it's based in our cost to produce the cards in the first place.

I guess the thing that bothers me is that those saying the item cards MUST be included keep making a straw man argument about 'opting out of everything'.

Who wants to opt out of the map folios? I haven't seen a single person ask for a subscription with everything except that. Who wants to opt out of the hardbacks but not the paperbacks? Not one single person.

I think we have a group of reasonable people who see the item cards for what they are - an accessory. It doesn't come with a free PDF so there is no 'bonus' for subscribers on this product. They want all the maps and things of Golarion - they want the campaign setting material. This is not campaign setting. The items are detailed in a book (presumably). The card just has a picture of the item and you can use it as a handout, if you're into that kind of thing.

Now, these reasonable people are being attacked by other posters for not being committed enough to Paizo? This makes no sense to me.

I want the item cards. I included them in my subscription. But I'm the kind of person that, even though I want the cards, can understand why they don't fit the rest of the subscription. I don't want to 'force' anything on these other Paizo customers. The more subscribers the better. It means that Paizo will feel more comfortable producing more product, which means more things I can subscribe to. Yeah me.

So, since there is no benefit to the item cards in the subscription, I think they should be dropped. I think it would be great if they sent e-mail reminders for all the other Golarion themed products that aren't included in the subscription each month (like T-Shirts).

Let's face it - there is not an equal argument about removing any other aspect of the subscription. The cards are clearly much different from the other products. Whether we call them an accessory or not, they work differently and they describe the world differently.

I fully admit to being spoiled by Paizo's customer service. And that's why I'm disappointed. Even though it is a little more effort for every customer to add the cards to their standing order, it makes sure nobody gets stuck with something they don't want. More happy Paizo customers is good for Paizo, good for the customers, and good for me.

I know they've announced that they'll stand by this decision for the time being. As someone who wants the cards and has chosen to include them, I think I can claim to be looking at the situation from both sides. And while I want the cards and appreciate the convenience of getting them 'automatically', I know it wouldn't take much more effort to get them another way. I tell you this - my local FLGS would be happy if I'd buy them there. Most of my money is going directly to Paizo now, so any Paizo items I can buy without the subscription is good for his livelihood. And this is a perfect example of an item that can benefit from that manner of distribution.


DeadDMWalking,

Thanks dude. I'm avoiding posting here because the decision was revisited and that's it. But you have put the whole matter down quite lucidly and I just want to voice my agreement.


It's $20.00. Christ.

You end up saving much more then that on shipping alone in the subscription if you have your things mailed packaged together.


DeadDMWalking wrote:
Now, these reasonable people are being attacked by other posters for not being committed enough to Paizo? This makes no sense to me.

Like Kruelaid said to me.. I don't see who is being attacked. I did read one 'allegedly reasonable' person imply he was going to use an undescribed alternative to getting the PDFs if the decision wasn't reversed. (shrug)

And like Kruelaid said, I was going to stay out of it... but...

You guys don't really like to touch the whole 'subscribing is optional, so you don't have to do it' thing. Principles are admirable, but they require maintenance.

And there is a definite sense of entitlement here.

(For the record: I am like you in the respect that I didn't have any Item Cards until Runelords came out. I too am trying them out for my game.)

Scarab Sages

For the record:

In my previous post, I was far from saying anyone was not commited enough to Paizo. (And sorry if you took it that way and saw that as a personal attack. I'm sure many people are dedicated to Paizo and don't subscribe, either because they buy at their local stores, order only what they want/need, or can't afford the higher price since Dragon/Dungeon.)

I was merely saying that, the same commitment need to be offered to everyone, so the bonus is the same for everyone. And that was why I didn't like "skip" options and even less cancel-resubscibe proposition.

Now, I also said I'm not the greatest fan of item cards, since I still have to test them in my game and see my player's answer to them. But Paizo has the right to decide if they should include them or not in the sub, and I will be a subsciber one way or the other.

The "all-inclusive" term can surely be defined many ways. People expressed their fear to get t-shirts, mugs and bumper stickers as part of the sub, and I fully agree with them to leave those things out. They are not things that you can use to enhance world knowledge, DM preparation, or the game itself. Cards directly related to Adventure Paths set in Golarion can surely be used at the game table to enhance the experience of the world. But it's obviously not for everybody, just like every other product in the line.

About people not talking about wanting to skip other products beside cards: Maybe it's because it's not the "hot" subject right now. But I think you can easily find many good reasons someone could not want each of the products so far included in the Chronicles sub. Once one thing can be left out, why not another?


Djoc wrote:

For the record:

In my previous post, I was far from saying anyone was not commited enough to Paizo. (And sorry if you took it that way and saw that as a personal attack. I'm sure many people are dedicated to Paizo and don't subscribe, either because they buy at their local stores, order only what they want/need, or can't afford the higher price since Dragon/Dungeon.)

I was merely saying that, the same commitment need to be offered to everyone, so the bonus is the same for everyone. And that was why I didn't like "skip" options and even less cancel-resubscibe proposition.

Now, I also said I'm not the greatest fan of item cards, since I still have to test them in my game and see my player's answer to them. But Paizo has the right to decide if they should include them or not in the sub, and I will be a subsciber one way or the other.

The "all-inclusive" term can surely be defined many ways. People expressed their fear to get t-shirts, mugs and bumper stickers as part of the sub, and I fully agree with them to leave those things out. They are not things that you can use to enhance world knowledge, DM preparation, or the game itself. Cards directly related to Adventure Paths set in Golarion can surely be used at the game table to enhance the experience of the world. But it's obviously not for everybody, just like every other product in the line.

About people not talking about wanting to skip other products beside cards: Maybe it's because it's not the "hot" subject right now. But I think you can easily find many good reasons someone could not want each of the products so far included in the Chronicles sub. Once one thing can be left out, why not another?

Again, Djoc says this very well.

There is a need to be consistant with rewards and incentives. And we need to be very clear that the PDF constitutes a reward and/or incentive. If someone else is allowed to opt out of part of the subscription, my incentive should be accordingly higher. The problem is then it just becomes a confusing mess. It's best to have one plan for everybody. Even if it means the 'no-card' plan for everybody. And yeah, I'll back that up if I've I'm asked to...

Likewise Djoc is also correct that once you open the door to opting something out, anybody can and will find a reason they need to opt out of something. The Guide to Darkmoon Vale is a great example, because it's a nice compliment to so much of the GameMastery Modules, and less so the Varisian based Pathfinder stuff. Am I asking to opt of it? No. I'm accepting the terms as presented.

On a side note: it's interesting that both Djoc and I are new to the Item Cards, considering the position we've taken. I've never used them before. I don't know how they'll work out, neither does he. We're giving it a shot. That is NOT to say that anybody else has to as well. But we're not the "people who like cards" with the minimizing that comes with that label. We're taking a stance on a principle too, and trying the product out at the same time.

Sovereign Court

Zohar wrote:

It's $20.00. Christ.

You end up saving much more then that on shipping alone in the subscription if you have your things mailed packaged together.

Not I.

If I have too much stuff mailed together I get it opened by customs (why, I know not) and am charged a lot for that - so for anyone in Britain it is cheaper to not combine subscriptions.

And just because you can afford to be blase about $20, does not mean that I can.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Zohar wrote:
It's $20.00. Christ.You end up saving much more then that on shipping alone in the subscription if you have your things mailed packaged together.

Actually it's not $20.. it's more like $30 or $40. Why? If I wasn't ordering them from Paizo I'd be ordering them from Amazon for 30% off and free shipping. If I wasn't ordering them from Amazon, I'd be ordering them via Diamond from my local comic store at cost instead of retail price.

Paizo isn't the only option for Pathfinder Zohar, the PDFs for many are just much more attractive then saving money from going to Paizo's "retail" competitors. When you throw in the item cards, something people don't want, you're now paying even more money and the PDFs are no longer free or a better bargain.


SirUrza wrote:
When you throw in the item cards, something people don't want, you're now paying even more money and the PDFs are no longer free or a better bargain.

I'm not following your logic, SirUrza. How are the free PDFs now not free because two items a year in the line don't come with free PDFs?


Joshua J. Frost wrote:


I'm not following your logic, SirUrza. How are the free PDFs now not free because two items a year in the line don't come with free PDFs?

Joshua,

I believe Uzra is saying the PDF's are not really free (for him) because he has to purchase two sets of item cards that he doesn't want.

The PDF's of the cards are a seperate issue, and it isn't as hot (at the moment) as having to get the cards at all.

Silver Crusade

I for one subscribed starting with the cards, at first I was like ehhhhh don't really need them, but in the end I did, as I wanted to see the artwork on them (other then the blog entries of course). I for one, am in the ehhh I can live without them for gaming, call me old school I guess.

Will they see use in my games, maybe, maybe not, I guess depends on what comes up. I hope they show various symbols or item related to Golarian, like the dogslicer for example, as those are what I'd use them for, not to hand out a spear to a player.

As far as being part of the subscription, hmmm depends on how you interpret the subscription. I can see how Kruelaid & others interpret the subsc, but also Erik & Paizo view of it as well. I can see how the Harrow Deck will be a bit more for the subscription as that is something that is in use in Golarian & really can't be duplicated by something like item cards. (kinda like the Ravenloft Tarokka deck).

As I posted in anther thread about multiple Paizo sales (the double Pf for example) per month effecting my bank account & its effect on my other spending (normal life stuff, fun stuff, etc), I for one wanted to subscribe to PC. As I don't have a local game store & the subscr. offer me the items without having to go each month & order. I don't like preorder, never have & probably never will, so the sub options are great for me.

Hopefully everything in the end will please most & hopefully Paizo looks into this more & more in regards to other options as well.

RM

Liberty's Edge

I fully agree that the best option for everyone is to offer a subscription with the same features offered for every subscriber. After evaluating what is offered for the subscription, I've come to the following conclusion.

The items cards don't belong in the subscription.

Obviously the item cards ARE included in the subscription, but that is irrelevant to my point.

As much as I respect the Paizo staff, I fundamentally disagree with their explanation of the benefits to subscription. While 'not worrying about missing anything' could be considered a 'benefit', we're agreeing to pay full retail price, +shipping and handling with our subscription. Even while I appreciate the 'convenience', that isn't the benefit that has me signing up for the Pathfinder Chronicles subscription.

The only real benefit to me for subscribing is the free PDF.

For the benefit I am willing to pay more than I normally would since most retailers offer discounts, at least periodically. Now, while I don't read the PDFs, I like to have them for reference. If I need to look up something for my game and the books aren't available, it can be quite convenient. It certainly isn't worth the price of paying the full PDF price plus the regular retail price.

Since the cards don't give me a free PDF, they offer no benefit to purchase it through subscription. It would be less expensive for me to buy item cards via Amazon.com. I could also buy it through my local game store. Even if I pay full retail price, I avoid the shipping and handling charge.

Ergo, there is no benefit to me to include the item cards in the subscription other than saving me the trouble of ordering it separately (through any of the channels listed above).

Now, while Paizo has decided it is important to include it in the subscription, I disagree with their assessment. They've given the argument that they believe that this is important in terms of offering a 'complete' subscription. I'd rather they said that they needed the money - that the cost of the item cards made it possible to offer the subscription. That argument wouldn't be easy to refute through a logical framework, as I believe the other is.

Does anyone here think that having to order the cards independently of the subscription would be a major inconvenience? If the item cards weren't included in the subscription, would you cancel the subscription? If there is no individual who thinks this is the case, then they should be removed from the subscription product. If it does not eliminate a single subscriber, or provide much inconvenience to those subscribers, but it brings in even one more subscriber, it seems like it would be worth it.

Of course, that assumes that people who want item cards would keep buying them if they weren't included in the subscription automatically. I'd like to assume that is the case.


DeadDMWalking wrote:

Ergo, there is no benefit to me to include the item cards in the subscription other than saving me the trouble of ordering it separately (through any of the channels listed above).

Now, while Paizo has decided it is important to include it in the subscription, I disagree with their assessment. They've given the argument that they believe that this is important in terms of offering a 'complete' subscription. I'd rather they said that they needed the money - that the cost of the item cards made it possible to offer the subscription. That argument wouldn't be easy to refute through a logical framework, as I believe the other is.

Does anyone here think that having to order the cards independently of the subscription would be a major inconvenience? If the item cards weren't included in the subscription, would you cancel the subscription? If there is no individual who thinks this is the case, then they should be removed from the subscription product. If it does not eliminate a single subscriber, or provide much inconvenience to those subscribers, but it brings in even one more subscriber, it seems like it would be worth it.

Of course, that assumes that people who want item cards would keep buying them if they weren't included in the subscription automatically. I'd like to assume that is the case.

Okay, I'll give you this point.

No, I don't think it would be a major inconvenience to order the cards seperately. And they don't come any cheaper, and you don't get a PDF for them. Hell, I'd even like PDF's for the cards if I could get it (so I could print them on card stock and re-use them, and keep them in good condition, and in reserve).

Maybe you don't get combined shipping if you do order the cards seperately? (shrug)

This might be a good case for not including the cards in the subscription. It really is not very difficult to add the cards seperately.

<<claps>>

Good job DeadDMWalking, score for you. Never let it be said I won't give props to sound logic.

Scarab Sages

Wow! Just wow...

I've never seen such whining and b%+@#ing over what? $20 dollars a month, about £10 or £11 quid right?

There a decent product and rather than moan why not look upon the subscription as an oppotunity to try something you normally might not. Hell it would cost a damn sight more if you had to buy the PDF's seperately.

**Actually just realised it's not even £10 a month since I don't see a card set being released every month**

Scarab Sages

Horus, this argument of $20 a YEAR (one set every 6 months) has been brought a few times (even by me) and it was answered that, while this amount seems very low for some, it can become a lot when you have very limited income (and I stand corrected has I respect people will lower income and hope they can enjoy Golarion as much as I do with the money they can spare for it).

I also think that DeadDMwalking has good points.

It gave me an idea on one thing about the item cards decks (not the Harrow deck). The item cards decks done for RotR and CotCT have a very limited target customer base. Those customers are only those that play in Golarion's APs (so those that buy PF). What use are a dogslicer, a horse chopper, barbarian chew, or reinforced scarf if you don't use Golarion/APs items? The crossroad between Item Cards customers and PF customers may be very small right now...

(Just a random idea inspired by DeadDM, I have no idea what the real situation is...) That may mean that Paizo might need to sell the item cards to as many PF customers as possible, if that niche product is to survive. If it was left out of the sub, maybe it would not be popular enough to continue making them? Maybe the preorder sales for the RotR deck were too low, that including them in the Chronicles sub was their only chance to sell enough to justify making the next deck in 6 months?

I'm not one who will die if those products are abandonned. But this is maybe not a question of including cards or not in the sub; it may be a question of having Golarion/AP specific cards or not having them at all...


Djoc wrote:


(Just a random idea inspired by DeadDM, I have no idea what the real situation is...) That may mean that Paizo might need to sell the item cards to as many PF customers as possible, if that niche product is to survive. If it was left out of the sub, maybe it would not be popular enough to continue making them? Maybe the preorder sales for the RotR deck were too low, that including them in the Chronicles sub was their only chance to sell enough to justify making the next deck in 6 months?

I'm not one who will die if those products are abandonned. But this is maybe not a question of including cards or not in the sub; it may be a question of having Golarion/AP specific cards or not having them at all...

I won't die if they're not included in the subscription either. I've been tenacious as a barnacle because nobody has actually nailed a good argument before (other than own their personal preference which is perfect valid to them, but not the basis of policy change when you don't have real numbers of people who don't object to the cards to compare against). Bluster and indignation aren't going to cut it with me, but DeadDM did a good job here.

You raise an interesting point Djoc. I didn't pre-order ANY of the Chronicle products at all (Map Folios, Gazeteers, nothing) until the Chronicle Subscription was formally announced. So I imagine the RotRL Item Cards did have low pre-order numbers. The trick is isolating the cause: that is-
1.) Is the market for them is actually that small?
2.) Nobody was pre-ordering anything because they were waiting for the subscription to be offered?

The Exchange

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
DeadDMWalking wrote:
Does anyone here think that having to order the cards independently of the subscription would be a major inconvenience? If the item cards weren't included in the subscription, would you cancel the subscription? If there is no individual who thinks this is the case, then they should be removed from the subscription product. If it does not eliminate a single subscriber, or provide much inconvenience to those subscribers, but it brings in even one more subscriber, it seems like it would be worth it.

I'd consider it an inconveniences. I generally don't preorder things, because I can't guarantee when they'll come in, and I might have a bunch hit my CC at the same time, which can be bad. I use a completely different card for my reoccurring purchases, one that I pay off every month. So having to order the cards separately *would* be an inconvenience, since I'd either have to preorder them, which I hate to do, or I'd have to remember to order them once the shipment came in, which is a pain to do.

Watcher wrote:
You raise an interesting point Djoc. I didn't pre-order ANY of the Chronicle products at all (Map Folios, Gazeteers, nothing) until the Chronicle Subscription was formally announced.

This is exactly my situation. I knew they were working on the PC subscription, so I didn't preorder anything. I didn't even order the cards, even though they were already out, because I didn't *know* they were already out. (And this is why waiting 'til something's out to order it is a pain. If you don't constantly monitor it, you might miss that it was released. And constantly monitoring it can be a *huge* inconvenience.)


Horus wrote:

Wow! Just wow...

I've never seen such whining and b%!%!ing over what? $20 dollars a month, about £10 or £11 quid right?

There a decent product and rather than moan why not look upon the subscription as an oppotunity to try something you normally might not. Hell it would cost a damn sight more if you had to buy the PDF's seperately.

**Actually just realised it's not even £10 a month since I don't see a card set being released every month**

Now that was real helpful. What happened to disagreeing in a respectful manner?

For some people, 14 tacken a year is a big deal, especially since we're talking about something that is useless to them.

It gets even more insulting when one sees that you thought it was $20 a month!! Assaulting someone because he doesn't want to spend that amount of money a month for something he has absolutely no use for is beyond rude.

Of course it's still less than the price of the books and pdfs combined, but that's not quite the point. For example, my Pathfinder subscription gives me the PDFs for free AND a discount on the books (in the end, it's like a PDF subscription with the books thrown in for shipping), and Planet Stories gives me 20% off cover price (and since I can combine it with my other subscriptions without paying much more for shipping, it means that most of those 20% make it through).
Great savings and real good perks, without anything I don't want forced upon me to get those.

Don't get me wrong: I want the cards, but I can understand those who don't. I don't think bad of Paizo for not implementing a different subscription for a cardless sub, or a skipping option for cards, I respect the opinion of those who don't like it.

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

If you're taking votes I too don't want the cards. Tried to use some of the other sets and basically got so little response from my players I gave up.

Including them will fairly certainly get me screwed on import duty here in the UK at some point. However a subscription is interesting because PDF's of map products could be really useful. Im assuming they'll be on sale seperately? What would comparative pricing be? Just trying to do some basic mathematics as my options are:
1. Subscribe, get free PDF and get screwed on import duty
2. Carry on as now, purchasing them as now and buy the PDF's seperately.

I should add for those who want more cards, if I do subscribe, the cards will be on Ebay within days of getting here, so that'll offset a couple of quid.

Any input?

Thanks,

Lewis.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Companion, Pawns, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Yes, on sale on ebay.. I wonder how many people will pay full price on ebay for them when they can buy them from paizo for the same price...

Dark Archive

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Sometimes get even more that basic price, I guess that's because Paizo things are hard to get in the UK. Gives me a festive smile!

Merry Christmas everyone!

Scarab Sages

KaeYoss wrote:
Horus wrote:

Wow! Just wow...

I've never seen such whining and b%!%!ing over what? $20 dollars a month, about £10 or £11 quid right?

There a decent product and rather than moan why not look upon the subscription as an oppotunity to try something you normally might not. Hell it would cost a damn sight more if you had to buy the PDF's seperately.

**Actually just realised it's not even £10 a month since I don't see a card set being released every month**

Now that was real helpful. What happened to disagreeing in a respectful manner?

For some people, 14 tacken a year is a big deal, especially since we're talking about something that is useless to them.

It gets even more insulting when one sees that you thought it was $20 a month!! Assaulting someone because he doesn't want to spend that amount of money a month for something he has absolutely no use for is beyond rude.

Of course it's still less than the price of the books and pdfs combined, but that's not quite the point. For example, my Pathfinder subscription gives me the PDFs for free AND a discount on the books (in the end, it's like a PDF subscription with the books thrown in for shipping), and Planet Stories gives me 20% off cover price (and since I can combine it with my other subscriptions without paying much more for shipping, it means that most of those 20% make it through).
Great savings and real good perks, without anything I don't want forced upon me to get those.

Don't get me wrong: I want the cards, but I can understand those who don't. I don't think bad of Paizo for not implementing a different subscription for a cardless sub, or a skipping option for cards, I respect the opinion of those who don't like it.

I'm not saying people have to buy the cards but when people start having hissy fits and saying they'll buy the PDF's and books seperately my draw drops. Even if it were £10 a month that's not a lot of money as I bet more than 75% of those going on and on about being cheated and unfairly treated by Paizo spend that on sweets and crap. I am not wealthy, far from it but if I want something badly enough I sacrifice for it. The subscription including cards are a lot cheaper than most's peoples sulky alternative.

Now as to those who genuinely can't afford it they have my sympathy, I've been there and I suspect that even without the cards it would still be outside the price range of a casual purchase particularly if you have to ship internationally.

End of day this is only my opinion and if you have a healthy sense of self only affects you as much as you let it.

Later Days


That's funny, Horus, I haven't seen any "hissy fits" in here, although your all-too-valuable contribution above comes pretty close.

I think arguments are spent and the matter is now settled. Everyone has decided how to either spend or not spend their money.

Thank you Paizo for participating in our discussion even though a few of us booted you around, and may you all and have a Smurfy new year.


Kruelaid wrote:

That's funny, Horus, I haven't seen any "hissy fits" in here, although your all-too-valuable contribution above comes pretty close.

I think arguments are spent and the matter is now settled. Everyone has decided how to either spend or not spend their money.

Thank you Paizo for participating in our discussion even though a few of us booted you around, and may you all and have a Smurfy new year.

Happy New Year Kruelaid Smurf!

And Horus, even though Krue and I disagreed.. he's right. The process is important.

I love the Paizo team, truely. I'm a new regular customer. But people have to be able to challenge authority, or in this case, the vendor.. otherwise standards don't get upheld, and quality takes a backseat.

I'd rather fight tooth and nail with these guys, than be amongst a bunch of fanboi's who take everything thatis not totally supportive of the company as a personal attack on themselves.

Again, the process itself is important.


Watcher wrote:


And Horus, even though Krue and I disagreed.. he's right. The process is important.

I love the Paizo team, truely. I'm a new regular customer. But people have to be able to challenge authority, or in this case, the vendor.. otherwise standards don't get upheld, and quality takes a backseat.

I'd rather fight tooth and nail with these guys, than be amongst a bunch of fanboi's who take everything thatis not totally supportive of the company as a personal attack on themselves.

Again, the process itself is important.

Listen to that man, he's so right in this.

While it goes against human nature to accept criticism and be proven wrong, companies should not only endure those who tell them that they did wrong, but be grateful. It's a very important reality check.

The worst thing that can happen to you is a bunch of fanboys who lap up everything and no one to bother telling you you're wrong. In such a situation, you fail to get better, and the worse you get, the fewer people will get your stuff. And maybe eventually even the fanboys had enough, and when that happens, they often turn right around and go from buying everything to shunning you altogether.

Of course, you can create the situation yourself by ignoring those who tell you you're wrong, or even insulting them. Has happened more than once.

Sovereign Court

Personally, I'm gung ho for the item cards. I've used individualized item cards for years, getting the idea from the late great Dave Hargrave (of Arduin fame). I've done item cards with my own illustrations, and this always added more flavor to the game. Having a set keyed to this adventure path is a great idea, and will save me the time to illustrate a set.

I'm also keen on the Pathfinder miniatures, and will be getting a set. If they don't make a Sandpoint Devil, I'll have to convert a mini for it.


Well I read the first page of this at present 4 page board so I don't know if this has been voiced but I LOVE IT! I like the decks, the maps and the PDFs Rock. It's really why I subscribed as the PDFs make this even better, the cards are fun. Now for me personelly I question the Harrow deck but I am willing to give it a go. I just want to say that this stuff is great and I really enjoy it. Were getting together today to make characters and start our game at the festival next week. I want it all because it has all been so yummy and kewl and I just don't want to wait but I will because it is worth the wait and the cost.

Thanks a bunch!

Liberty's Edge

Just adding my opinion to the mix for Paizo to weigh in the future. I feel the item cards shouldn't be a part of the Pathfinder Chronicles subscription. I understand that there are some that don't feel this way.

I don't feel having the ability to opt out of taking an item in the subscription is a viable option. I do think offering a Pathfinder Chronicles Lite subscription as an alternative is a viable option.

Beyond expressing my opinion on this issue, I want to just say thanks to Paizo and all their staff for the fine quality work they have been doing over the years. I have enjoyed all their products I have purchased in the past (Dragon, Dungeon, Pathfinder, GameMaster, etc.) and look forward to doing so in the future. I also feel their customer service and their efforts to directly interface with the customers here on these boards is great! Keep up the great work.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, LO Special Edition, Pathfinder Accessories, PF Special Edition Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I was Pointed to this Thread from another thread and I found it interesting. I know it has been dead for awhile, and I did not read every post (Mostly only Paizo Posts and the relevant ones they replied to) But has anyone brought up the Idea of offering a Free PDF for the Item cards for Subscribers?..

One thing I do not like about the item cards was that I was afraid to write on them. If i Could print them out myself that would allow me to be able to write on them without the worry of ruining the original.

This may not be possible depending on the deal Paizo has with the Artist.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I like the cards.

I too will chime in with a request to have them available as a PDF. I have access to scanning equipement and color printers, so doing my own is feasable, but I am a bit pressed for time usually, so would appreciate a PDF version.

Mistwalker


Ummm... the cards have been removed from the Chronicles line.

Vic Wertz wrote:

As you may have noticed, we've been making some changes to our Pathfinder product line, including the introduction of the Pathfinder Companion and the rebranding of GameMastery Modules to Pathfinder Modules.

We've also re-evaluated the Pathfinder Chronicles line, which had previously been defined as sort of a catch-all for everything that wasn't an Adventure Path. In our current vision, the Chronicles line is now focused on non-adventure products that build the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting.
This means that the Item Cards don't fit in the Chronicles line anymore; instead, they'll be in the Pathfinder Accessories line. As a result, Item Cards will no longer be sent as part of the Pathfinder Chronicles subscription—if you'd like the Item Card sets, you'll need to preorder them separately.

See thread here.

Liberty's Edge

Rauol_Duke wrote:
Ummm... the cards have been removed from the Chronicles line.

All the posts prior to yours on this thread predate that announcement.

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