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here is a list of sources that I compiled from in MG:Underground and Marsh & Aquatic (those are the ones i have on PDF on this hard drive; apparently i don't have the others here for some reason). i thought i had a better list of the sources where just the monsters came from (there were only 15 books or so), but this will have to do for the moment. ;)
Ultimate Monsters Volume I copyright 2003, Mongoose Publishing Ltd
The Kaiser’s Garden, Copyright 2003, Mad Kaiser Games
Minions v3.5 Copyright 2003, Bastion Press, Inc.
Monsters of the Mind, Copyright 2003, Green Ronin Publishing
Denizens of Avadnu Copyright 2003, The Inner Circle.
Creature Collection Revised Copyright 2003, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Creature Collection III: Savage Bestiary Copyright 2003, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
The Penumbra Bestiary Copyright 2003, Trident Inc. d/b/a Atlas Games
Nyambe: African Adventures Copyright 2002, Trident Inc. d/b/a/ Atlas Games.
Wilds Copyright 2003 Alderac Entertainment Group, Inc.
Into the Green Copyright 2003, Bastion Press, Inc.
Tome of Horrors II Copyright 2004, Necromancer Games, Inc.
Liber Bestarius Copyright 2002, Eden Studios, Inc.
Monsters of the Boundless Blue: The Wanderers Guild Guide to Aquatic Organisms, Copyright 2003, Published by Goodman Games.
Jade Dragon and Hungry Ghosts is Copyright 2001, Green Ronin Publishing.
Fringe Fauna Copyright 2004, Khan’s Press.
Into the Blue Copyright 2004, Bastion Press, Inc.
Creature Collection 2: Dark Menagerie Copyright 2001, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Shadowman’s Twisted Treasury: A Collection of Killer Puzzles Copyright MMIII Cloud Kingdom Games, Inc.
A Magical Society: Ecology and Culture, Copyright 2004, Expeditious Retreat Press
Tome of Horrors, Copyright 2002, Necromancer Games, Inc.
Monsters of the Endless Dark: The Wanderers Guild Guide to Subterranean Organisms, Copyright 2002 Jon Pollom and Andy Hoop. Published by Goodman Games
Into the Black, Copyright 2003, Bastion Press, Inc.
Creature Collection Copyright 2000, Clark Peterson
Relics & Rituals Copyright 2001, Clark Peterson
Mithril: City of the Golem Copyright 2001, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
HoIIowfaust: City of Necromancers Copyright 2001, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
The Wise and the Wicked Copyright 2001, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
The Divine and the Defeated Copyright 2001, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Burok Torn: City Under Siege Copyright 2002, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Vigil Watch: Warrens of the Raftnen Copyright 2002, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Secrets and Societies Copyright 2002, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Wilderness & Wasteland Copyright 2002, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Scarred Lands Campaign Setting: Ghelspad Copyright .2002, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Relics & Rituals 2: Lost Lore Copyright 2002, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Serpent in the Fold: Serpent Amphora Cycle, Book I Copyright 2002, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Calastia: Throne of the Black Dragon Copyright 2002, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Scarred Lands Gazetteer: Termana Copyright. 2002, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
The Serpent and the Scepter: Serpent Amphora Cycle, Book IlCopyright 2002, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Hornsaw: Forest of Blood Copyright 2002, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
The Penumbral Pentagon Copyright 2003, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Shelzar: City of Sins Copyright 2003, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
The Serpent Citadel: Serpent Amphora Cycle, Book III Copyright 2003, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Blood Bayou Copyright 2003, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Player’s Guide to Wizards, Bards, and Sorcerers Copyright 2003, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Player’s Guide to Fighters and Barbarians, Copyright2003, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Player’s Guide to Clerics and Druids Copyright 2003, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Player’s Guide to Rangers and Rogues Copyright 2003, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Scarred Lands Campaign Setting: Termana Copyright X’C 5, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Vigil Watch: Secrets of the Asaatthi Copyright 2003, White Wolf Publishing, Inc. The Faithful and the Forsaken Copyright 2003, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
The Complete Guide to Drow, Jeffrey Quinn, Copyright 2002 Joseph Goodman DBA Goodman.
Evil is copyright 2001, Alderac Entertainment Group Inc.
Hammer & Helm: A Guidebook to Dwarves, copyright 2002, Green Ronin Publishing
Dungeons, Copyright 2000, Alderac Entertainment Group
Dragons, Copyright 2001, Alderac Entertainment Group
Undead, Copyright 2001, Alderac Entertainment Group
War, Copyright 2002, Alderac Entertainment Group
Monster, Copyright 2002, Alderac Entertainment Group
Occult Lore Copyright 2002, Trident Inc. d/b/a Atlas Games
Creative Director
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<panic attack>
Ahem.
It's a big list, and there's no way we can afford to pull monsters from all of those books. For Pathfinder, my current favorites are Tome of Horrors I, Book of Fiends, and the Advanced Bestiary. I'm sure more'll be added now and then to that list, especially as our authors find neat critters to include.
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...For Pathfinder, my current favorites are Tome of Horrors I, Book of Fiends, and the Advanced Bestiary. I'm sure more'll be added now and then to that list, especially as our authors find neat critters to include.
Here's to hoping Paizo's use of _ToH1_ and _BoF_ renews enough interest to put these books back in print.
And here I was thinking about getting rid of my copy of ToH. Every time you post that Book of Fiends will be used, I'll be there to say "yessir - great, great book".
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Here's to hoping Paizo's use of _ToH1_ and _BoF_ renews enough interest to put these books back in print.
ToH 1 is still available - as a .pdf only, though. (The revised edition was too thick to be printable at a reasonable price). On the other hand the price is very fair - about 10 $$ for > 200 pages of many old favourites and new critters.
Just half a year ago I purchased Book of Fiends. Is that book out of print by now?
Greetings,
Günther
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<panic attack>
Ahem.
It's a big list, and there's no way we can afford to pull monsters from all of those books. For Pathfinder, my current favorites are Tome of Horrors I, Book of Fiends, and the Advanced Bestiary. I'm sure more'll be added now and then to that list, especially as our authors find neat critters to include.
If you pay a closer look at the listing, you'll notice that many of those books are setting specific (although I really like e.g. the Scarred Lands!)...
I think that your current choice of OGL monster books pretty much forms the crème de la crème of the genre.
Greetings,
Günther
Who put together the Book of Fiends? And is it just that -- a book of demons essentially?
How is the Advanced Bestiary? Just thought I'd ask these questions as they have been on my mind, and this thread has prompted them again.
The book of Feinds is by Green Ronin, initialy there were 2 print produts, Book of Fiends Volume 1: Legions of Hell (about devils) and Book of Fiends Volume 2: Armies of the Abyss (about demons), appearently they also made one about daemons but although i have heard about it I never saw it, and then they bound all 3 together into one large Book of Fiends (which I think may only be avialable as a PDF, I have never seen a print copy).
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For Pathfinder, my current favorites are Tome of Horrors I, Book of Fiends, and the Advanced Bestiary. I'm sure more'll be added now and then to that list, especially as our authors find neat critters to include.
If I understand correctly, new monster entries will be printed in the Pathfinder issue alongside the adventure in which they appear.
If critters are sourced from other OGL publications, stats may be brought up to date with current rules or re-worked to fit the Paizo's campaign setting and then re-printed in the Pathfinder issue alongside the adventure in which they appear.
I am hoping that some of these creatures will gain popularity and re-appear in other adventures down the track, and not simply make cameo appearances. However, I am also guessing that Paizo would like to avoid re-printing the same creature write-up in multiple issues of Pathfinder.
The problem is, how to feature the same non-SRD creature in multiple issues of Pathfinder? Unless the player has a) the issue in which it originally appeared; or b) an OGL product that published this creature, then how can the encounter be run?
As a web developer, a concept I use every day is Accessability - building something to accommodate the widest possible audience.
A simple example is web page fonts. I might want a web page displayed in a fancy Exocet font. However, this likely causes problems if your computer doesn't have the Exocet font installed. So can I know what font you have installed in your computer? Simple answer - I don't.
What I can do, instead of requesting one specific font, is to specify a list of fonts in order of preference. The computer will try each font in the list, until it finds one that it has installed, and then it uses that. The last choice or two in the list should be a generic font that anyone should have access to.
This approach could work well for Pathfinder adventures. Say, for example Pathfinder #3 introduces the Wendigo, Pathfinder #5 introduces the Beserker. Then Pathfinder #7 features a Wendigo Beserker in an adventure, without reprinting either the creature or the class. How does someone new to Pathfinder run the encounter?
Wendigo Beserker1 [ OGL alternative: Advanced Bestiary Templated Gnoll; Core alternative: Gnoll Barbarian2 ]
The exact format is something the Paizo team would refine, but the concept is that someone without previous Pathfinder issues could replace the Wendigo Beserker with either a Gnoll with a template applied from the Advanced Bestiary, or a regular MM Gnoll with a couple of levels of Barbarian.
Suggested substitutes need not be precise, they just need to enable someone to successfully run the encounter. Replacement creatures might retain the same role or theme as the original creature, or maybe a radically different creature is offered as a substitute, because it has a particular special ability to challenge the players with - kind of like how foreign movies aren't translated word-for-word, they just need to get the general meaning across and keep the story moving.
Of course, this same method can be used with any game component - Races, Base/Prestige Classes, Feats, Spells, Religions etc.
<panic attack>
Ahem.
don't worry, it wasn't a request. ;) i was just trying to list all the sources i knew of...
and now that i'm at home with a few free moments and have done my research, let me narrow down that list to the 23 sources that i know we actually pulled monsters from for the Monster Geographica series:
Ultimate Monsters Volume I copyright 2003, Mongoose Publishing Ltd
The Kaiser’s Garden, Copyright 2003, Mad Kaiser Games
Minions v3.5 Copyright 2003, Bastion Press, Inc.
Monsters of the Mind, Copyright 2003, Green Ronin Publishing
Testament, (by Green Ronin - didn't have that in my original list)
Denizens of Avadnu Copyright 2003, The Inner Circle.
Creature Collection Revised Copyright 2003, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Creature Collection III: Savage Bestiary Copyright 2003, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Into the Black, Copyright 2003, Bastion Press, Inc.
The Penumbra Bestiary Copyright 2003, Trident Inc. d/b/a Atlas Games
Nyambe: African Adventures Copyright 2002, Trident Inc. d/b/a/ Atlas Games.
Tome of Horrors, Copyright 2002, Necromancer Games, Inc.
Wilds Copyright 2003 Alderac Entertainment Group, Inc.
Into the Green Copyright 2003, Bastion Press, Inc.
Tome of Horrors II Copyright 2004, Necromancer Games, Inc.
Liber Bestarius Copyright 2002, Eden Studios, Inc.
Monsters of the Endless Dark: The Wanderers Guild Guide to Subterranean Organisms, Copyright 2002 Jon Pollom and Andy Hoop. Published by Goodman Games
Monsters of the Boundless Blue: The Wanderers Guild Guide to Aquatic Organisms, Copyright 2003, Published by Goodman Games.
Jade Dragon and Hungry Ghosts is Copyright 2001, Green Ronin Publishing.
Fringe Fauna Copyright 2004, Khan’s Press.
Into the Blue Copyright 2004, Bastion Press, Inc.
Creature Collection 2: Dark Menagerie Copyright 2001, White Wolf Publishing, Inc.
Shadowman’s Twisted Treasury: A Collection of Killer Puzzles Copyright MMIII Cloud Kingdom Games, Inc.
much more manageable, that is. ;)
or, of course, there is Expeditious Retreat Press' Monster Geographica series itself, which would eliminate much of the need to flip through each of the above sources... ;)
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Who put together the Book of Fiends? And is it just that -- a book of demons essentially?
How is the Advanced Bestiary? Just thought I'd ask these questions as they have been on my mind, and this thread has prompted them again.
Hi there,
I didn't know that another thread would sport a similar discussion.
If you still look for more information: I described both books (at least shortly) here.
Book of Fiends is available in printed form. Authours described in linked thread (Erik Mona et al.). Book describes demons, daemons, and devils, relationships between fractions, and motivations. About 100 new critters included.
Advanced Bestiary: templates, templates, and even more templates! Page count = more than 250 pages.
Also described in above mentioned thread:
Tome of Horrors: 450 pages of old edition monsters converted to 3.5 plus new critters. For more details click link.
...For Pathfinder, my current favorites are Tome of Horrors I, Book of Fiends, and the Advanced Bestiary. I'm sure more'll be added now and then to that list, especially as our authors find neat critters to include.
=> People here seem to have a pretty similar taste of monster books. ;-)
Serious: The above mentioned books plus Book of Templates (Deluxe Edition 3.5) are among the most highly rated OGL monster books - for good reason! (-> compare ratings at enworld.org)
Greetings,
Günther
James, can you PLEASE request that we get the Tome of Horrors I and the Book of Fiends reprinted? I would appreciate having copies of them. I can of course get the PDF of the Revised Tome of Horrors, but I prefer to have a hard bound book instead of a binder with my printouts of the PDF file.
~reads the list that BOZ wrote and then GULPS in panic~ Oh, damn! That is a LOT of books!
I just ordered the Book of Fiends earlier, I have the Tome of Horrors II and III is on the way. I will be picking up the advanced Bestiary soon as well as the book of Tempates. At this rate, I will not ahve enough money to even think about buying a WotC book. ~sighs~ Well, Heathy will be happy!
But I still want a hard copy of the Book of Horrors, James! Get cracking on talking to Necromancer Games about it! ~grins~
Who put together the Book of Fiends? And is it just that -- a book of demons essentially?
How is the Advanced Bestiary? Just thought I'd ask these questions as they have been on my mind, and this thread has prompted them again.
Hi there,
I didn't know that another thread would sport a similar discussion.
If you still look for more information: I described both books (at least shortly) here...Greetings,
Günther
Wow. Thanks.
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I would agree that the Book of Fiends is a fantastic resource that I have made as much use of as any of the MM1-4 fiends. I am not familiar with the Advanced Bestiary, but I'd like to put in a couple nudges for the Creature Collections (from the Scarred Lands setting); there are many excellent beasties, and I'd love to see a Goblin Bear or Blight Wolf used in an adventure!
That all being said, I am also excited at seeing the creativity of the Pathfinder setting bringing new creatures into use. The Slurk is an awesome idea; having iconic mounts is truly the way to go (my home-brew setting has Blight Wolves having similar relationships to orcs as goblins and worgs). I'm sure we're all looking forward to seeing what other new ideas will come along once Pathfinder comes about ...
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Just curious: are any of the creatures printed in the issues of Dragon usable as OGL, or are they Wizards-only? The grey shiver was a really great option (especially when dominating another spellcaster ... that was grand), and I also remember in a recent issue having an urban fey (which would link into the "fey" discussion on another thread).
all "new monsters" that appeared in Dragon (and Dungeon) are the property of Wizards of the Coast.
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I just ordered the Book of Fiends earlier, I have the Tome of Horrors II and III is on the way. I will be picking up the advanced Bestiary soon as well as the book of Tempates. At this rate, I will not ahve enough money to even think about buying a WotC book. ~sighs~ Well, Heathy will be happy!
You don't have to own them all - especially the template books (Advanced Bestiary and Book of Templates) just make sense if you want to tinker with templates.
Anyway, I am glad that some excellent OGL books finally step out of the shadow into the spotlight formerly reserved to WotC books. Even here quite some people scorned everything not officially D&D. These times fortunately seem to be over and it is the quality that matters... [/end of rant :p]
But I still want a hard copy of the Book of Horrors, James! Get cracking on talking to Necromancer Games about it! ~grins~
I have a hard copy of it. :-)
I went to a copy shop, let them print it out and got a nice hard cover binding for it. :-) The price for the pdf, copying, and binding was only slightly higher than your average monster hard cover (which doesn't have 450 pages of content).
Wow. Thanks.
You are welcome. :-)
(...)I am not familiar with the Advanced Bestiary (...)
Imagine a book filled with templates. Applying them means multiplying the number of monsters already usable in your monster books. The book contains the templates plus one OGL monster each the template was applied to.
Btw. you probably wouldn't need to print it out. Applying the templates is most often not done in a second, so you'd need it mostly before your game session.
I'd like to put in a couple nudges for the Creature Collections (from the Scarred Lands setting); there are many excellent beasties, and I'd love to see a Goblin Bear or Blight Wolf used in an adventure!
They weren't mentioned, yet, but when it comes to setting specific OGL monster books, Creature Collection is unbeatable. Just reading the monsters names gives you an idea for new adventures. :-)
The above mentioned Blight Wolves, the Drowned Lady, the Dweller at Crossroads, or the Unhallowed (Faithless Knight, False Lover etc.)... :-)On the other hand: I think just using James' books in his shelf would give material for years to come... ;-)
Greetings,
Günther
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Creative Director
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We'll likely be shying away from books like the Creature Collection and the Monsternomicon; as awesome as those books are, they're a little TOO closely identified with specific campaing settings. By the same reasoning, we rarely, if ever, used monsters from Eberron continuity (such as living spells) in Greyhawk adventures, or monsters from Forgotten Realms continuity (such as banedead) in Eberron.
For Pathfinder, my current favorites are Tome of Horrors I, Book of Fiends, and the Advanced Bestiary. I'm sure more'll be added now and then to that list, especially as our authors find neat critters to include.
Will you reprint those monsters write-ups in the Pathfinder adventures, like you do in Dungeon for non-core monsters? Not all of us have those books.
Thanks,
Greg
i also world dearly love a print copy of tome of Horrors i dislike useing PDF'S but it seems this is the only chorce i have so i dont use it have seen the PDF and would love a print verson of it ..hard to find now days sad
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We'll likely be shying away from books like the Creature Collection and the Monsternomicon;
Understandably.
I just recently bought Monsternomicon. It is really good, too, but too strange for most "plain vanilla fantasy" campaigns, I guess.
i also world dearly love a print copy of tome of Horrors i dislike useing PDF'S but it seems this is the only chorce i have so i dont use it have seen the PDF and would love a print verson of it ..hard to find now days sad
Maybe I can shed some light on this:
Only the 3.0 version of ToH I was ever in print.3.5 was a pdf product right from start. Here is the introduction to the revised edition:
"Since the v3.5 Revised edition of the D&D rules came out I have been struggling with the decision of whether or not to revise the Tome of Horrors. It has been a diffi cult decision. The quality of the book wasn’t what made the decision diffi cult. Tome of Horrors has always been universally regarded as a great book. It has been critically acclaimed by reviewers. Other d20 publishers love it because it is essentially 100% Open Game Content, meaning they can use the monsters from the Tome of Horrors in their products. I have also always personally felt that Tome is one of the few d20 books that truly is a mandatory addition to any DM’s bookshelf. Even Monte Cook raved about it, and I think Monte is dead on: If a role playing game is a gun, then a monster book is the ammunition. If that’s the case, then Tome of Horrors is a case of hollow point, explosive shells.
The problem was the book itself.
The book was just too big to reprint without cutting content or substantially raising the price, or both. There was no way we were going to cut down on the number of monsters. If people buy a revised version of a book, I think they rightfully expect all the monsters from the original to be revised. And it just didn’t seem right to charge a higher price for a revision than for the original book. So because we refused to cut the size of the book and because we refused to raise the price of the book, there was no book. And that is where I thought the decision would end. But luckily it didn’t.
That’s where DriveThruRPG.com came in…
I think we have found the right format and the right method of getting the revision to the fans. Scott Greene, our monster guru, has been working since the revisions came out to update the Tome monsters.
And once the stars aligned and we hit on the PDF solution, we gave the green light to our main man Mike Chaney to do a totally new layout of the book designed for maximum usefulness as a PDF. Monsters were laid out as much as possible with a “1 page to a monster” design, something that is nearly impossible in a print product. New art was incorporated. Errata was included. All to bring the classic monsters found in the Tome of Horrors up to date with the current edition of the rules.
So thanks to the persistence of the fans, and thanks to DriveThruRPG.com, it is now my great pleasure to present to you the Tome of Horrors Revised — a case of revised hollow point, explosive shells.
I hope you enjoy fi ring off these bad boys as much as I do.
--Clark Peterson
Necromancer Games"
... and as I mentioned above: It is not impossible to get a printed bound book from a pdf... ;-)
Greetings,
Günther
while it would be cool to see a 3.5 ToH in print (as big as that fat sucker would be), i don't expect it to happen - and the PDF is certainly better than nothing. :)
Since this thread is back from the dead anyways ...
while it would be cool to see a 3.5 ToH in print (as big as that fat sucker would be), i don't expect it to happen - and the PDF is certainly better than nothing. :)
Well, clearly we will soon have ToH as a Pathfinder book. So now I'm just hoping that Advanced Bestiary gets updated too ...