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Basically, you expend action points to get a bonus on a d20 roll or to re-use class features when you have run out of uses per day. The idea was first mooted in UA and later taken up, in less game-breaking form, as official to the Eberron setting. A character gets a certain number of points based on their level, which replenish at levelling-up.
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I would suggest not using the UA rules in the SRD but using the Eberron rules instead. Action points can have a big impact on character action success at critical moments (what they are for after all) but the SRD rules are VERY generous as to what they can be used for. This could have a very major impact on your game. See if you can get the Eberron version of the the action point rules to compare and contrast before you make a decision.
Due to the ability of an action point to influence a die roll, they're a useful resource for a player. Sometimes you have a really tough roll to make that spells out doom. The player will most likely spend an action point to get an edge. Maybe you've been fighting through demons all morning and you've found their summoner. One more use of smite evil would be nice, wouldn't it? Action points allow for more dramatic situations that still permit the players a choice in how things turn out without bogging down play. That's been our observation in our ongoing Eberron campaign. I have to admit, I like them just because we can't all be lucky enough to roll well all the time and they're nice to have for those tough fights.
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Due to the ability of an action point to influence a die roll, they're a useful resource for a player. Sometimes you have a really tough roll to make that spells out doom. The player will most likely spend an action point to get an edge. Maybe you've been fighting through demons all morning and you've found their summoner. One more use of smite evil would be nice, wouldn't it? Action points allow for more dramatic situations that still permit the players a choice in how things turn out without bogging down play. That's been our observation in our ongoing Eberron campaign. I have to admit, I like them just because we can't all be lucky enough to roll well all the time and they're nice to have for those tough fights.
What it made me think is that a whole heap of the cool roleplaying i've been involved in has come from characters getting into trouble and having to run away, hide, talk there way out of it, etc. etc.
I can't help but see them limiting the drama - you've got a dramatic make or break roll, everyone's on their seat, watching the die, you pull out an extra die... everyone sits back down, grabs a coke and waits for you to claim the inevitable victory - drama banished.
That extra smite might be nice, but Escape From The Demon Lord's Dungeon is probably more exciting.
hehe next you will want to know what taint points are hehe
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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They also make for good rewards for acting heroic and the character type.
"Ok, I made my reflex save, no damage due to evasion. I'll stand up, draw a carving knife off the table, and move the ambasador behind me. 'You'll be safe here m'lady.'"
"Give yourself an Action point out of petty cash."
Due to the ability of an action point to influence a die roll, they're a useful resource for a player. Sometimes you have a really tough roll to make that spells out doom. The player will most likely spend an action point to get an edge. Maybe you've been fighting through demons all morning and you've found their summoner. One more use of smite evil would be nice, wouldn't it? Action points allow for more dramatic situations that still permit the players a choice in how things turn out without bogging down play. That's been our observation in our ongoing Eberron campaign. I have to admit, I like them just because we can't all be lucky enough to roll well all the time and they're nice to have for those tough fights.What it made me think is that a whole heap of the cool roleplaying i've been involved in has come from characters getting into trouble and having to run away, hide, talk there way out of it, etc. etc.
I can't help but see them limiting the drama - you've got a dramatic make or break roll, everyone's on their seat, watching the die, you pull out an extra die... everyone sits back down, grabs a coke and waits for you to claim the inevitable victory - drama banished.
That extra smite might be nice, but Escape From The Demon Lord's Dungeon is probably more exciting.
They're most fun when you see the die roll and think, "OK, I missed it by 3 points. Do I want to burn the action point to make the Tumble check to get past the goons and leap at the ambassador to bring him down, or do I think I'll blow it anyway?" Their usefulness will vary based on the campaign, as always.
Thanks for the update, I didn't know they were in the SRD (i find what i've read from UA pretty underwhelming).
Rules for action points not in the SRD. They were posted on d20srd.org because the rules in UA were published under the OGL. Note that d20srd.org is not the official d20srd site. Ultimately, though, the effect is the same except that the author of d20srd.org includes errata.
When a DM with Action Points, if the player don´t narrate a cool action scene with the use of the action point, it´s bonus is canceled and the point is spended. Awesome for creative over the top action scenes by the players.
I tried that and the players just got sloppy about their descriptions. :(
I thought about sticking to the rule, but it seemed like it would be less fun acting as dictator than just enjoying the game as is.
Also bear in mind that the writers of 4th edition have stated that they are coming up with a new version of Action Points.
My personal experience with APs in several different game systems is that they are an odd commodity. If the PCs have enough of them to rely upon throughout their adventuring career, they can seriously take the edge of the risks involved in making die rolls. "Sure, I'll try to jump across the chasm. If I blow the roll, I can just burn some action points."
On the other hand, once they've gotten used to them, the consequences of running out are seemingly dire--the PCs become afraid to move or do anything even remotely risky. "Are you crazy? Climb a rope? I'm outta action points, man. I could die!"
We'll see what the new rules look like in June.
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I thought about sticking to the rule, but it seemed like it would be less fun acting as dictator than just enjoying the game as is.
Well, around here we don´t get too stick with rules anyway, it´s a momentum thing. Sometimes we enforce it, sometimes we don´t even want to hear about it. Rules are seen as guidelines and the DM is more of a director of the show than a judge, so he has the trust of the players that he will do a good work playing by his vision of the game.
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We use two different versions of action points in my gaming group. In the campaign I run, we use the Eberron style where the players get half their level+5. All they can do is modify d20 rolls or be used to stabilize if you drop below 0 HP. The campaign is pretty intense (AoW), so AP are used often.
In the other campaign, which my friend runs, we use the UA alternative rules but the number of AP are severely limited. You only get 3 to start and gain one more per level with no reset. You can do a heck of a lot more with them (I love to emulate feats myself), but you get a lot fewer. Players end up hoarding AP like treasure and only spend them when it really matters.
Both options make the game fun, but lend a different feel to the game.
The basic action point rules are in the d20 modern SRD (that is were the rules originated).
I do use a few of the rules from UA. Namely allowing spellcasters to spend action points to get a spell or spell slot back or the extra use of a class ability. i also allow the use of an action point to negate a critical (which must be used before the confirmation roll).
One thing about action points, you can normally only spend 1 in a round. Negating a possible crit prevents you from adding to an attack roll later that round.
In Eberron, you get 5 + half your level in actions and the pool refreshes when you level up. Unspent action points are lost. By allowing uses beyond the bonus to a d20 roll, the points will get spend faster. Eberron includes a number of feats that are powered by action points for that reason.
Also, Major villans can have them. Eberron "requires" NPCs to have a feat in order to get 3 action points, though you can rule that major villains get the same bonus as PCs if you want to. Im makes for an interesting fight when during a possible Critical Hit on the BBEG gets negated by an action point.
Considering Star Wars Saga Edition is an "extensive preview" of fourth edition, I'm willing to bet action points will work just like force points.
Which work just like Eberron's action points.
I would suggest not using the UA rules in the SRD but using the Eberron rules instead....
They're really the same thing. i prefer to use the UA rules, myself, because I rarely play in Eberron, and it would be dumb to use a different Campaign setting's rules if I didn't have to.
Personally, I think al;l DMs should use Ap. They give a great feel. Picture this:
DM: "Suddenly, three arrows sprout out of the body of your raven familiar, Ishmail."
Wizard: "My character gasps. He stares at the body of his beloved raven, and then, with a shout of fury, though he is no melee warrior, charges at the goblin who killed his friend. I roll... an 11. However, the charge adds a +2 bonus, he spent an action point, which adds... a +6, and with his normal bonus of +4... he gets a +12. Does he hit?"
DM: "He does."
ya see what I mean? AP are the work of a mastermind. Actually, they're the work Andy Collins, Jesse Decker, David Newnen,. and Rich Redmen, since they're the ones who wrote UA, and UA came before Eberron. anyways, AP are great for important moments. I highly recommend using them.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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It depends on what kind of reality you're trying to simulate in your game. Does something get easier simply because it's important?
Does the DM just jack up the DC of a critical skill roll, or the AC of a dangerous foe, by +5 to compensate for the inevitable flurry of Action Points being spent on it?
One of my favorite "action points" games was the very first edition of TOP SECRET, where you got one "fame point" per level, and 1-6 "fortune points," which never replenished. You could spend them to prevent damage, etc. But you never knew when... your fortune would run out.
Hero Points were an esential game mechanic in the JAMES BOND role-playing game, and served all sorts of useful functions, from making rolls easier to simply altering reality in simple ways. ("You find a car," ...Hero Point... "with the keys still in the ignition.")
MARVEL SUPER-HEROES has Karma Points. CALL OF C'THULHU doesn't. As I said, it depends on the reality you're trying to simulate.
And then there's TORG / MASTERBOOK. Where playing advantage cards, and special cards like "Ally", which only give someone else an advantage, is an essential part of the mechanics.
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Does the DM just jack up the DC of a critical skill roll, or the AC of a dangerous foe, by +5 to compensate for the inevitable flurry of Action Points being spent on it?
No, because then AP become worthless. If encounter Y requires Action Points, and the players used their AP in X, then the party is screwed. Encounters should not be designed for parties/players that Min/Max every possibility.
...It depends on what kind of reality you're trying to simulate in your game. Does something get easier simply because it's important...
This is my motto, which I copied from someone else: 'The game is a game. The definition of 'game' is not dice.'
What I mean is, don't let nasty dice rolls get in the way of a heroic moment. When the wizard's familiar dies, you don't want the wizard to run at the goblin and trip on his shoelace. You don't want him to drop his sword. At this moment, this is the most serious game ever made. It is not a comedy.
I can understand why action points are fun and even necessary with some styles of play. But mandatory, no way.
And though I would sympathize with the mage losing his familiar he shouldn't charge unless he has no spells and probably not even then. It would be fitting if he ended up impaled for playing into the goblin's strengths and forgoing his own.
Get revenge, get even? By all means. Charge into melee if he has little skill in melee? Have fun dieing. It would be like the fighter throwing rocks because he is angry instead of using his bow or instead of just walking up and cleaving the thing in half.
In my opinion action points should be used fro something critical. Like not dying, breaking the wand of orcus or like things.
I'm using them to an extent - I highly suggest you *reduce* the number of points a bit, if only at first.
In one game I'm giving 3-4 per level. In another I'm using them as reward points (in card form), so far rarer.
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Personally, I think al;l DMs should use Ap. They give a great feel. Picture this:
DM: "Suddenly, three arrows sprout out of the body of your raven familiar, Ishmail."
Wizard: "My character gasps. He stares at the body of his beloved raven, and then, with a shout of fury, though he is no melee warrior, charges at the goblin who killed his friend. I roll... an 11. However, the charge adds a +2 bonus, he spent an action point, which adds... a +6, and with his normal bonus of +4... he gets a +12. Does he hit?"
DM: "He does."
To me, that sounds like a glorious, beautiful role-playing moment that has been ruined by action points.
What's the point of an overwhelming emotional response that shows the depth of your character's feeling and reaction if you transform it into a useful barbarian-style rage?
If Leonidas had used action points to save himself and his men at Thermopylae would we still be celebrating it today? - the more i hear, the more I think that Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card should be left in Monopoly where they belong.
Hero Points were an esential game mechanic in the JAMES BOND role-playing game, and served all sorts of useful functions, from making rolls easier to simply altering reality in simple ways. ("You find a car," ...Hero Point... "with the keys still in the ignition.")
Dude, those were the best RPG rules ever! If only character advancement hadn't been so daggone slow (a downer for many players), I'd probably still be converting Dungeon adventures to those rules today.
We're using Action Points (from UA) in our AOW game, and they've really added to it, IMHO. You roll the AP dice BEFORE the d20, so success isn't assured. To balance player AP's, named NPC's and BBEGs also get them.
I can understand why action points are fun and even necessary with some styles of play. But mandatory, no way.
And though I would sympathize with the mage losing his familiar he shouldn't charge unless he has no spells and probably not even then. It would be fitting if he ended up impaled for playing into the goblin's strengths and forgoing his own.
Get revenge, get even? By all means. Charge into melee if he has little skill in melee? Have fun dieing. It would be like the fighter throwing rocks because he is angry instead of using his bow or instead of just walking up and cleaving the thing in half.
The wizard running into melee even though he shouldn't is called 'good roleplaying'. If your best friend, who was tied to you through magic and was like a brother to you had died, would you say, 'Hmm, I think I shall cast a spell'? i think it's likely that you would be in severe shock, and wopuld wish to personaly wring the neck of the goblin that did this to him. you have a point, though. I think there should be a varient familiar that is more closely tied to you and so you get a bunch of neat abilities, but if he dies, you die, and vice versa. I think I need to work on that, though...
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The wizard running into melee even though he shouldn't is called 'good roleplaying'. If your best friend, who was tied to you through magic and was like a brother to you had died, would you say, 'Hmm, I think I shall cast a spell'? i think it's likely that you would be in severe shock, and wopuld wish to personaly wring the neck of the goblin that did this to him. you have a point, though. I think there should be a varient familiar that is more closely tied to you and so you get a bunch of neat abilities, but if he dies, you die, and vice versa. I think I need to work on that, though...
** spoiler omitted **
I'm finding myself taking your side here.
If I used Action/Hero Points, I would award one for this kind of play...
Take my PbP druid's Donkey Rat animal companion for example. ..if anything every happend to Gloam, Caerival would utterly loose it - even if it means getting my character unnecessarily killed. That's just how I role (not roll).
I love donkey rats!
'Come on, Eeore!'
'Heesawe'!
...
...What? What do you think donkey rats sound like?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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The wizard running into melee even though he shouldn't is called 'good roleplaying'. If your best friend, who was tied to you through magic and was like a brother to you had died, would you say, 'Hmm, I think I shall cast a spell'? i think it's likely that you would be in severe shock, and wopuld wish to personaly wring the neck of the goblin that did this to him. you have a point, though. I think there should be a varient familiar that is more closely tied to you and so you get a bunch of neat abilities, but if he dies, you die, and vice versa. I think I need to work on that, though...
** spoiler omitted **
I agree with you. The same wizard might focus that pain and rage (ala Dresden) into his fireball (spend an AP to maximize it).
How about this for a movie version of action points. The death of Boromir. He's burning action points every round to emulate the die hard Feat.
Yeah, I remember reading about the 'Diehard' feat, and thinking, 'Borimeer had that.' Pity Borimeer couldn't aim for the archers...
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The wizard running into melee even though he shouldn't is called 'good roleplaying'. If your best friend, who was tied to you through magic and was like a brother to you had died, would you say, 'Hmm, I think I shall cast a spell'? i think it's likely that you would be in severe shock, and wopuld wish to personaly wring the neck of the goblin that did this to him. you have a point, though. I think there should be a varient familiar that is more closely tied to you and so you get a bunch of neat abilities, but if he dies, you die, and vice versa. I think I need to work on that, though...
** spoiler omitted **I'm finding myself taking your side here.
If I used Action/Hero Points, I would award one for this kind of play...
Take my PbP druid's Donkey Rat animal companion for example. ..if anything every happend to Gloam, Caerival would utterly loose it - even if it means getting my character unnecessarily killed. That's just how I role (not roll).
But doesn't it undermine the moment (so stricken with grief that he stops caring whether he lives or dies) if he can trick his way out of it (well, actually - he's not going to be taking a risk really, because he's got Action Points...)
I wouldn't award Action Points for the roleplaying, I'd award XP.
What I'm saying is that DRAMATIC TENSION REQUIRES THE GENUINE FEAR OF FAILURE your Paladin nobly putting his life on the line, the rogue who just can't resist an extra grab for that treasure... where's the thrill if he's got a get-out-of-jail-free card stuck in his back pocket?
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They're really the same thing. i prefer to use the UA rules, myself, because I rarely play in Eberron, and it would be dumb to use a different Campaign setting's rules if I didn't have to.
From what I understand, you can use UA action points for much more. A player did a recent comparison and I was somewhat surprised by the breadth of use for the UA action point scheme.
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The wizard running into melee even though he shouldn't is called 'good roleplaying'. If your best friend, who was tied to you through magic and was like a brother to you had died, would you say, 'Hmm, I think I shall cast a spell'? i think it's likely that you would be in severe shock, and wopuld wish to personaly wring the neck of the goblin that did this to him. you have a point, though. I think there should be a varient familiar that is more closely tied to you and so you get a bunch of neat abilities, but if he dies, you die, and vice versa. I think I need to work on that, though...
** spoiler omitted **I'm finding myself taking your side here.
If I used Action/Hero Points, I would award one for this kind of play...
Take my PbP druid's Donkey Rat animal companion for example. ..if anything every happend to Gloam, Caerival would utterly loose it - even if it means getting my character unnecessarily killed. That's just how I role (not roll).
But doesn't it undermine the moment (so stricken with grief that he stops caring whether he lives or dies) if he can trick his way out of it (well, actually - he's not going to be taking a risk really, because he's got Action Points...)
I wouldn't award Action Points for the roleplaying, I'd award XP.
What I'm saying is that DRAMATIC TENSION REQUIRES THE GENUINE FEAR OF FAILURE your Paladin nobly putting his life on the line, the rogue who just can't resist an extra grab for that treasure... where's the thrill if he's got a get-out-of-jail-free card stuck in his back pocket?
There is still fear of failure. Action points are not a guarantee of success. But it might make a player more likely to attempt a crazy or interesting action if he has some chance of success, rather than playing the numbers and playing conservatively.
And APs have ZERO effect on roleplaying - that is down to the players and DM and their style. It simply makes unlikely rolls more likely. (And I very much believe that the d20 and the action point dice should be rolled together - the AP should be a risk, not to top up an existing roll.)
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There is still fear of failure. Action points are not a guarantee of success. But it might make a player more likely to attempt a crazy or interesting action if he has some chance of success, rather than playing the numbers and playing conservatively.And APs have ZERO effect on roleplaying - that is down to the players and DM...
Maybe I'm being a bit hysterical, next i'll be screaming; "4e is a computer game!"
I do actually tend to incentivise bold heroics by handing out XP for them, and sometimes i'll fudge the DC...
Perhaps I should play with them before I get a cob on - sorry.
Te way I see it, AP are a way to avoid having to fudge it just because, say, it would be anti-climatic. AP make it so that you have a slightly better chance.
Action Points are a LOUSY departure from the tradition of the 1st and 2nd editions of the d&d game. There are no Save or Die situations under such a policy, unless you've spent all your points, which most players will avoid.
Given the addition of Action Points, to all the Splatbooks available for 3.5, it's just ONE MORE NAIL IN EVERY GM's COFFIN. As if it isn't hard enough to waste your player's characters FAIRLY AND ACCORDING TO THE RULES, now you want to give them Action Points. To all GM's, HOLD FIRM, DON'T ALLOW THE ACTION POINTS. It's a bad policy that should never have seen the light of day in the d&d game!
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Feh,
If I'm power attacking trying to take down the bad guy before he kills my rogue, dang straight I'm going to burn the Action Point.
That additiona 1d6 or 2d6 on the roll, using the UA rules, is not an absolute success.
To say it negates save or dies is wrong on its face, and shows an ignorance of the system overall.