I was wondering how spell strike worked with spells with multiple touch charges.
I used to assume that Frostbite and Chill Touch worked like every other touch spell, only that the spell doesn't end until you've used all your touches. JJ clarified that it actually ends after the first touch lands, and after that, it's no longer a held charge, but something like a special attack that lasts until used up.
This would normally mean that every touch after the first cannot be used with Spellstrike, but we also have a post here, by JB which says you probably can use Spellstrike with attacks after the first, in the same round you cast. This could mean that you can still use Spellstrike with touches beyond that round (When the spell would normally be a held charge).
So the end result is that not only can you deliver the frostbite with each attack you make until it's gone, you can also cast another spell without losing those touches. Cast Frostbite, then Chill Touch, then Shocking Grasp and deliver all three plus weapon damage on your next hit. Or add Elemental Touch to that (before the Shocking Grasp!) and deliver four spells with a touch.
I'm not sure that's intended, but without more clarification on James ruling, it kind of looks that way. I suspect JJ was trying to say that multi-touch spells work more like Produce Flame, they grant a special ability that targets touch AC, and doesn't function like a touch spell after the first hit.
So Assume a level 20 magus with haste, he can attack four times a turn and attack once more and cast with the same attack.
Sadly, Spell Combat is a full round action, not a full attack, so you don't get the extra attack from Haste. I'm not sure this is intended, or if the haste attack is meant to be included by "make all of his attacks".
Well that didn't clear thing up but made them more weird...
If it isn't a "held charge" - does spell strike would spell strike then work with it?
Personal I would just use the 3.5 rules when the rules doesn't cover it:
1) you get a free action to deliever the spell the round you cast it (thats paizo rules).
2) It counts as a held charge as long as you have charges left (3.5 rules)
3) - allowing you to deliever them
a) as a touch spellæ
b) with an unarmed strike or natural weapon
c) if you have the spellstrike class feature - with your weapon.
(paizo)
OR you could take it the best way possible - get a free attack the first round, and deliever it with each attack until you have no more charges left, without counting them as charges - so you could cast other spells.
The last option certainly is the best for the magus - which i don't consider an overpowered class in anyway - so a boost is welcome (but that just me)
And although haste doesn't technically work with spellcombat - ignore the rules it was intended to work with haste - why else would the magus have 3 class features that could grant him haste?
I have no doubt that spell combat is meant to work with the extra attack from haste. At the very least, Jason said that the mechanics of spell combat / spellstrike are "full attack + touch spell + free attack" as one of the ways it works.
Oly for attacks made that same round. From the PRD: "Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.
Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell."
Thus any potential touches you didn't use are lost at the end of the round.
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Arkadwyn, did you just search the forums for every thread on the subject and necro them all just so you could tell people how wrong they are?
You should check out this FAQ, as it contradicts your assertion.
So Assume a level 20 magus with haste, he can attack four times a turn and attack once more and cast with the same attack.Sadly, Spell Combat is a full round action, not a full attack, so you don't get the extra attack from Haste. I'm not sure this is intended, or if the haste attack is meant to be included by "make all of his attacks"
perhaps you should go look at the FAQ on spell combat again. they changed it. you CAN use the extra attack from haste with it now.
Perhaps you should look at the timestamps again. The change allowing haste to work with spell combat happened long after Grick's post.
Perhaps you should look at the timestamps again. The change allowing haste to work with spell combat happened long after Grick's post.
well played....
Can someone clarify this whole situation with the most recent rulings? I thought I knew how things worked, but am now confused.
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Once you cast Frostbite, you get a free melee touch attack to deliver one charge. After that, you may use attacks to deliver melee touch attacks to deliver charges (such as during a full attack). Magus' may use spell strike to use a weapon attack instead of a touch attack to deliver the spell charge.
So essentially, with spell strike, one free weapon attack, and every successful weapon attack there after also discharges one charge of frostbite, untill all the charges are expended.