On the cover of Issue #358. It states on the top "Ultimate Penultimate: 2 Issues Left"
Well math would be 358 + 2 = 360.
Then in the First Watch area of the mag it says that the final issue would be #359. That would lend the belief that there is only 1 issue left. So the question is which part of the editing department dropped the ball?
Now before anyone says anything in the difference of this idiocy I guess I will cut you off. If you had 1 ball (#358) in your hand and I told you had 2 more draws in the bowl of balls and you drew another (#359). I then take the bowl away and said "Okay, you're done". You would retort "I have another draw". You would be right and NO one would question it; however, I guess the people at Paizo Publishing see this kind of practice normal? I find it outrageous.
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Dude-why so angry? At least, why is your anger pointed at Paizo? It's not their fault--if it were up to them, I would guess that they would like to give you as many more draws from the bowl as you want. They're not the ones shutting this thing down.
I read it like James explained--that makes sense from a publisher's point of view, when they are attempting to get the attention of random people walking through a bookstore or hobby shop. Nobody dropped the ball, and accusing the Paizo folks of idiocy is a bit much. Calm down and just enjoy what little we have left of Dragon.
Makes sense to me.
Dude-why so angry? At least, why is your anger pointed at Paizo? It's not their fault--if it were up to them, I would guess that they would like to give you as many more draws from the bowl as you want. They're not the ones shutting this thing down.
I read it like James explained--that makes sense from a publisher's point of view, when they are attempting to get the attention of random people walking through a bookstore or hobby shop. Nobody dropped the ball, and accusing the Paizo folks of idiocy is a bit much. Calm down and just enjoy what little we have left of Dragon.
What company does the editing? That is the fault of that company.
I don't see it how James explained as I find that deceitful and what not. As with my example with the draws from the bowl would be a perfect example. Following that logic (being the only one that makes sense) made me question what was going on.
The next question would be since in the previews of the issue #359 it said it would be a super size issue. Is that because it will be filled with more Game Mastery or Pathfinder ads?
Is that because it will be filled with more Game Mastery or Pathfinder ads?
Hopefully both.
All good reasons to be abusive. Let's take James out and have him flogged!
>=(
All good reasons to be abusive. Let's take James out and have him flogged!
>=(
Yes, we should give James the penultimate flogging too... Wait, how many floggings would that be, ELAzalin???
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What company does the editing? That is the fault of that company.I don't see it how James explained as I find that deceitful and what not. As with my example with the draws from the bowl would be a perfect example. Following that logic (being the only one that makes sense) made me question what was going on.
The next question would be since in the previews of the issue #359 it said it would be a super size issue. Is that because it will be filled with more Game Mastery or Pathfinder ads?
No. Your logic is not the only one that makes sense. There are only two issues left, THIS ONE and one other. How does that not make sense?
If that doesn’t work for you, look up “penultimate”. And take a deep breath and calm down before you next accuse people of being deceitful.
What company does the editing? That is the fault of that company.I don't see it how James explained as I find that deceitful and what not. As with my example with the draws from the bowl would be a perfect example. Following that logic (being the only one that makes sense) made me question what was going on.
The next question would be since in the previews of the issue #359 it said it would be a super size issue. Is that because it will be filled with more Game Mastery or Pathfinder ads?
No. Your logic is not the only one that makes sense. There are only two issues left, THIS ONE and one other. How does that not make sense?
If that doesn’t work for you, look up “penultimate”. And take a deep breath and calm down before you next accuse people of being deceitful.
It means - Next to the last.
Then you say 2 left. So if you use Penultimate you are counting (current issue as that would be "next to last") then you have 1 LEFT not 2 of them as you only have the LAST one left. I guess it seems some people haven't receive a higher education and developed skills in critical thinking.
Is that because it will be filled with more Game Mastery or Pathfinder ads?Hopefully both.
Waste of space. I never read ads as it seems recently Dragon has been covered with self-serving ads more and more.
So basically I look at it as this.. Next month my last Dragon and the following month my refund check. Good to know it will end soon, one would guess.
Now just have to find the remaining 12-15 issues and I have them all in hard copy.
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Contributor
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What company does the editing? That is the fault of that company.
Um... you're on the messageboards of that company, accusing it of being deceitful.
Is that because it will be filled with more Game Mastery or Pathfinder ads?
It will be bigger because it will have more pages. It looks like there will be roughly the same number of house ads in #359 as there was in #358.
...
As to your first point, penultimate means second to last. Second = two. Thus, two issues left (#358 and #359).
Then you say 2 left. So if you use Penultimate you are counting (current issue as that would be "next to last") then you have 1 LEFT not 2 of them as you only have the LAST one left. I guess it seems some people haven't receive a higher education and developed skills in critical thinking.
Oh my, we must be having a very bad day. Seems to me, if four people are telling you that it can be looked at another way, the proper thing to do would be to perhaps take a step back and try to look at it another way. We are all upset over the fact that our beloved mags are leaving us, and yes, we all wish there could be just one more, anger and accusations never solved anything, and certainly doesn't make you friends on these boards. And trust me, the last thing you want to do is accuse people here of not being educated, really, trust me on this.
Now, just relax, life goes on dude.
What company does the editing? That is the fault of that company.Um... you're on the messageboards of that company, accusing it of being deceitful.
Is that because it will be filled with more Game Mastery or Pathfinder ads?It will be bigger because it will have more pages. It looks like there will be roughly the same number of house ads in #359 as there was in #358.
...
As to your first point, penultimate means second to last. Second = two. Thus, two issues left (#358 and #359).
Like I said it seems deceitful as because of the wording (or lack there of editing). I could of used much stronger term if you wished but I didn't find it truly necessary.
To correct you check out what Webster says - http://mw1.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/penultimate
Like I stated - "next to the last"
This issue (#358) seems like a lot of house ads than normally in a issue.
I'm truly sad to see my old friend no longer being sent to my house each month. I have about 450-500 issues (many duplicates) and only missing a little over a dozen in hard copy. I just wish it didn't have to end this way. But seriously how many "divorces" end up being friends afterwards or part on good company?
Its all moot... 1 more issue and refund check ...
Creative Director
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I'm sorry the cover lines caused confusion, but I can guarantee that wasn't the goal. In a lot of ways, the cover for a magazine isn't for regular readers of its content, though; the cover's primary job is to grab NEW readers from the newsstand. Someone who doesn't follow the magazine or who hasn't read an issue for months or years might very well not know that there's only 2 issues left (the one he's looking at and the one that comes after); it's him or her that the cover's talking to.
So it absolutely wasn't an attempt to trick or deceive you. It was an attempt to catch the attention of those lapsed or new readers, to let them know that they've got only 2 chances left to read Dragon in its magazine incarnation. It's not an editing error, though. Trust me. I've made enough of those myself to recognize them.
On the cover of Issue #358. It states on the top "Ultimate Penultimate: 2 Issues Left"
Well math would be 358 + 2 = 360.
Then in the First Watch area of the mag it says that the final issue would be #359. That would lend the belief that there is only 1 issue left. So the question is which part of the editing department dropped the ball?
Now before anyone says anything in the difference of this idiocy I guess I will cut you off. If you had 1 ball (#358) in your hand and I told you had 2 more draws in the bowl of balls and you drew another (#359). I then take the bowl away and said "Okay, you're done". You would retort "I have another draw". You would be right and NO one would question it; however, I guess the people at Paizo Publishing see this kind of practice normal? I find it outrageous.
Could you please cite some of the brilliant literary works which you have edited since you seem to know so much about the process? While you're looking up words in Webster, see if you can find the definition of a TROLL.
BTW, rude and condescending posts beget rude and condescending posts. One of the first things you learn on messageboard forums. IMO, the Paizo staff were much more polite in responding to you than you deserve, but the fact that they did and showed remarkable restraint considering your tone should tell you the quality of people you're slinging mud at.-------------------------------
Steve Greer
Making friends on the Paizo boards since 2004.
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Then you say 2 left. So if you use Penultimate you are counting (current issue as that would be "next to last") then you have 1 LEFT not 2 of them as you only have the LAST one left. I guess it seems some people haven't receive a higher education and developed skills in critical thinking.
It should be "haven't received."
*Sigh*
On the cover of Issue #358. It states on the top "Ultimate Penultimate: 2 Issues Left"
Well math would be 358 + 2 = 360.
Then in the First Watch area of the mag it says that the final issue would be #359. That would lend the belief that there is only 1 issue left. So the question is which part of the editing department dropped the ball?
Now before anyone says anything in the difference of this idiocy I guess I will cut you off. If you had 1 ball (#358) in your hand and I told you had 2 more draws in the bowl of balls and you drew another (#359). I then take the bowl away and said "Okay, you're done". You would retort "I have another draw". You would be right and NO one would question it; however, I guess the people at Paizo Publishing see this kind of practice normal? I find it outrageous.
Me am completely agreeing with you. Funny words on cover make Bizzarro head hurt, and me not know that 2 not mean three. Not know what pinesulment mean either.
Bizzarro also thrilled that funny man type response talking about his balls.
Bizzarro finally wish to say that funny man not have cranium shoved in orifice that is dark, smelly, and hard to get head in.
Bizzarro think you have good point and are best poster ever at Paizo boards.
I'm sorry the cover lines caused confusion, but I can guarantee that wasn't the goal. In a lot of ways, the cover for a magazine isn't for regular readers of its content, though; the cover's primary job is to grab NEW readers from the newsstand. Someone who doesn't follow the magazine or who hasn't read an issue for months or years might very well not know that there's only 2 issues left (the one he's looking at and the one that comes after); it's him or her that the cover's talking to.
So it absolutely wasn't an attempt to trick or deceive you. It was an attempt to catch the attention of those lapsed or new readers, to let them know that they've got only 2 chances left to read Dragon in its magazine incarnation. It's not an editing error, though. Trust me. I've made enough of those myself to recognize them.
Thank you for that; however, even if I was picking up this mag for the first time it would still mean the same. Another example below.
Lets take the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
5 is the last on the list.
4 is next to last (or first to last)
3 is SECOND to last (as one of your company people said that he believes the meaning of Penultimate is "second to last"
2 ...
1 ...
I was a little insulted by the cover and the "word choice" that was used so I posted about it.
On the cover of Issue #358. It states on the top "Ultimate Penultimate: 2 Issues Left"
Well math would be 358 + 2 = 360.
Then in the First Watch area of the mag it says that the final issue would be #359. That would lend the belief that there is only 1 issue left. So the question is which part of the editing department dropped the ball?
Now before anyone says anything in the difference of this idiocy I guess I will cut you off. If you had 1 ball (#358) in your hand and I told you had 2 more draws in the bowl of balls and you drew another (#359). I then take the bowl away and said "Okay, you're done". You would retort "I have another draw". You would be right and NO one would question it; however, I guess the people at Paizo Publishing see this kind of practice normal? I find it outrageous.
Could you please cite some of the brilliant literary works which you have edited since you seem to know so much about the process? While you're looking up words in Webster, see if you can find the definition of a TROLL.
BTW, rude and condescending posts beget rude and condescending posts. One of the first things you learn on messageboard forums. IMO, the Paizo staff were much more polite in responding to you than you deserve, but the fact that they did and showed remarkable restraint considering your tone should tell you the quality of people you're slinging mud at.
-------------------------------
Steve Greer
Making friends on the Paizo boards since 2004.
Pretty much what you did correct?
It should be "haven't received."
Then you say 2 left. So if you use Penultimate you are counting (current issue as that would be "next to last") then you have 1 LEFT not 2 of them as you only have the LAST one left. I guess it seems some people haven't receive a higher education and developed skills in critical thinking.
Trying to find a word that would of lent meaning to actually the past tense and current and just went with one. Yours lent it to past tense and not current.
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Thank you for that; however, even if I was picking up this mag for the first time it would still mean the same. Another example below.Lets take the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
5 is the last on the list.
4 is next to last (or first to last)
3 is SECOND to last (as one of your company people said that he believes the meaning of Penultimate is "second to last"
2 ...
1 ...I was a little insulted by the cover and the "word choice" that was used so I posted about it.
I have never heard the term "first to last". Now THAT doesn't make sense to me ... I don't know maybe I'm wrong.
To me (and I would imagine most people) second to last = next to last = penultimate.
......first to last...... ?
Trying to find a word that would of lent meaning to actually the past tense and current and just went with one. Yours lent it to past tense and not current.It should be "haven't received."
Then you say 2 left. So if you use Penultimate you are counting (current issue as that would be "next to last") then you have 1 LEFT not 2 of them as you only have the LAST one left. I guess it seems some people haven't receive a higher education and developed skills in critical thinking.
If you have a hard time with this, getting rid of the contraction helps . ... have not received works.
Oh, and your words got a bit garbled up there, you may want to try, "that would have lent," rather than "of."
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Trying to find a word that would of lent meaning to actually the past tense and current and just went with one. Yours lent it to past tense and not current.It should be "haven't received."
Then you say 2 left. So if you use Penultimate you are counting (current issue as that would be "next to last") then you have 1 LEFT not 2 of them as you only have the LAST one left. I guess it seems some people haven't receive a higher education and developed skills in critical thinking.
Received is the correct word and tense.
And it's "would have lent." Of course, having received a higher education and skills in critical thinking, you would know this.
Ah, but you didn't read Steve's first draft reply before editing...Steve and Heathansson I wanted to say the same things but my own words were too sharp to allow myself to post. You said what I wanted to say but better. Thanks.
*edit* Bizzarro too.
Pipe down, you! No fair peeking. I wasn't done insulting the man. ;)
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
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Trying to find a word that would of lent meaning to actually the past tense and current and just went with one. Yours lent it to past tense and not current.It should be "haven't received."
Then you say 2 left. So if you use Penultimate you are counting (current issue as that would be "next to last") then you have 1 LEFT not 2 of them as you only have the LAST one left. I guess it seems some people haven't receive a higher education and developed skills in critical thinking.
Um. Huh?
You got the tense right with "developed" but missed it with "receive" and the two words are in the same sentence. Oh well. Nevermind.
Anyway.
Penultimate then Ultimate. That's 2 issues.
Pretty clear to me.
I was a little insulted by the cover and the "word choice" that was used so I posted about it.
Bizzarro insulted by words all of the time. Antidisestablishmentarianism and Pi talk about Bizzarro behind his back, then point and laugh when he asks what so funny.
Best Paizo Poster and Bizzarro not alone though . . . Bizzarro hear that the word Spewtem insults Katie Couric too . . .
Why can't words just be nice to people?
OK. So we all know what we're talking about... Dragon #358 Cover
Anyhoo, I believe James has explained it to the OP. And really, why would you advertise the "Ultimate Penultimate" - meaning the greatest second to last - on the cover of #358 if you were talking about the next issue? Perhaps there's a bit of confusion if not for that statement. I'll give you that much, but any confusion should have been cleared up with the content within the mag and a little less than painful brain movement.
BTW, this conversation should be finished, but if the OP would like to continue this argument and murdering the English language as he does so, I'm having quite a bit of fun with the snarky replies.
Oh, but my wife just told me to cut it out, so I guess I'd better exit this thread. :|
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I was a little insulted by the cover and the "word choice" that was used so I posted about it.
Bizzarro insulted by words all of the time. Antidisestablishmentarianism and Pi talk about Bizzarro behind his back, then point and laugh when he asks what so funny.
Best Paizo Poster and Bizzarro not alone though . . . Bizzarro hear that the word Spewtem insults Katie Couric too . . .
Why can't words just be nice to people?
Genuis. Pure genuis. I laughed so hard I woke up my wife in the next room.
Wow.. seems like the fanboies and carebears are out in force tonight.
Wow.. seems like the fanboies and carebears are out in force tonight.
Now that's precious. If by what you just said above you mean, "Dammit! I'm losing this argument big time and they're bashing me faster than I can proofread my replies and check them against Webster.com so I'd better come up with a witty and biting remark so I can back out of this with some semblance of dignity," then, yes, you're right. ;)
Have a great night!
Wow.. seems like the fanboies and carebears are out in force tonight.
Sweetheart, you're not going to win this one, you're setting yourself up for quite a tumble and it's only going to get worse if you continue to deny the fact that, perhaps, you were mistaken. Learn to accept misunderstandings and move on, or life for you is going to be very lonely. These boards are a wonderful place full of kind and good people, you are doing yourself a disservice by alienating yourself. Oh, and I did warn you about calling these boards uneducated, you're just lucky big S hasn't spotted you.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
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Wow.. seems like the fanboies and carebears are out in force tonight.Wha...just because I have PAIZO tattoed on my forehead in gothic gangsta' letters? Sheesh!!!
I guess if I'm a carebear I must have the Paizo golem embroidered on my belly . . . I think you got off lucky with the tat. I'm just not sure where you found a tatoo artist crazy enough to poke a needle into a werewolf's forehead.
This thread cracked up both me and my wife.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Wow.. seems like the fanboies and carebears are out in force tonight.Sweetheart, you're not going to win this one, you're setting yourself up for quite a tumble and it's only going to get worse if you continue to deny the fact that, perhaps, you were mistaken. Learn to accept misunderstandings and move on, or life for you is going to be very lonely. These boards are a wonderful place full of kind and good people, you are doing yourself a disservice by alienating yourself. Oh, and I did warn you about calling these boards uneducated, you're just lucky big S hasn't spotted you.
Where is the dreaded Sebastian?
eh...might be too mean to summon Sebastiastopheles though, he might make the little princess cry.
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Wow.. seems like the fanboies and carebears are out in force tonight.
Not really, we just tend to try to kill the trolls so these boards don't look like WOTC boards. We don't need a bunch of failed debate-club losers mucking up the boards with ignorant language.
Meanwhile, if you had any experience with Paizo's customer service, you would see that Paizo is one of the few remaining companies that takes great care in helping any customers that need assistance. They will bend over backwards to ensure that they do right by there customers.Fanboys? Nope, just people who won't sit by and watch some moron trash talk a great, customer focused, and talented organization.
You were wrong in your initial assertation of the cover's language, many people pointed it out, and more provided facts. Keep posting, it only proves how little knowledge you actually harbor in that hat-rack of yours.
FH
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Wow.. seems like the fanboies and carebears are out in force tonight.Now that's precious. If by what you just said above you mean, "Dammit! I'm losing this argument big time and they're bashing me faster than I can proofread my replies and check them against Webster.com so I'd better come up with a witty and biting remark so I can back out of this with some semblance of dignity," then, yes, you're right. ;)
Have a great night!
This thread is really cracking me up. This reminds me of that time that the OP accused Paizo of attempting to use the name "Pathfinder" to draw in folks who would confuse it with the movie and comic book.
With link goodness: Here
Wow.. seems like the fanboies and carebears are out in force tonight.I came late to this party, but... why is a person who cannot spell "boy" correctly insulted about the use of the word "penultimate"? Shouldn't one learn to use the small words properly before moving on to the bigger ones?
That is the plural spelling of the fanboi.
Plus "penultimate" means next to last. If you check the cover you would see the grievous error. Read the first post about drawing out of the bowl. Then with that follow that up with critical thinking (might be very hard for the likes of you and your posse) and apply that the top of the cover "Ultimate penultimate: 2 issues left"
Would you say you would have another draw from the bowl?
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Wow.. seems like the fanboies and carebears are out in force tonight.I came late to this party, but... why is a person who cannot spell "boy" correctly insulted about the use of the word "penultimate"? Shouldn't one learn to use the small words properly before moving on to the bigger ones?That is the plural spelling of the fanboi.
Plus "penultimate" means next to last. If you check the cover you would see the grievous error. Read the first post about drawing out of the bowl. Then with that follow that up with critical thinking (might be very hard for the likes of you and your posse) and apply that the top of the cover "Ultimate penultimate: 2 issues left"
Would you say you would have another draw from the bowl?
Yes. Penultimate means next to last, meaning that there is one more issue AFTER this one. This issue + one more issue = 2 issues left.
Here, I'll simplify for you. 1+1=2. I am sure you will fight this some more because simple math and english seems SO far from your grasp that I doubt you would know when to shove a foot in your mouth and accept that you are wrong.FH
Wow.. seems like the fanboies and carebears are out in force tonight.Not really, we just tend to try to kill the trolls so these boards don't look like WOTC boards. We don't need a bunch of failed debate-club losers mucking up the boards with ignorant language.
Meanwhile, if you had any experience with Paizo's customer service, you would see that Paizo is one of the few remaining companies that takes great care in helping any customers that need assistance. They will bend over backwards to ensure that they do right by there customers.
Fanboys? Nope, just people who won't sit by and watch some moron trash talk a great, customer focused, and talented organization.You were wrong in your initial assertation of the cover's language, many people pointed it out, and more provided facts. Keep posting, it only proves how little knowledge you actually harbor in that hat-rack of yours.
FH
I'm surprised here... I guess you weren't able to critical think about the drawing out of the bowl example. You have both my pity and sorrow.
Second and more importantly, you said its a "great, customer focused, and talented organization" but has 7% of the Dragon Mag (Issue #358) filled with self-publicity. I wouldn't call that customer focused.