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Anyone ever play Top Secret/S.I., if so what was your experience like?
Wayfinder, PaizoCon Founder
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Anyone ever play Top Secret/S.I., if so what was your experience like?
Sorry, I've got the old 2nd edition. From what I remember of that older version, the game is very lethal. As in, one shot and you are dead, or at least out of action. None of this soaking up bullets and still doing kung-fu moves. You get shot, you take an immediate penalty in several categories. I loved the level of detail in this game, but it was a bit of a task to wrap your head around the rules.
I've just pulled the old box off my shelf and paged through the rulebook. Wow. So...1970s. Love the hand-to-hand combat rules!
Nostalgia ensues.....
I never played the original Top Secret but I do have a copy of it and used most of the original modules. The rules for Top Secret/S.I,are very different. It is a skill based game. Decide your starting profession then buy skills revolving around it, become a espionage agent.
Damage is designated to specific body areas. To off set death you use Luck Points. It's a d% system. Attribute and skill modifiers for difficult tasks require you to attempt a task and half or quarter ability or subtract a modifier or both.
I've added a lot of complexity to the game and found it to be y favorite.
I played Top Secret for a few years, it was an excellent game, although I lost a few characters--but hey, that just made it exciting.
The original is probably one of the few old games that I would ever consider playing again... probably more from good memories than anything else.
Top Secret/S.I. gives you a lot more generosity in keeping your agent alive because of the way the Luck Point mechanic works. Normally, the Admin keeps track and when your agent gets in too much trouble (injured or to be killed) you spend a luck point to avoid the fate. Once your out, your done. If you are out of luck points and still alive at the end of the game you can spend 1 Fame & Fortune Point (XP in D&D) to buy 1d4+1 more luck points.
My group spent an enormous time creating their characters so to avoid premature deaths, I placed the Luck Points in their hands, so they knew how many they had left. We have had very few deaths, several near calls. It does make you nervous when your going into the next game with only 1-2 left because you need to survive the whole game before acquiring more.
I played the heck out of the original Top Secret. Never got around to Top Secret/S.I., however I seem to remember the original game having "Fortune Points".
My only problem with the original game was that the adventures always turned into commando missions instead of 007-like espionage. Instead of wearing tuxedos and armed with a Walther PPK, I always seemed to be wearing fatigues and armed with a 10-Gauge Combat Shotgun and grenades. Yes, agents died all the time, but old school players had a higher tolerance for such things (the game Boot Hill comes to mind). In fact, the higher lethality made the game more tense and enjoyable when you succeeded.
So pick a Con and run a game. If I'm in the area, I'll be sure to sign up for it.
If I recall the original rules correctly, Fortune Points were what saved your life. Now they are called Luck Points, and Fame & Fortune Points are your experience points. With F&F points you earn maybe 1-3 per game session and buy new levels in skills (or new skills), improve attribute scores, buy advantages, that sort of thing. It's nice to see small character improvements after 1-3 game sessions. You can also save your points and buy a lot of things later on when your ready. I give my players a lot more options with theirs but my game is extremely heavy in house rules.
I absolutely loved that game! Still think its one of the best systems out. Its a good beginner system because of the % mechanics. %s are easy to wrap one's head around.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I used to free-lance for some of the large Top Secret, S.I projects. Did you have any questions?
In terms of mood, I liked the fact that the mechanics were open-ended enough that the game could do justice to everything from superhero adventures to pretty gritty Technothriller stuff. The WEB versus ORION baseline was intended to be more globetrotting "Man from UNCLE" than anything else.
What I really enjoyed about the mechanics is that they were written in a manner which made it easy to add to. Most areas of the game I touched on with house rules. Other games I have played made it more difficult. Change one thing it affects another, that sort of thing.
Most of the missions that I Administer take several game sessions to resolve. They are a good mix of action, roleplaying, and figuring out what is going on. I have commando missions but I save those for when we haven't played for awhile or I need to come up with something in a shorter period of time. I'm trying to make things more James Bondish. It is hard to include parties, interaction with teh villain early on in the game without things going wrong. How did others handle these issues?
How many players did you folks typically have in a group? I found it to be a good game for a small group of players.
We played the original Top Secret a few times, but quickly ditched it in favor of Victory Games "James Bond 007" game, which was an extremely long-term hit (like, decades of enjoyment).
I have that game here at home but never played it. Have browsed through it several times looking for ideas. I got more use out of the James Bond modules and the equipment book and travel book they published later. Those I really liked, especially the travel book. Everytime we tackled a James Bond module, things went wrong and it blew up in our face. Apparently they were right in the James Bond song "Nobody Does it Better" because we sure didn't.
Never played, always wanted to. What is the most recent edition of the system/game?
The most recent edition is called Top Secret/S.I. by TSR. It came out in 1987. WOTC currently holds the license but they are unwilling to do anything with it. Darn wizards anyway. You can easily find a boxed set for sale on the internet. There are a fair number of accessories that were printed as well.
High stakes Gamble: boxed set, advanced automobile rules, racing rules, and ORION/WEB headquarters are featured.
Commando: A military supplement, contains some military equipment, groups, rules for military character creation,military hotspots in the world. Also Brushfire Wars, a companion supplement to Commando. This contains short commando adventures, each a few pages long.
Agent 13: Takes the game into the 1930's pulp action.
Covert Surcebooks 1 and 2: Real life spy cases around the world as well as real life organizations such as CIA, KGB, Mossad. More of a text book than a playing aid.
Modules: The best modules are the San Cristobal series (3 of them linked together) and The final weapon module. Doomsday drop is ok as well.
The best books overall are G4 File, Guns, Gadgets, and Getaway Gear, although the vehicles and weapons are a bit outdated.
The best: ORION Rising and The Web sourcebooks. Detail out the campaign a bit. Provide bases for the two opposing organizations as well as many short scenarios you can drop in your game.
There are a few more items but these are the better ones.
Thank you for the information. I'll look forward to picking up some of those and giving them a try.
Archlich, the Players Guide is 96 pages long, the Administrators Guide 64 pages long. A rather poor equipment book comes with the boxed set as well. I put tons of work into the game in reagards to adding and modfying rules so they were a lot more complex and real. The nice thing is if you like to do this, the rules are easy to work with and not break. Personally, I like to work with the rules system, there probably isn't a section I didn't overhaul throughout the years. If your looking for something to play that's quick and easy without a lot of complication it should work. If your ever wondering what I did in regards to any section in order to add detail I'll be around. Hope you like it.
I have that game here at home but never played it. Everytime we tackled a James Bond module, things went wrong and it blew up in our face. Apparently they were right in the James Bond song "Nobody Does it Better" because we sure didn't.
That's one of the things we liked best: engaging in a lot of firefights gets you killed for sure. It's a grittier standpoint than the 10th level fighter (or Tough Hero, or whatever) who can absorb hundreds of bullets from guards and then easily kill them all while the DM adds up XP like a video game score.
Anyone ever play Top Secret/S.I., if so what was your experience like?
I have played Top Secret/S.I. It was so long ago that I can hardly remember many details. I will say that I remember enjoying the original Top Secret more, but that may have more to do with the nostalgia as I was still so new to role-playing back then.
To risk a slight tangent, can we get some shout outs for Boot Hill?
Kirth:
Yes our Top Secret/S.I. campaign is filled with opportunities for danger. I work the Luck Points differently than the rules suggest by putting them in the hands of the players. Unlike the rules, I allow them to know how many points they have left. It provides advantages in a few ways.
1. When the PC dies it isn't as much of a shock to the player, and Top Secret/S.I. is one of those games that when your dead, you really are dead.
2. The PCs can better decide if they want to avoid a serious injury at given points in the game. If they just got started on a game and they know that they got a few luck points to spend, they maybe will use them in order to better handle the challenges forthcoming. If they know they only have 1 point left they won't use it unless doing so indicates they are dead. If they realize they are at the climax of a mission they are more likely to pull through or use them more wisely.
3. It gives the players a lot more control over their characters than what the original rules would offer.
All of the players put an enormous amount of work into character development, there are no quickly rolled up characters. As a result of their hard work I try and work the Luck Points to their advantage in order to ensure that they get a lot of playability in return for their hard efforts. But regardless, I always allow the dice to fall as they may.
We have had plenty of deaths even still. Sometimes your down to one or two Luck Points at the beginning of the game and it makes you sweat the entire mission out. I haven't had a problem with players wasting their last point at the end of a game knowing that they can buy more as soon as it is over, primarily because I have good players. The few times this has happened, I stepped in as the Administrator.
The James Bond modules have been a combination of getting into a fight to soon and coming out on the bad end of it, or in most cases, the fight resulted from the PCs getting caught when they were trying to infiltrate the villain's mansion or lair.
In the adventure A View to a Kill I recall our character's getting separated during a chase. Eventually I went running through the wood trying to ditch some dogs that were chasing me and my partner was trying to get out of Zorin's chataeu another way.
I sometimes rewatch a Bond movie and write up a scenario using the movie as a guide. In Tommorrow Never Dies....our game began with the terrorists arms deal which became a huge fire fight and resulting injuries pulled us off the mission. A few years later I reintroduced the scenario from a different angle and we got further on the core plot, only to eventually have our boat blown up by Carver's stealth sub and are wet person's pulled out of the water and captured.
Most of my scenarios take many games to resolve. I never had one nighter missions. Once in a great while I'll have a mission that takes two marathon sessions to complete. I try and write them in a manner which allows breaks in between to allow for healing of injuries and new briefings. This allows the PCs to complete things a bit easier.
Been out of town--not ignoring you!
I work the Luck Points differently than the rules suggest by putting them in the hands of the players. Unlike the rules, I allow them to know how many points they have left. It provides advantages in a few ways.
All of the players put an enormous amount of work into character development, there are no quickly rolled up characters. As a result of their hard work I try and work the Luck Points to their advantage in order to ensure that they get a lot of playability in return for their hard efforts. But regardless, I always allow the dice to fall as they may.
That sounds like the way to go. Hero Points in the Victory Games rules worked much as you describe, and the games went exceptionally well.
The James Bond modules have been a combination of getting into a fight to soon and coming out on the bad end of it, or in most cases, the fight resulted from the PCs getting caught when they were trying to infiltrate the villain's mansion...
Have to admit, I never used the pregen modules; all the players had seen all the movies ad nauseum, so I made up all original scenarios, using ideas borrowed from other movies, literature, etc.
I'm the only BIG Bond fan so I don't have to worry to much about others knowing what lies ahead. My daughter knows some Bond (she gets bored with anything earlier than Pierce Brosnen) so when I use something I disguise it as best as I can.
So you were out of town? Secret mission I bet! Good to see you made it back alive.
So lets hear about folks' best Top Secret/S.I. adventure. How many games sessions does it usually take to complete a mission in your campaign? Anyone?
I'm glad to hear someone is still playing espionage games out there.
With no plans to stop. I just end up bouncing back and forth from Top Secret/S.I. and D&D over the years. now I'm making the fatal mistake of going for a 3rd game.....Stupid stupid, stupid! I'll be sorry in a year.
wow I used to play Top Secret and James Bond back in the 80's; both were a good time though we did more laughing and making wild quotes and mockery than anything; ah; the old days hehe; the best espionage game I played in was Dark Champions with the addition of the Ninja's and Superspy rules.
wow I used to play Top Secret and James Bond back in the 80's; both were a good time though we did more laughing and making wild quotes and mockery than anything; ah; the old days hehe; the best espionage game I played in was Dark Champions with the addition of the Ninja's and Superspy rules.
Our Top Secret/S.I. games have actually always been serious. I play the ORION/WEB conflict. I just wish that the game had not been discontinued and that the ORION/WEB conflict had been detailed out far better.
I played Tashiana Mao Ling, Codename Agent Emerald Dragon. She was a Kung Fu expert who used a ninja to, sai, shurikens, and crossbow, along with a few similar weapons. Everyone else used firearms. At ranged combat I had a big disadvantage, up close, well that was a different matter. She also had the ability to sneak up from behind and snap someone's neck. Her most memorable quote was used when things were getting serious. She would say "This isn't some James Bond movie, this is real life".
Ifa anyone want to play, I'm off this weekend. You'll have to buy your own plane ticket though, but I'll spring for the munchies (no pretzels however).
<PIMP> Modus Operandi </PIMP>
<PIMP> Modus Operandi </PIMP>
I've visted this site many times and gotten some downloads. Another one is The Spook
I would have liked to gotten involved on a forum with these sites but no one seems to ever be around.
I would have liked to gotten involved on a forum with these sites but no one seems to ever be around.
Work is the curse of the drinking class.
I would have liked to gotten involved on a forum with these sites but no one seems to ever be around.Work is the curse of the drinking class.
And I thought they were all out on missions and was wondering why I got left behind....was it something I said? Trust me...they need Agent Emerald Dragon!
Top Secret S.I. was a great game.
Admittedly, understandably, a lot of people loved the original so much that S.I. gets overlooked for its contributions.
That it’s impressiveness mechanically is not surprising. The primary name on it is Douglas Niles. Solid. This is the man who brought us the original Dungeoneer’s Survival Guide.
S.I. introduced us to Advantages and Disadvantages (feats and flaws), which although wasn’t really news to any GURPS fans, it was a big deal to TSR junkies at the time.
I also recall being impressed with S.I.’s nuanced approach to alignment. Anybody remember “no, low, some, high & total”? Instead of being good or evil, you got to rank your level of commitment to different concepts like Greed, Cruelty or Piety.
Finally, as cheesy as it was, “Operation Arrowhead” is a clinic in adventure design. Players can go almost anywhere they want in any order, but wherever they go they find clues hurling them back to one chapter or another. This is tough enough in a fantasy adventure, but in a game where the required level of realism is scaled-up, it’s even harder to pull off.
The Web/Orion background never quite did it for me, but that was just setting in a game that could handle a lot of different settings.
Great thread/ great game.
Top Secret S.I. was a great game.
That it’s impressiveness mechanically is not surprising.
We still play....we seem to bounce back and forth from Top Secret/S.I. to D&D every couple years or so.
So did you play the game straight as it's written (mechanically) or did you tinker with it a lot? What did you change/add/remove if anything?
One of my closest friends was a Top Secret junkie. That is until I exposed him to G.U.R.P.S. Ah, good times. Good times. At the time we were gaming we were both in the Army…at Fort Meade no less. This was during the early 90’s so the Cold War was still fresh in our mouth. Good times.
I've been lurking at the Spook and Modus Operandi, but they seem pretty empty. I was at a con last month, and saw "Casino Royale" (new one), and then I got jumped at the library by a big picture book of all the 007 films. Now I'm really jonesing for some spy games. What's out there, that's active?
Most of my current group won't touch anything not D&D with a 10' pole. {Sigh.} OK, my wife could, if only I could dig her out from under a mountain of work. And send the kids away. And finish the other one-on-one game we have pending. And so on.
I even went out and bought the one TS module I never had, to complete the collection.
As far as I know, Spycraft is the only thing that might still be active. If your not familiar with it it's a d20 version for espionage. Me, I go Top Secret/S.I. all the way. I was disappointed that new books weren't coming out but with all the writing I did for the rules for our home campaign it more than kept me going. It's a shame your gaming frieds can't get past D&D. Other games active or not have a lot to offer. So which module did you finally find that was missing from your collection?
Seventh Seal was the last one for me. I also got the last Twilight:2k module I never had.
Sorry for the desperate-whiny tone of that last post, it's been a long week without gaming.
I read someone's review of Spycraft, that sounds workable to me. Once this blizzard goes away, I think I will check out the bulletin board at my FLGS. My often-hazy memory says there was something with that logo on the "players wanted" board.
That was the last module I picked up as well. The Ace of Clubs module I also found elusive but eventaully acquired. I did run the module and we had a pretty successful time with it. I always tried to tie it into the campaign better than the actual adventure was written. What did you think of the Top Secret/S.I. modules?
The Ace of Clubs module I also found elusive but eventaully acquired. I did run the module and we had a pretty successful time with it. I always tried to tie it into the campaign better than the actual adventure was written. What did you think of the Top Secret/S.I. modules?I don't think I've ever run "Ace," but I bought it when it was new.
I actually only filled out my collection of the old TS modules, I only have three of the SI ones-- the trio set on the island of San Cristobal. So far, I've used parts of the scenarios for other games, some of which were fun. One of them had a really basic flaw that I didn't even catch-- it starts with a body washed up on the beach with a lot of money in a locked briefcase. I don't remember any more details, other than one player asking, "if someone killed this guy for the money, why didn't they take teh briefcase?"
My memory may be foggy, but if I recall correctly, he wasn't killed for the money, but still, you'd think someone would have checked out the briefcase before throwing him overboard. Good point. I errored on my last post. I meant to say I eventaully found Ace of Cluns as well but it was Seventh Seal that I ran. Ace of Clubs looks difficult to run in regards to the PCs running around picking up clues. I have always meant to use it but just never got that far. I kinda pictured the bad guys (in my campaign I use the ORION/WEB from Top Secret/S.I.) infiltrating the place,and towards the end coming in with a couple of boats and helicopters in order to wipe the place out. The PCs would be some of the first agents on the scene and be responsible for fighting the WEB off in the center of the base. Who knows, maybe it will still happen.
I thought the Top Secret/S.I. module Doomsday Drop was good as well. Do you have Brushfire Wars? If your PCs like combat its pretty much a must. I would think it would work well with either version of the game.
What's out there, that's active?
If your group refuses to leave d20 behind, d20 Modern, Spycraft, True20 and even Mutants and Masterminds with Agents of Freedom.
For groups willing to branch out a little, G.U.R.P.S. has always served me well for espionage. Dark Champions is also good for espionage despite people believing it is for street level super heroes only.
If you want to go more indie, Savage Worlds and even Spirit of the Century with a little tweaking. I am sure there are more out there. These are just the ones I know of personally.
Nope, I do not have either Brushfire Wars or Doomsday drop. I probably looked at them, my FLGS had a fire-sale on SI modules years ago, that's how I got the 3 that I have.
I think my players have moved away from war-fighting games. I'm a wargamer as well, and some say they don't want to challenge me on that turf.
For myself, I find combat-heavy modules (either dungeon crawls like Rapidstrike! or wars) easy to put together, it's the investigative ones like Ace of Clubs that are hard to get or write.
The investigative plots are always the hardest to work with. I find they flow better with a variety of investigation, roleplaying encounters, and combat rather than trying to concentrate on just investigative like Ace of Clubs did. This is exactly the reason why I have yet to actually run the module. That, and it included a lot of little things that didn't advance the plot so I tend to want to eliminate those things as well. For example, all the little one sentance twists NPCs got, such as diamond smuggling, members of another organization, etc. These do nothing but throw the module off in my opinion so unless it is important for the actual plot, I throw it out.
My Administrative style of running Top Secret/S.I. is mostly geared towards plot. I write most of my own adventures and they are usually outlined versions (never have time to finish a complete text like you'd see in a module) and they still reach 15-25 pages in length. What I do is come up with the plot (that's usually the hardest thing). I then build a series of encounters around it allowing it to head a general direction forward.
The briefing (which is usually where I start) allows the PCs to investigate 1-2 angles (sometimes 3 directions). The direction they choose is written so that it leads to another couple of other angles as well as back to the one they didn't take in their briefing. The new angle they check out leads to a couple of more as well as back to those they skipped, and so on. Everything kinda works in a circle or flow chart if you will. I would say that 2 out of 3 encounters are designed to have an optional combat sequence take place. by optional, I mean it takes place if the PCs choose a particular direction when investigating things. If they choose a different method, often times combat doesn't result.
Most of my homemade plots take about 5-6 playing sessions to complete. They are a combination of combat and investigative built around story. When I first starting running the game I was pushed to come up with anything more than 1 combat encounter. Eventually, I got better at the game and went from 1 combat encounter to a page of plot, to a few pages, to adventures which were longer than those published.
The Brushfire Wars module I really liked. It is a series of short adventures which are para military oriented but work well for your standard spy group as well. They are great for moments when the Admin doesn't have anything really prepared. For this reason alone, I recommend picking it up. The Top Secret/S.I. modules are written from more of a plot driven point of view than the original Top Secret modules. Although I did enjoy the Top Secret modules we played, I had to tie them into the current plot I was playing rather than just have the module be a solo adventure unto itself. This allowed me to detail out a part of my bigger adventure and at the same time, use the module and tie it in with my current villain and story line. I would also try and make "key" encounters for each PC to shine (not all the time, just once in a great while). This helps make use of those skills they took that rarely get used. For example, one character had an education in archeaology, so I included a couple of plots which delved into the ancient histories of mankind.
The other thing I have done for borrowing plots is to watch a move and take notes. Then I rewrite it for the game. Did this with James Bond quite a bit though I found the plots got very long from a game point a view and I had to incorporate breaks for the PCs to heal. In order to do this I would allow for a timeline delays after a big combat sequence or reintroduce things with another briefing, so kinda like breaking the movie down into a couple of related plots rather than one whole adventure.
Doh! Sorry. Hero Games’ Dark Champions forum seems pretty active. I see activity in four threads today and six this week.
They are open to non-system specific questions. If they give you any grief send them my way and I will set them straight.
Anyone ever play Top Secret/S.I., if so what was your experience like?That's classified.
It is only Confidential.
What did you think of the Top Secret/S.I. modules?
Most of the original Top Secret modules were more sourcebooks with a suggested plot attached, which proved quite useful. Lady in Distress detailed a cruise ship, Orient Express trains, and Ace of Clubs a luxury resort. I used the fold-out train maps from Orient Express in several other modern-day games over the years.
I played Top Secret until the Avalon Hill James Bond 007 game came out, then switched to hat and played the stuffing out of it for several years. That game's movie-reimagined adventures set a high water mark for adventure design that took a long time to beat, and made the Top Secret modules look shabby and ill-conceived by comparison.
I enjoyed Avalon Hill’s James Bond 007 game too. I even used it for Supers campaigns before I got into the DC Roleplaying Game.