I'm curious about what Paizo will include in the Chronicles subscription, namely, does it include item cards?
The reason being that I don't want item cards, while I am interested in subscribing to the books and folios.
So what's the scoop? And does anyone else share my sentiments?
For you, Kruelaid ol' buddy, there is some good news and some bad news. I'll add my opinions at the bottom.
The bad news is, yes the Chronicles subscription is slated to include Item Cards. It's also slated to include the Harrow Deck, which is *NOT* item cards (so you might feel differently about it).
The good news is that the Chronicles subscription will offer you the chance to skip the Rise of the Runelords item cards, since those have already shipped out to some customers. There will be an option to start with the map foilo instead.
Where you specifically are going to hit a snag is with the Curse of the Crimson Throne Cards, and the Harrow Deck (if you considered that as something unwanted like the item cards, but I have to point out again- completely different product with a totally different function).
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How do I feel about it? I'm not adverse to the item cards in the subscription, though I've only just started to look into them. I got the Runelord cards just for fun.
My feelings on the cards overall is that you need a couple different decks to sort of round out a collection for a campaign. I could do that now by adding Dragon's Trove and Elements of Power Cards to my existing RotR cards, if I so wish. The fact that the Heroes Hoard and Relics of War have to be collected puts me off however (because they strike me as more generalized in terms of magic items).
Though Joshua Frost, Paizo Marketing Director has stated elsewhere that there will be an update on the future of the Item Card product like that might address my concerns with Heroes Hoard and Relics of War- later this coming week.
Well, that does rather bother me. Adding bells and whistles to core stuff is skirting a little close to the kind of marketing I expect from say.... well no need to say that, is there.
I can't get the pdfs without the subscription, so if I want pdfs (They are handy when you have to wait months for your mail, not to mention carious DM tasks) then I have to sink extra money into something I don't want and can't use unless I invest in additional stuff I don't want.
Upsetting.
In this situation I think Paizo is going to lose a little money, because now I will not be getting a subscription and, I suspect, will order fewer products. Additionally, my Paizo morale has now suffered some harm. Well, I'll think about it.
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Well, that does rather bother me. Adding bells and whistles to core stuff is skirting a little close to the kind of marketing I expect from say.... well no need to say that, is there.
I can't get the pdfs without the subscription, so if I want pdfs (They are handy when you have to wait months for your mail, not to mention carious DM tasks) then I have to sink extra money into something I don't want and can't use unless I invest in additional stuff I don't want.
Upsetting.
In this situation Paizo is going to lose money, because now I will not be getting a subscription. Additionally, my Paizo morale has now suffered some harm.
So, you're telling us that you're willing to sacrifice the whole Chronicles line and the free PDFs, just because of two 10$ products a year you don't realy want?
I am kinda siding with Djoc here, Kruelaid.
You can skip the RotR cards. Over the course of a year you'll have the CotCT Cards and the Harrow Deck. And the Harrow Deck is not really item cards, but extra role-playing resource for the entire Second AP.
So, really just one set of item cards. I know you're on a budget, but it could be worse.
Maybe they'll have a secondary option to skip cards altogether.
Director of Narrative
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I think Kruelaid's hesitance might be exacerbated because he's in frickin' China and shipping probably gets kinda pricey ordering so many items.
I feel you on the lack of love for the item cards, Kruelaid. I ended up trading all the ones I received as freebies (and got some really neat dice that I'm retraining) because while I will not use them at the table, many others will. I'm getting the subscription, and if there is no way to exclude the item cards for the next AP I will just sell them, trade them or give them away.
I think Kruelaid's hesitance might be exacerbated because he's in frickin' China and shipping probably gets kinda pricey ordering so many items.
A fair point Daigle.
At one point there was discussion about being able to exclude certain things from the Chronicles Subscription, but that was also before the programming and restructuring the ordering/shipping system proved to be tricky.
I feel you on the lack of love for the item cards, Kruelaid. I ended up trading all the ones I received as freebies (and got some really neat dice that I'm retraining) because while I will not use them at the table, many others will. I'm getting the subscription, and if there is no way to exclude the item cards for the next AP I will just sell them, trade them or give them away.
Yes and I love my little brass d20 you gave me mate. Bloody thing always rolls high.
I feel you on the lack of love for the item cards, Kruelaid. I ended up trading all the ones I received as freebies (and got some really neat dice that I'm retraining) because while I will not use them at the table, many others will. I'm getting the subscription, and if there is no way to exclude the item cards for the next AP I will just sell them, trade them or give them away.Yes and I love my little brass d20 you gave me mate. Bloody thing always rolls high.
I too would prefer not to get the cards. Don't use them, however I will still most likely subscribe. (Cant you just have a chronicles subsription, and a seperate cards subscription (seeing as I guess they dont come in PDF) for pathfinder?)
I dont really understand the attraction of the cards, do you just give them out when players get magic items? Why? cant the players just write this stuff down? I know I am unlikely to trade them so they will undoubtedly just gather dust.
It does feel a bit like they know subscribers have a bit of obsessive collector in them and they are feeding the habit hoping to get us hooked on a new thing. However Paizo have built up a fair bit of good service cred with me (the PDF's as part of the subscription, quick response to questions, mailing options, replacement stuff etc etc)so I will not let getting a few useless items phase me.
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The main use I see in them is to give the players a good image support for the special items you give them. Sure, they can write "Mask of whatever" and "Special Medalion" and "Very Nice Spear" on their sheet, but I think seeing art is quite interresting for players too. I don't plan on writing on the cards or leaving them to my players, I just want to show them.
I'm using the art in PF as much as possible, creating PowerPoints with the places, monsters and NPCs we find in PF, to show my players and let them enjoy the Golarion experience as much as I do. I feel the deck of card can fill that same need, but for items.
Note that I own very few item cards (only one booster from my Gencon 07 welcome bag), and didn't see the use of item cards until recently. Then I saw the previews for RotR card deck and the symbol of Lamashtu, which I don't think can be found anywhere else so far, and I knew I would definitely find use for that deck.
Alternatively, cut a deal with the players you're going to play that path. They each cut in to use the deck. Or pay your portion of the next pizza delivery or two (10$ + minimal S/H).
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I don't care much for the item cards either, they usually just get strewn about the house since we throw them at the cats. Or get used as magic the gathering tokens. I'd prefer it if the cards were separate or if we could just check a box that says 'no item cards'.
I'd like the PDFs but that extra 10 a month is a big deal to me. I'll just have to stick to preordering individual items.
I can understand why this is upsetting to people. I have to budget my entertainment funds rather carefully (I had to cancel an MMO subscription to allow myself a Gamemastery Modules subscription); I'm finishing up college and can only work part-time, due to a heavy coarse load and a very sporadic class schedule. An extra $10 for a product that I wouldn't use would be difficult for me to accept, even if such a product was only released twice a year.
I dont really understand the attraction of the cards, do you just give them out when players get magic items? Why? cant the players just write this stuff down? I know I am unlikely to trade them so they will undoubtedly just gather dust.
It's another level or layer of immersion.
I'm not going to harangue you or the other posters for not digging the cards, if you don't like them- you don't like them.. And that's fair, but let me make a few counter points-
Why make color maps either with software or printing them from a PDF?
Why paint miniatures?
Why even have miniatures? You can use coins, tokens, and misc. crud!
Why do some people (not me) make 3-D representations of certain areas?
Immersion, suspension of disbelief, better storytelling, and fun factor. Hell I buy Pathfinder AP's because I want something with an actual interesting plot and story, but there are plenty of cheaper adventures I could get somewhere else if that wasn't a priority.
The cards are an immersive inventory control tool. And I willingly concede they would appeal to some groups more than others. Some groups don't get as invested no matter how great the AP is, because "beer and pretzels" are where they choose to be, and that's okay.
I do take exception to the notion that those that get into them only do so because of a lack of ability to resist collectables. In a previous post in this thread, I gavce a link to another thread where I did tell Mike McArtor and Joshua Frost that the Heroes Hoard and Relics of War series of cards were more of less undesirable because they had to be collected instead of bought in a set. I don't want to collect them, I want them as GM tools. But that's another discussion being held elsewhere.
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Why make color maps either with software or printing them from a PDF?
Why paint miniatures?
Why even have miniatures? You can use coins, tokens, and misc. crud!
Why do some people (not me) make 3-D representations of certain areas?
These things all serve to make up for the fact that the 5" square grid is immersion breaking. Non-tactical situations don't need handouts in the way that combat does. And because I'm not minted I just use a gridmat, wipe-clean markers and a handful of miniatures (my nagas are made from rolled up blu-tac).
It's the tie-up with Chronicles that I don't understand.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of item cards, but if a DM i was playing with pulled them out I wouldn't complain. But I have to watch my pennies and the temptation to spill some of them on a Chronicles subscription is lessened by the inclusion of 30dollars worth of spend that I won't use, and that doesn't expand on my knowledge of Galorian.
I want to subscribe to chronicles so that I know loads of background for the APs, so that I can set adventures of my own in Galorian, so that I can read a bunch of the great rpg writing coming out of Paizo...
Everything else in the Chronicles subscription appears to be information; why throw an optional game-aid into an information bundle?
Everything else in the Chronicles subscription appears to be information; why throw an optional game-aid into an information bundle?
Geraint,
I don't propose that what you're saying is without merit or consideration. That's partially why I responded to Werecorpse's post and not yours.
If you're short on cash, and you want the PDF's, I can see where you're coming from. They might pose as an obstacle to getting those PDF's.
Yet some of the previous posts had the tone of "what good are these things?" and "who would use them?" That, my friend, is something to which I can reply, and thought was worth defending. If someone wants to chuck them at the cat and throw them away, that's their decision, but it doesn't mean that someone else couldn't find some value or use for the cards.
However, I don't disagree that they can be a luxury item for gamer on a budget.
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Extra 10 a month? Do you mean ten bucks for an item card deck? Only the AP-specific decks are included in the subscription, so that's two decks a year.So. adding shipping and handling that's 30 dollars a year surcharge for the pdfs - and some cards lying around until they're chucked in the bin.
That would be true if you set your shipping in the most inefficient selection, but if you ship everything at once the shipping will be the same regardless of the two decks a year.
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That would be true if you set your shipping in the most inefficient selection, but if you ship everything at once the shipping will be the same regardless of the two decks a year.Extra 10 a month? Do you mean ten bucks for an item card deck? Only the AP-specific decks are included in the subscription, so that's two decks a year.So. adding shipping and handling that's 30 dollars a year surcharge for the pdfs - and some cards lying around until they're chucked in the bin.
Ah, I've not done that before - thanks for the info.
So, a 20dollar surcharge then.
I don't propose that what you're saying is without merit or consideration. That's partially why I responded to Werecorpse's post and not yours.
And your argument is entirely valid, I started replying to your post and then got carried away - sorry about that.
You've made some fine points Geraint, which is why I hesitate to say that anything you're saying is wrong, or actually needs to be lobbied against.
It's good that they hear how you feel.
Having followed the boards, and having a decent memory- I know that at one point they wanted to have "different layers" of subscription for Pathfinder Chronicles. For example: a subscription that just included books, and another subscription that included anything and everything.
I don't think that it's greed that is driving this necessarily, because Gary Teter and Vic Wertz have both said that programming the ordering system and re-vamping the consolidated shipping has been very difficult. This inclusion of the cards might stem from a need to simplify.
And for all I actually know, maybe they will come up with those different subscription options after all, particularly when they see the feedback. Which is why your point of view is important.
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I don't think that it's greed that is driving this necessarily, because Gary Teter and Vic Wertz have both said that programming the ordering system and re-vamping the consolidated shipping has been very difficult. This inclusion of the cards might stem from a need to simplify.
And for all I actually know, maybe they will come up with those different subscription options after all, particularly when they see the feedback. Which is why your point of view is important.
To add to those points, I would say I've seen people ask/complain about D0 and TC1 not being included in the Modules subscription. Because, for some, subscribing means they get everything without having to come to this site every month or so, to see if they missed anything that was supposedly not included in the subscription. They wanted to receive everything about Golarion, in exchange for a monthly charge to their card and no time lost on shopping.
Pleasing everyone is hard!
So, you're telling us that you're willing to sacrifice the whole Chronicles line and the free PDFs, just because of two 10$ products a year you don't realy want?
No, I'll order what I really want and be pissed off that Paizo is throwing something in that doesn't fit the format of the rest, namely campaign setting books.
And I change or replace a lot of items in my published adventures.
Has anyone considered that some people are not going to subscribe to PF's RotRL and CotCT but will subscribe to the Chronicles? There are people who will make their own adventures using your setting.
I know you guys are a business and you want us all to use the cards, but come on, they cater to a particular kind of taste. The next thing I know, there will be goblin teddy bears and runelord coffee mugs in there, too.
(just funnin' ya)
=)
...they can be a luxury item for gamer on a budget.
Exactly.
Is Paizo going to reply to this?
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Actually, got myself in a tiz there.That would be true if you set your shipping in the most inefficient selection, but if you ship everything at once the shipping will be the same regardless of the two decks a year.
Because I'm shipping to the UK I have to keep the value of my goods down per delivery. For any parcel worth more than £18 (about 34 dollars) ordered from abroad I have to pay a £4 handling charge and £8 per item, for the privilege of having customs open my post, check it, reseal it and then send it on.
So it's usually more economical for me to not bundle my deliveries - $30 surcharge.
But that's just a quibble over the amount. KruelAid has made the point that I'd really like to see answered by Paizo.
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Chief Technical Officer
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No, I'll order what I really want and be pissed off that Paizo is throwing something in that doesn't fit the format of the rest, namely campaign setting books.
The Pathfinder Chronicles subscription is *not* a selection of campaign setting books. It's a line of campaign accessories. That line includes those setting books, but it also includes map folios, item cards, and the Harrow deck. It may someday even include other product types, like Map Packs or Flip-Mats, or something else we haven't thought of yet (though none of those are currently planned). In short, it's a selection of products that we feel complements the Pathfinder subscription, and it's our response to people who have been asking for a "deluxe subscription."
I'd also like to point out that this product may not ideal for people with limited monthly budgets. It's not a regular line where the product is always in the same format. The currently announced products include map folios, 64-page books, card decks, and even a 256-page hardcover. Some months, there are no products; other months, there may be three.
So, no, it's not for everyone. But I think the people who subscribe to it are going to have a *lot* of fun with it.
So, no, it's not for everyone. But I think the people who subscribe to it are going to have a *lot* of fun with it.
Thanks Vic. For the record, you needn't rebut by saying people will have a lot of fun with it. I'm not saying WE won't, I have fun with everything I've got from Paizo. I'm behind you guys and have posted hundreds of times to that effect.
As for your answer. Fair enough. But the fact remains that having item cards for one AP requires me to collect item cards in addition to the subscription in order for them to really become part of my campaign. Map packs, Harrow decks, flip maps, and the like do not share this quality, do they, Vic?
So, is there anything to stop me from canceling my subscription when some stuff comes up that I don't like and then resubscribing when said item(s) are passed?
And were I to do that, how much would this piss you off, Cosmo?
*thinks for a while*
GAH! Damn you all!
*adds item cards to his shopping cart*
I do take exception to the notion that those that get into them only do so because of a lack of ability to resist collectables. In a previous post in this thread, I gavce a link to another thread where I did tell Mike McArtor and Joshua Frost that the Heroes Hoard and Relics of War series of cards were more of less undesirable because they had to be collected instead of bought in a set. I don't want to collect them, I want them as GM tools. But that's another discussion being held elsewhere.
That wasn't what I said, or intended. Those who like to use them, use them-- fine. Others who dont use them but have an urge to complete collections may struggle to resist getting these items. To the extent I gave offence I retract my statement- on reflection the implied imagery was a little inflammatory.
I don't propose that what you're saying is without merit or consideration. That's partially why I responded to Werecorpse's post and not yours.
Right... so my post was without merit or consideration. I take offense to that.
I have never used item cards and dont see the attraction, or indeed how they would be best used. Thanks Djoc for posting how he/she uses them. I often show my players pictures of monsters and locations in modules, so I can see that showing them pictures of certain items may be of some merit. The DM then keeps the cards right?
goblin teddy bears and runelord coffee mugs in there, too.
I might spring for a Sihedron Mug. I'm sure a few people on the boards would be interested in "Seven Sins Shots" as well...
I have never used item cards and dont see the attraction, or indeed how they would be best used. Thanks Djoc for posting how he/she uses them. I often show my players pictures of monsters and locations in modules, so I can see that showing them pictures of certain items may be of some merit. The DM then keeps the cards right?
Same here man. But I don't need to show my players pictures of items because I can sketch an item in pencil in about 30 seconds if someone really needs to see it.
Anyway. It's all moot. The cards are in, Paizo is trying to get everyone in, and although I'm willing have a look at a deck, I really don't see myself collecting more_crap_than_I_need, no matter how persuasive my favorite gaming company is.
As it is I have to carry an excessive amount of DM crap to the game. And for various reasons, I'm getting a little sensitive to overconsumption here on the cusp of middle age. Frankly I like the pdf's because they reduce my crap, so it's ironic that I'll get more crap while trying to buy something that will help me carry less crap.
And BTW, crap denotes all the crap I own, even the stuff I like, so don't think I'm calling only the stuff I don't like crap because it's all crap. I'm not trying to offend anyone buy calling the stuff only you like "crap".
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The Pathfinder Chronicles subscription is *not* a selection of campaign setting books. It's a line of campaign accessories. That line includes those setting books, but it also includes map folios, item cards, and the Harrow deck. It may someday even include other product types, like Map Packs or Flip-Mats, or something else we haven't thought of yet (though none of those are currently planned). In short, it's a selection of products that we feel complements the Pathfinder subscription, and it's our response to people who have been asking for a "deluxe subscription."
Fair play. I guess the flavoursome "Chronicles" part of the name, combined with the Chronicles logo appearing on the Guide to Darkmoon Vale and the Campaign Setting made my brain fuse and think; Chronicles = Campaign Setting.
Which I don't think anyone has ever actually claimed.
Any other way we can get nifty pdf bundling with our Campaing Setting books?
That wasn't what I said, or intended. Those who like to use them, use them-- fine. Others who dont use them but have an urge to complete collections may struggle to resist getting these items. To the extent I gave offence I retract my statement- on reflection the implied imagery was a little inflammatory.
And I'll apologize if I was also infammatory (unconditionally I might add). Yours was the last post in a short series and it sort of summed it up. You might have gotten the brunt of some of my frustration that Coridan's players find no other use them to torment household pets, and Geraint thinks he'll throw them away.
I honestly don't care what people use them for, and if someone doesn't want them for no other reason than "they don't want them"- they don't owe any explanation to me. Chuck 'em at the cat or toss 'em in the rubbish, I'm not a cop. On the other hand, one doesn't have to depict the product as garbage either. There is a balance between two extremes, wouldn't you agree?
Anyway, I have harbor no ill will against you. Even in light of your next post to which I am going to reply.
Right... so my post was without merit or consideration. I take offense to that.
I have never used item cards and dont see the attraction, or indeed how they would be best used. Thanks Djoc for posting how he/she uses them. I often show my players pictures of monsters and locations in modules, so I can see that showing them pictures of certain items may be of some merit. The DM then keeps the cards right?
Werecorpse,
You've taken a sentence fragment without context and reverse engineered to come up with an interpretation where I have insulted you. I could spend a great deal of time trying to step through the logic and sequence of everyone's respective posts to show where that wasn't my intention..
But I'm going to pass.
You're going to have to read the whole thread and consider the overall tone of everything I said. I defended the Item Cards, but I also tried to put myself in the place of those who might consider it an extra expense they can't afford. Empathy and a balanced perspective.
If you can't see that, then nothing I'll say now will dissuade you otherwise. As I mentioned in my previous post, perhaps my words were a little inflammatory too, and you have my regrets, but that's all I can do for you.
And BTW, crap denotes all the crap I own, even the stuff I like, so don't think I'm calling only the stuff I don't like crap because it's all crap. I'm not trying to offend anyone buy calling the stuff only you like "crap".
Krue..
Despite intimations otherwise, nobody here is that prickly and sensitive. :D
Or they shouldn't be.
Werecorpse,You've taken a sentence fragment without context and reverse engineered to come up with an interpretation where I have insulted you. I could spend a great deal of time trying to step through the logic and sequence of everyone's respective posts to show where that wasn't my intention..
I dont agree that this is what I have done. I took a paragraph (or two sentences at least) referring to my post as without merit and consideration and said it offended me. It wasn't a sentence fragment, and it wasn't reverse engineered. I accept your comment that no offense was intended by you in your original post, that is fine by me.
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I don't propose that what you're saying is without merit or consideration. That's partially why I responded to Werecorpse's post and not yours.
Right... so my post was without merit or consideration. I take offense to that.
The boards ate my first post. Anyways, not to throw any fuel on the fire, the statement quoted above implies that your position HAS MERIT. Not proposing it is without is very similar to proposing it is with merit.
And yeah. Happy day. I remember asking for this subscription Yesterday. And lo and behold, it has been granted. Gimme, gimme, gimme.
I'm going to have a lot of subscriber tags after my name in a few minutes.
I don't propose that what you're saying is without merit or consideration. That's partially why I responded to Werecorpse's post and not yours.
Right... so my post was without merit or consideration. I take offense to that.
The boards ate my first post. Anyways, not to throw any fuel on the fire, the statement quoted above implies that your position HAS MERIT. Not proposing it is without is very similar to proposing it is with merit.
And yeah. Happy day. I remember asking for this subscription Yesterday. And lo and behold, it has been granted. Gimme, gimme, gimme.
I'm going to have a lot of subscriber tags after my name in a few minutes.
Yeah I get that is the accurate implication. Watcher was responding to Geraint when he said that the fact he didn't respond didn't mean what he (Geraint) had said was without merit. He was explaining why he had not responded to Geraint (ie cos his comment had merit) and part of why he had responded to me. I accept no offense was meant, there is no fire to fuel.
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You know what I find interesting about this discussion, there are people that don't want the item cards and then there are people that DO want the item cards and are trying to convince the people that don't want them to want them.
Me personally, I don't want them. I'm not interested, it's 1 more thing to lug around and a good DM is all the immersion I need.
But I'm not here to post about the pros and cons of item cards, so don't hit the reply button to try to convince me I should want them. I'm here to make a suggestion to Pazio. Since the Chronicles line is in fact various different products, why not provide a SKIP option for all the products? You've done it with the Runelord cards, so why not put it on all the Chronicles product? When the current month's Chronicles products start shipping, unlock the skip option for the next month's product(s). Then give us up to the day the item starts shipping to unskip if we change our minds.
Now for me, someone who wants the PDFs, I'll deal with the item cards. I've bought of many CCGs and played them for a short amount of time that more cards that sit around and do nothing don't bother me. Yes it's a waste of money, yes some months I don't have the money to waste, but I'm just a fool like that. :)
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Chief Technical Officer
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goblin teddy bears and runelord coffee mugs in there, too.I might spring for a Sihedron Mug. I'm sure a few people on the boards would be interested in "Seven Sins Shots" as well...
Which brings up a key distinction. The Pathfinder Chronicles sub will include products specifically designed as campaign accessories. Merchandising items like Pathfinder T-shirts, goblin action figures, or "Don't Blame Me, I Voted for Karzoug" bumper stickers would not be included in the subscription.
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SirUrza, I'm sure deep down inside you, you know you really want those cards. You're just resisting right now. Just close your eyes and repeat "I want AP's item cards" until you are convinced. (Joking!)
Your idea is nice, though I'm not sure Paizo would want us to be able to leave out all products.
Maybe we could have those "I want / I don't want" options for the "edge" products. That would mean, either:
1) the products that don't give PDFs (So far, that means item cards and the Harrow deck)
2) the products that are too closely related to a specific AP (So far, the item cards and map folios)
That second option would also be nice if you want to later add products more related to GMM, like a Bloodsworn Vale/Falcon's Hollow (Andoran?) item cards deck and/or map folio, which could be left out by non-GMM subcribers. (That region is getting a lot of attention in the last 6 months and upcomming 6 months, with D0-1, E1, TC1, LB0-1-2, Guide to Bloodsworn Vale. I'm just wondering if those two - or other surprises - are on the brainstorming table ;)
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Chief Technical Officer
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Since the Chronicles line is in fact various different products, why not provide a SKIP option for all the products? You've done it with the Runelord cards, so why not put it on all the Chronicles product?
We haven't specifically done it for the RotR cards—it's just a side effect of the fact that when you subscribe to any of our lines, you can always start with the current installment or the next installment.
As for letting you skip some products, well, is that really a subscription? Does Sports Illustrated let you skip the College Football Special just because you only care about the NFL? One of the good things about subscriptions from our side is that they help us set out print runs in advance. We have a certain number of subscribers, and we use that to set our print runs. If a bunch of people decide to skip a product, we'd have potentially overprinted.
Also, that would provide a way for people to get the subscriber benefit of the free PDF for some items without providing the commitment to us that makes providing that perk worthwhile from our point of view—the same commitment that everyone else has provided to us.
Yeah I get that is the accurate implication. Watcher was responding to Geraint when he said that the fact he didn't respond didn't mean what he (Geraint) had said was without merit. He was explaining why he had not responded to Geraint (ie cos his comment had merit) and part of why he had responded to me. I accept no offense was meant, there is no fire to fuel.
Yep, it was a misunderstanding. All is well.
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So, why not two subscription types. Call it Supreme and Deluxe.
Supreme comes with everything, even item cards.
Deluxe comes with things that are PDFable. Item cards are kind of nice, but I don't really need them. And by need, I mean want. Sure, I'll buy them to save me the hassle of actually watching the site everyday to make sure you don't release a product that I miss, but, if it were an option, I'd probably take the 'every book product and map product subscription option'.
If that's something you guys will do.
You know what I find interesting about this discussion, there are people that don't want the item cards and then there are people that DO want the item cards and are trying to convince the people that don't want them to want them.
Respectfully, I haven't seen the Pro-card people actually doing that. You're describing coercion, and most of the item card proponents have conceded that the other point of view is valid. They just don't agree that the cards have no value at all.
One could say: "You know what I find interesting about this discussion, there are people that do want the item cards and then there are people that DON'T want the item cards and are trying to convince the people that do want them not to want them."
Now, actually I don't think that's really true. :)
But I don't think the reverse is either.
Hopefully this won't spark another round of bad feelings, okay? Hey, we agree on Seoni right? (Till the new Paladin is unveiled anyway!)